After giving it some thought, turns out my fear of rejection isn't *really* a fear of rejection

[BaronOfHair]

I'm throwing the towel on this one. I wish the rest of you fellas luck, trying to get through to him

 

[Gamisch]

I'm throwing the towel on this one. I wish the rest of you fellas luck, trying to get through to him

I pray he finds a woman at that speed dating event and is done with the forum for a while.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

The fact I could ask total strangers for sex (knowing that's a recipe for almost certain rejection), yet can't ask out a woman I know well (even if she's given me an IOI) goes to show I don't fear the rejection itself; what I fear is having to run into the woman after a rejection (I knew I was highly unlikely to run into these total strangers ever again. Yet if I know a woman well, I'm obviously going to run into her again. And just because she's given me an IOI doesn't mean she'll definitely accept my ask out)

Naw bruh, if you have clear IOI's, it's foolish to not ask her out.

IOI's don't come often..so when they do, take advantage of them.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

On a standard daygame approach, men are often offering dates after 5 minute conversations. In standard daygame, you are lucky to get a woman who will talk with you for 5 minutes.

There are daygame approachers who will offer a date in far less than 5 minutes. @We_ArE_VeNOM is one example of a daygame approacher who uses this method.

Hell yeah, I'm tryna give her my # in 10 second or less.

 

[GoodMan32]

On a standard daygame approach, men are often offering dates after 5 minute conversations. In standard daygame, you are lucky to get a woman who will talk with you for 5 minutes.

There are daygame approachers who will offer a date in far less than 5 minutes. @We_ArE_VeNOM is one example of a daygame approacher who uses this method.



In older school speed dating formats (back 10-20 years ago), one of 2 things happened....

1. you handed in a card to an organizer and then the organizer emailed you in 24-48 hours later with your matches and their contact info.
2. you went to a website, filled in your yes and no to people, then you got your mutual yes responses within 24-48 hours.

Not sure if there have been format changes but a personal card is useless in either of those formats.

Speed dating is a fast format. No one is denying that. It's an absolute crap format and the bottom of the barrel in terms of meeting women. Valuable men do not waste their time at speed dating, or realize quickly that it is a crap format and move on.

If you wanted to make lemonade out of lemons at speed dating events, you would ask them on a date on the spot and collect their number.

In general, the events should be avoided. People only go to speed dating events when they can't solve their dating problems through swipe apps, DMs, or real life, non-staged interactions.

In approaching strangers in real life, a phone number without a set date plan is mostly worthless. Any approacher who has done a lot of daygame/nightgame will tell you that.

The format has changed. The speed dating events I went to didn't do the behind-the-scenes matchmaker thing.

 

[GoodMan32]

Naw bruh, if you have clear IOI's, it's foolish to not ask her out.

IOI's don't come often..so when they do, take advantage of them.

I'm an autist. I have a track record of misreading IOIs.

My fear is that the IOI will turn out to be imaginary.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

I'm an autist. I have a track record of misreading IOIs.

That's why I said "clear" IOIs.

My fear is that the IOI will turn out to be imaginary.

Which is why you shouldn't wait for IOI's, you cold approach.

As for the women you know, I doubt your social circle is that big to whereas this should be a major concern.

However, if it is that much of a concern, then you either accept it about yourself by making it a rule of thumb to not ask out women you know, or you simply man up and do what you have to do by asking them out, regardless of the outcome.

Either way, cold approach is the way to go...if you aint cold approaching, you ain't doing shiit in the game.

 

[GoodMan32]

That's why I said "clear" IOIs.



Which is why you shouldn't wait for IOI's, you cold approach.

As for the women you know, I doubt your social circle is that big to whereas this should be a major concern.

However, if it is that much of a concern, then you either accept it about yourself by making it a rule of thumb to not ask out women you know, or you simply man up and do what you have to do by asking them out, regardless of the outcome.

Either way, cold approach is the way to go...if you aint cold approaching, you ain't doing shiit in the game.

When you're an autist, even if you think an IOI is crystal clear, it could mean nothing. As an example, when I was in college, a female classmate wanted my assistance in the computer lab. Rather than have me pull up a chair, she scooted over in her chair (and had me share the seat with her). I thought that was a pretty clear IOI. Yet it turned out the girl wasn't into me.

