A warning about getting too caught up in SS/ DJ

[GoodForm]

Let me tell you a story of a mate of mine. He was your typical nice guy who got messed around by girls. Down in the dumps he changed like how all of you guys might in his pursuit of woman. He became the confident, ****y, funny etc etc guy that most woman are attracted to and things went from then. At one stage, he was telling me how he had a few HB's he was dating and sleeping with and even more he was texting. I would like to add here, these HB's were the real deals: the 8's and 9's etc. His social life was great, he was working and he had woman left, right and centre. Yet it's all gone down hill.

Recently he's told me how he hates who he is, how he just can't find a nice girl and how he is sick of messing woman around. He is even contemplating a move overseas to live with family elsewhere and start a new life there.

This got me thinking. Is this not what every aspiring DJ wants? To have woman just jumping at your feet? Yet he forgot one very important thing in finding happiness in himself and not from others. I guess he neglected every other aspect of his life in his pursuit of woman.

In my part I'm not the greatest of DJ's. Heck even my 'progress' has stalled as I now do what makes me happy; furthering myself professionally, setting myself up for the future while going out and doing other hobbies. I'm even envious of the woman my mate gets and kick myself sometimes wishing I'd gotten a girls number I met or why I'm still single. Yet deep down, I'm content.

So this comes to the last part of my thread and that is to the budding DJ's reading this. Take PUA, DJ etc for it's face value. To make you a better person. Don't focus so much on woman. Woman will come when you look after yourself. Balance is essential in life as it is here. Remember to focus just as much on your career or education and other hobbys and persuits. Don't focus entirely on woman because when you do, you'll find yourself one day wondering those countless hours spent dating, messaging or even all night partys waking up next to a HB you don't know and was it worth it.

 

[Jariel]

I'm starting to have my doubts lately too. The self improvement advice and motivation that this forum offers is truly invaluable and I think a lot of guys here give great advice when it comes to overcoming rejection and break ups.

However, when it comes attracting women and building healthy relationships, majority of DJs and PUAs are complete failures - myself included.

I have often credited DJ/PUA techniques and behaviours for my ability to attract women and have sex, but in reality, this is just down to being decent looking, in good shape and confident. I've got the same results without neg hitting and ****y and funny, and without push/pull and all the rest of it. In fact, the more natural and less PUA I act on a date, the better it turns out to be.

As for relationships, the sad fact is that there are only a handful of guys on this forum that have succeeded in this area.

As much as I appreciate this forum for helping me improve myself and my life, I'm starting to realise that if you want advice on relationships, then single guys with commitment issues, insecurities and a history of failed relationships are not the best people to go to, and unfortunately that's exactly what the seduction/PUA community consists of.

Lately, I'm looking at videos of Mystery and his like, desperately seeking approval, overanalysing and deluding themselves, and I'm realising that these are sad, pathetic men. And yet when I look at the average guy who most of us would consider unenlightened "AFCs", they are maintaining long, healthy relationships and leading contented lives with no effort and no analysing.

 

[bigneil]

It depends on what your goals are. For the most part our goals are 3 month relationships here. Don't go past the mark you aim for (Rules of Power). Beyond a 3 month relationship we need a different forum.

 

[OnTheWayUp]

As much as I appreciate this forum for helping me improve myself and my life, I'm starting to realise that if you want advice on relationships, then single guys with commitment issues, insecurities and a history of failed relationships are not the best people to go to, and unfortunately that's exactly what the seduction/PUA community consists of.

Jariel, I very much respect your right to have your opinion on this one and often rate your advice as some of the best posted on SS, but in this particular case I could not disagree more strongly.

I would neither be in or be able to sustain the relationship I am now in without the advice I have received from the community. Appreciating that there are a lot of girls out there and that most of them are very similar is the principle tenet I have acquired from SS, and this knowledge made my dating life skyrocket. Whereas prior to learning about the community, I would target one "special girl" at a time (often without making any moves on said girl), I now embrace a philosophy of abundance. Some people might call juggling multiple girls "game playing," but I believe it is essential to surviving in the modern "dating scene," such that it is. The capacity to date or be romantically interested in multiple people simultaneously is at best hushed up by society, if not actively repudiated (see Disney, romcoms and social condemnation of player-types).

