A woman's 7 year secret

[Sinistar]

If I hypothetically had conceived him out of a marriage and went to have a faternity test done, they'd laugh me out of the hospital.

Uh, I think you meant to say fraternity test

Good stuff RT, but i'm not totally sold on the dichomoty good dad's vs good genes part. If we lived back in caveman days, you'd have me completely sold on the idea that the most potent genes are those that yield good-looking, confident, large brutes that possibly have a low brain cell count. However, I give women a bit more internal and subconscious credit that they recogize that in today's world, the best genes will yield higher IQs, along with looks and that physical size is of lesser importance. Further, lacking the ability to commit and stay focused on something (IE: a player) is a detrimental trait from a genetic standpoint, in my opinion, not an asset.

Thus, a good looking, smart, but perhaps AFC dad still has a very strong gene set. There are plenty of AFCs out there that make 6 figures easily and that's how you survive in today's world. Surely, the women of today know this? If she wanted a son that would struggle through school, the "pool guy" would be a great choice to screw * sarcasm *

Could you be missing the point here? I think the playa dude who screws women with wreckless abandon is actually an agent of human genetic preservation. He's more likely to impregnate women than the cuckolding AFC and thus there will be more offspring with those genes and thus humankind at least keeps on reproducing. Then the woman's instinctive drive to protect and raise her child kicks in. She'll go through chumps left and right to feed that instinctive need. Society shuns the first part of the equation (ie the "irresponsible playa/jerk types") while literally embracing mother's choices no matter how poor or irresponsible simple logic might conclude.

Regarding the "good looking, smart, but perhaps AFC dad still has a very strong gene set". My point would be, if there were lots of guys that matched this description and were raising kids that are not their own, then eventually this type of man will be genetically weeded out - right? The irony of survival is not always easy to accept.

Genetically and instinctively we're still in the caveman days, like or not! And the realization of this is actually one of the steps an AFC must take on the path of awareness towards being a mature DJ.

 

[logicallefty]

By Law that is HIS child (biological or not).

This whole situation is sick, just sick.. :cuss:

In Illinois, the judges are so wacked outside of reality that they would probably order both men to pay the b***h child support, the biological father and the "thought I was the daddy" father.. This makes me want to look up old cases and see if this has ever happened.. I betcha money it has, and I bet it was in Illinois...

 

[azanon]

Could you be missing the point here?

We have a a few people here at this forum who confuse simple disagreement with not getting a point. I disagreed with RT, or at the very least consider the phenemenon possibly explained by a myraid of factors, genes being only one of them.

I carefully read RT's argument for it, as I just did yours. The points you guys are making are noted, yet I see no reason to modify my counteropinion. There is no correlation between the potency of AFC sperm and DJ sperm; naturally. So if a woman is banging a guy on the side, there's a reason for it. One can assume (as you and RT did) that the reason is strictly a subconscious desires for the best genes, which is certainly a valid hypothesis among many, but there are other possible explanations as well.

I tend to subscribe to occam's razor, so i might be more inclined to just simply think she wants to f*** more than one man, or maybe her LTR guy just isnt very good at f******, or doesnt like to f*** as much as she does. If this is the applicable reason, then that has exactly nothing to do with subsciously wanting the best genes. That is, unless men that have a tendancy to carefree f*** a lot of women have a strong positive correlation with being successful men in modern society. If there's any correlation with those two things, I'd think its negative actually.

(edit) I'm aware that RT's original discussion is coming from Darwinian thinking. While i'm all for Darwinian thinking, I think its important to realize that we humans are so smart, we tend to act in opposition to it because of our ability of conscious choice. As just a small example of this, poor families in America (that will have coorelation with lower intelligence) are having large families due to ignorance of proper birth control and tax incentives whereas some of the really intelligent parents who both work high level jobs are commonly and intentionally staving off pregnancies. Thus, the gene pool is actually worsening due to this.

 

[azanon]

This whole situation is sick, just sick.. :cuss:

In Illinois, the judges are so wacked outside of reality that they would probably order both men to pay the b***h child support, the biological father and the "thought I was the daddy" father.. This makes me want to look up old cases and see if this has ever happened.. I betcha money it has, and I bet it was in Illinois...

I'm assuming that if a woman gets pregnant while legally married, the biological father has no obligations whatsoever. I'm assuming that's true in every state, for the simple fact that the woman is 100% accoutable for it happening since she is, in fact, married.

I'd be interested in hearing if i'm wrong on this though?

 

[Latinoman]

I'm assuming that if a woman gets pregnant while legally married, the biological father has no obligations whatsoever. I'm assuming that's true in every state, for the simple fact that the woman is 100% accoutable for it happening since she is, in fact, married.

I'd be interested in hearing if i'm wrong on this though?

However...if the man gives the child his last name (or even go YEARS fulfilling the role of the father), then in the eyes of the court...he is a dad.

