Addressing The CWAF's Biggest Fear - Cheating

[TheException]

Lately the forums have been quite chippy in regards to the whole "boundary against other men" idea...and it got me pondering......whats the REAL issue at play? And no......this will not be some "hate post" on the CWAF crowd. I want to lay out "cheating" and what exactly influences it....because surprisingly we have this incorrect belief going around that any woman putting herself in a situation with other men....is going to cheat 95% of the time......its just absolutely false.

As a pretense to get people up to speed:

CWAF = Men need to place a boundary on their girlfriend in order to ensure she does not put herself in "high risk cheating situations"(their term not mine). They want a woman who does not hang out with any other males and if she refuses to do this......they will not date her.....in other words.....the woman either stops all other male contact or she will not be granted exclusivity. Welcome to Ultimatum 101 - a position of weakness.

TheException = I believe this is pointless. No amount of "mate guarding" will prevent a woman from cheating. If shes going to cheat.....she will. I also further believe that women are able to hangout with other men without sex being involved. I dont see how not setting a "boundary" will result in her being guaranteed to cheat....I firmly reject that. Finally....women USE other men for attention. I did a post on "currency" last week that explains this. Thats why we ALWAYS TALK ABOUT AVOIDING THE FRIEND ZONE!!!! You get stuck here and GET USED.....no sex involved.

Now.....onward march. I was pondering making a post on my own....but I stumbled across a post from Shark, and instead will highlight some key points from it. The post in its entirety is here

From an evolutionary perspective both genders differ heavily on their incentives to cheat and even after you differentiate based on genders, the incentives for women to cheat branch out even further. It would take an entire encyclopedia to fully exhaust the topic. So, I decided I’d make multiple posts on the subject, but for now I’m just going to talk about emotional cheating by women.

1. Incentives to cheat ARE NOT the same. CWAFs claim that women cheat because they "get drunk" or "like another guy". That is neanderthal thinking and very basic. There are much much deeper reasons underneath the veil.

2. This article deals with "emotional cheating" which I believe to be the number 1 reason in terms of occurrence. Sure...I get that some women are "wh0res" and cheat for sh1tty reasons.....but that does not describe the female population as a whole. Surprisingly, even though there are probably more "wh0res" than ever before......they dont make up the majority of "cheating women" in my opinion.

Emotional cheating by women occurs when they are more attracted to another male than their partner. Attraction has been made out to be an enigmatic concept by the multitudes; constantly propagated by phrases like “women don’t know what they want” or “it’s impossible to understand women.” In truth, it’s a very easy concept and we can strip down its mystical facade by looking at it from an objective Darwinian point of view.

Sex is god, as Freud would say, and I’ve never heard of a more true statement. Ensuing their basic survival instincts, every organism is programmed to do one thing, reproduce efficiently. I highlight the word efficiently because this is where the huge fuss over attraction and love come into play. Attraction is simply a natural urge to mate with a partner who will give you the best offspring. It is a psychological impetus created to maximize an organism’s reproductive capabilities.

1. They cheat when they are MORE attracted to another man.....not just find him attractive in general. Hmmmmmm so if we focus on maintaining interest in the relationship and concentrate on how attracted our gf is to us....and us to her......hmmmmmm

2. Reproduce efficiently? Whhhaaaaaat. But I thought women just "get drunk" and have sex all the time.

Now from here, we can see why the subject of cheating becomes so much more complicated. For men, it’s simple. 90% of the time men will cheat because they just couldn’t keep it in their pants. Why? Because for a man, their biological payout will ALWAYS increase by cheating. It is naturally more productive for them to have sex with more than 1 female, at all times. There is never, ever, a single moment in their lives where it would be favorable for them to stay monogamous.

1. Exactly true......men cheating = got drunk and had an oops.

2. The issue with CWAFs is they take this "male mindset of cheating and its payoff to men" and apply it to women. Apple to oranges. As ive said.....men and women are different enough that we could be considered two different species.

Now for a woman, it’s very different. Say a girl is going out with a guy she has a 90% interest level with. If she goes out to a club and meets 9 guys whom she is less attracted to, there is no imperative to cheat. Her biological payout would DECREASE if she mated with someone LESS alpha than her boyfriend. However, there is still a desire to flirt, talk, and otherwise engage themselves with other guys because procuring attention can be done WITHOUT sharing intimacy. They fulfill their need for attention while avoiding a moral encroachment AND they can save sex for their boyfriend – the guy with the most superior genes.