With regards to my current gf, learning the above has benefited me in two main ways.

Firstly, and most importantly, dating lots of girls (50+ first dates in the year before I met her) has given me many insights into what I like in a girl and what I want to avoid at all costs. For example, the old me would have found it hard to reject a girl who disrespected me repeatedly (in whatever way) but was very physically attractive; this is no longer the case. Some of the things that my gf has over the competition are: humour, the ability to sustain a conversation, intelligence, femininity, dress sense, interest in the same music as me, same religious views as me.

Secondly, learning "game" (or whatever you want to call it) means that I know what to do to keep her interest. I don't hang out with her all the time, and sometimes reject her requests to hang out specifically because I don't want to appear needy. I tease her a lot; our conversations vary from the intellectual to the completely humourous/ childish/ non-sensical. I find ways to subtly let her know that she has female competition for my interest. I reward her when she displays positive behaviour (wanting to see me, initiating sex, saying she misses me, being affectionate, investing in our dates, spending money on us etc). I mix up what I do in the bedroom and how I am around her, ranging from the typical beta "making love" style who gives lots of compliments to the @sshole who negs her aggressively and spanks her while doing her from behind.

The above is all a very far cry from the "mainstream man" who, from what I have seen from other men, finds and sustains relationships by a combination of:

1) Luck, beneficial context
2) The girl feeling the effect of her biological clock and wanting to settle down with a provider-type
3) Sacrificing sex in favour of providing for her and her family (my dad is the perfect example of this). An AFC relationship might last a long time, but can we objectively deem it a success (or indeed a relationship) if the physical aspect is not present?
4) Most significantly: making a virtue out of necessity by clinging onto the first girl who opens her legs for him, because he himself either has no other options or fails to recognise that other women exist

Of course, as with all things, knowledge of game must be seen within the context of a balanced life. To refer back to the OP, if you solely focus on women, you can obviously expect your career, friends, your body and hobbies to fall by the wayside.

 

[Packers2010]

Lately, I'm looking at videos of Mystery and his like, desperately seeking approval, overanalysing and deluding themselves, and I'm realising that these are sad, pathetic men. And yet when I look at the average guy who most of us would consider unenlightened "AFCs", they are maintaining long, healthy relationships and leading contented lives with no effort and no analysing.

i don't even watch videos of Mystery, just because the ones i have seen are him just doing OUTER game. i'm more of a Tyler Inner game kind of guy.

i mean learning how to to all the " tricks" is good. just another tool in the toolbox. but when i can't open how is that going to help me?

 

[zekko]

I'm starting to have my doubts lately too. The self improvement advice and motivation that this forum offers is truly invaluable and I think a lot of guys here give great advice when it comes to overcoming rejection and break ups.

However, when it comes attracting women and building healthy relationships, majority of DJs and PUAs are complete failures - myself included.

I have often credited DJ/PUA techniques and behaviours for my ability to attract women and have sex, but in reality, this is just down to being decent looking, in good shape and confident. I've got the same results without neg hitting and ****y and funny, and without push/pull and all the rest of it. In fact, the more natural and less PUA I act on a date, the better it turns out to be.

I agree the self improvement and motivational aspects of this forum are excellent. Also things like keeping the frame, abundance mentality, always being able to walk away, knowing you're the prize, inner game things like that are invaluable.

The "tips and tricks" type of stuff I have less respect for. Generally speaking, the more "gimmicky" something is, the less important it is. And some of it is just ridiculous.
Also, I think the big focus on bad boys, jerks, and @ssholes is completely overblown. That stuff is okay as a way to teach, but it shouldn't be taken literally.

