A reliability issue...

[Colossus]

I have sort of a connundrum here.

This may sound trite, but give the whole post a read as im wondering if it has larger implications.

My gf of 1 + years is incredibly unreliable when it comes to phone calls and just generally being on time. This issue has become somewhat exacerbated as of late. She is almost always late when coming over to my house (she lives an hour away) and meeting me for things. This I have learned to live with, because I too am often late, but it is still an annoyance.
The phone call thing, however, really gets my goat. She can NEVER call me in a timely manner. Typically we talk after work on most days, and we hang out on the weekends. Recently she has been working double shifts and having family problems (she lives at home right now), so her calls are sporadic and never on time, which is understandable. But the past couple of weeks she has been going 2-3 days without calling or returning my calls, promising to call me at X time when we are both not at work, and fails every time. My calls to her usually go unanswered. Her explanations are less-than-convincing, because she is never in a position where she is unable to use the phone for a few days, so I often take this as disrespect or disregard.

Now Im not a phone call nazi, but I do like regular communication, especially since we live apart. Lately this has really been getting under my skin, and my mind often wanders to unhealthy places. (I should note that there is a past history with this; we dated off-and-on for a year before we got together seriously...long story)
Anyways, the point of the story is that I am finding myself disturbingly irked by her flaky communication skills. We have had many conversations about this. I am wondering if this unreliability could have other implications for our relationship.

I realize there is nothing I can really do to change her actions; after all we are never responsible for the actions of others. So my question is should I take action (i.e.- cut it off), or stop taking it personally and just let it roll off my back, knowing that I am free to explore other options if I want to.

 

[Vulpine]

Actions, not words, my man.

Dude, if she respected you, or your time, things would be different.

Trust your gut in these matters. If you aren't happy, fix it or fux it, don't stand by and tollerate bad behavior.

 

[Sinistar]

If you were [insert her favorite hollywood dude here] do you think she would be going days at a time without calling or not calling when she said she would????

Guys [generally] don't post their dirty laundry unless it's worse than they want to admit [to themselves]. That's very often the reason why guys find this place or return to it.

So, just the fact you wrote tells us 90% of the time that the problem is bigger [than you want to believe it is].

However, the problem may not be what you want to hear. And that is probably the case 90% of the time too!

First off, it doesn't take a lot of reading to see your setup falls more in the LDR category. The success rate of LDR's is usually not a bet a DJ would place his money on.

Next, you have to ask yourself who really controls the frame here. From what little I read, it is you that is irked by her behaviour. In a sense, she is pulling away and you are instinctively chasing. Of course, you wouldn't do that if you weren't emotionally invested.

In part, where I am going with this is expectations. They are usually driven by beliefs. It sounds like you believe that you two are in a committed LTR. And you believe that people in LTR's communicate regularly and courteously. And those beliefs have you expecting that she should call more regularly and on-time. However, my guess would be that she owns the frame, needs you less (whether it's life sh!t or another dude or whatever) and thus she's taking you for granted. So you're expectations aren't being met. So it sounds like your beliefs and expectations need a reality check.

Since you're in a committed LTR, spinnin' plates is probably not an option you want to consider. At age 25 in a LTR for over a year, Rollo's DJ math might not exactly be what you want to hear (although it might be what you need to hear).

I believe this. If a woman is really into you, she'll want to hear from you regularly and often (that's why the guy being a bit aloof works wonders). If a woman is really into you, she'll call you whenever she feels like calling you (because she's thinking and having feelings about you often). If a woman is really into you she won' take your time and attention for granted (because she is wired to know that respect matters a great deal to MEN). If a woman is really into you and she has healthy value systems and she has other stressfull things going on her life she'll share it with you first (because she'll trust you, need you to listen and possibly want your help or advice).

The real test here (like always) is if it bugged you enough to actually post for help - what does that tell you about this relationship?

And here's the sh!tty part. If you ask her to call you more, she'll see it as week and push you farther into her frame and into beta status. And if you ask her why she doesn't call more or on-time she'll see you as week and in need of her. And if you demand that she call you more or on-time, she'll just have more reason to pull away and disrespect you. And she'll use that as a reason to actually sleep with the guy she has probably limited herself to only giving BJ's so she's not technically cheating right now.

...or the short answer...

She is more interested in something or someone else right now.

 

[Pimp-sicle]

If you were [insert her favorite hollywood dude here] do you think she would be going days at a time without calling or not calling when she said she would????