1. Mindblown........but seriously......its that simple. This is why having that constant fear that she is hanging out with any other males is only an issue IF A) She finds him super attractive B) She finds you unattractive and gets her curiosity peaked by someone else.

2. FOCUS ON ATTRACTION ALWAYS. There should be an acronym for that because it applies in almost every situation. FOAA? Hmmmmmm that may do. If she finds you attractive....she will not cheat unless she is a low quality wh0re. Want to actually know a good way to drop her interest? Be insecure and place "boundaries" on her.

Go ahead and read the rest of that article as it gets more in depth. And remember there are definitely exceptions to every rule, so I dont need to hear about the time you slept with some broad who actually really liked her boyfriend. Wasting time talking about the minority is exactly that.....wasted time. Its much more fruitful to discuss common scenarios and situations and to see why your constant fear of her cheating.....is really just that....a fear. Same as being scared of heights......Its time to take on your fears head on. Just FORCING yourself to overcome them. FORCE yourself to stop worrying about what your girlfriend is doing all the time.

Mad props to shark as well for writing such an informative article. Saved me a bunch of time. Visit his website for well written articles like this one.

 

[VikingKing]

and here we go...

 

[zekko]

CWAF = Men need to place a boundary on their girlfriend in order to ensure she does not put herself in "high risk cheating situations"(their term not mine). They want a woman who does not hang out with any other males and if she refuses to do this......they will not date her.....in other words.....the woman either stops all other male contact or she will not be granted exclusivity.

You claim this is not a hate post on the "CWAF" crowd. Yet you have made up an acronym specifically to shame and insult men who set boundaries. I certainly do not consider myself a "CWAF", because I am certainly not "constantly worried about fidelity". If my girlfriend cheats on me, that's on her, easy come easy go. I've had enough women come and go throughout my life that I'm not going to work up a sweat over it.

Now, regarding cheating. My boundary is that my girlfriend should not go out one to one with other males. That is not to prevent her from cheating. To me, if she goes out one on one with other men, that IS cheating. To me. I'm sure YMMV.

I don't care if she talks to other men, I don't care if she texts them, talks to them on Facebook, goes out in a group with some men in it, I don't even care if she flirts with some dude. Why not, I will flirt with girls sometimes. But I draw the line with her spending time one on one with them. I don't care about theories about friendzones, beta orbiters, sexless males, whatever. To me, that's cheating, and disrespecting the relationship. You are free to disapprove as much as you want, but that's my boundary.

 

[JoeMarron]

Agreed when it comes to a woman not likely to cheat on a man she has high interest in. Obviously I disagree with the whole boundaries thing for reasons which have illustrated and debated to death.

I don't care if she talks to other men, I don't care if she texts them, talks to them on Facebook, goes out in a group with some men in it, I don't even care if she flirts with some dude. Why not, I will flirt with girls sometimes. But I draw the line with her spending time one on one with them. I don't care about theories about friendzones, beta orbiters, sexless males, whatever. To me, that's cheating, and disrespecting the relationship. You are free to disapprove as much as you want, but that's my boundary.

*slow clap* I don't give a fvck what another man thinks about how I run a relationship. If I want to set a boundary on wearing polka dot socks I'm gonna do it. If she doesn't like it she can walk.

 

[Alvafe]

and what the **** is CWAF? please don't toss your things around without being explained, unless everyone use it you have to name it.

and I stand for what zekko says, IF she likes you she will not risk anything, group settings, facebook (even though I saw people getting sex using it and yes both was in a LTR), is not biggie, problem is when she start to spend alone time with a guy or start to spend her time more with others then you, and hey, I bet most of us did pull a girl from a group and insolate her enough for at least a kiss no?

 

[AttackFormation]

and I stand for what zekko says, IF she likes you she will not risk anything, group settings, facebook (even though I saw people getting sex using it and yes both was in a LTR), is not biggie, problem is when she start to spend alone time with a guy or start to spend her time more with others then you, and hey, I bet most of us did pull a girl from a group and insolate her enough for at least a kiss no?