In place of the "tricks", I agree with you, be more natural. Be confident, be comfortable in your own skin (be comfortable with who you are), have the courage to be yourself, that's what's effective. I don't mean be yourself "the guy who's afraid of women". Build yourself up into a strong, successful man, and be that self. Be confident and relaxed enough around women so that you are comfortable being yourself. That's where your real charm lies.

 

[Man of Awesome]

In place of the "tricks", I agree with you, be more natural. Be confident, be comfortable in your own skin (be comfortable with who you are), have the courage to be yourself, that's what's effective. I don't mean be yourself "the guy who's afraid of women". Build yourself up into a strong, successful man, and be that self. Be confident and relaxed enough around women so that you are comfortable being yourself. That's where your real charm lies.

Yeah, I agree. Pick whatever feels good and natural, but don't overdo it. I am pretty comfortable around women myself, but have just noticed that I don't have to be so darn deep and "neutral" all the time. Like hey, I can actually flirt with the ladies too, who knew! : D

 

[MM92]

Jariel, I very much respect your right to have your opinion on this one and often rate your advice as some of the best posted on SS, but in this particular case I could not disagree more strongly.

I would neither be in or be able to sustain the relationship I am now in without the advice I have received from the community. Appreciating that there are a lot of girls out there and that most of them are very similar is the principle tenet I have acquired from SS, and this knowledge made my dating life skyrocket.

:cheer:

 

[shizz702]

In the end I think the self improvement factors this forum preaches is what it is really all about.

If you seek happiness in women you are doomed to failure.

You have to find it within.

Focus on yourself: career, health, hobbies, social life, and the women come naturally.

 

[nightcrawler]

the reason your friend feels bad is because deep down he's a dork and he knows it...and he hates the false bravado and persona he has to put on in order to get girls.

that's why this site is so harmful...it gives men the OK on putting on a false mask, in hopes that someday, they become said mask, and that mask cures them of any insecurity or shortcomings they might have.

the more you deny to yourself who you really are, the more depressed you are gonna become. If you can't ruly BE yourself, YOUR true self, then you will never be happy with anything...because how can you be happy when you can't be yourself?

 

[loveshogun]

how can you be happy when you can't be yourself?

Good point - you can't be happy if you can't be yourself.

But how many people really know who they are, deep down?

Let's be careful using the phrase "be yourself."

Cause there was a time, not all that long ago, where "being myself" meant I'd eat whatever the hell I wanted, not have any friends because I was too afraid to talk to anyone, stay home and play video games, and then jerk off twelve times before bed.

That's who I was when I was in high school.

Don't get me wrong - there is a base set of motivations and dreams that we all have deep down that helps to define us.

But, most of us don't consciously know what that is, and it take YEARS of trial and error to find out. You need to make mistakes. You need to push yourself to do more than you THINK you can, because what you THINK has little to do with reality until you get enough experience under your belt.

I'm a dancer and a writer at heart. You know when I finally decided to get over my shyness and try either of them? When I was 20. I would have never dreamed of trying either until one day I decided that "just being myself" didn't mean a whole lot because I didn't even know what I wanted to be.

I teach dance now, and I've seen hundreds of other people who swore they had no rhythm, no chance, and no desire to dance become really f*cking good - like, nationally ranked good. All because someone was there to push them a little further than they thought they could go each time.

In order to find out the boundaries of who you really are, you must always be pushing them. Only then can you truly "be yourself."

 

[LostAndConfused]

Sometimes I wonder if it has all been worth it. Sometimes I really question the caddish path I've taken.

Then I look at pictures saved on my phone and computer.

Then I read some nasty texts sent from that girl next door.

Yeah, I've done it right.

 

[Chamber36]

I came here to iron out the kinks in my game. I only considered the kinks very minor and I didn't really see any huge problems in my game.

So now after reading a bunch of books, I know more about the societal frame(the matrix) that we live in. I can see that I had many problems which I wasn't aware of. Mainly complying too quickly.

The moment I realised I could please a woman by telling her "no" was really the moment I had a big change. Now I feel good every time I tell a female "no".

You can't get cought up in their self-entitlement issues. Because once you're sort of detached from the matrix the self-entitlement issues may appall you even more.

