A Misconception about Marriage

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Here's a question for discussion; what specifically do you gain by getting married?

 

[KarmaSutra]

Having been married, I can tell you it's much more complex than one gives it credit for before having done it. Having been divorced, I can tell you the matriarchal/feminist court system all but forces the male to become an AFC. Women go into marriage knowing they've already won the divorce settlement.

I lived with my ex for 5 years before we got married. The difference was subtle but tangible right out of the gate. Her sense of entitlement skyrocketed. She was no longer on her best behavior, because all the marital assets, so she thought, were at least half hers. She no longer had to back down on power struggles because her mother clued her in to how much I'd owe her in child support if one of us walked. Suddenly, her childish whims carried legal weight. It was a recipe for divorce. Our relationship took a turn for the worse right after the honeymoon.

Of course, the reaction to the increased relationship power a woman gains by getting married depends on the woman. I have seen women who are dedicated to the relationship, and mature enough, not to let it affect their behavior. But I don't think this is something you can gauge before taking the plunge, you can only guess.

For a DJ, or any man who wants to control his own life, marriage is Russian Roulette.

Also, a MARRIED DJ is showing AFC characteristics. First and foremost, he's saying to the world that quality women for him are getting scarce. He's also giving the woman what SHE wants, at great expense to himself. Notice, there is no "GROOM" magazine. Men are at best indifferent about getting married. Engagement alone shows large flaws in a DJ's armor.

Let me go out on a limb and and proclaim this to be one of the most succinct and important posts I've yet to read.

 

[Drum&Bass]

he has to maintain his game, except at a different caliber and field.

You spend the rest of your life trying to impress a woman while the rest of us will find better more fulfilling things to do for our lives. Who wants to be playing the game forever..

A true Don Juan knows his job is never over.

You are to young and short sighted to know anything about "a true don juan"
If anyone has a job to do it should be for self improvement in more rewarding aspects of life (hobbies, experiences, maturity, intelligence etc..

You should not strive to be a womans idealistic man just to get sex from her or have her worship you, that is the trait of someone with low self esteem (Become your own idealisitc man for yourself. Sometimes it will make a girl happy sometimes not, but you LIVE FOR YOU).

We all want to love and be loved, but women need to love you for who you are (interests, drive, goals, personality, honesty etc), not your ability to stay on your game..and you should love a woman for the same reasons..not for her ability to play you like a puppet to keep you interested.

and no my friend, this is definitely not AFC material.

peace
The PleasureKing

think again Youngin' you got A LOT TO LEARN

 

[RedPill]

Here's a question for discussion; what specifically do you gain by getting married?

Man I'm really glad you asked this. It's been on my mind a lot recently.

As I see it, you don't gain jack sh1t. Now, I'm still young and have never been married, but the only purpose that I see it serves is gaining the approval of community/society. You can live with a woman and raise healthy children with a woman, but how specifically does a man gain by giving her such huge leverage over him through a marriage contract?

In today's femme-centric legal system, a man cannot divorce a woman without incurring substantial financial penalties. If women knew that they could be kicked out or replaced at any time without that golden parachute, they would have a hell of a lot more respect for the men that provide for them and their offspring. They would support their men's dreams and work hard to stay hot, provided their husband is a man of substance.

I can't picture myself being married for a very long time from now, if at all. I'm the type of guy though that wants a high degree of control over my life. I'll never 'settle down' and be Mr. Suburbanite Husband who busts my hump to put food on the table for the wife and kids. My life ambitions don't include living out the classic working-class provider role, and will not be shelved so that some woman's dream of white picket fences and a small house full of junk is met.

Is it truly possible, when you have the means to do so, to structure your marriage so that if there is a divorce, the woman does not get to retain any of the assets *you* created both before or during the marriage?

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

marriage is the union between a male and a female where security is established financially and emotionally. its a life long commitment couples establish to forever hold them together. the door to procreation is opened to those who are religiously bound together as well....

...but the direct answer to what a man gains in marriage is LOVE, and no my friend, this is definitely not AFC material.

So are you saying that a guy can not achieve any of these things (including love) without getting married?

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Man I'm really glad you asked this. It's been on my mind a lot recently.

As I see it, you don't gain jack sh1t. Now, I'm still young and have never been married, but the only purpose that I see it serves is gaining the approval of community/society. You can live with a woman and raise healthy children with a woman, but how specifically does a man gain by giving her such huge leverage over him through a marriage contract?