I'll just mention what Rollo writes on the rational male, the medium is the message. That means if she starts spending alone time with a guy, starts to spend her time more with others than you or lets herself get isolated and is receptive to being made out with - that's your message. Just setting boundaries implies that she could cross them and if she does, why would you want to keep her? even a girl who doesn't physically cheat or anything can still be a girl you want to drop because she's not fantasizing about YOU anymore, desire has to be genuine to be desire and if she crosses those boundaries then obviously isn't not genuine anymore and she's already a lost case even if not physically so. Why would you even want to keep a girl who is in danger of crossing boundaries? But if she doesn't, why the need for boundaries? it just comes off as weak and short-sighted to me.

Now whether you find out is another thing, but I don't think "setting boundaries" helps you to do so. Is she gonna come home after she's f*cked your neighbour and go "sorry hun, I crossed a boundary" ? I don't think so.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

^exactly, for some reason, a lot of posters can't quite grasp this concept. And it's too bad Rollo isn't coming in here to add anything of his own to these threads.

and here we go...

How many guys here have been in successful, healthy LTR's? Really?

I'm wondering where this notion is coming from that you need to tell a woman that she can't see other men one on one?

I have two plates right now that would fall on their face if I decided to commit to them. They would love nothing more for me to tell them that they need to drop all other men in their life and commit to me. They would like that, and they both would probably do it. However, I don't think either of them are really seeing any other guys. I know one of them is dating here and there, simply because I told her she needs to because I'm not going to commit to her.

That being said, if I did decide to commit to either of them, I would not feel the need to have to tell them anything of the kind. They would dive into the relationship with everything they had, while at the same time, trying to prove to me that they are a suitable mate for me.

Now, I honestly feel, that though they would like to hear me tell them to drop other men, that they would do it on their own.......but they would still be surprised to hear something like that come out of my mouth. While, yes, they would be joyous, I think they would do somewhat of a double take while hearing me tell them that they need to cut other men out of their lives.

Two reasons:

1) by their actions so far, if we were to commit to each other, I should have no concern that they are seeing or would see other men for any other purpose other then friendship.

2) I feel it would make me sound insecure and somewhat jealous of other men. And by this point in our relationships, I have, so far, showed nothing of the kind.

Now, I know zekko and AS, are on different grounds here when it comes to this sort of thing. And both of these posters are long time respected posters, so it wouldn't make any sense to simply throw their views and experiences right out the window. So this is my interpretation of what they've stated on this subject:

AS claims that women have said that they want him to set boundaries. Key word here: want. This is very important. Want. If a woman wants you to tell her not to see other men, then this is the complete opposite if you're forcing a woman to drop other men from their lives.

Woman wants you to set boundaries-------> she wants you to drop other women---------> she wants you to commit--------> she wants an exclusive relationship with you.

A woman coming to a man saying she wants him to set boundaries is chick speak for: I don't know where are relationship is right now, so I want him to tell me.

Zekko, I feel you may be in the same camp as AS. You've been together with this woman for 10+ years. Obviously this wasn't a fly by night relationship. I'm not sure how everything progressed before the boundaries were set, but I have a feeling she was cutting out other men on her own anyways, and the boundary issue was just a technicality that she may have already set for herself anyways.

Now, rascal99v made this thread here: Letting your girlfriend hang out with other men (orbiters) is a stupid thing to do and he makes some very good points about women cheating, however, it seems he may have just been looking at the surface of the whole issue.
He later drops this statement:

Highly interested women will cut out other dudes on their own. My girlfriend did just that. She had no need for other men in her life except for me. I didn't even need to set a boundary. That was what she decided on her own.

His logic: I have a good relationship-----> my gf doesn't have orbiters------> to have a good relationship women shouldn't have orbiters-------> at the beginning of the relationship this boundary needs to be set.

But couldn't his logic have been this?: I have a good relationship-----> my gf cut out her orbiters on her own-----> to have a good relationship women should cut out orbiters on their own------> before getting into a relationship, women need to cut out orbiters on their own

He's making statements from personal experience, what he's seen and experienced himself. Now, myself and a few others come in and tell him he's wrong. Wrong? But that is his personal experience!!! Is he lying?? No, I feel, he's simply mis-interpreting.

