A spin on being a challenge

[becker]

I have another theory about the whole "being a challenge" thing. I believe there is a chicken/egg argument here. I feel that the problem is that each individual is attracted to a certain type, and being that that is the case, there aren't always things you can apply, such as C+F, to break through that.

Imagine a girl who is your type, but she's not attracted to your type. Here, there is an inherent problem since you will be attracted to her, but she will not be attracted much to you. You'll apply your C+F, your kino, etc., and may make her laugh and stuff, but in the end, you still don't fit her mold. This makes her seem like she's playing games/is a challenge, which might make you want her more. Instead of being just attracted to the fact she is a challenge, perhaps it's more accurate to say that you are attracted to her, and she just isn't attracted to you. This makes it seem like you're chasing after her all the time, and she's running away from you.

Then, what's worse is that if you act all unavailable and non-clingy, which usually is supposed to increase a woman's attraction, she doesn't really care, since she's not attracted to you anyways, so in the end, what you're really doing is playing games with yourself. Bottom line here is that if she's not interested, it doesn't matter if you lay on all that DJ stuff if you're not her type.

For example, I like cute, shy girls. If a girl who I know is outgoing starts to play shy, even if she's cute, I may not go for her, and nothing she does, including kino, being less available, etc. will increase my curiosity toward her. Maybe the reason for this is that I don't like girls who believe that being all flirty with other guys while in a relationship is proper, for example. As a result, I'll just sort of let her escape my mind, and the fact she's not available only makes it easier. Then, if she's attracted to me, it will make me seem like I'm being a challenge, when in reality, I'm just not interested in her.

Also, let's say for the sake of argument that a girl who might just be attracted to a certain ethnicity (maybe an asian girl who only likes white guys, for example). Now, if you're anything outside of what that asian girl goes for as far as type, I don't think much C+F and kino will get you much farther than just a mere peck on the cheek maybe, at BEST. This seems true especially since girls tend to always be looking for the better deal, and what you have is a "flaw" in what the girl perceives is an ideal guy, a flaw which might be major enough to warrant her drawing an arbitrary line as to how far you're going to get with her.

Anyways, just sort of something I was thinking about. What do you all think?

 

[RazzleDazzle]

This is very true, but sometimes people grow on you and you don't even know it. Hell I've dated girls outside my criteria before. Your heart can take over sometimes, and your heart doesn't always follow guidelines.

Good post though. Two thumbs up.

 

[dontmindme]

Good post. Much of what you said I believe is true.

DJ skills is most useful when there is some sort of attraction.

If there was no attraction in the first place, then it will either take time or some unusual circumstances for attraction to occur.

Sometimes, after time, people in the friend zone become attracted to one another. Or, if you undergo an extreme situation with another person, such as being trapped on a deserted island, attraction might occur there.

 

[violator]

It has always been said that challenge does no create attraction, but only magnifies it if it exists at all.

 

[becker]

Good points raised by all you guys above.

I guess the bottom line was that getting a girl who isn't attracted to your type to become attracted to you may not be possible. A sad thing.

I agree that I've also gone out with girls who are not my type, but nothing big ever became of it. I guess it's possible, but again, a line will likely be drawn as to how far the whole relationship is going to go, by the guy or girl who is less attracted.

 

[runna4]

Yes, I'm thinking similar to you. However is there a solution to this?

What if she's mildly interested in me... but OK, she's going to be a freshman at college while I'm going to be a senior in HS. Right now I figure I'm "just another guy" so playing as a challenge is not the way to go... she'll just drop me off the list. We didn't go to the same HS, we've just known eachother for 3 days. However I feel we've been a good fit, as we've had some fairly good convo - not just "on the surface" talk.

Her older bro told me he talked to one of her friends, and she was described as such:

She's the fork and she's given a large plate of food. You got the potatoes, veggies, meat, sauce, blah blah, and she's just poking around. The food by the way is the guys. I mean she's open minded and all but she does say she's a bit shy. And I have reason to believe she thinks I'm "shallow" until I revealed a bit more about myself as I gave her a ride home one day (she had to leave early, and her bro was staying later). By the way, we were volunteer group helpers for a child's summer camp.

Sorry to perhaps have gone off on a tangent. Back to the task - so how do I do something to make myself stand out to her? I don't want to be a bread crumb to her or something. No I haven't spilled my heart out to her or anything, but she knows I have interest in her.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm not an artist or musician so I can't do something extremely sweet for her, so what I can I do man... I've met/known a lot of chicks, and this one I'd really like to pursue for a relationship.

By the way, I haven't taken her out on a date yet, since camp just ended and I got her number. She also lives a good 25 mins drive away, but I told her I knew that but it didn't matter to me and I don't want to regret NOT trying, and I left it at that. I guess I should ask her out on a date soon.

Thanks

 

[Starman]

Good perspective on typology and mental templates people use to judge whether they are compatible with another or not.

But..as with ALL things in life..there are different levels to how stringent somebody is with Types.

i.e. My type is brunette, latina..long black hair..etc..but that doesnt mean I wont date a red head a blond, a middle eastern chick, etc etc

The important mechanism here is

#1 - Types are usually phases..(a while back my "type" was blond hair , blue eyes, big tata's..they CAN change

#2 Flexibility. Types arent set in STONE. Lets say a girl's Type is the Abercrombie Fitch Model looking type..if she has a hard time meeting this ideal..she will start becoming more realistic and flexible.

i.e. Ive known women whose types were blond/blue eyed /muscular types..then I hear the same chick say How some black dude, or asian dude is good looking and hot.?

so basically, what chicks say they want isnt always what they end up with.