Just typing that story out was hard for me (having to relive a bad/humiliating memory). I've said before on this forum I (despite being straight) would rather kiss a man than get rejected by a woman I need to cross paths with again. I mean it. For that matter, if kissing a man would make my memory of that girl from the computer lab go away, I'd kiss a man.

As for my social circle, I don't really have much of a social circle. But there's still many a woman I cross paths with on a regular basis, even if they aren't in my social circle (neighbors, coworkers, employees at businesses I frequent, etc). I've gotten what I thought were IOIs from gals in all 3 of those categories, yet I've refused to make moves because of my aversion to crossing paths with a woman I got rejected by.

My rejection rate is at least 93% by the way (possibly higher; I've lost count). So it's not that I merely think I might get rejected. It's that I know I will get rejected (with the exception of the extremely rare freak of nature occurrence)

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

When you're an autist, even if you think an IOI is crystal clear, it could mean nothing. As an example, when I was in college, a female classmate wanted my assistance in the computer lab. Rather than have me pull up a chair, she scooted over in her chair (and had me share the seat with her). I thought that was a pretty clear IOI. Yet it turned out the girl wasn't into me.

Understandable.

Which is why CA is superior, because it doesn't even take her perceived IOI's into consideration.

In other words, you ask her out because you find her attractive, not because she gave you a signal.

Just typing that story out was hard for me (having to relive a bad/humiliating memory). I've said before on this forum I (despite being straight) would rather kiss a man than get rejected by a woman I need to cross paths with again. I mean it. For that matter, if kissing a man would make my memory of that girl from the computer lab go away, I'd kiss a man.

Although on the extreme side, understandable.

Again, cold approach... because as you've acknowledged, the chances of you encountering those women again is slim to none... especially if you live in a big city.

As for my social circle, I don't really have much of a social circle. But there's still many a woman I cross paths with on a regular basis, even if they aren't in my social circle (neighbors, coworkers, employees at businesses I frequent, etc).

Well again, simply don't ask out any of those women.

Those women are not even a small fraction compared to what you'll find in day or night game.

I've gotten what I thought were IOIs from gals in all 3 of those categories, yet I've refused to make moves because of my aversion to crossing paths with a woman I got rejected by.

If it's that bad, then don't do it.

My rejection rate is at least 93% by the way (possibly higher; I've lost count). So it's not that I merely think I might get rejected. It's that I know I will get rejected (with the exception of the extremely rare freak of nature occurrence)

How is your body game? What do you say when you approach a woman?

Both are equally important.

 

[SW15]

Either way, cold approach is the way to go...if you aint cold approaching, you ain't doing shiit in the game.

For most men, this will be true. There are top tier men good looking enough to get dates solely from swipe apps.

CA is superior, because it doesn't even take her perceived IOI's into consideration.

In other words, you ask her out because you find her attractive, not because she gave you a signal.

I've done approaches with or without IOIs. I prefer to do with them IOIs but if I'm attracted enough, I'm going to do the approach.

Again, cold approach... because as you've acknowledged, the chances of you encountering those women again is slim to none... especially if you live in a big city.

Approaching unknown women in a big city is usually safe in terms in avoiding running into the same women again.

This is why a male needs to move fast on his approaches. There's no guarantee in the big city that he'll ever see her again so he needs to make plans with her in that moment and collect her number.

Those women are not even a small fraction compared to what you'll find in day or night game.

Agree with this.

My rejection rate is at least 93% by the way (possibly higher; I've lost count). So it's not that I merely think I might get rejected. It's that I know I will get rejected (with the exception of the extremely rare freak of nature occurrence)

How do you define rejection rate?

Very good pickup artists get rejected a lot too.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

For most men, this will be true. There are top tier men good looking enough to get dates solely from swipe apps.

If a man is good looking enough to pull a woman from a dating app, then it logically follows that he would also be able to pull her on a cold approach.

So suppose neither of them ever encountered each other on the swipe app, yet, one saw the other at a grocery store...do you not approach her because "she isn't on a dating app, therefore, I won't approach her"?

That's not an alpha mentality, in my opinion.

I've done approaches with or without IOIs.

So have I.

But you know me, I'm a daygame guy...and based on the nature of daygame, those IOIs are hard to come by.

When I go out on a daygame hunt, my head is on a constant swivel, and the women that I'm going after, are not.

So, what does this mean? This means that 95% of the time, the unsuspecting woman never even saw me scoping her out from a distance.

She never saw me coming. She doesn't even know I'm there.

No time for IOIs.

No room for choosing signals.

Just....go.