What women say should be taken with a grain a salt. What they do should be what matters. Therefore when a woman says: "okay, in order to be with you, I will now cut out all orbiters." <----- This statement from her shouldn't mean a goddam thing.

If they were going to cut out orbiters anyways, they will cut them out. If they weren't going to cut them out, then give it some time, those orbiters will be back.

Now, OP's post is about attraction. Women will cheat when their attraction for her bf wains. This is where the whole mindset of letting a woman do what she want comes in. If a woman wants to regularly see other men when she could be spending time with you, then her attraction is not high enough for you. And you should not be committing to this woman. Simple as that. What can you do? You could possibly increase attraction. How do you do that? One way is to do what this guy says on this forum here:

http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread....ith-a-guy-she-used-to-****&highlight=orbiters

The thread topic is not quite the same as what we're discussing, but it's along the same lines.

The bolded part is what I feel is one option for you:

lots of red flags, almost all of them on your side

you're insecure and jealous and this is pushing your chick away

Instead of trying to control and chain her so that she doesn't run away, become a man who she's very attracted to, and pulls her in like a magnet (even though she's free to leave). I know this sounds very vague but here's some concrete steps:

1. you're only 19, the world is out there for you to conquer. There will be other chicks, stop worrying about losing this one, find what you want to do with your life (besides chicks) and start building a better man out of you

2. get your own chick orbiters, who will make your GF feel jealous

3. come to an acceptance that this LTR is gong down, probably soon. You're frame is totally ****ed up and it will take some time before you fix it. Chances are higher that it will work better with the next chick, than to salvage this relationship. The sooner you come to peace with this outcome, the less hurt you'll go through when it falls apart

-M

Now OP in this this^ thread was very insecure, and hopefully most posters chiming in here will realize that that is not the way to act. Another poster makes this statement:

Her phone is off-limits to you as yours is to her. Don't check it ever - that way you don't have to worry about stuff like this. And once you start checking it, you'll KEEP checking it, which just stokes the fire of jealousy and insecurity.

"stokes the fire of jealousy and insecurity"

...stokes....

I feel there is a gray area in this boundary issue. As in AS's and zekko's case the boundaries, I feel, were already in place, however the woman, or the man, felt more comfortable with it out in the open. That may not be the case, however, if a woman is truly giving up something she doesn't want to give up i.e. genuine male friends. Then your relationship better be very strong for it to last. Now, in some of the other poster's cases, I feel that the women weren't ready to cut out orbiters/male friends....meaning, if they didn't want to do it.

Two different scenarios, two different cases, and two different mindsets. One is doing it out of a simple rule:

Scenario 1:
Man: "you know, now that we're together, it means that you shouldn't hang out with other men on your own."
Woman: "oh yeah, for sure, I know that silly!"
Man: "just checking "

Now, this^ is pretty much harmless, unless, she does have longterm guy friends that she keeps in touch with. And to flatly tell her to cut them out, well that could get your relationship started off on the wrong foot IMO. But seeing them one on one....dangerous ground? I guess that's your call, but I'd rather handle that one on a case by case basis.

Scenario 2:
Man: ""you know, now that we're together, it means that you shouldn't hang out with other men on your own."
Woman: "no other men? those guys are harmless. blah blah blah, gerble, garble" Well, what about...blah blah blah? *ponders the issue* okay"

In this scenario, she is not ready to get rid of orbiters, and is completely different from scenario 1. It's also a slippery slope, on both sides.

 

[Jaylan]

You claim this is not a hate post on the "CWAF" crowd. Yet you have made up an acronym specifically to shame and insult men who set boundaries. I certainly do not consider myself a "CWAF", because I am certainly not "constantly worried about fidelity". If my girlfriend cheats on me, that's on her, easy come easy go. I've had enough women come and go throughout my life that I'm not going to work up a sweat over it.

Now, regarding cheating. My boundary is that my girlfriend should not go out one to one with other males. That is not to prevent her from cheating. To me, if she goes out one on one with other men, that IS cheating. To me. I'm sure YMMV.