In today's femme-centric legal system, a man cannot divorce a woman without incurring substantial financial penalties. If women knew that they could be kicked out or replaced at any time without that golden parachute, they would have a hell of a lot more respect for the men that provide for them and their offspring. They would support their men's dreams and work hard to stay hot, provided their husband is a man of substance.

I can't picture myself being married for a very long time from now, if at all. I'm the type of guy though that wants a high degree of control over my life. I'll never 'settle down' and be Mr. Suburbanite Husband who busts my hump to put food on the table for the wife and kids. My life ambitions don't include living out the classic working-class provider role, and will not be shelved so that some woman's dream of white picket fences and a small house full of junk is met.

Is it truly possible, when you have the means to do so, to structure your marriage so that if there is a divorce, the woman does not get to retain any of the assets *you* created both before or during the marriage?

That was a very well thought out answer. Now here's a challenging question for you. Given your views on the subject of marriage, can you try really hard to determine just one benefit to getting married (from a guy's perspective of course). Hey, I didn't say this was going to be easy, just challenging.

 

[PRMoon]

Here's a question for discussion; what specifically do you gain by getting married?

I had to think about this one for a while.

I think, for myself anyway, marriage is the final test of myself. I've been able to coupe with girls for a while. I've figured out what I need to do to keep girls entertained while keeping my independance for quite some time now. I can break down girls who seem like they'll be a challenge in minutes, days, months, and years. I've beaten the best and made possible that which others have said couldn't be done. I've been in situations with friends that seemed bleek and turned a victory for all. There isn't much about the game with girls that I haven't done or is no longer routine for me EXCEPT the next level.

Marriage will be my final test, the final exam for the diciplined student. So many things that could go wrong over such a long period of time! Kids, PTA meetings, Soccer games, birthday parties, other parents! It's a f*cking mad house! Honestly the whole premise of me raising kids in a marriage (the only way I'll do it) is the scariest thing in my mind. I've climbed several mountains in my lifetime but it's my everst. I know I'm good at the game. I've been good at a lot of things for the bulk of my life. But to invest so many years into an endevor that's so fragile and requires so much work to maintain with one person as my only aligence AND at the same time could become my worst enemy is a very scary thought. It's a challenge that could exaust everything I've become over the years and I'm not sure if that's a positive or a negative. Let's not forget that there will likely be another little life involved in the equation. One that I'll probobly care for more than anything I've experienced before. If things go wrong, how will that life be affected? I can't say with certantiy that I'll win this time, and the chips will all be pushed to the center of the table. I'm a gambler by nature but there are some bets that I'm not sure If I'm willing to lose but at the same time could change my life exponentially if I win.

 

[dietzcoi]

PR Moon

Define "winning" in your post.. what do you think you will "win"?

Only those of us who have been there can tell you... there is no "winning". I would like to see what a man thinks he has "won" by getting married. Unless you marry a very rich woman, of course

Dietzcoi

 

[dietzcoi]

PS You remember "Deliverance" when the hillbilly asks Burt Reynolds why he wants to go on the river and Burt says "Because it's there"

The Hillbilly answers "It's there all right, and if you get in it, and find you can't get out of it, you are going to wish it wasn't!!!"

Marriage is "there" - you get in it, and find you cannot get out of it without destroying yourself, you are going to wish it wasn't!!!!!

Dietzcoi

 

[PRMoon]

PR Moon

Define "winning" in your post.. what do you think you will "win"?

Only those of us who have been there can tell you... there is no "winning". I would like to see what a man thinks he has "won" by getting married. Unless you marry a very rich woman, of course

Dietzcoi

Winning, for me atleast, is about overcoming in odds that seem impossible. In an era that presents a 50 percent chance at failing in marriage, winning is beating those odds. Finding a good companion or best friend pooled from someone of the opposite sex who can make you happy and is happy in themselves waking up everyday next to you for the rest of your life is winning. Rasing a fuctional child who thinks of you as his or her hero first despite your faults, is winning. Being old and dying in a lifesupport system with someone who cares more about you then themselves, is winning. Being remembered for the person you were and surviving via the legacy that survived your short time on this earth is winning.

