After you realize how much work and sacrifice it takes to get hot girls, you wouldn't want to.

[Roober]

I'm telling men to be unapologetic in their masculinity, be confident in their sex appeal, practice being comfortable interacting with women and I'm using examples to demonstrate what that behavior looks like.

Guys here sometimes say act like James Bond too. He's fictional. I mean if you want to be a ball player you go to a pro's workshop right? You don't consult the Pop Warner league.

That's all. The right attitude and the way a man carries himself is so much of the battle.

Have I personally dated very good looking men? Yes. Do I understand the player type? Yes.

My whole point was that the man I married was not one of the best looking if you took a cross section of men I dated...nor was he the most wealthy or successful out of the group I dated...but he is the man I picked...and I was a woman men wanted.

Sex appeal gave my ex an edge over better looking more successful men.

The man I dated (and who I left) before my ex husband was a professional model (with terrible insecurities) and car dealer. The model was gorgeous, always swimming in hot girls vying for his attention.

The attention from the other women never bugged me, that was a given, but his insecurities and neuroses were a turn off. My ex was nice looking but not professional model good looking...but he was secure in himself and great to be around. I remember after I got engaged model guy came in the club and was going on about my ring...he asked was I seriously getting married and went on about it.

I heard along the way from mutual acquaintances later on that he was bummed he missed the boat with me. He was a cool guy too, smart, ambitious. Insecurity was his undoing. It led to the player lifestyle (and eventually led to his death).

I'm just encouraging men to embrace their desires and up their comfort level around women and improve their sex appeal in that way.

To say looks are everything is inaccurate. That is a cop out.

I've had dates with men who were or are great looking but not good with women as far as I was concerned.

I can think of guys who were too timid, many who were too sexually aggressive too fast, some who were horrible at kissing (that's a different topic but an immediate NEXT!) several who were square/awkward & several who were indecisive, several who came across as too boring/nothing in common.

So much of this is subjective as you can see but upping comfort level interacting with women as well as sex appeal will help men overcome many of the turn offs I noted above through better calibration with women.

You can't win if you don't try. You can't improve if you don't try.

To categorically throw in the towel as per the OPs attitude is self defeating.

I have always wondered how you know if you are a good kisser or not? I would like to think I am good, but who knows...

 

[BeExcellent]

I have always wondered how you know if you are a good kisser or not? I would like to think I am good, but who knows...

About to head out on a business trip. If somebody makes a thread I'll contribute...or eventually I will start a thread. Kissing well is important and it can say all the right things or all the wrong things to a woman about you. Don't want to sidetrack this thread.

 

[Glassguy]

I read the OP's original post and a few in between.

I am not sure why you would treat a 10 or a 7 any different. Frame shouldnt change.

Doing anything differently is just silly.

"working hard for a chick" is merely chasing. That will put you on the chick's orbiter list, nothing more.

Want to stand out? Have a strong frame, show interest, dont chase.

 

[TheGambino]

I will reach that ''top 1%'' your talking about. Don't believe me just watch.

 

[zekko]

He was a cool guy too, smart, ambitious. Insecurity was his undoing. It led to the player lifestyle (and eventually led to his death).

An interesting statement. You're saying insecurity led him to the player lifestyle. I'm sure a lot of insecure guys come here and are converted into being players. I've always thought there was a lot of insecurity inherent in the pickup community - all that stuff about how you have to spin plates because you can't trust your own emotions unless you have lots of chicks dating you. How they tell you not to do anything to please women, but then tell you to transform your entire personality into something else so you can get women. Anyway.

If he really had so many women vying for his attention, one wonders what the source of his insecurity was? I could see how he might be insecure as a person, but he shouldn't be sexually insecure with all those women chasing him.

Sounds like your message is "Be confident, be good looking - and while you're at it, make sure you have hordes of women who adore you also". Lol, problem solved.

 

[resilient]

About to head out on a business trip. If somebody makes a thread I'll contribute...or eventually I will start a thread. Kissing well is important and it can say all the right things or all the wrong things to a woman about you. Don't want to sidetrack this thread.

I look forward to reading this thread. I forget where I read once, yet someone said you can tell a lot about where the relationship will go based on that first kiss. Is it slow, fast, sloppy, smooth, what's the body language of both people (i.e. close proximity, big gap between bodies, etc.), where are the hands placed during this action?

Who's more into it? The man or the woman? Is it mutually enjoyed?

So much to say from a powerful interaction as the complex behavior requires,

"significant muscular coordination involving a total of 34 facial muscles and 112 postural muscles" (Wikipedia.org). ​

You can guarantee the plate is wondering if the date is worth escalating sexually to the bedroom.

 

[bigneil]

An interesting statement. You're saying insecurity led him to the player lifestyle. I'm sure a lot of insecure guys come here and are converted into being players. I've always thought there was a lot of insecurity inherent in the pickup community - all that stuff about how you have to spin plates because you can't trust your own emotions unless you have lots of chicks dating you. How they tell you not to do anything to please women, but then tell you to transform your entire personality into something else so you can get women. Anyway.

If he really had so many women vying for his attention, one wonders what the source of his insecurity was? I could see how he might be insecure as a person, but he shouldn't be sexually insecure with all those women chasing him.

Sounds like your message is "Be confident, be good looking - and while you're at it, make sure you have hordes of women who adore you also". Lol, problem solved.

I appreciate Be Excellent trying to explain things. I'm certain she is sincere, but she is probably realizing the limitations of her female logic. I've found that if I ask 5 girls to interpret a text message from another girl, I'll get five completely different answers:

Actual Example (Interpretation by women one single text):

1) Girl 1: "She isn't someone I would trust anymore".
2) Girl 2: "She is madly in love with you and has been all along"
3) Girl 3: "She just thinks you're her sugar daddy"
4) Girl 4: "She is afraid of the feelings she has for you"
5) Girl 5: "Why would you want to go out with a girl who says she 'really likes you a lot but... is unemotional'?"