Guys [generally] don't post their dirty laundry unless it's worse than they want to admit [to themselves]. That's very often the reason why guys find this place or return to it.

So, just the fact you wrote tells us 90% of the time that the problem is bigger [than you want to believe it is].

However, the problem may not be what you want to hear. And that is probably the case 90% of the time too!

First off, it doesn't take a lot of reading to see your setup falls more in the LDR category. The success rate of LDR's is usually not a bet a DJ would place his money on.

Next, you have to ask yourself who really controls the frame here. From what little I read, it is you that is irked by her behaviour. In a sense, she is pulling away and you are instinctively chasing. Of course, you wouldn't do that if you weren't emotionally invested.

In part, where I am going with this is expectations. They are usually driven by beliefs. It sounds like you believe that you two are in a committed LTR. And you believe that people in LTR's communicate regularly and courteously. And those beliefs have you expecting that she should call more regularly and on-time. However, my guess would be that she owns the frame, needs you less (whether it's life sh!t or another dude or whatever) and thus she's taking you for granted. So you're expectations aren't being met. So it sounds like your beliefs and expectations need a reality check.

Since you're in a committed LTR, spinnin' plates is probably not an option you want to consider. At age 25 in a LTR for over a year, Rollo's DJ math might not exactly be what you want to hear (although it might be what you need to hear).

I believe this. If a woman is really into you, she'll want to hear from you regularly and often (that's why the guy being a bit aloof works wonders). If a woman is really into you, she'll call you whenever she feels like calling you (because she's thinking and having feelings about you often). If a woman is really into you she won' take your time and attention for granted (because she is wired to know that respect matters a great deal to MEN). If a woman is really into you and she has healthy value systems and she has other stressfull things going on her life she'll share it with you first (because she'll trust you, need you to listen and possibly want your help or advice).

The real test here (like always) is if it bugged you enough to actually post for help - what does that tell you about this relationship?

And here's the sh!tty part. If you ask her to call you more, she'll see it as week and push you farther into her frame and into beta status. And if you ask her why she doesn't call more or on-time she'll see you as week and in need of her. And if you demand that she call you more or on-time, she'll just have more reason to pull away and disrespect you. And she'll use that as a reason to actually sleep with the guy she has probably limited herself to only giving BJ's so she's not technically cheating right now.

...or the short answer...

She is more interested in something or someone else right now.

Brillant post and I couldn't agree more.





PIMP

 

[Colossus]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Sinistar, I read your entire reply and it did hit home. It was logical and objective based on the information I gave, which I respect.

You pretty much outlined everything I have suspected but not been willing to admit to myself. My gut has been telling me that something is up for almost 2 weeks now. I want to believe her, because I love her, but I have had this gut feeling before when things were going awry, and its tough to shake.

I believe this. If a woman is really into you, she'll want to hear from you regularly and often (that's why the guy being a bit aloof works wonders). If a woman is really into you, she'll call you whenever she feels like calling you (because she's thinking and having feelings about you often). If a woman is really into you she won' take your time and attention for granted (because she is wired to know that respect matters a great deal to MEN). If a woman is really into you and she has healthy value systems and she has other stressfull things going on her life she'll share it with you first (because she'll trust you, need you to listen and possibly want your help or advice).

I fully agree with this. It is reliable, proveable wisdom. For the past year the respect has been in my favor, and she has treated me like I was the most important person to her. Her sudden change in behavior set off my gut, and consequently I went chasing after her, getting angry, asking, questioning, and basically reacting to the situation in a way that only pushed the issue more in her favor. I do have a lot of feelings tied up in this girl; I readily admit that. We have been through alot and I happen to be human...it happens.

The hardest part now is cutting the cord. I know I have the stones, but I feel like I may be basing this off of the assumption, not proof, that she is up to no good. Any way I slice it, I'm being disrespected, and this is not untouched territory for her.

 

[jophil28]

My guess is that she IS taking you for granted. I agree with most of Sinistar's post too.
Here is what I would do - stop talking, begging and pleading with her to "see your side of things'... Instead nominate a ' lateness limit' to your self. Say 15 minutes. Then, when she is late showing up at your place next time, just go out when she exceeds your limit. Leave your house and do not go back for an hour.
If she gets pissed off, say, " I talked to you about this lateness thing and it made no difference to your behavior. Being late is no longer OK with me, " ( this is NOT you whining or complaining - instead you are reading from your ' book of rules' )
Then SHUT UP and listen and watch her face.
If she is into you she will listen and apologize and explain her lateness..
If she is taking you for granted she will take off in a huffy rage.
Either way you will find out a lot about her attitude towards and her IL in you.