The concept of that is hard to grasp for many people but that's your life layed out for the next 40 plus years lain out. Your name will not be mentioned in history books. No one outside of your family will remember who you were outside of 100 years. That is your destiny, like it or not you are doomed to an eternity of nothingness. Trust me when I say you will not be able to game girls until your mid 50's to 90's if you make it that far. You will not be happy in your life after you reach that point and are alone with no one to enjoy life with. The big question is where do you start realizing this fact and when do you start acting on that notion before it's too late.

 

[Sir Drinksalot]

Winning, for me atleast, is about overcoming in odds that seem impossible. In an era that presents a 50 percent chance at failing in marriage, winning is beating those odds. Finding a good companion or best friend pooled from someone of the opposite sex who can make you happy and is happy in themselves waking up everyday next to you for the rest of your life is winning. Rasing a fuctional child who thinks of you as his or her hero first despite your faults, is winning. Being old and dying in a lifesupport system with someone who cares more about you then themselves, is winning. Being remembered for the person you were and surviving via the legacy that survived your short time on this earth is winning.

Raising kids in a normal environment has always been men's rationale for getting married, but lately it's become less of a requirement. Fifty years ago it was a pretty good place to be, but feminism, negative media portrayals of husbands, and a blatantly sexist judicial system have made marrying American women a mostly painful, unrewarding, expensive torment.

Of all my friends, two of them have marriages that I actually think are worthwhile because the women they married are willing to let them be who they are, don't attempt to control them or stifle them. But that's not normal. Most of the married guys I know have wives who harp on them about everything from remodeling the house, landscaping, getting a new car, going on vacation, staying home from work more, sending the kids to private school, you name it. American wives will bicker for decades about these things to feel power over their men, to impress their girlfriends and mothers, or just to keep their husband's attention out of insecurity. All the while, her respect for her husband erodes as her weight goes up and attractiveness declines. After a decade, you might not even be attracted to her, but you'll be more obligated than ever to provide for her.

The concept of that is hard to grasp for many people but that's your life layed out for the next 40 plus years lain out. Your name will not be mentioned in history books. No one outside of your family will remember who you were outside of 100 years. That is your destiny, like it or not you are doomed to an eternity of nothingness. Trust me when I say you will not be able to game girls until your mid 50's to 90's if you make it that far. You will not be happy in your life after you reach that point and are alone with no one to enjoy life with. The big question is where do you start realizing this fact and when do you start acting on that notion before it's too late.

This sure is the underlying message we get from women, isn't it? Boy they love for you to take this bait, too. They all believe it because it's true for women, because if they don't lock down a man and the "golden parachute" (good observation from somebody's earlier post in this thread), their girlfriends will make them feel like crap for the rest of their lives and they'll be stuck working for the rest of their lives. But it's not the case for men. The older men get, the more women think all men are taken, or gay. So really, you could easily wind up getting married late in the game, not "dying alone," playing doubles shuffleboard in a retirement community against another couple who's been married since age 25 -- without wasting your life busting your a$$ to shut some nagging shrew up, without going through any divorces, spending your life as you see fit.

 

[grinder]

Here's a question for discussion; what specifically do you gain by getting married?

This varies by individual, so I have 2:

1) Excellent children! I am so thankful for them.
2) Life experience.

I remember a thread recently on what are the top things people wanted to do. Despite the obvious massiveness of this institution, few put marriage on the list.

If you wish to become like tempered steel, you need to immerse your hot blade into some cold places.

 

[dietzcoi]

PR Moon:

I have bad news for you.

Nobody outside OR inside of your family will remember you in 100 years either way.

Your great grandchildren won't have any idea who you were.

Even if they did, what's the point?

Being remembered after you die is not a reason for marriage or children. Its foolish. We will all be forgotten. History remembers less that 0,001% of all people.

Grinder:

Prison is a "life experience' too I would imagine.

Still I know I do not want to experience it!!!!

Doesn't seem to me to be a real reason to get married either.

Dietzcoi

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I've probably posted on marriage more than any other member on this forum so I'll throw my hat in the ring here again.

In July my wife and I celebrated our 10th wedding anniversary. It's no secret to this forum that I have a very good marriage and I'm constantly asked what my 'secret' is for keeping things positive. This forum in particular is littered with stories of guys and their divorces contrasted against the stories of single guy's decaying LTRs or dealing with recovering from them. This makes my experience a bit unique. I don't say that to gloss myself, but more from a sense of being a wild card. Guys with successful marriages (a dubious term at best) don't really have the motivation to come to forums like this and share their insights. Why bother if that area of one's life is more or less taken care of? So in light of this, I'll share a few things I've learned in the last 10 years that make for a good marriage from my perspective.