You see? The State's purpose is to look for what's "best for the child" (e.g. find a way to keep the State from supporting the child).

 

[azanon]

However...if the man gives the child his last name (or even go YEARS fulfilling the role of the father), then in the eyes of the court...he is a dad.

You see? The State's purpose is to look for what's "best for the child" (e.g. find a way to keep the State from supporting the child).

I'm agreeing with you Latioman. The outside adulterer male can't give the child his last name even if he wanted to. It would the married man that did so. I think you maybe misread my post?

My previous post on this was talking about child support. I'm saying the guy that knocked her up outside the marriage should have no legal requirement to pay child support in any state because she's married, and I would hope her divorcing her husband wouldnt change that either.

 

[azanon]

I'm glad its that way in America, wayward. Otherwise, how would us DJs benefit from it? The one who gets the short end of the stick in America is the AFC, not all men.

For every man that has his wife or girlfriend f****** some other man, there has to be the man that's doing the f******, right? =p

 

[wayword]

I'm glad its that way in America, wayward. Otherwise, how would us DJs benefit from it? The one who gets the short end of the stick in America is the AFC, not all men.

For every man that has his wife or girlfriend f****** some other man, there has to be the man that's doing the f******, right? =p

BS. Every man gets the short end of the stick eventually. Doesn't matter who he is.

Even mPUAs will tell you this. The more women they fvck, the less they trust them. They don't avoid LTRs simply because they like playing the field...but also because they can't find any women they could trust enough to be in one with.

Women see men like cars. One night she might feel like driving a Porsche, the next night a Humvee. So, there is always going to be something you lack that another man has. And without morals or social barriers to stop her...what will? Generally, just her old age, biological clock, being broke or an STD.

 

[azanon]

BS. Every man gets the short end of the stick eventually. Doesn't matter who he is.

I think i'd consider amending that to "the majority" of men, and that's only if you're including non-marriages. In marriages, its actually well under 50% that cheat; both men and women. There have been countless anonymous polls run on that to confirm it. The cheating rate in marriages actually runs just shy of 30% for men, and 25% for women. In other words, we're actually the ones that cheat more. Naturally, its our nature to do so (see RT's eloquent discussion on darwinian theory as proof).

If you really want a LTR or marriage, don't be so cynical. There are ones out there that actually wont cheat on you. Try a church. Some of them shake at the knees at the thought of defying "God".

I'd bet my life on it that my wife hasn't cheated. I bet RT would too.

 

[Sinistar]

If you really want a LTR or marriage, don't be so cynical. There are ones out there that actually wont cheat on you. Try a church. Some of them shake at the knees at the thought of defying "God".

I disagree. Be cynical (if that is how you see it). Wayword shares much wisdom.

And the church bit, come on dude. Yeah, maybe a few of the younger ones are the naive virgin types. Otherwise, you're on a one-way track to reformed church slvts. They think their God can make all those cases of infidelity, drunken s3x romps, sleeping with their guys best friend, etc all just go away. The reality is that only they can come to terms with their past. Ever wonder why some of these church girls are so wild in the sack - that experience had to come from someplace They're just as doomed to repeat & fail because inside they don't believe or trust themselves anymore.

I'd bet my life on it that my wife hasn't cheated. I bet RT would too.

I don't think you'll catch too many guys on this board betting their lives on the fidelity of ar woman?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I was recently watching an animal planet special on dogs and cats that compared their "domestic" behaviors with those of their wild counterparts, like preadatory cats and wolves. Not so surpisingly a dog will instinctively do circles and tramp down his bed in exactly the same fashion as a wolf will his sleeping area. So too will cats cover up their own excrement, burying it so predators wont catch their scent so readily, just like house cats will. To us, these and many other behaviors seem cute and unnecessary for domesticated animals to habitually perform. One would think that after literally thousands of years of evolution, as well as selective breeding, these behaviors would be less prominent or entirely "bred out" of them, but this is obviously not the case. They are hardwired, unlearned behaviors that are imprinted into them from birth that proved to be valuable in their survival.

Using this analogy, how much more complex are our behaviors and the motivations behind them? There are many global studies that compare physical features in attraction across culture and race for both sexes that show very frequent commonalities for physical attraction. Broad shoulders, squared jawline and chest to waist ratio in men and symetry of facial features, breast size and hips to waist ratios in women are universal attractors for each respective sex. In fact the very common propensity for women to exclude men shorter than themselves from their consideration for intimacy is specifically derived from what evolutioanry psychologists call vestigial sexual selection.

Bear in mind this is attraction and how our subconscious interprets external cues for prompting desire. You see a naked woman in Playboy and the result is a hard on. External prompt, biological response, pure and simple. That's a quick and easy one, but there's a variety of other reponses that occur too - quickening of heart rate, release of hormones and endorphines, dialation of pupils, flushing of skin, etc. Again this is a reaction that was unlearned and part of our chemical make up.