 

[joekerr31]

hold the horses for a moment guys. i'm probably the biggest advocate of nexting a low quality woman BUT that is always with respect to a pattern of behavior (or if the behavior is clear sign of impending disaster).

your spidey sense should go off when a woman exhibits one set of behaviors for a long period of time and then suddenly starts behaving differently.

that doesn't seem to be the case here. this woman has always been like this.

and i didn't really learn this until i was about 28, but i now realize there are two types of people in this world the first type (like myself) are always on time. in the rare occasion where they are late they apologize profusely. the second type are laize faire, they don't follow a schedule but rather arrive 'roughly' when they said they would.

the later are the way they are. they were raised by parents like that (usually) and have behaved that way their whole life. they genuinely don't see it as rude and think everyone behaves that way - and the people who don't are 'anal'.

personally, i don't become friends with anyone that isn't punctual. i have no desire to wait around for 15 minutes just becuase someone wanted to eat a ding dong before leaving and as a result was late.

anyway, with regards to this woman, you've been with her for a year. immediately discard the first six months since thats the honeymoon period and she's goign to be on her best behavior. so is she currently behaving differently or more distant than she has been over the last six months?

if the answer is yes, there is a drastic difference, then you need to give us more info to help you more - because something is wrong.

if the answer is no, that perhaps its a bit more pronounced, but that she's always been like this - then you don't have a problem other than this is who she is.

I think its premature to assume that she's sucking some guy's kawk just because she's behaving how she always has.

 

[STR8UP]

I think its premature to assume that she's sucking some guy's kawk just because she's behaving how she always has.

I dunno....my gut has never been wrong. If a chick has a sudden change in behavior the vast majority of the time it means she's found another source of intimacy. If it were me I would like to think that I wouldn't be giving too much benefit of the doubt, as whenever I HAVE done this it has come back to bite me in the ass.

As for the punctuality issue, I have a real problem with that. I place a very high value on my time, and if you can't respect that you can stick it where the sun don't shine. I have to put up with a couple of friends who pull that sh!t, but it's only because I am involved with them in the business world as well. If it has nothing to do with my pocket book, that sh!t doesn't fly with me. But to each his own....

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Lateness can happen to anybody, but CHRONIC lateness is really just a form of ARROGANCE.

People (in this case, WOMEN in particular) often exhibit tardiness as a passive/agressive way of subconsciously communicating to the ON-TIME person that "they" are the star of the show------not "them". What they are really telling you by being late ALL THE TIME is that they are somehow better or more important than you.

Answer THESE questions, if you can:

Is this woman late for her job? Is she late for school? Is she late for doctor's appointments? If the answer to all these questions is "YES", then she probably has a problem with respecting OTHER people's timetables IN GENERAL.

But if she's on time for THESE appointments and is ONLY late when "you" want to see her, THEN she probably only has a problem respecting "YOU" in PARTICULAR.

And if so, this IS a sign of a consistent AND continuing disrespect that she is showing you.


Consider this:

Even a BROKEN clock is on time TWICE a day.

So if this woman ISN'T consistently disrespecting YOUR timetable ON PURPOSE-------then she would HAVE to be "on time" every now and then just by fukkin' MISTAKE. Wouldn't she????

You know her patterns of behavior far better than WE do, soldier. So take some time to think about it...and let us know what YOU conclude...

 

[Colossus]

She has always been a late person. The issue is not with her lack of punctuality, but her out-of-character lack of contact and interest.