Or, if you are riding down the street and you see a cutie at the bus stop.

She can't possibly give you any IOI's, can she?

Just...go.

That, is an alpha mentality.

Don't think about it. Just bust a U-turn, get out your car/truck/motorcycle...and go.

I prefer to do with them IOIs but if I'm attracted enough, I'm going to do the approach.

That's what I'm talking bout.

Approaching unknown women in a big city is usually safe in terms in avoiding running into the same women again.

Hundreds of approaches and I don't recall one woman that I saw again after having a prior cold approach encounter...except if she works at a place that I frequent.

This is why a male needs to move fast on his approaches. There's no guarantee in the big city that he'll ever see her again so he needs to make plans with her in that moment and collect her number.

Move quickly and decisively.

 

[SW15]

Hundreds of approaches and I don't recall one woman that I saw again after having a prior cold approach encounter...except if she works at a place that I frequent.

This has been generally true in my experiences. Most daygame venues in big cities feature different people at different times.

Men doing daygame, night game, or app swiping generally don't need to worry about running into the same woman after an approach or a sexless 1-2 date interaction.

I'm a daygame guy...and based on the nature of daygame, those IOIs are hard to come by.

Daygame IOIs are more difficult to get but IOIs in general are more difficult to get.

Millennial and Gen Z women have worse social skills than the predecessors. In general, these women are worse at giving IOIs because of the influence of technology.

I noticed this as far back as 2012 and had a real life conversation about this with my uncle in 2012. I was noticing fewer IOIs in night game in 2011-2012 as compared to 2004-2005 (ages 21-22 for me when I first became able to go to bars).

A similar trend has happened in daygame over the years.

Earbuds/headphones/smartphones have reduced women's abilities to pay attention to the outside world and give IOIs.

In daygame, there are also more women with boyfriends out in the world who are not seeking new penis. They won't be giving IOIs either. In daygame, it is impossible to figure out who is disinterested due to a boyfriend or who is unattached and disinterested (often due to technology and not being aware of the outside world).

When I go out on a daygame hunt, my head is on a constant swivel, and the women that I'm going after, are not.

So, what does this mean? This means that 95% of the time, the unsuspecting woman never even saw me scoping her out from a distance.

She never saw me coming. She doesn't even know I'm there.

This one I partially agree with. I fish for IOIs in many cases in daygame approaching.

I will often make my presence known to women by coming towards them slowly and in the opposite direction. This is mostly relevant on walking paths and grocery stores. This gives me enough time to make strong eye contact with them and smile. I can see who gives me warmer body language and an approach invitation.

I do approach without IOIs if I'm attracted enough, but I prefer to have the IOIs before the approach.

 

[Gamisch]

When you're an autist, even if you think an IOI is crystal clear, it could mean nothing. As an example, when I was in college, a female classmate wanted my assistance in the computer lab. Rather than have me pull up a chair, she scooted over in her chair (and had me share the seat with her). I thought that was a pretty clear IOI. Yet it turned out the girl wasn't into me.

Just typing that story out was hard for me (having to relive a bad/humiliating memory). I've said before on this forum I (despite being straight) would rather kiss a man than get rejected by a woman I need to cross paths with again. I mean it. For that matter, if kissing a man would make my memory of that girl from the computer lab go away, I'd kiss a man.

As for my social circle, I don't really have much of a social circle. But there's still many a woman I cross paths with on a regular basis, even if they aren't in my social circle (neighbors, coworkers, employees at businesses I frequent, etc). I've gotten what I thought were IOIs from gals in all 3 of those categories, yet I've refused to make moves because of my aversion to crossing paths with a woman I got rejected by.

My rejection rate is at least 93% by the way (possibly higher; I've lost count). So it's not that I merely think I might get rejected. It's that I know I will get rejected (with the exception of the extremely rare freak of nature occurrence)

It's not " understandable ".

This dude uses his autism as the ultimate excuse. It's like that weapon in the game that's overpowered: you can never beat that argument IF he wants to use it against HIMSELF.

Dude won't pull because he has nothing to offer. The funny thing about him is he will respond to every post twice untill you ask him a checkmate question. Watch this:
@GoodMan32, what do you have to offer a woman? How will you enrich a woman's life?

Let me ask you again

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

Daygame IOIs are more difficult to get but IOIs in general are more difficult to get.

Millennial and Gen Z women have worse social skills than the predecessors. In general, these women are worse at giving IOIs because of the influence of technology.