 

[GQ Prettyboy]

First off, you need to know is she attracted to you before you go up to her. If not, move on.

 

[Quick]

I don't think the challenge falsely makes you think a girl likes you. There's a reason we also train ourselves to be aggressive and look for low IL. If you ask for things directly, you know pretty quickly whether she likes you or not. As opposed to someone who's passive and waits for things to happen, an aggressive guy will find out pretty quickly that she's not into him when she won't call him back/date/kiss/fVck him. It shouldn't be confusing to the DJs. She says "no", that means she's not interested. You stop pursuing her and focus on other girls. Either her interest level will get raised and she'll come after you, or you've weeded her out and moved on. On the flipside, as a DJ, by not pursuing her endlessly, you're constantly putting the pressure on her to prove that she truly wants you.

 

[Starman]

"First off, you need to know is she attracted to you before you go up to her."

hahahahah if this was the case with every man in the world..NOBODY would get laid.

You have a lot to learn my friend. There is NO human way to know if a girl is attracted to you or not before going up to her. Sure there are clues. But Knowing, is far fetched.

and as for your theory, you obviously dont understnd that attraction is multifaceted: looks, sexuality, mental attraction, spiritual, emotional attraction, etc etc..

ever wonder why so many women have fantasies or fall in love with their therapists/psychologists? Emotional attraction.

 

[Framboise]

well, i dunno about u but im pretty ****ing sweet and i know the girl im approaching is probably into me. Its like 90% that she is.

 

[Starman]

dude is english your native language?

Waiting to be 100% certain confident, fail proof to approach a girl is AFC in Bold (If I knew how to do bold or a 100 Type font)

It all boils down to the fear of rejection..people who fear rejection neeed to be self assured that the girl will blow him on the first meeting before he even musters the spine to go talk to a girl.

 

[XANEUS]

You are correct that challenge without attraction wil get you nowhere, but you assume that attraction is a static quantity over which you have no control. It is your job to CREATE attraction. Anyone who doesn't fumble blatantly can score when a girl is into them from the get-go... a true player is one who knows how to CREATE the attraction.

 

[becker]

Well, that's sort of the issue that I raise here. Can attraction truly be created?

Starman has good insight on the fact that a person's attraction preferences can and often do change. However, I'm talking about the girl who you know is not attracted to asian guys, for example. Most of the time, there will be a bit of a block in the girl's mind which, as much as it might be overcome, it is not so likely if there's another guy hanging around which more closely matches her type. Being that you won't be able to isolate this girl from society, the odds certainly don't seem to be in your favor.

On the flip side, I know that I was never really into blondes for some reason (I still am not really into them, even if they're gorgeous). I just prefer brunettes, and I always have. Not that I've never seen some very attractive blondes, but I knew in my mind that the farthest I'd try to go with them would likely be as friends. Weird how it works, but that's just one of those inexplicable things we face, sort of like the way we try to decipher how women think, when even they don't always know themselves.

 

[becker]

Is there nobody else with a comment on this?

 

[Starman]

yea the thread was moved to "Floral Attraction" forum

 

[Bonhomme]

The Challenge Curve

Good food for thought, becker.

What I've observed is a sort of "challenge curve," when there is attraction: if someone's attracted to someone else, their being a challenge works to intensify the attraction to a point.

Beyond that point -- which varies in each case -- the attracted person just gets pissed-off and nexts the attractor. Obviously, the stronger the attraction and the lower the self-esteem of the attracted individual, the more of a challenge the attractor can be until they lose the other's practical interest.

 

[XANEUS]

very good insight bonhomme... you've obviously gotten out and played the game, rather than just sitting behind a keyboard.

It is important to calibrate... but for the most part, if you have girls getting pissed and thinking you've gone too far, you'll also be getting laid like a rock star by other girls. And it all comes with experience.

 

[squirrels]

If you are not ugly/smelly and she doesn't know you (I.e. you haven't established yourself as a total loser), there is bound to be SOME degree of attraction on your first approach. Of course it's been said that you get "sized up" sexually within the first 7 seconds of meeting a girl. If you don't "come up strong" in that first 7 seconds, that little bit of attraction can die very easily.

If you DO survive, there are ways to nurture that attraction. The question is, how much time are you willing to put in (how precious is your time to you/are you willing to sacrifice it for this girl's pu$$y).

However, walking away/disappearing before you've managed to nurture sufficient attraction is game-over. It's like taking the training wheels off a bike before the rider has established technique and confidence. SPLAT!

I was trying to tell some kid this on another forum. He blew this girl off, but now he wants her and she's just ignoring him, so he thought ignoring her back would make her come running to him. It doesn't work that way.

Course I also told him to be unapologetic (among other things) in his approach, and he just couldn't believe that women wanted unapologetic men. Should I give him the link?

 

[laydee1]

There's being a challenge and there's climbing Everest

It is USUAL for girls to want to appear as a challenge as it proves they are not a slut and wouldn't just go with anyone.

So if guys are doing it too - how is anyone ever going to get with anyone.

There is this one guy in my life right now and I know he is attracted to me and so do all my friends, but he's doing this "being a challenge" act and I'm just waiting for him to get over it. If he was a REALLY confident guy, he would just come out and say what he felt about me and then I would make sure he was adequately rewarded for his bravery ;-)

See, just because a guy isn't a challenge doesn't mean he can't also be the prize

Guys who pretend they are being a challenge are just justifying their inability to flirt with a girl - it's just an excuse for not having the confidence..

Besides, guys who pretend they are a challenge appear to girls as:-
a) unconfident
b) possibly gay
c) not very sexy - possibly just not that into physical lust to go after a woman - not so many hormones in their bodies

That's all!