Alcoholism

john_x

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Originally posted by ER!C L!VE
Are you speaking from your own personal experience or by what the media has told you?

I speak from experience when I talk about anti-depressants. They are very misunderstood by the general public. They don't get you 'high'. They just stop the depressed feelings and negative thoughts going through a depressed persons mind. They allow the person to focus on what's important instead of how ****ty they think their lives are.

I thought like you once, until I tried an anti-depressant and went from living on the streets to graduating from college and becoming a homeowner. It wasn't from 'positive thinking' and 'owning up'. It was because the drugs allowed me to focus and not feel shytty all the fvcking time.
100% from personal experance.
Anti-depressant can be very help full yea, but your case is a little diffent from this guy's.
There is no need to go on them just because you have stoped drinking(in case's a lot worse than this, where there is a high dependancy,maybe yea but its still not the answer, its a short term solution )

To change your brain chemistry in that way, just to not feel down becuase youve been drinking heavily for some time is silly,and it wont solve the problem, as you cant stay on them for ever,
if you are depressed, sort it out by facing it.
if you didt start drinkng because you where depressed, just fight out the depression, it will pass and get on with it

some people are ill, thru no fault of there own,and NEED help
others just go off the rails a bit, and go on all these drugs and end up prolonging and making there problems worse.
 

BLUEox117

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Its not very hard to not do stuff, its not like ths "disease" controls your arms and hands to grasp the bottle without your wanting to.
 

ER!C L!VE

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Well CLOONEY,

I've been exactly where you are. You can take the advice of the people who have no idea what it's like to be in our shoes, or you can listen to me and give my suggestions a shot.

What's the worst case scenario if you try what I suggest? it doesn't work? ok fine.

What the best case scenario if you try what I suggest? You get your life back.
 

john_x

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Originally posted by ER!C L!VE
Well CLOONEY,

I've been exactly where you are. You can take the advice of the people who have no idea what it's like to be in our shoes, or you can listen to me and give my suggestions a shot.

What's the worst case scenario if you try what I suggest? it doesn't work? ok fine.

What the best case scenario if you try what I suggest? You get your life back.
you clearly have no idea what anti depressaints do to somone who does not need them, he is depressed BECAUSE of drink, you dont replace onedrug with with another.
you deal with the depression induced by the drug,and in this case its not even that bad.
BUT hay lets get oin the mind changing drugs!! what the hell i mean why not?
What's the worst case scenario=sertonin syndrome
you think you feel bad now, give that a go:D
 

Deep Dish

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john_x:
He is depressed BECAUSE of drink[ing].
Alcoholics very often—very often— come from shattered, broken, traumatic, dysfunctional childhoods. Alcoholism and bad childhoods are so much like twins that it’s kinda hard to tell which one causes the other. It’s a clusterf*ck. It’s as if people born into families with history of alcoholism, thereby having a 50/50 chance of inheriting the alcoholism gene, accidentally trigger their alcoholism when coping with the pains of the dysfunction or trauma which occurs in their life.
You don’t replace one drug with another.
That is not necessarily true. Doctors administer methadone to heroin addicts. Methadone stabilizes patients by making it physiologically impossible for them to get high off of heroin and methadone itself does not get them high, either. Methadone itself is highly addictive and patients do have a tendency to get addicted to that but the point is that without methadone heroin addicts stand no chance of recovery.
 

john_x

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Originally posted by Deep Dish
That is not necessarily true. Doctors prescribe methadone to heroin addicts. Methadone stabilizes patients by making it physiologically impossible for them to get high off of heroin and methadone itself does not get them high, either. Methadone itself is highly addictive and patients do have a tendency to get addicted to that but the point is that without methadone heroin addicts stand no chance of recovery.
yes but you cant compare heroin addiction to a guy drinking to much on the weekends and realising he has to stop due to his actions and possible future if he carrys on, he is not addicted to booze.
heroins users HAVE to use methadone,its such a diffent thing.
 

ER!C L!VE

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John_x,

What are your qualifications to make these types of statements? Most if not all alcoholics/addicts use because they are depressed. It's self-medication. To deter someone from attempting to fix a problem using medication is grossly negligent. He should try every avenue possible to fix his problem!!
 
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john_x

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Originally posted by ER!C L!VE
John_x,

What are your qualifications to make these types of statements? Most if not all alcoholics/addicts use because they are depressed. It's self-medication. To deter someone from attempting to fix a problem using medication is grossly negligent. He should try every avenue possible to fix his problem!!
Far a start coming on a site, and suggesting mind changing medication to some one you have never even seen and all this from just reading one post is grossly negligent!