**On a useful side note- we originally got together in the fall of '05, when I was still a raging AFC. We had a tumultuous off-on relationship cycle throughout that year, mainly because I allowed her to treat me poorly. When school got out, after I had been through the wringer and back with her, I finally quit going back to her and let go. We didnt talk for about two and a half months. Meanwhile, during this time, I was shedding my first major AFC skin, hooking up w/ other girls, enjoying life, investing in myself. I felt reborn. She came back to me that summer, and we developed a pretty healthy rel. just talking to each other long distance. When I came back to school last fall we were instantly together, and I could tell she had realized some things. From that point on, we've certainly had our ups and downs, but at the end of the day she has always been loving, understanding, and resilient. We worked very hard to build a solid relationship. I felt that out love has only grown.
For the past year she has always been a faithful caller (not punctual but consistent), even since we went LD, and would come to me first no matter what was going on in her life. I knew I was #1 for her, because her actions told me so. The past week and a half have been very unlike her. Not returning my calls, not even mentioning hanging out on the weekend, which is very unusual, promising to talk/call and bailing--all of this is not normal. She used to treat me like this during our rocky on-off year (which i accept responsibility for allowing), and that is why my 'spidey-sense' went off.
Prior to this things were really never better. I was very happy with her and our relationship, and it seemed she was too.

 

[joekerr31]

my bad. for some reason i totally didn't register the whole scenario of you guys arrange a time to talk and her then blowing it off - also missed the point of her not returning your calls.

as such my advice was p*ss poor!

sorry about that dude, i gotta pay more attention sometimes.

based on the info you've given in both entries, i definitely agree more with earlier views that she's up to no good.

at the very bare minimum she has zero fear of upsetting you - that much is obvious. and if she has no fear of upsetting you - honestly, how much can you trust her?

i think this is going to be one of the women that comes in to your life so that you can learn something mroe about yourself (hows that for putting a positive spin on a potentially negative situation).

 

[Colossus]

Update:

Its been 3 days since we spoke on the phone. We had a good talk wednesday about the past 2 weeks, and i felt that we leveled with each other on the inconsistency issue and where each other was coming from. Here's where it all went to sh!t: She promised me to call me in the a.m. on thursday so we could catch up more. Thursday a.m. came and went... 9 pm rolls around and i am boiling over with frustration and suspicion, ready to cut it off. Keep in mind that prior to all of this she was very good about talking to me, and i was always the first one she would go to, so i knew something was up. After our talk the previous day i felt totally disrespected that she blew me off AGAIN, so i send her and sms (couldnt reach her by phone) telling her that someone or something is more important to her and i dont want to go down this road again. Come get your stuff.

As it turns out, she did send me a message that morning saying she got called into work (she works in a hospital) and she would call me that night when she got home. I never got the message, which happens occaisionally w/ our phones. So i basically turned he whole situation to **** by overreacting. We havent spoke since; I have been trying fervently to get ahold of her like a guy who just lost what is most important to him (which is basically the truth) but nothing. We exchanged a few more texts, she expressed her stress and exasperation about the ordeal, and i kept trying to explain to her it was a mistake and i regretted it...but i think i just made it worse. I finally gave up today, and resigned to myself that i killed it and should let it go. There is nothing more i can do, she wont respond to anything i say to her.

I am feeling quite alone. I am at a point in my life where I have no support network, no real bros to talk to...no one but my dear old dad. I miss her alot and i didnt realize how much she meant to me. Things were going so well before...i dont understand.

 

[Interceptor]

Colossus,
be careful of over apologizing.
A person with true grace, and class will forgive and accept one's apology.
think about this, if she disrepsected you, but went to you with an apology and asked for forgiveness, would you accept it, or continue to punish her and mortify her with guilt??
If she is punishing you, you may have to realize that she's into big Power Plays. And is using her Pvssy Power over you. This is not good.
This is a sign of the future. This is a sign that she's not the woman you think she is. In fact, your idealization of her is what is getting you in trouble.
If someone does NOT want to even give you the time of day to hear your side of the story, then. my friend, you are truly dealing with a vindictive Low Class woman.
You really miss this chick??
The chick who will make you burn at the first sign of an error??
OK, you jumped the gun. But if she were smart, she would have realize the context of the situation, and you r reaction. She would have thought: "Well, considering our little talk yesterday, I understand why he would be so pissed,. But what he didn't realize is that I DID message him, he just didn't get the message. This is all just a misunderstadning."
But...that didn't happen. The chick is shanking you with guilt, and teaching you a lesson.

 

[Colossus]

Interceptor--

I dont think she is 'punishing' me; i considered this and she is not a vindictive person. She is the type of girl who tends to bury her head in the sand when she doesnt know what to do; rather than dealing with it she just shuts down, runs to her friends and acts like it isnt there. That is my feeling of what is going on, or a combination of things.