Let me begin by giving you all some background; Mrs. Tomassi is my first marriage and Bebe Tomassi is our one and only daughter. As I said before, by society's current standards I'm a freak. I'm a freak in that I met my wife and we dated (non-exclusively) for 6 months before I proposed to her. I was 28 when we married. After 2 years being married we decided to have one child - by design. My wife expected me to be a Man and I in turn expected her to be a Woman. I did not knock her up and then marry her. She was not a single mother, nor did she have excess baggage from previous relationships.

This is important to know, because when I relate stuff like this I often get the "well, you did everything right" response, when in fact every bit of what I enjoy with my wife today is due to me doing everything wrong. I had to unlearn what 28 years of feminized and emasculating teachings had conditioned into me up to that point. I had come across a unique situation - a woman who actually wanted a Man to be a Man, and in all honesty I was completely unprepared for it. I was an AFC (really an rAFC by that point due to a psychotic, 4.5 year relationship prior to all this) and there was no SoSuave.com back then to inform me otherwise. I had read some of Dr. Warren Farrell's books, but that was the extent of my own self-understanding with regard to my own gender conditioning. I had never been taught that masculinity was anything more than something to be ridiculed, or in the extreme, something to be feared and controlled.

Now I had come across a woman who on our first date insisted that I drive HER car. My truck was a piece of sh!t of course , but after years of this gender equality brainwashing, a woman, upfront, wanted me to take control in literally handing me the keys. Since then I've always been the driver (with the exception of her driving us home after I had my wisdom teeth pulled). This was symbolic of how the next 10 years would play out.

Mrs. Tomassi is no push-over and she most certainly gives me sh!t tests even to this day. In fact I've described marriage as one life long sh!t test and I still hold to that mark, but from the begining she's EXPECTED me to be positively masculine - to be decisive, to be the initiator, to have the ideas and to confidently execute them. Even in my worst failures, the fact that I attempted was more important than the outcome. This may not have been the case in the short term, but in the long term is where you can see the appreciation in the behavior. We compliment each other in our understanding of our gender roles. Most guys think that sh!t tests are always a negative, but it's by passing them that we grow and become better men and in all honesty just get used to them, because you will NEVER meet a woman who wont (even unconsciously) use sh!t test you.

When we met my wife was dating 2 very rich men (we were non-exclusive, remember?), I had 2 nickels and a beat up pickup truck to my name. Mrs. Tomassi is a medical professional and the men she'd dated prior were E.R. doctors and radiologists; guys making well over $300K annualy. They had boats, cars, large homes, status, dispoasable wealth, and yet despite all of that I'm the one she pursued and locked in with (her Mom thought she was insane to marry me at the time). They had it made, but for all that wealth they were still clueless when it came to being Men - they were uncomfortable in their own masculinity. A lot of guys mistakenly believe that having a large bank account is the key to getting women, and while that might be true in the short term, in the long term it's to your own detriment (she'll end up with half after the divorce) if you don't ultimately kill the inner AFC and fearlessly embrace the postiveness of your own masculinity.

There are so many aspects I can detail about what makes for a good marriage, but all of these really boil down to 2 things, desire and mutual respect. Too many couples become complacent and comfortable in their marriages and this leads to a decline in both of these areas. A certain degree of subtle anxiety and constructive discontent is necessary for a good marriage. That comes off as negative, but it's really what makes each partner want to be better for themselves and each other. Taken too far it becomes abusive, but none at all and the marriage becomes stagnant which is equally dangerous. In the right proportion, this anxiety makes for a marriage that retains it's mutual desire (which is really IL) and mutual respect.

So how does this anxiety manifest itself? The easiest example is staying in shape together. I can honestly say my wife is as hot (if not more so since the boob job) as the day i married her. I WANT to bang my wife as often as humanly possible, how many men married for 10 years of marriage or even in an extended LTR can make that statement? My wife is a piece of ass and I see guys eye her all the time. Likewise I'm a bodybuilder and keep myself in peak condition. I get women in their 20's flirting with me often enough, and this confirms for her and myself that we are both desirable people - this is one example of this anxiety, and we both recognize it and respect each other for it.

