After you realize how much work and sacrifice it takes to get hot girls, you wouldn't want to.

resilient

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@Howiestern How do you maintain your frame man? Is it knowing you could go out there tomorrow and get an easy HB8+ replacement keep any latent insecure/jealousy in check? I'd like to have that abundant mindset, free from attachment self-respect.
 

bigneil

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Most of the women I've dated were head turners. You send your hot girl to the bar to get you a drink and there will be some random guy hitting on her before she gets back. If you aren't standing on top of her at a crowded concert, some guy will move in on her. From the ones I've been with, they got hit on and propositioned all the time. My current girl has logged into her Match.com account and within 5minutes she had 5 messages. I sat there and saw it happen.
Her life was always like that, long before you were there to observe it. That's why, if she chose you to begin with, you already know she must have really liked you. So you have to assume you were already selected as her best option. Now, sometimes she will meet other men who she might seem to like better, but over time those men probably aren't what they claim, so your woman might get distracted but she will return to you in time. You need to let that process happen sometimes. That's when it's easy to lose control. It's only after you get through that and you become her #1 option that she will talk about commitment.

Regarding your backup options, other women will become available simply by observing that she likes you. They will study her to see if she really does.
 

The Duke

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@Howiestern How do you maintain your frame man? Is it knowing you could go out there tomorrow and get an easy HB8+ replacement keep any latent insecure/jealousy in check? I'd like to have that abundant mindset, free from attachment self-respect.
I wish I could say HB8+’s were easy to come by, but for me they certainly aren’t. Yes I do know there will be another one, because I don't give up until I get what I want. But, I have to work at it, and I go without sometimes. I’m highly secure and confident in myself which has to do with how I was raised so I’m not easily deterred by much.

There was a time when I spun plates and went thru a lot of women. I spent a lot of time making sure I had a constant supply and back then the health of my ego depended on it. I wanted instant gratification. I was fresh out of a divorce so my ego was pretty fragile. I used women to validate my greatness because deep down I really didn’t feel I was that great. It’s no different than a female posting selfies and collecting likes on facebook. Its all artificial and doesn’t last. Eventually I wanted better but it took me improving myself.

With more experience, continuous self-improvement, self-reflection, and filtering for higher quality women I soon started to realize my value. I didn’t need to constantly have a woman to validate me. And when you don’t need a woman in your life, you tend to raise your requirements and obtain better prospects as a result. You also don’t say “yes” to whatever is attractive and shows up at your place. Going without has also taught me more patience. Its allowed me to practice self-control and discipline. This is how you develop a strong frame. You come to rely on yourself more. You realize that there isn’t much you can do about others, the only way you can do something about is yourself. You push yourself to make better choices on who you let into your life. You stop giving into your emotions(horny, lonely, etc). A guy with a truly strong frame will be able to go without.

Start out with small successes and build on them. You can apply this to everything in life, not just women. The same thinking cProve to yourself that you can do it. The first step is trying and having expectations for yourself.

Also what BigNeil had to say is spot on. Remember she chose you. She felt that you were the best out of all her options. Those other guys are orbiters for a reason. You stand above them and that's why she chose you. the first step is to make sure you bring more to the table than they do.

I will leave you with a quote from a girl I am with now showed me:

Its hard for a woman to stay loyal to a man that has nothing, and its hard for a man to stay loyal to a woman when he has everything. Be that Man.
 
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Bingo-Player

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I know in the "community" there is this whole "self-improvement" and "learn game" stuff going around. Just "improve yourself" and you'll be pulling supermodels as a geeky software engineer.

I've learned that once guys learn about the kind of sacrifice it takes to pull hot girls, they would not even want to. A lot will simply say "hot girls are b-tches" and "there is more to life than p-ssy". The truth is that as much as they advertise on PUA and even on here, very few guys are actually made to get hot girls or be seen as options by them. It isn't just genetics either, it's mindset and that determined spirit that I will talk about.

Getting hot girls actually requires sacrifice.

Getting the 8s and 9s, obviously the 10s if they exist, requires sacrifice. You won't get hot girls by being some MMORPG player that posts on PUA forums all day, now I wait for one of you give me that one rare exception that did it smh.

Despite what PUA might have told you, guys who get hot girls have actually put a lot of work into it or lucked into a lot of great circumstances (rich parents) growing up that made it possible.

You don't just approach 100+ hot girls looking like a dorky MMORPG player or a socially awkward nerd with no experience then expect to get them, it doesn't happen that way.

It requires sacrifice and results on paper.

The athlete who was excellent at his trade, had decent looks, and climbed to the top in his sport gets the supermodels.