I don't care if she talks to other men, I don't care if she texts them, talks to them on Facebook, goes out in a group with some men in it, I don't even care if she flirts with some dude. Why not, I will flirt with girls sometimes. But I draw the line with her spending time one on one with them. I don't care about theories about friendzones, beta orbiters, sexless males, whatever. To me, that's cheating, and disrespecting the relationship. You are free to disapprove as much as you want, but that's my boundary.

This is how I feel exactly.

OP, youre misinterpreting how many men on this forum feel about male friends. I dont mind if my gf has male friends. I have female friends myself. What I would mind is her hanging out 1 on 1 with them. I wouldnt do this with my chick friends when Im in a relationship. And I do this out of respect for my partner and our relationship.

She can talk to other males, she can hang out in groups that include men. But 1 on 1? Nah uh. Its about respect.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

This is how I feel exactly.

OP, youre misinterpreting how many men on this forum feel about male friends. I dont mind if my gf has male friends. I have female friends myself. What I would mind is her hanging out 1 on 1 with them. I wouldnt do this with my chick friends when Im in a relationship. And I do this out of respect for my partner and our relationship.

She can talk to other males, she can hang out in groups that include men. But 1 on 1? Nah uh. Its about respect.

Jaylan and zekko, I understand where you two are coming from. There are women that I hang out with in social settings(with other people around) that I could consider "friends". With some of these women, there is an underlying sexual current involved. We've never done anything, other than something social, but get us one on one in the right atmosphere....something could happen. To be fair, I should not hang out with these women one on one if either of us were in a committed relationship. Now, I do have one really good female friend, that I used to be roommates with, nothing ever happened between us, and quite frankly, it's hard for me to imagine that anything could, she is attractive though. Now, if either of our significant others told either of us that we couldn't hang out together one on one (which we've done a gazillion times), we would both tell our significant others to go kick rocks. And in my mind, my significant other would seem insecure and jealous and controlling for saying something like that.

 

[Jaylan]

Id have no problem telling a woman to go kick rocks herself if she thinks its ok to hang out alone with other men. I dont care if the guy is an old friend or roommate. Ive seen how these things workout, and Ive hooked up with friends before...so Im not stupid enough to believe things can 100% never happen.

I said in another thread that I have a good female friend I dont view sexually, and that Ive gone out dancing with, but we never flirt. We basically wing each other when weve hung out. That said, I would have no problem ceasing one on one contact if I was dating a quality woman. Its out of respect...and theres really no good reason for me to be in those situations with another woman while Im committed.

 

[SgtSplacker]

I never worry about any female i'm with cheating.

If she want's to go out with a guy one on one that's fine with me.

Now I can go out with girls one on one and it's all good.

I can tell you right now POF is full of profiles of girls that don't want ONS's. And full of profiles of guys that do. It's like trading a $100 for a dime, don't be stupid.

Banging some dude for a female does not hold the same value as a guy being able to do the same thing whenever he wants. And she has just set this precedent not you...

And in the end if your female is capable of cheating she will. No manner of blocking or permission is going to stop her. And if I take a girl out, you know i'm hitting it at no consequence to me. While she is just played like a slvt by dudes over and over again. She's getting dogged, while i'm doggin some fresh poon.

Granted I don't date extremely slvtty women, not thinking she's incapable of cheating or anything. But i'm just sayin she probably wont if she's proper LTR material to begin with.

I let a GF on mine go out with her guy friend before. Wanna know what I did the next day to her? put on a condom... you can imagine how that went over. She never did it again.

 

[AttackFormation]

That seems like a windmill crusade to me.

- If you don't care what the outcome is, why are you laying out an ultimatum about it? to me it seems you do care about the outcome, you're just counting on her caring more than you do. An easily missed but important difference as compared to not caring at all or only to the point that it's gonna be a bit of a hassle replacing her if something happens, like replacing a flat tire.
- Why is it a problem that she has male interaction at all besides you? aren't you the guy she wants?
- Aren't you tempting her into seeking out other guys by making it forbidden to do so as well as making her have to get all her male "needs" from you only? like I said in my opening post I think you're setting up windmill targets by putting yourself in conflict instead of coexistence with other men.