 

[joekerr31]

she may not be punishing you, but one thing is 100% clear - she could care less if she lost you.

you are NOT the prize in this scenario. she could care less if you were or weren't in her life. this is why she is able to call whenever she wants, ignore you whenever she wants, etc.

what's it going to take for you to stand up and be more manly in all this?

is it goign to take you catching her sucking some other guy's kawk?

 

[Phyzzle]

Please take the hint and stop calling this woman before she gets a restraining order. It's getting painfully obvious (to everyone but you) that she does not want to talk to you.

Do I have to run the whole train of logic?

She doesn't have 10 seconds to call you Thursday morning, but she has 30 seconds to text you.

Coincidentally, this is a text you don't get. Oh, and no text you've ever sent to anyone else's phone has ever been lost.

She's called into work Thursday, very early in the morning, yet she doesn't get back until well after 9pm, and even then she still doesn't call you, and still doesn't answer her phone when it rings.

You may send her ONE more message: tell her where her stuff will be (if it's in your way). Kind of dumb to leave stuff at your house, then move out of town, but whatever.

 

[Sinistar]

I'm gonna take Phyzzle's advice on step farther (and the risk of being roasted) because our OP is now in rocks and shoals territory. When you contact her say basically the following:

"I am sorry for losing it. I had no excuse. Your can pick up your things whenever you're ready or I can send them to you."

...then as friggin' hard as it may seem - she's runnin' the show on this last act. If you tweak that apology above in anyway (ie add a 'but' or 'if') you will fvck yourself so bad you'll be here cryin' for months. If she wants her sh!t tomorrow, let her get it. If she takes two weeks. Then that's cool too. If she lets it drag on, send it to her in a box. And between now and then, not a single friggin' word. No text, no call and don't even let your brain for one instant think of going there.

Dude, maybe you just need to hear it. Your relationship is over. No one ever wants that to happen to someone else. However, when it's over the worst thing we can do is hang onto something that ain't gonna be there for us.

And here's why it's over. She lost interest in you. She didn't do that purposely. It just happens (noting LDR's magnify this sh!t). And in the matrix, women hope you'll get the hints they give off (lack of interest or communication in this case). That is just the way they are wired. You can hope for the rest of your life that women will just come out and tell you what I just did. Well, actuall they do on occassion. When a guy gets so desperate, so clingy, so needy, so pushy that they feel miserable. And being feeling creatures they just want one thing - that crappy feeling to end.

And here's a chance to grow. Privately take full responsibility for the ending (even if a good chunk of it was her fault). She doesn't need to know you have taken responsibility - that's your private sh!t. When you do you'll feel better. You'll start to wonder about a lot of things. You'll start seeings more clearly. As Rollo says, you'll start getting better at playing the game instead of hoping they'll play it differently.

You're gonna survive bro. Sh!t like this knocks AFC's out of the matrix faster than brass flyin' out of a M60. You just have to decide whether you can stand having all this awareness and responsibility and knowledge.

 

[Colossus]

Reading over all of this I am ashamed at how i handled it. I appreciate all the advice, but I have said enough to her. Nothing further is necessary. I would like to save my remaining dignity from this point forward.

 

[Colossus]

I knew I was going to get ripped for posting all of this; frankly I needed it and can handle a little tough love. But i am also human and i dont think my feelings here are totally unacceptable. This happens to many good men who lose a long-term girlfriend, especially if its the girl who leaves. I had a LOT invested in this relationship. She was the first girlfriend that i truly loved. It has obviously been hard for me to let it go.

Im not making any excuses for my actions; I accept responsibility for what i did. It hurts and its going to take time. Ultimately, i am the only one who knows the whole story, but I can see the common thread in all of your posts-- If its dead, leave it dead. Learn from it and move on. I know a broken heart is what brought many of us here in the first place.

 

[hithard]

I knew I was going to get ripped for posting all of this; frankly I needed it and can handle a little tough love. But i am also human and i dont think my feelings here are totally unacceptable. This happens to many good men who lose a long-term girlfriend, especially if its the girl who leaves. I had a LOT invested in this relationship. She was the first girlfriend that i truly loved. It has obviously been hard for me to let it go.

Im not making any excuses for my actions; I accept responsibility for what i did. It hurts and its going to take time. Ultimately, i am the only one who knows the whole story, but I can see the common thread in all of your posts-- If its dead, leave it dead. Learn from it and move on. I know a broken heart is what brought many of us here in the first place.

Tough love on this forum is to spare you more pain in R/L.No one likes seeing someone on that path of losing dignity