The actor who risked it all and went completely out there to chase his dream, succeeded, and made it gets the supermodels.

The bar owner whose bar took off and managed to put some money on the line as well as make it big, he gets the hot girls.

The musician who practiced countless hours and made it big due to his one lucky break, made hit after hit, he gets hot girls.

What about the rest of the guys?

The rest of the guys who get model material girls, they have also put the work in.

A lot of them, if they don't have model looks themselves, put serious work into the gym to look good. They developed alpha personalities over the years which most of you don't really have. An alpha accepts the harsh truths of life and works around them instead of whining and resorting to sour grapes. A lot of them took up some interesting hobbies and lucked into one in which they met a hot girl.

Most of you are under the impression that reading game posts, knowing about game, and all that will get you hot girls, it won't.

The guy who put the work in at the gym, talked to lots of girls, failed hard, improved his life after countless hours of pain, developed an alpha personality over the years, and really put himself out there into circumstances where he is actually interacting with hot girls a lot might luck out.

The guy who preached about game, the nature of women, took on a cynical mindset, and attempted to be a game know it all will hardly have that sort of success.

Because it's easy.

It's easy to have that 9 to 5, come home, post on forums, and attempt to give off your scholarly knowledge on the nature of women.

It's hard to really get that top tier body, develop that alpha personality, find and get into those fun hobbies and groups that attract hot girls, be a part of their social world, and truly immerse yourself into the game. The path is full of roadblocks, rejections, and even at times acknowledging that your market value as a guy isn't quite there yet.

Once you realize how much work it takes, you won't even bother.

Once you realize that it is more than watching PUA vids, spam approaching randoms, and "learning game" if you want top tier girls; you would not even want to bother with it.
"PUA" is a term created to generate revenue for its applicators yes

but you would have to be pretty stupid lazy AND desperate to pay for any material on game anyway the entire open world is a resource you can learn from

online forums like this one , friends failures , and most importantly your own experiences in life

i got lucky i was blessed with good genetics and have developed a strong independent attitude over the years not really needing anyone

and i can promise you i have had some VERY dark days when it comes to women but I've also had moments where I've done well and thought FVCK well done bingo that was expertly played

to be honest i don't think anyone on here can be expecting to pull super models

I mean before even attempting to date the "top tier" of women on this planet you actually need to gain access to them first and that takes self success or possibly inherited success although i find that never works aswell

all the rest of us "normal" guys can do is keep plodding along and looking for chicks that aren't crazy or hoe's its a feckless task but if you want to put your d1ck inside pu$$y that is what you have to do

and to be honest is there much else to do in life ? lol
 

oOh Nasty

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You can basically say this particular statement about anything.

"After you realize how much work and sacrifice it takes to get [insert anything that only 1% of dudes can achieve], you wouldn't want to."

My personal belief is that if you desire something, just go and get it, no matter what it takes. If your desire is to have a peaceful life and mediocre women, then go and get it. If your desire is to have the best women, food, material items, connections, and appearance, then go and get it. If your desire is to be the top MMORPG player while having a cute HB6 or HB7 girlfriend, then go and get it.

Desiring something, yet not making any attempts to achieve it and rationlizing your way out of your desires is a waste of life.

I don't pity the guy who knows what he wants and is working to achieve it, even if, by society's standards, those achievements are "mediocre." What I pity is the guy who has these desires but makes excuses and decides that it's not worth it to go for what he truly wants.
 

Peace and Quiet

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

Julian

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lol @ hot girls. dude get these hoes off the damn pedestal. beauty is common.
 

Bokanovsky

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What about the rest of the guys?

The rest of the guys who get model material girls, they have also put the work in.
You know who else gets model material girls with ease? Drug dealers (not that I'm advocating becoming a drug dealer to get girls).

At the end of the day, it's supply and demand. If you have something that women want, be it lots of money, social status, looks or something that they cannot easily get without your help (i.e. drugs), you will have no problem banging hot chicks. The worst thing is to be an average Joe with an average job. Those rarely get to bang hot chicks.
 

resilient

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Solid reply, @Howiestern. Thanks man, made my day! I was getting down about being solo this last year after separation and divorce and I tried to rebuild myself back up with loads of hobbies that fed my adrenaline and self-esteem. I started plate spinning after feeling comfortable being single, but now I feel like I'm back where I started after my separation. I'm chasing back up the wall with low IL after initial high IL in attraction phase.

I'm working on getting my financial situation solid with a career transition that's going to continue to take a lot of time and effort. It's not impossible and I'm doing everything I can to get there, I just have to continue with determination and make it my #1 top priority. Plate spinning was an added benefit lately, yet I've noticed that's distracting me from priority #1 and I'm losing confidence fast.