I think it's setting these kind of controlling "boundaries" which is closer to scarcity, because of the simple logic that an abundant resource is not as much in need of this kind of "protection" as a scarce one. If her loss wasn't an inconvenience to you then you wouldn't care about it, that you say you don't care and that you have the power and such does not change what's actually being done.

Now if what you're actually talking about is that you simply want her to drop her other plates if you do, that I can better understand.

 

[JoeMarron]

Know your value, know you are the prize, and set the price for your commitment. If you do not know your own value, she certainly will not.

This has been explained in this debate countless times. Why dudes still aren't getting it is beyond me.

Why is it a problem that she has male interaction at all besides you? aren't you the guy she wants?

Like zekko and jaylan said it's about respect. Who cares what the reason is though. It's not about control. A man should set whatever price for his commitment that he wants, whether it be no one on one time with other men or something as silly as not wanting her to wear polka dot socks. A man who is the prize, a man who can have women in abundance will never be afraid to demand the type of relationship he wants.

 

[Trump]

Having standards is NOT a scarcity mindset. Not following your standards for fear you may look "AFC" or "lose attraction" is scarcity mindset.

Know your value, know you are the prize, and set the price for your commitment. If you do not know your own value, she certainly will not.

Danger, your posts are awesome and I follow what you are saying, but the issue is the Western law, culture, and society value women so much, that men are forced to value the women and be a little AFC in order to not be alone and raise a family. You are speaking so confidently because you are good at picking up girls and can have sex anytime you want. It's like a rich person telling a poor person: "don't worry, it's only $2,000, forget about it." For that person $2,000 is everything.

Yes you have to know your value, but is it worth being confident and strong and taking no crap, yet be single, or taking hits and being in a relationship? For me, I'll take the girlfriend + hits. At least then people know I can attract the opposite sex, don't view them as mythical creatures and delicate angels.

The value and image of finding someone and be married and have kids is more important for your image than being single yet confident. Now the question is, at what cost to your ego? In Asian cultures, the parents will sleep in the street if it means their kid will get their apartment in order to get married and give them grand kids. In North America, sponsors pay couples $20M a year to stay together, even though the wife may crush the guy at home. That's how important it is for their name, image and brand for him to be married. Would he, or anyone else, walk away for ego?

 

[In2theGame]

Damn what the fvck is this sh!t about letting your Woman hang out with other Men. I find it unreal how "accepting" this is with Men today however not totally surprised given the amount of emasculation and feminism in society. A MAN is territorial, a Leader is his natural state, a Fvcking rule setter when it comes Women, In other words, Thats My Rolex, My Wallet, My Money, My Car, My House and MY Woman. If she wants to go hang out with her male friends, then fine go right ahead but if you think im going to accept this, youve got another thing coming. If you think for one moment that her male "friends" wont make an attempt to go after your girl then your sadly mistaken especially if she is very attractive. The argument here against this is "Well, if she really loves you and is totally into you she wont do anything with another guy".... WRONG. As it has been preached here many times, Women are emotional and go by feeling in the moment. Remember that motto, "What have you done for me lately"? Its how she feels now, not yesterday or last week. If she hangs out with other guys and in that MOMENT he happens to make her laugh and spark an emotion in her.... she will begin to just think "he's cool" until it progresses into more because that male friend has sparked an emotional reaction in her. She may love you but that guy is in the right place at the right time saying the right things the right way.

Lets say its happy hour after work... she mentions shes going to the bar after work with her male friend/friends and texts you "I Love u, TTYL" You think ok cool no problem babe. Shes at the bar engaged into a conversation with a male friend.. Having some typical drinks... He's starting to make her laugh and making some light flirting..... deep down shes liking it and begins to feel attraction for him. Her logical brain is saying "this isnt right, i should be leaving" but her overpowering emotion is telling her to stay and flirt back. This is why if your GF cheats, The guy may feel good that he closed the deal with a hot girl but after her "moment" of hornyness is gone, she may cry and wonder "Omg what did i do!!!" or worse yet now have powerful feelings for him and wanting to leave you as she slowly distances herself with the "I think we need a break" The guy is left wondering WTF!? everything has been perfect between us. Little does he know, his little princess has had her emotional side sparked by another Man (he's just a friend she has argued). This is how it start.