SHURE you may have needed them,they got you on your feet, but your comparing your situation to his,you where living on the streets and where well and truley at rock bottom+ addicted to drink.

BUT he is not homeless, and he is not fully addicted to drink,there for its not the same as your situation was, he is in the early stages of it addiction, and this comment alone takes the need for medication away

(as I know I have very very strong willpower and can do pretty much anything I put my mind too.)

you did not have stronge will power and there for could not just stop and sort your life out with will alone
as displayed here:
(It wasn't from 'positive thinking' and 'owning up'. It was because the drugs allowed me to focus and not feel shytty all the fvcking time.)

(He should try every avenue possible to fix his problem!! )

COULDT AGREE MORE,hay heres the first step in doing that!!

(Simple fact is, I have a problem drinking, cannot stop once I start, and therefore need to stop once and for all.)

dont start! combined with your will power,, as long as you dont drink, your problem is over

medication is the last step, not the first, as for qualifications to make these types of statements ive been there done that, and taken the time to do a lot of research.

in this case medication is not needed,end of
 

john_x

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Originally posted by john_x
you did not have stronge will power and there for could not just stop and sort your life out with will alone
as displayed here:
(It wasn't from 'positive thinking' and 'owning up'. It was because the drugs allowed me to focus and not feel shytty all the fvcking time.)
And that was not aimed at you in anyway to be offensive,, in the situation you where in, every one would be the same, im just trying to point out the diffences between the situations.

there are two cause's of depression.
one being an unbalance of chemicals in the brain, causing the person to become very depressed etc, they have no control over that! with all the will power int he world they could not over come it alone, becuase its an unbalance within the brain!

the second cause is when the person is not doing what they should be doing in there life,and its there higher self telling the person there is somthing wronge.
and this is so often ignored and straight on the medication they go,, either to never solve/overcome the problem, or move in the direction they where meant to, or to come off the medication and go directly back into the state.

if depression is caused by the second,medication will solve the depression (for a while) but not the problem
 

ER!C L!VE

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You're right man, he should just 'own up' to his problem and quit cold turkey. Screw anti-depressants, screw AA -- it's as simple as that....A real DJ would just quit. :cheer: :rolleyes:
 

gotmygameback

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First up:

Well done for admitting to this stuff in public.

Alcohol can destroy lives and you have recognised that you may have started down that path.

The most worrying thing to me is the fact you keep drinking till you pass out / crash the car etc.

Cold Turkey will work if you trust in your willpower but you will need to find something to take your mind off this when you go out to licensed bars/clubs.

And if you break you are likely to fall right back into this pattern of behaviour.

Alternatives to the AA route that I have implemented and have helped me break the pattern:

1) NEVER drink before 7 pm.

2) First drink - ALWAYS fruit juice. I have expanded this now so first drink in each venue is always fruit juice. (makes a real difference on a bar crawl)

3) Do you drink liquor? If so give it up. It doesnt taste that nice really and you get drunk much faster. Drink only beer, maybe wine with meals, and drink weaker beer if it is available. I find now that if i drink weak beer ALL night I will feel sick + bloated (not vomit) before i get drunk.

4) Tell all your friends that you drink with your new rules. Make them promise to help you keep them - if they are true friends they will.

The most significant of the above to me was no.3 - I have drunk no liquor for nearly 4 years now and i have not got into a fight or done anything totally dumb once in that time. On my Birthday last year i was getting bought shots all night - I managed to resist and every time just said 'NO -thank you but i don't drink liquor' - eventually people started to comment about how they respect me for doing that - now that was a buzz.

Seriously man , good luck in finding your solution, If you focus on finding it you will, you have taken an important first step with this post.
 

john_x

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Originally posted by ER!C L!VE
You're right man, he should just 'own up' to his problem and quit cold turkey. Screw anti-depressants, screw AA -- it's as simple as that....A real DJ would just quit. :cheer: :rolleyes:
you are a ****ing idiot.. ill say it once again for you.
your comparing your case to his, and assuming because medication worked for you, itl be the same for every one.

but hay i got news for you,he's not a homeless tramp living on the street.. and he is not a full on addict.
never once said screw aa meetings,but yea screw anti depressaints, its clear you have no ****ing idea what your on about,
as for a real dj would just quit, why yes he would, using what ever help he needs,,well yes again he would,, is it a shame full thing to go on anti depressaints? no its not
IS IT NEEDED IN THIS CASE? NO ITS NOT

get it yet?