I'm considering dropping all low IL plates again until I learn to stop seeking validation in dating and develop that patience, self-control, self-respect you were talking about.

I like what you said two with the last two quotes one from BigNeil and what you wrote... I'll definitely keep those...

When I was thinking about your post, I had an epiphany. We DJs are kinda like real estate in terms of self-improvement. We put our house (self) up on the market with a listing price. We wait for walkthroughs or offers. If the house doesn't sell or generate excitement, it goes off the market and restrategizing happens (re-working inner game, exercise, diet, etc.). We renovate the house with (hobbies, values, competition, social buzz) and put the house back on the market.

So when you said "she chose you" instead of the orbiters (houses), it's like she thought you were best house on the block worth settling down with or nesting (family potential) and accepts dates and crosses off the ex's and orbiters on the list to make you exclusive.
 

zekko

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Sexy comes from self confidence before it comes from anything else. If you want great sex in your relationship find someone you find to be very sexy...and date women who find you very sexy. This is what desirability is. I dated a dentist in NYC many years ago. His comment about models (and he had dated several) was that they are too insecure to truly be sexy in many cases.
This is a topic that I have always been befuddled and confused about.

I have always struggled to understand, and I probably never will fully understand women's preoccupation with confidence. I agree that sexy is not the same as good looking. There I many women I find absolutely beautiful, but I don't find them particularly sexy, while there may be another girl who has more homely features who seem to be just seething with sexuality. Self confidence can be sexy in a woman, but I don't think it is required. I think self confidence must be a more masculine feature, which may be part of the answer.

I mean if a guy is confident, so what? What does that prove? Unless he has actual reasons to be confident, it seems to me that his confidence is hollow. But women seem to be like confidence for its own sake. I can see that confidence allows a guy to be more relaxed and be himself, let his true personality come through, which is a good thing. But what about things like arrogance, swagger, and overconfidence? Are these sexy also? Swagger to me suggests insecurity, because it hints at overcompensating.

Even as a young man, I was always told to be confident, so I've always faked it if I didn't feel it, but I've never fully understood why, and probably never will. Why do women find confidence so attractive?

I know that if a guy is confident, then that allows him to be the aggressor, and that way the woman doesn't have to do the "work" of creating the hookup. And it may hint at hidden positive attributes, but if there are no actual attributes to be confident about, why is it attractive? Or is it? Is it a dominance thing?
 

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

ChristopherColumbus

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Confidence is being grounded. You stand like an oak, hardly swayed this way or that. This is what women are instinctively attracted to... that is if they aren't too scatter-brained by social media.
 

Mike32ct

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All else being equal, I'm sure she's more comfortable around a guy that has a vibe that he can "handle anything." I don't doubt that. Even as a guy, it's nice to hang out with a buddy that has this "can handle anything" vibe.

But in real life, I honestly can't recall (in the last 20 years) overhearing a female talking about the "confidence" of a guy they like. It was usually his looks, mention of him being funny/witty/sarcastic with respect to personality, and job/money/status.
 

BeExcellent

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This is a topic that I have always been befuddled and confused about.

I have always struggled to understand, and I probably never will fully understand women's preoccupation with confidence. I agree that sexy is not the same as good looking. There I many women I find absolutely beautiful, but I don't find them particularly sexy, while there may be another girl who has more homely features who seem to be just seething with sexuality. Self confidence can be sexy in a woman, but I don't think it is required. I think self confidence must be a more masculine feature, which may be part of the answer.

I mean if a guy is confident, so what? What does that prove? Unless he has actual reasons to be confident, it seems to me that his confidence is hollow. But women seem to be like confidence for its own sake. I can see that confidence allows a guy to be more relaxed and be himself, let his true personality come through, which is a good thing. But what about things like arrogance, swagger, and overconfidence? Are these sexy also? Swagger to me suggests insecurity, because it hints at overcompensating.

Even as a young man, I was always told to be confident, so I've always faked it if I didn't feel it, but I've never fully understood why, and probably never will. Why do women find confidence so attractive?

I know that if a guy is confident, then that allows him to be the aggressor, and that way the woman doesn't have to do the "work" of creating the hookup. And it may hint at hidden positive attributes, but if there are no actual attributes to be confident about, why is it attractive? Or is it? Is it a dominance thing?
This is long. I apologize in advance. TLDR in bold.