Im not proud of it but i have done it myself, Friends have done it to other girls and we have had it done to us. My first serious LTR i didnt know any better and i let her hang out with her male friends... Later she wanted "space" it was because of the other guy (Male friend). When I met my second serious LTR, I set that sh!t straight that if she wanted to hang out with male friends than that was fine with me but dont fvcking bother calling me up afterwards, This caught her off guard and she respected that. She never crossed me or even suggested hangin with a male friend. One incident where i called her once and she told me she was downtown with her best friend and were hanging out with their old male friends.. "I said What!?" "She told me No babe relax they are just friends" I didnt give a fvck, I said stay there with them, i dont play that sh!t dont contact me back, dont bother. She jumped in a cab faster than the flash himself and begged for my forgiveness and they she will never do that again" I said "Listen go hang with your guy friends and your slut friend" She cried and said sorry. From that point she NEVER tried that sh!t with me again. 3 years later i became very lenient in letting her hang out with whoever she wants because she always told me how much she loved me and wanted to marry me... I found out after the sh!t hit the fan... She hooked up with a male friend she knew at a party. from my past posts, you guys know how fvcked up my breakup was.

Women are built to be led by Men because Women know that they cant control themselves. Men set the rules and restrictions. Of course feminism today teaches how empowering Women are and dont need men telling them what to do, That's a lie from the Devil himself. God made Woman to be servant to Man, Not necessarily a slave but her man's helper. Not go hanging out with other fvcking guys. As the serpent lured Eve into the apple and get Adam to accept it, Feminism lures women into that ideology bringing Men to accept it as well. Its pure garbage and this whole thing wont stop until every guy accepts being cuckolded and saying "hey its okay, Yea shes sleeping with him but that my wife so shes coming home to me" All the while Women will throw a FIT if your hanging out with other Women. Pick your balls up off the ground and put them back on and be Man and control your territory.

 

[zekko]

The real question is, why do you NEED to set the boundary. There are two answers, and both are right.

1.If a girl is truly interested in you, she would not *risk* losing you by cavorting with other men. However this is heavily dependent upon number two.
2.She has to know there is risk in losing you. She has to understand there is a boundary or she will do as she pleases when she pleases regardless of who it harms, because she does not know any better.

Let me emphasize #2 here. A lot of the people who are against settng boundaries are saying that she will cut out her orbiters on her own, so you shouldn't have to set boundaries.

The reason I don't agree with that is because not everyone agrees that there is a problem with a girl hanging out with other men. Many men and women think this is a normal, healthy thing that is to be not only expected, but encouraged. I used to hold this opinion myself when I was a young man who feared being labeled jealous and possessive. Because that was what I was told. To be considered a cool guy, I figured I had to be cool with it.

I later changed my mind on this, and I also found out to my surprise that many women did not agree with it either. We believe it is not as harmless as it is represented. But society at large pressures men and women to think that there is nothing wrong with it, just like they send out 1,000 other feminist and political correct messages.

Anyway, by telling the girl my expectations, that makes it clear which side of the fence I am sitting on. That way there are no misunderstandings should it come up later on. In some cases this liberates the woman from thinking she has to go along with the prevailing messages of western culture.

So basically I disagree with the idea that women will just instinctively know that they should cut out their orbiters, because they are encouraged by society to believe otherwise.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

I'm guessing a lot of the posters here didn't read that article by that guy Shark, that The Exception posted. Good article. Long article but he states the biggest reasoning for women cheating is simply ATTRACTION. Loss of attraction to her partner and/or a higher attraction for someone else. There's other factors involved of course, he brings up beta/alpha quite a bit.

This site has a lot of posters on it that have been cheated on. It's funny because usually when a poster first finds this site they learn about increasing attraction, becoming alpha, getting rid of neediness, clinginess, C&F, being a man, chick logic-i.e emotions, etc.

Then, it seems, when the boundaries topic comes up, posters seem to throw all of that out the window, and regress to a logical based beta POV. Keep reading before you lose your ****...

If Shark's article states the main reason for women cheating is due to ATTRACTION. Then how will setting boundaries increase ATTRACTION? For the sake of the argument, and men discussing this topic, that doesn't make sense.