Just like this there are cues that make a Good Genes Dad and a Good Father Dad. You can hold human beings up to a higher standard, but biology will trump conviction every time it has the opportunity to do so. The devil is in the details and the behavior will bear out what they are.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I tend to subscribe to occam's razor,..

Ah yes, the famous Razor of William of Occam; "the simplest answer is usually the correct one" or the "simpler the answer the better." Be careful of adopting and expounding a life philosophy based on a 14th century mathematician's short cut to solving what passed for advanced mathematics at the time.

 

[wayword]

If you really want a LTR or marriage, don't be so cynical. There are ones out there that actually wont cheat on you. Try a church. Some of them shake at the knees at the thought of defying "God".

But that's not her really being loyal to you, but "God."

I consider that an artificial social constraint like Islam. Why do you think man created these memes?

Yes, there are some girls who won't cheat (mostly religious ones), but that is more due to THEM than YOU. In other words, they don't care if you're and AFC or DJ, they simply won't cheat on whoever they're with due to their own beliefs & values. Similarly, a cheater will cheat on you whether you are a DJ or AFC.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

In marriages, its actually well under 50% that cheat; both men and women. There have been countless anonymous polls run on that to confirm it. The cheating rate in marriages actually runs just shy of 30% for men, and 25% for women.

Do you have a source for this statistic?

Try a church. Some of them shake at the knees at the thought of defying "God".

Also, I wouldn't be so certain about that.

50% of all Christian men and 20% of all Christian women are addicted to pornography

Biology trumps conviction.

 

[azanon]

I don't think you'll catch too many guys on this board betting their lives on the fidelity of ar woman?

I dont know too many real DJs either. I think there's a correlation there.

 

[azanon]

Using this analogy, how much more complex are our behaviors and the motivations behind them?

That exactly plays to my point, why we're not as subject to Darwinian processes. We don't have simply more developed instincts. If anything, we're less instinct driven and more driven by conscious decision; much of which doesn't give a crap about Mr. Charles Darwin.

Thus, we should be the least prone of all species to act according to predictable behavior.

Azanon

 

[azanon]

Ah yes, the famous Razor of William of Occam; "the simplest answer is usually the correct one" or the "simpler the answer the better." Be careful of adopting and expounding a life philosophy based on a 14th century mathematician's short cut to solving what passed for advanced mathematics at the time.

I have been convinced for some time now that you may just be too smart for your own good, RT. I mean that as much of a compliment as i do anything.

You want to believe its some deep, complicated explanation so you expand on darwinian thought, when the real reason a woman might be f******* some other man might be simply because she wants a little bit of strange. And any resulting pregnancy, is merely an accident that, if anything, likely goes against darwinian though since its likely some DJ loser that struggles with spelling his name.

The basic truth of Occam's Razor hasn't been rejected even to this day, you should know. The key word there is "usually", not always. If you want to go with the odds, think simple. That's not going to be easy for someone smart like you, RT.

 

[azanon]

But that's not her really being loyal to you, but "God."

I consider that an artificial social constraint like Islam. Why do you think man created these memes?

Yes, there are some girls who won't cheat (mostly religious ones), but that is more due to THEM than YOU. In other words, they don't care if you're and AFC or DJ, they simply won't cheat on whoever they're with due to their own beliefs & values. Similarly, a cheater will cheat on you whether you are a DJ or AFC.

To be honest, i dont care why my wife wont cheat. I guess if i were more insecure, i would dwell on something like that. I just know that she simply wont do it.

But yeah, sure, i'll buy that its an artificial constraint. All i'm saying is dont assume there aren't American women out there that wont cheat, regardless of the underlying reason.

 

[azanon]

Also, I wouldn't be so certain about that.

When i get some extra time, i'll try to track it down. I didn't make it up. If i were being truthful about it, the figures struck me as being a tad high. I know a lot of married folks, and it doesnt seem like 30% of them cheat.

50% of all Christian men and 20% of all Christian women are addicted to pornography

Biology trumps conviction.[/QUOTE]

You might have to get me on track here; are we talking about infidelity or viewing pornography?

 

[wayword]

To be honest, i dont care why my wife wont cheat. I guess if i were more insecure, i would dwell on something like that. I just know that she simply wont do it.

But yeah, sure, i'll buy that its an artificial constraint. All i'm saying is dont assume there aren't American women out there that wont cheat, regardless of the underlying reason.

Yes, well my point is simply that you will eventually date a non-"religious" girl with no "values" who may even have been a habitual cheater. Unless you are strictly dating the rare breed of moralled girls...it is thus only a matter of time before you date a cheater and a matter of time before that cheater tries to cheat on you... It's a numbers game and your card will come up eventually if you date enough girls (and in this country, it doesn't take too many).