am i got to fast for you?slow down a bit yea?///////
 

Deep Dish

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When we go out socially, we see many “fake” alcoholics, those people who say “I’m getting so wasted tonight!.” The marker of a true alcoholic are those people who start off saying they shouldn’t drink, but then figure “just one” won’t hurt, and by the end of the night they say “Bring it on!” after their sixth drink.
John_x:
you cant compare heroin addiction to a guy drinking to much on the weekends and realising he has to stop due to his actions and possible future if he carrys on, he is not addicted to booze.
Firstly, Clooney fits the clinical definition of addiction. He drinks heavily every weekend, he cannot stop once he starts, despite the negative consequences it’s incurring to his life, of which he has a substantial history. The only outstanding factor which remains unknown is if he has a family history of alcoholism. As of this writing, he has not replied yet but when he does I will not be surprised by the answer.

Secondly, the only time people change their behavior towards a certain activity is when they realize that if they continue doing what they are doing they are going to die—in Clooney’s own words, he is a walking time bomb. In such a way, a drug addict and an alcoholic have that in common. Furthermore, alcoholics cannot stop drinking without intervention much as how a heroin addict cannot stop plugging in the needle without intervention. There is no such thing as a “recovered” alcoholic but only recovering alcoholic.

Thirdly, the only difference between alcoholism and drug addiction is choice of drug. I would support the medical community to eliminate the misleading term “alcoholism” and stick it under the umbrella term “drug addiction.” Granted, different drugs are not the same in terms of effects and treatment strategies, and while it is true that alcohol and heroin are not at the same, both are treated with medication during the detoxification process.

Alcoholics are given disulfiram. The effects of disulfiram are such that a patient becomes grossly sick about ten minutes after consuming the slightest amounts of alcohol. The effects of disulfiram include “flushing of the face, headache, nausea, vomiting, chest pain, weakness, blurred vision, mental confusion, sweating, choking, breathing difficulty, and anxiety.” In fact, it was recently found that disulfiram is effective in the treatment of cocaine addiction. So yes, doctors do replace with one with another.

Fourthly, the lives of alcoholics are a clusterf*ck of deep emotional issues. Again, very often they come from shattered, broken, traumatic, dysfunctional childhoods. They started drinking to ease their pain, even if they did not realize so, and somewhere along the way they drank too much and triggered their pre-disposition towards alcoholism. Thereby, a proper treatment includes confronting those deep emotional problems which may necessitate taking anti-depressants.
in this case medication is not needed,end of
I am not a doctor, and neither are you, so leave that question to the board certified addiction medicine specialists.
Gotmygameback:
Alternatives to the AA route that I have implemented and have helped me break the pattern:
But do you have a family history of alcoholism? I grant that list might be benefitial towards normal people but it would be ineffective for an alcoholic. In terms of what type of drinks to drink, the only solution for an recovering alcoholic is to never drink any alcohol. One drink turns into two, two turns into three, three turns into eight...
 

john_x

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Originally posted by Deep Dish
In terms of what type of drinks to drink, the only solution for an recovering alcoholic is to never drink any alcohol. One drink turns into two, two turns into three, three turns into eight...
Simple,, so in this case of LIGHT addiction, he can stop before he reaches the stages where he would need some type of medication to deal with his problem.
At this stage will power is enough, yea it will be hard, so's life
learn from it.
 

ER!C L!VE

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Originally posted by Deep Dish

Firstly, Clooney fits the clinical definition of addiction. He drinks heavily every weekend, he cannot stop once he starts, despite the negative consequences it’s incurring to his life, of which he has a substantial history.

Furthermore, alcoholics cannot stop drinking without intervention

They started drinking to ease their pain, even if they did not realize so, and somewhere along the way they drank too much and triggered their pre-disposition towards alcoholism. Thereby, a proper treatment includes confronting those deep emotional problems which may necessitate taking anti-depressants.
You seem like the only one besides me who understands this guys issue.

Originally posted by John_x
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
in this case medication is not needed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deep Dish's awesome response to John_x's assumption:

Originally posted by Deep Dish
I am not a doctor, and neither are you, so leave that question to the board certified addiction medicine specialists.
Who the fvck does John_x think he is telling CLOONEY that medication is NOT needed in his situation -- which John_x clearly doesn't understand? John_x is convinced CLOONEY has a LIGHT drinking problem. How on earth would you know that, John_x?