I will try and explain it. It isn't just confidence. When I am talking about confidence it's not confident about just anything. Confidence in a sexual way is sexy. Confidence in one's masculinity and all that embodies (sexual desire.) Confidence in an "I might be bad news" way is sexy. Confident in an "I am trouble but I just can't help it" way is sexy. Confident in an "I know I am a great fvck" kind of way. It is about being empowered in your OWN sexual nature. Be genuinely unapologetic about it. If you are playful it will take on a playful varnish, if you are reserved it will take on a mysterious varnish, if you are gregarious it will take on a charming varnish...This isn't confidence about being great at your job or being confident about your looks. It's being confident that you are desirable and it is not apologizing for that self view.

One of the best real life examples I can think of is Benicio Del Toro. That man oozes sexuality. He's been in commercials where he is intentionally mistaken for Antonio Banderas and his line is simply "I am NOT Antonio Banderas" but he doesn't say who he is. He doesn't need to. He gives off a sexual no give a sh1t attitude which is at once intense and completely laid back. His attitude is utterly unapologetic, yet when he is interviewed he is actually quite gracious. He knows he's IT so much he's chill about it. It is what it is. Joe Namath is another example that comes to mind. Same attitude. There is a great ESPN 30 for 30 or A Football Life (don't recall which) on Namath. It's a great watch if y'all haven't seen it.

Men who are very sexy love women, are comfortable with women, are completely at ease with women, and yet are not perceived as docile by women. Be the guy who might smile and flip her skirt up in an alleyway. Be the guy who asks the woman next to you with a sly grin whether you should take the gal across the room home. Be the guy who is out with his buddies enjoying a cigar ignoring the hot women sitting right next to him (because after all hot women are as normal as breathing). Be the guy who says to a woman with a warm smile "You're ALL crazy darling, every one of you." It is an unwavering acknowledgement of the masculine sexual nature. It is mental and builds sexual tension. It can be charming and debonair, it can be genteel even. It can be crass, it can be nerdy. But it all comes from the unapologetic place of I AM MAN; I AM SEXUAL in many non-verbal cues, which a woman reads on a subconscious level all at once.

It is never insecure. Ever. It can vulnerable but never insecure.

Two men on SS that I am quite sure are like this in real life are @Bible_Belt and @bradd80. It's not that you are Adonis or perfect, in fact it's the imperfections and flaws that add the authenticity and the charm. Both BB and Bradd come across as a mess in their own way and for different reasons. They are players; they just need saving. (They don't really - but this is part of the appeal.) This is why women adore the rake. The rake is what he is, he simply cannot help himself and it is endlessly seductive for a woman to think she will be the one to reform the rake.

Usually the true rake cannot be reformed nor possessed and thus he is endlessly unobtainable and endlessly fascinating. He is also endlessly frustrating and is often quite alone at his core. While he cannot be possessed he can be understood if a woman has enough self assurance to know what she is dealing with (most do not.) Ladybird Johnson understood LBJ in this way. LBJ had lots of mistresses and dalliances. But Ladybird knew she was THE WIFE, the confidant, the one who "got" him. And she didn't worry about his floozies at the end of the day.

To go to the extreme of the true rake may not be in a man's best interest (depending on his goals). But a sexy man is always a man with an attitude of abundance, he always has the ability to dial up options, and even if he is married his wife is well aware that other women would happily swoop in and take her place. So women want to please this sort of man, for he must be pleased since he is choosing to choose her and she best not become controlling or complacent.

Women can have this kind of sexual vibe too. Marilyn Monroe obviously had it. So did Mae West, Sophia Loren, and Raquel Welch; the best current example of it in Hollywood right now is Margot Robbie IMO. The overt sexuality of sexual confidence is inherently masculine, even if it is exhibited by a woman. Look up the Rake, the Siren, the Masculine Dandy (a woman) and the Feminine Dandy (a man).

So it is not just confidence. It is unapologetic sexual confidence. As a man you can develop your sexual confidence by building your confidence in other areas of your existence and by building your comfort level around women (get rejected; get a woman friend to wing for you; get used to saying what you think and not pandering or apologizing if some feminist makes a face; etc.) And for heaven's sake do not do it in a professional environment...but sexual confidence is what comes off as sexiness.
 
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zekko

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Interesting comments from Neil, Chris, and Mike. I can certainly see those as factors that make confidence appealing. Maybe I find it confusing because it isn't simply one thing that makes confidence attractive, it is a number of things.

BeExcellent, I am aware you are fond of players, and it seems like most of your post is about lauding the glories of the player moreso than confidence. However, I have always maintained that a man does not need to put on the "bad boy" image in order to attract women, so I'm not do sure I'm moved.
 