I noticed this as far back as 2012 and had a real life conversation about this with my uncle in 2012. I was noticing fewer IOIs in night game in 2011-2012 as compared to 2004-2005 (ages 21-22 for me when I first became able to go to bars).

A similar trend has happened in daygame over the years.

I was heavy on the night game tip, back between 08-10....even OLD.

It was the best 3 year stretch of my life when it comes to puzzy hunting...nothing but fun.

Earbuds/headphones/smartphones have reduced women's abilities to pay attention to the outside world and give IOIs.

I agree.

That's another positive thing about older women, as they don't normally rock earbuds and/or headphones.

This forum doesn't speak highly on older women, but you muhfukaz are missing out on some good, old school loving.

I'm tryna tell ya.

In daygame, there are also more women with boyfriends out in the world who are not seeking new penis. They won't be giving IOIs either. In daygame, it is impossible to figure out who is disinterested due to a boyfriend or who is unattached and disinterested (often due to technology and not being aware of the outside world).

I agree.

That's why my first question is always "Are you single?".

I ask that question, even before her name.

This one I partially agree with. I fish for IOIs in many cases in daygame approaching.

Nothing wrong with that, necessarily.

But the thing is; just because she doesn't show IOIs, doesn't mean she ain't interested.

And a lot of times, she may show IOI's during the actual encounter, which you'll never know if you are basing everything on whether she shows IOI's before the encounter.

My rule of thumb is simple..

If she gives you IOI's, go after it.

If she doesn't give you IOI's, still go after it.

I will often make my presence known to women by coming towards them slowly and in the opposite direction. This is mostly relevant on walking paths and grocery stores. This gives me enough time to make strong eye contact with them and smile. I can see who gives me warmer body language and an approach invitation.

The smiling is hit or miss with me, but as long as you make the approach, hey.

I ain't mad at it.

I do approach without IOIs if I'm attracted enough, but I prefer to have the IOIs before the approach.

I mean, I get it.

But I cant rock with the idea of waiting on her to do something, in order for me to do something.

As the man, I'm taking the lead.

Waiting on her to react, for me to react..just seems rather beta to me.

 

[GoodMan32]

Understandable.

Which is why CA is superior, because it doesn't even take her perceived IOI's into consideration.

In other words, you ask her out because you find her attractive, not because she gave you a signal.



Although on the extreme side, understandable.

Again, cold approach... because as you've acknowledged, the chances of you encountering those women again is slim to none... especially if you live in a big city.



Well again, simply don't ask out any of those women.

Those women are not even a small fraction compared to what you'll find in day or night game.



If it's that bad, then don't do it.



How is your body game? What do you say when you approach a woman?

Both are equally important.

You're right, for a guy like me who's terrified of turning out to be wrong about an IOI, cold approaches are superior in the sense that they don't take IOIs into consideration.

You're also right when you say the gals I cross paths with on a regular basis (coworkers, neighbors, employees at businesses I frequent, etc) are a small population compared to all the cold approach opportunities in a big city.

It's just unfortunate how I get forced to sideline myself from making a move on the gals I statistically have the best chance with. Even if cold approaches shield me from the humiliation of turning out to be wrong about a woman I know's IOI, cold approaches (statistically) are far less likely to lead to success than making a move on a woman you already know.

If by body game, you mean what I'm built like, I shared some images of my body on another thread (and my profile picture is my bicep). For your convenience, I will repost the images I shared on the other thread.


As for your question of what I say when expressing interest in a woman, a lot of my examples are from high school and college. I (for the most part) don't remember my exact wording, with how long ago we're talking about (I'm 33)

There's one instance from college I remember where I point blank recommended a girl from my major department become a casual sex partner with me after class one day.

Then, a bit later, I went through a phase at 23 where I'd invite total strangers in public over for sex.

Also at 23, I made a more subtle approach where I offered to buy cigarettes for a 35 year old woman at a mini mart.

As for a more recent example, there's the girl who works at my office building's cafe. When she complimented my hair multiple times, I told her she looks good too (this was shortly before Christmas)

Then, the other day when I went into the cafe, she complimented my shirt (she said she liked the color: green). I then made a comment about how she likes my hair and my shirt (a subtle reminder that I remembered her flirt comment from December). Then I pointed out that my shirt matches my eye color (a subtle way of getting her to focus on another aspect of my appearance). She said "very pretty." Oh yeah, she also volunteered her first name in the flirt session the other day.