Originally posted by Deep Dish
the only solution for an recovering alcoholic is to never drink any alcohol. One drink turns into two, two turns into three, three turns into eight...
Yep, yep, yep... To those who have never experienced alcoholism or the inability to stop drinking (as CLOONEY has self admitted), they will never fully understand.


Oh, and John_x, Yes, I was at rock bottom, but a person doesn't need to hit rock bottom in order to figure out that he/she has a problem. Geez. You do not need to hit ABSOLUTE rock bottom. You CAN stop yourself before it gets that bad - and what is being suggested can help him.

John_x, your advice could lead CLOONEY to rock bottom.

Great post Deep Dish. :cheer:
 

john_x

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Originally posted by ER!C L!VE
You seem like the only one besides me who understands this guys issue.



Who the fvck does he think he is telling this guy medication is NOT needed?



Yep, yep, yep... To those who have never experienced alcoholism or the inability to stop drinking (as CLOONEY has self admitted), they will never fully understand.

Great post Deep Dish. :cheer:
(Who the fvck does he think he is telling this guy medication is NOT needed)

dont like getting nasty but who the **** are you to recomend medication!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

even in the case of not being able to stop drinking, anti depressainst would not help one bit, infact the high they would produce would make the person want to drink more.

this younge man has come on the site,already decided he is going to stop,and wanted some advice,, youve put him in the direction of mind changing drugs,, yea nice one!
all he needs to do is stop drinking, or he could run off and go on the drugs,to get him thru it,and end up in a lot worse state than he started in.

or he could stop,realise that the situation he is in ,he produced him self,learn from it, get thru the depression,learn to go out without drink and become a much stronger person than he was before all of this!!! its called the learning curve of life.facing up to it

you recommend these drugs like headach tablets, you have no ****ing idea, in any chase they wouldt stop the person from drinking,
they would be used to help them to rebuild there life .this guy does not need to rebuild his life,he's not sleeping in a box

(To those who have never experienced alcoholism )

and you know how?>

as for anti depressaints are harmless,wait til the day u stop taking them kid:D
 

john_x

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Originally posted by ER!C L!VE

John_x, your advice could lead CLOONEY to rock bottom.

Great post Deep Dish. :cheer:
are u ****ing insane? stay stronge, find your own way thru the problem,, yes im shure that will make him hit rock bottom, we int all weak *****es bro



(Who the fvck does John_x think he is telling CLOONEY that medication is NOT needed in his situation -- which John_x clearly doesn't understand? John_x is convinced CLOONEY has a LIGHT drinking problem. How on earth would you know that, John_x?)

and as for that, you dont know who i am, what ive been thru, or what i know, you *think* you know it all. and give dangous advice which can lead to many more problems, i find it hard to belive you are real
 

ER!C L!VE

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Message to CLOONEY

CLOONEY,

Seek a professional doctor's opinion, attend a few AA meetings, and stay positive. Don't drink tonight.

I have been there, done that and am a success story. Stick with the winners. Listen to the advice of the people who have overcome the obsticals that you currently face and do the best you can to follow in their footsteps.

This is my final post on the topic.

Best Wishes,

Eric
 

john_x

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Re: Message to CLOONEY

Originally posted by ER!C L!VE
CLOONEY,

Seek a professional doctor's opinion, attend a few AA meetings, and stay positive. Don't drink tonight.

I have been there, done that and am a success story. Stick with the winners. Listen to people who have overcome the obsticals that you currently face and do the best you can.

This is my final post on the topic.

Best Wishes,

Eric
my final post to!
be a man, your going thru this for a reason,battle it out, come out the other side so much stronger!!!and with more life experance.
if you go on anti depressaints right away you are not going to learn anything from this.if you dont know what i mean, you will when you come out the other side

find the cause of your drinking problem,work thru it,
if the only cause is you like to party to hard,then learn how to party harder without it,

see a doctor, if you do become depressed try 5-HTP,, which is already within you
amino acids(from foods) are converted into 5-htp,which is then directly converted into sertonin by the brain,, supplimenting it has no negative side effects!

drinking also lowers the bodys sertonin levels,there for makes you depressed,,that will change ON ITS OWN when you stop and give your body time to recover.

good luck
 

CLOONEY

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Man, so many replies, which is great! I went away to the beach for a couple of days and wasnt expecting so many, and such great responses! A real eye opener! I can really see both points of view from John_X and Eric, Deep Dish as usual, always has a very educated point of view. Thanks guys. Also, thanks to the rest of you, Sazuki etc.

No, I didnt drink down the coast. haha.