BeExcellent

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Its not meant to glorify players @zekko Players have many flaws and are often too jaded to bond. But they have an appeal to women that is well documented to the point of caricature. I do personally like a man who has enough sexual confidence that he could get other women, but I prefer a man who is happy with me.

I have a fair amount of insight into player behavior from a number of vantage points, but you asked about confidence. I was trying to explain what that looks like from the female perspective. I was not suggesting men should ascribe to that particular lifestyle necessarily, but rather men should seek to be sexually confident, and not meek about it because this is broadly appealing to women and it is a different sort of confidence than professional competence, wealth or success confers.

Edit: Searching around the web apparently my word choice could be confusing. By sexual confidence I mean what is generally known as sex appeal - and general self-confidence is a part of this but not the whole thing.
 
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zekko

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You said a confident man will be comfortable with women. Goes along with what I said about confidence allowing a man to relax and be his best self. He can be playful and not walking on eggshells, worried that he might say the wrong thing. He can be himself.

I agree that insecurity in a man is not sexy. But women are allowed to be insecure, and can still be sexy. Look at how often you hear "All hot women are insecure"'.

Confidence in a woman can be sexy, but I don't believe it is a necessary ingredient. All part of the difference between femininity and masculinity.

Anyway, I still find it puzzling, but I do feel a bit clearer on it.
 

Thechamp

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The op is 100 percent right so Many guys on the forum are full of **** , if they where as successful as they say why would they be on a forum about how to get hot girls , I'm not saying give up on getting hot girls but it's tough looks matter more than ever his day and age , who cares ***** is ***** just because it looks better doesn't mean it's better , what one man likes another Might not also if our parents where this fussy would we even be here , I think it comes down to finding someone your happy with some people get lucky some don't.
 

bigneil

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BeExcellent, naturally if a man looks like Antonio Banderas he will be treated in a way that eventually leads him to act confident around women. That isn't something he got to choose.

I'm not sure what revelations are provided by a woman saying "I REALLY like the world's hottest men. Be like them."

The op is 100 percent right so Many guys on the forum are full of **** , if they where as successful as they say why would they be on a forum about how to get hot girls
You're asking why the men who are telling you how they got hot girls are on a forum where men seek advice about how to get hot girls? That's like saying "That teacher isn't smart, if he was, why would he still be in school"? You know someone isn't good with women when you explain exactly how to get them and they say "You must be full of sh!t!"

And for the love of God your punctuation is so bad you should be arrested. Try using periods and capitalizing the first letter of a sentence, not some random letters.
 
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BeExcellent

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I'm telling men to be unapologetic in their masculinity, be confident in their sex appeal, practice being comfortable interacting with women and I'm using examples to demonstrate what that behavior looks like.

Guys here sometimes say act like James Bond too. He's fictional. I mean if you want to be a ball player you go to a pro's workshop right? You don't consult the Pop Warner league.

That's all. The right attitude and the way a man carries himself is so much of the battle.

Have I personally dated very good looking men? Yes. Do I understand the player type? Yes.

My whole point was that the man I married was not one of the best looking if you took a cross section of men I dated...nor was he the most wealthy or successful out of the group I dated...but he is the man I picked...and I was a woman men wanted.

Sex appeal gave my ex an edge over better looking more successful men.

The man I dated (and who I left) before my ex husband was a professional model (with terrible insecurities) and car dealer. The model was gorgeous, always swimming in hot girls vying for his attention.

The attention from the other women never bugged me, that was a given, but his insecurities and neuroses were a turn off. My ex was nice looking but not professional model good looking...but he was secure in himself and great to be around. I remember after I got engaged model guy came in the club and was going on about my ring...he asked was I seriously getting married and went on about it.

I heard along the way from mutual acquaintances later on that he was bummed he missed the boat with me. He was a cool guy too, smart, ambitious. Insecurity was his undoing. It led to the player lifestyle (and eventually led to his death).

I'm just encouraging men to embrace their desires and up their comfort level around women and improve their sex appeal in that way.

To say looks are everything is inaccurate. That is a cop out.

I've had dates with men who were or are great looking but not good with women as far as I was concerned.

I can think of guys who were too timid, many who were too sexually aggressive too fast, some who were horrible at kissing (that's a different topic but an immediate NEXT!) several who were square/awkward & several who were indecisive, several who came across as too boring/nothing in common.

So much of this is subjective as you can see but upping comfort level interacting with women as well as sex appeal will help men overcome many of the turn offs I noted above through better calibration with women.

You can't win if you don't try. You can't improve if you don't try.

To categorically throw in the towel as per the OPs attitude is self defeating.
 
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