The common reasoning is that if there were boundaries set, then my one true love wouldn't have cheated on me. It had nothing to do with my former self and/or my choice in a gf/wife (or even if you had a choice).

The fact that stated boundaries is the answer.....is sad. The fact that telling a woman not to see other men will do the trick is a joke.

If women work off of emotions then how will stating your boundaries have any effect?

I can see what's going to happen. There are going to be posters on here that will find the perfect girl, then they're going to set boundaries for her..... Hell, they may or maynot even go through all the proceeding "proactive" steps as well, keeping tabs on her FB accounts, picking her up and dropping her off from work, keyloggers, etc. Limit as many interactions as possible she can possibly have with men. Then, low and behold, she's going to cheat. Not because he didn't set enough boundaries, but because she had lost attraction to him. All of his efforts and work put in to keep her from cheating were futile. Then, he's going to snap, and it's going to be bad news.

You can say setting boundaries is just a price, or something she needs to know, or being a man, but it's just a more extreme version of hiring a Private Investigator......same lines.

Know your value, know you are the prize, and set the price for your commitment. If you do not know your own value, she certainly will not.

Know your value?? Do you have to tell her your value in order to know your value? Is that what you guys are saying? You tell her how important you are? Do you tell her you're the prize??

Tell her she can't see other men??

^This is an AFC/Beta thought process. And as far away from the core of ATTRACTION as you can get.

 

[zekko]

If Shark's article states the main reason for women cheating is due to ATTRACTION. Then how will setting boundaries increase ATTRACTION? For the sake of the argument, and men discussing this topic, that doesn't make sense.

Peaks, if you don't want to set boundaries, you don't have to, it's your life. Anyway, we're not talking about luring a girl into bed here, attraction will have long ago taken place by the time the topic of exclusivity comes up.

But I think you may be too hung up on the word "boundaries". Try thinking of it as explaining your "philosophy", instead. As I said, not everyone objects to their spouse or significant other spending one on one time with opposite gender friends. My best friend doesn't, for example (although his wife cheated on him with on of these "friends - but he still holds that opinion). How can she understand my philosophy on this if I don't let her know?

For some reason, PUAs are obsessed with not talking about anything, not answering questions, and keeping everything a mystery. If I was a Mormon who believed in polygamy, shouldn't I let her know about that? If I was a Jehovah's Witness, shouldn't she know before we get together?

To me, the idea of entering an exclusive relationship without even discussing your expectations of such sounds like utter madness. You wouldn't sign a contract with a cell phone company without knowing the terms, would you? But you would do something much more important? Like getting married or entering into a LTR without discussing your expectations? That sounds utterly crazy to me.

You can say setting boundaries is just a price, or something she needs to know, or being a man, but it's just a more extreme version of hiring a Private Investigator......same lines

No it isn't, and it isn't even remotely similar. I really don't get where you are coming from here.

Come out and say it, Peaks. You do not have any objection if your girl hangs out one on one with other men. If you want to say it is beta to have a problem with that, at least approach the argument from that point, instead of being vague about it.

Tell her she can't see other men??

And again: I never told my girl she couldn't see other men. I told her I didn't have any interest in having a girlfriend who saw other men. I believe that's basically what Danger has been saying all along, too. It's a filtering process. There is a difference there. I don't know why you can't get that through your head.

 

[VikingKing]

And the mental circle jerk continues... fap aggressively

 

[JoeMarron]

when your value is high enough, you have the SMV to be able to set boundaries without losing her attraction.

Again, know your value and command the right price for it. When you have raised your value you can make demands because you are a superior product. It is no different than an HB9 setting her own price for the men who would chase her.

To me, the idea of entering an exclusive relationship without even discussing your expectations of such sounds like utter madness. You wouldn't sign a contract with a cell phone company without knowing the terms, would you? But you would do something much more important? Like getting married or entering into a LTR without discussing your expectations? That sounds utterly crazy to me.

And again: I never told my girl she couldn't see other men. I told her I didn't have any interest in having a girlfriend who saw other men. I believe that's basically what Danger has been saying all along, too. It's a filtering process. There is a difference there. I don't know why you can't get that through your head.

These quotes need to be posted in giant, flashing bold letters on the first page of every thread where this topic comes up. I don't understand how any man could argue with this.