 

[fastlife]

If he really had so many women vying for his attention, one wonders what the source of his insecurity was? I could see how he might be insecure as a person, but he shouldn't be sexually insecure with all those women chasing him.

It's a different type of insecurity. When you're exceptionally good looking, one you're inundated with external validation & never really have to learn to validate yourself. The baseline is set super high. Secondly, there's a ton of pressure to perform & not lose that validation: when a girl sees a really good looking guy she expects him to behave a certain way, to be smooth, to be socially savvy, to be good in bed. Thirdly, the closer you get to perfection, the more glaring the flaws--and since so much validation's on the line--good looking people are often hyper aware of how their hair is, if their clothes look nice; they might hate that their ears are a little too big and they hope no one notices. Basically that translates to being in your head and not your body, which is the opposite of Masculine Sexual Confidence.

 

[zekko]

It's a different type of insecurity. When you're exceptionally good looking, one you're inundated with external validation & never really have to learn to validate yourself.

Okay. So we're told that this guy was insecure. But we're also told that he was swimming in women who were vying for his attention. This is just the kind of thing that makes me doubt the whole claim about confidence being so attractive. If insecurity is such a repellent to women, how is it that this guy had so many women vying for his attention?

Maybe BeExcellent means that his insecurity kept him from keeping the attention of these women. But a lot of pickup community/manosphere types aren't interested in keeping women around anyway, they just want to add them to their notch count. So was his insecurity really held against him?

 

[BeExcellent]

@zekko it's really what @fastlife said. He was insecure because he didn't have a college degree although he was very smart and ambitious and became very successful. He thought people didn't respect him because he didn't have a degree. He was insecure about his body type (very slim as many models are) even though he was 6'4" and the archetype of the tall dark and handsome. He had a chiseled face. His grandfather was a famous Hollywood actor from the midcentury period. He did fragrance print ads, did runway in Paris and Milan. Did the Harold's catalogue. He had an impressive portfolio. Fragrance ads are the BIG deal in print modeling. But as he got older he started losing the crown out of his thick dark hair. The agencies quit calling.

Most people have no idea how industries such as entertainment chew people up and spit them out. It is brutal.

He also had a number of used car lots and became a millionaire floor planning other car dealers and horse trading.

He felt like an object rather than a human being. So he appreciated people who could see past his handsome face and value the person who lived in there. This happens to beautiful people. Everybody wants something off you. Everybody wants to up their social value by being seen with you, by dating you, by befriending you. Add to that having money. It gets very very tough to discern between people who really like you and people who just want to up their value by associating with you either for your looks or your money or both. It can be extremely isolating. Few few people give a sh1t about the real you.

He and I had a lot in common in that we both had business minds. My private money guy & mentor had helped him get a leg up in the car business. When we met he was on the brink of losing his house to foreclosure. He never disclosed this to me (I found out later) from a mutual friend. He saw me as very accomplished and he didn't want to tarnish my impression of him. It broke my heart much later when I heard he had kept this from me because he was embarrassed. It explained the 6am to 1am hours, it explained the stress levels, the hustling every weekend, it explained the deals he was doing at 10pm after the dinner I cooked had gotten cold. I thought he was a complete workaholic and that he didn't have any time for me. Had I known the real issue it would have been altogether different but he was too afraid to tell me the truth. I had NO idea he cared for me. So I left him. I had NO idea. But I really liked HIM, not so-and-so the model.

He became very successful but got into the fast life in all it's aspects. Exotic travel, women (who were shallow sorts wanting money and the status of hanging out with him), drugs, exotic cars. He died one night after partying of an overdose. I heard about it months after the fact from mutual acquaintances. It was very sad. He was such a neat person but nobody saw that past his blinding good looks and his wealth.

He was a beautiful fragile person. He hid it from everybody.

 

[bigneil]

@zekkoHe became very successful but got into the fast life in all it's aspects. Exotic travel, women (who were shallow sorts wanting money and the status of hanging out with him), drugs, exotic cars. He died one night after partying of an overdose. I heard about it months after the fact from mutual acquaintances. It was very sad. He was such a neat person but nobody saw that past his blinding good looks and his wealth.
He was a beautiful fragile person. He hid it from everybody.

It sounds like he became insecure as he lost his ability to stay on top. Very sorry to hear that he lost his life. I can tell you loved him. I've only dated one girl who died (when I was 19 and she was 18) and it's the most depressing thing. Hang in there.

 

[zekko]

I thought he was a complete workaholic and that he didn't have any time for me.

Doesn't sound like his insecurity kept you from being attracted to him however, except indirectly.

 

[BeExcellent]

Doesn't sound like his insecurity kept you from being attracted to him however, except indirectly.

He hid his insecurity. He had moxy and panache as his initial presentation. He was gregarious and charming; warm. I appealed to him because I didn't fawn all over him like other women. But he was a wonderful person with insecurities I was surprised to discover as I got to know him.

He died years ago. I suppose I was starting to fall for him but I didn't understand all the things whirling around in is life and I didn't want a lopsided relationship. So I pulled the plug and a few months later was dating the man I would marry.

 

[zekko]

Sounds like myself when I was younger - not the supermodel part lol. But I was insecure about several things, and I learned that women hated insecurity. So I acted confident and hid my insecurities, because that was what was expected of me as a man. I imagine that's a very common experience for a man - you have some weaknesses but you have to swallow them.

People who are truly always confident have it easy, that requires no courage. I think Rick on The Walking Dead said something along the lines of this: In order to be brave, you have to be afraid.