I will try to go through and answer some questions and give my own opinions, if I miss anything, please just reply and ask again.

Ok, so yes, I have a history of alcoholism in my family. It runs wild, one of my uncles always says "if they bred alcoholics like they do racehorses, you and your brother would be champions"! A very fair statement, and one of which is very true!

I have looked up and researched a lot of information on a lot of things to do with alcoholism, and have very firm knowledge on depression medication. (my dad suffered from severe depression, one of his sisters suffers it too). My dad committed suicide last year, and the depression medication didnt do ANYTHING to combat his illness. If anything, it did make him worse. He got addicted (found a doctor who had severe memory loss as she underwent brain surgery), who gave in and gave him too many drugs. He got severely addicted and ended up in detox! Following this, was when he took his own life.

I do think depression medication could do good for many people, however, I cant really say I have been depressed as such. I have definately gone through some rough times in my life, where I have been very sad, but always get over it in time. Never, have I been stuck in a rut that continued for a long time. Depression is not on my mums side of the family whatsoever, so hopefully I have inherited those genes.

As for a broken home etc. I would say I had a great great childhood, infact one of the best I could hope for up until I was a teenager. My parents both then got ill (my dad was a professional football player and did some serious spinal damage), hence the reason he was on a lot of pain releif medication and anti depressants! My mum went downhill due to stress. My family life was not great after that, but I would still say it was stable until I was about 20, in that time, my dad became very depressed and I was the one who really had to deal with it. Some nights I would even come home from work (I worked in a sports centre after my dayjob, or after university), and I could hear him screaming out crying from his bedroom even from my driveway (of which was about 30 metres away from the bedroom). So yeah, it was a very bad period.

I however, have always seemed to had a rational head. My parents always wonder where I got my willpower and determination from, as it has not been a big trait of the family. I got rid of all my friends at around age 17 who were into drugs, and just had no future and made new friends. These friends are the most loyal, motivated group of guys, and are a very big help to me in my life! We all help eachother enormously. I received great grades at university, I am currently in the process of receiving my second degree. I have travelled the world, have sports I love, and a great girlfriend (for the moment). A very stable life. I have of late, probably the past 6 months, been cutting down the amount of time I go out and the times I drink. Probably drinking only every 1-2 weeks now, instead of every single week.

I think the main problem with me is drinking had become a way of life, it was just what I did. It was what I had become accustomed too on weekends. Further, as I have read, when I went a couple of weeks without drinking, I would feel very anxious, like I needed a drink to calm me down. Exercise would not work, in this way, it was my body being addicted as it was stuck in a constant cycle and used to being fed with alcohol once a week. This is apparently one of the main things I will notice on my path to not drinking.

My mum attends AA, 12 step meetings to gain a better understanding of her father (an alcoholic), however, she just rambled her generitc meeting crap off, and seems to bring home a lot of "bums" who have nothing better to do than to hang out with eachother, as none of them work have a good circle of friends or anything else to do worthwhile in their lives. I do dispise this, and also do not like the "religous" nonsense that goes along with it. I definately am religous, just dont like to be bible bashed, as I have had my family doing it to me my entire life.

I am going to Sydney tomorrow with mates for a few days, just to relax, go to the beach and have a break. A couple of them will drink heavily, of which will be good for me to test myself in the beggining. I am going to definately take the first obvious step, and try and work through this myself. I have tried and said many other times I will quit, but of course never continued with it. But none have been more serious than this time. Not to mention, for the past few months, I have actually not even enjoyed myself drinking, hence another reason why I have been going out less and less.

If I do lapse, and start drinking again, I will definately seek help. Until then, I will do what I always do and try fight it out myself. I do have stable foundations in my life, so that is not a problem. Further, if I do suffer prolonged depression from the withdrawal, I will see a doctor for medication and/or advice.

That being said, I definately suffer from alcoholism, practically all my cousins do, an uncle does, my brother does, both my gradads do. Some are alcoholics (drink every day), others simply cause a rampage when they drink and dont remember a thing. Each, just as dangerous and damaging to your life as the other.

Hope this kind of makes sense. Hopefully some other guys can read this also and realise they have a problem and maybe work through it with me. If so, I will keep a constant log of my progress, how I feel, the times I have found it most hard to resist etc and maybe have someone else to go through it with. Otherwise, I will just use my friends and family for that! My mum is very supportive of me seeing someone as is my grandma, as they have seen it throughout their lives and know what it does to the males of our family.

Thanks guys, please keep the replies coming if you have anything to add.

Cheers.
 
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