Also it's important to go out in lots of different venues to get an idea of the diversity of females there are. Not all women are b*tches.

 

[f283000]

Recently he's told me how he hates who he is, how he just can't find a nice girl and how he is sick of messing woman around. He is even contemplating a move overseas to live with family elsewhere and start a new life there.

He wants to be his true self but being his true self turns women off (being a nice guy).

Don't we all have this problem? Nothing really special about it.

 

[yuppaz]

the reason your friend feels bad is because deep down he's a dork and he knows it...and he hates the false bravado and persona he has to put on in order to get girls.

that's why this site is so harmful...it gives men the OK on putting on a false mask, in hopes that someday, they become said mask, and that mask cures them of any insecurity or shortcomings they might have.

the more you deny to yourself who you really are, the more depressed you are gonna become. If you can't ruly BE yourself, YOUR true self, then you will never be happy with anything...because how can you be happy when you can't be yourself?

That is full of win ^^^^^^

 

[wait_out]

This got me thinking. Is this not what every aspiring DJ wants? To have woman just jumping at your feet?

No... you want women who make you happy, jumping at your feet. And you make those women happy, so it makes everyone's life better.

Happiness, balance, love, health.... where is the problem exactly?

 

[nightcrawler]

Good point - you can't be happy if you can't be yourself.

But how many people really know who they are, deep down?

Let's be careful using the phrase "be yourself."

Cause there was a time, not all that long ago, where "being myself" meant I'd eat whatever the hell I wanted, not have any friends because I was too afraid to talk to anyone, stay home and play video games, and then jerk off twelve times before bed.

That's who I was when I was in high school.

Don't get me wrong - there is a base set of motivations and dreams that we all have deep down that helps to define us.

But, most of us don't consciously know what that is, and it take YEARS of trial and error to find out. You need to make mistakes. You need to push yourself to do more than you THINK you can, because what you THINK has little to do with reality until you get enough experience under your belt.

I'm a dancer and a writer at heart. You know when I finally decided to get over my shyness and try either of them? When I was 20. I would have never dreamed of trying either until one day I decided that "just being myself" didn't mean a whole lot because I didn't even know what I wanted to be.

I teach dance now, and I've seen hundreds of other people who swore they had no rhythm, no chance, and no desire to dance become really f*cking good - like, nationally ranked good. All because someone was there to push them a little further than they thought they could go each time.

In order to find out the boundaries of who you really are, you must always be pushing them. Only then can you truly "be yourself."

your eating habits and daily routines don't define you as a person.

 

[Crissco]

This thread actually hit something in me because I can see where your coming from and im having somewhat of a similar issue.

Like everyone said, there are certain advice on this forum that is golden. Plus the fact its always good to get other peoples opinions.

It all comes down to you tho, as the individual finding what makes you happy. Have that clear goal in mind in what you want, and take it, conquer it.

Remember when you were a kid, you saw something you wanted it, if you got you where the happiest person in the world and if you didnt you got upset. Alot of people are still like that, there just little kids with an adult body. Thats why you have to go for what you want and dont let anything stop you.

Then look at marraige, how many people are un-happy, divorced..Then how many people are happy having a great marriage. Or atleast by there own standards. I bet its about 50-50 for each(Not even thinking of statistics bc there bull**** usually)

Our generation has become, lazy, over thinkers, chronic complainers, wants everything handed to them age. Thats not the way it works, i bet if more people worked hard for waht they wanted and had accomplishments in there life, they would turn completely around. Isnt hard work what civilization was built on, right?

You get my point, but the truth is like you said in your first post OP it all comes down to balance and finding that happy medium.

/Rant

 

[Chamber36]

your eating habits and daily routines don't define you as a person.

No but if you keep living life on the safe side you won't really know what you're capable of.

 

[nightcrawler]

No but if you keep living life on the safe side you won't really know what you're capable of.

doesn't mean you have to live it on the dark side either to know what you're capable of.

anyone is capable of anything.