 

[GoodMan32]

If a man is good looking enough to pull a woman from a dating app, then it logically follows that he would also be able to pull her on a cold approach.

So suppose neither of them ever encountered each other on the swipe app, yet, one saw the other at a grocery store...do you not approach her because "she isn't on a dating app, therefore, I won't approach her"?

That's not an alpha mentality, in my opinion.



So have I.

But you know me, I'm a daygame guy...and based on the nature of daygame, those IOIs are hard to come by.

When I go out on a daygame hunt, my head is on a constant swivel, and the women that I'm going after, are not.

So, what does this mean? This means that 95% of the time, the unsuspecting woman never even saw me scoping her out from a distance.

She never saw me coming. She doesn't even know I'm there.

No time for IOIs.

No room for choosing signals.

Just....go.

Or, if you are riding down the street and you see a cutie at the bus stop.

She can't possibly give you any IOI's, can she?

Just...go.

That, is an alpha mentality.

Don't think about it. Just bust a U-turn, get out your car/truck/motorcycle...and go.



That's what I'm talking bout.



Hundreds of approaches and I don't recall one woman that I saw again after having a prior cold approach encounter...except if she works at a place that I frequent.



Move quickly and decisively.

I had a decent amount of luck from tech methods in 2012. Chances are they would have turned me down if I made an in-person approach.

One good thing about tech methods is that they give me a chance to hide my social awkwardness when making a first impression.

With how oversaturated tech methods have become since 2012, however, even tech methods are an unrealistic option for me now.

 

[SW15]

That's another positive thing about older women, as they don't normally rock earbuds and/or headphones.

What age range do you think this is?

But the thing is; just because she doesn't show IOIs, doesn't mean she ain't interested.

This is true. It's an easier and higher probability approach if she shows IOIs.

she may show IOI's during the actual encounter, which you'll never know if you are basing everything on whether she shows IOI's before the encounter.

This is a valid point.

 

[GoodMan32]

It's not " understandable ".

This dude uses his autism as the ultimate excuse. It's like that weapon in the game that's overpowered: you can never beat that argument IF he wants to use it against HIMSELF.

Dude won't pull because he has nothing to offer. The funny thing about him is he will respond to every post twice untill you ask him a checkmate question. Watch this:
@GoodMan32, what do you have to offer a woman? How will you enrich a woman's life?

Let me ask you again

My autism causes me to misread IOIs.

That's not an excuse; merely a fact.

Autism is a clear disadvantage when it comes to pursuing a woman (because of our difficulty at reading IOIs)

I addressed your question on a past post today.

I was heavy on the night game tip, back between 08-10....even OLD.

It was the best 3 year stretch of my life when it comes to puzzy hunting...nothing but fun.



I agree.

That's another positive thing about older women, as they don't normally rock earbuds and/or headphones.

This forum doesn't speak highly on older women, but you muhfukaz are missing out on some good, old school loving.

I'm tryna tell ya.



I agree.

That's why my first question is always "Are you single?".

I ask that question, even before her name.



Nothing wrong with that, necessarily.

But the thing is; just because she doesn't show IOIs, doesn't mean she ain't interested.

And a lot of times, she may show IOI's during the actual encounter, which you'll never know if you are basing everything on whether she shows IOI's before the encounter.

My rule of thumb is simple..

If she gives you IOI's, go after it.

If she doesn't give you IOI's, still go after it.



The smiling is hit or miss with me, but as long as you make the approach, hey.

I ain't mad at it.



I mean, I get it.

But I cant rock with the idea of waiting on her to do something, in order for me to do something.

As the man, I'm taking the lead.

Waiting on her to react, for me to react..just seems rather beta to me.

I prefer an older woman.

 

[SW15]

Autism is a clear disadvantage when it comes to pursuing a woman (because of our difficulty at reading IOIs)

Autism is a disadvantage in general but not as much as you think it is on pre-approach IOIs. The disadvantage in autism is deeper in conversations and interactions.

Gen Y/Millennial and Gen Z women aren't as good as signaling as past generations. IOIs in general are down across the board. I noticed this as far back as the early 2010s, before Gen Z even reached adulthood.

In the early 2010s, I noticed that the early to mid 20 something Millennial women weren't giving as many IOIs as in the mid-2000s.

Seducers of the 2010s-2020s have had to deal with fewer pre-approach IOIs in general.