There are other ways this anxiety can be applied, for instance C&F goes a long way in marriage. Mrs. Tomassi loves just enough C&F attitude from me to reaffirm her perception of my confidence. As I said early, marriage is a life long set of sh!t tests and carefully used C&F is a tool that can be used to diffuse a lot of these before they even happen. Confidence is still the thing that makes a woman want a man, even in marriage. Generally a sh!t test IS a test of confidence. Prior to marriage, it's latent purpose is to help a woman determine whether a guy can provide for her long term security. After marriage, a sh!t test is used to reassure a woman that she married the right guy.

I have a lot of rules I pop off with about LTRs & marriage on this forum. I emphasize that a man not even become monogamous until he's 28 and that he shouldn't consider marriage until his mid 30s. Again, I state this not because I did so myself, but from my side of the fence I can see the huge advantages to doing so now. Marriage should be a last resort, something to be forestalled until a Man, by virtue of years of experience, has the ability to recognize with measurable accuracy, a woman who deserves what he provides her. The PRIZE mentality is essential. A man must be a Prince first, before he can be a King when he marries. After 10 years of marriage I can honestly say there are no appreciable advantages (outside of raising children) that a man cannot enjoy single that he can married. That's not meant to be pessimistic, but rather pragmatic and a caution to emphasize how important it is to disabuse yourselves of this AFC, romanticized, marriage-as-goal mentality. It's also not to say marriage is never worth it - remember I have a great marriage - just that marriage is complete advantage for women with negligible benefit for men. Marriage will either make a man's life or destroy his life; enter into thinking about it like this and you'll do well - is this person deserving of what I provide? Women will NEVER, even in the best of marriages, fully appreciate the sacrifices a man has to make in order to fulfill his commitment of marriage. And that's the ultimate sh!t test, to know that you'll be sacrificing and limiting yourself intentionally with no realistic expectation of a potential wife ever fully appreciating it. This is why you have put your head into thinking whether she's deserving of your provisioning, security, confidence, attention, etc. even when it goes against what you think is your kind and good-hearted nature. You must be as self-concerned about marriage as you would be in saving your own life.

This a primary reason couples who marry too young (18-28) are statistically more likely to divorce. Both of them mature into an understanding of what it is they've signed on to and realize that they're stuck at a time in their lives and personal development that they should be unencumbered with the the accountabilities, liabilities and responsibilities that marriage ties them to.

 

[DarkTrick]

That has to be one of the most insightful posts on marriage from a man's perspective I've ever read, anywhere. Excellent Rollo, excellent.

I myself, married for > 15 yrs, can fully support the observations Rollo makes.

 

[azanon]

misc

RT,

First, you should know I like a lot of your posts, and ideas. There's definitely a lot of good stuff there not just in the post above this one, but your other stuff too. Yeah, i know you agree, i just want you to know that I do like a lot of your stuff despite our recent spat. That aside

Guys with successful marriages (a dubious term at best) don't really have the motivation to come to forums like this and share their insights. Why bother if that area of one's life is more or less taken care of? So in light of this, I'll share a few things I've learned in the last 10 years that make for a good marriage from my perspective.

I wish I could confirm this as truth, for the basic reason that you're a smart guy and have some good advise. Unfortunately, its not because, for starters, we have 2 people (you and me) that are 1. here and 2. both have successful marriages. I presume you do (now) realize your testimony about your successful marriage, the statement i quoted from you above and your being here is inherently condradictory?

Anyway, i guess i should answer you question above (why bother....). For me, because I want to continue to learn and improve my life especially for the things i love and enjoy which definitely includes women. I know I dont know everything, and I know others' good advise incorporated into my life can help make me a more effective person. Secondly, i love women and I know from personal experience that I'm capable of "desiring" more than one woman; married or not. I've seen it referred to as having the ability to "compartmentalize". If you think that these kinds of people, by definition, have bad marriages, then i guess you're entitled to feel that way. You must know though that it wouldn't change the fact that i love and desire my wife, and she desires me in kind.

>As for the right age to marry, the right answer is that there is no right age to marry. In saying that, I realize thats an obvious truth probably for a lot of people here. You married at 28. I say great! I married at 21 though and I have had the most wonderful 14 years of my life with my wife. Maybe I did "beat the odds", but this is no surprise for me because I have never been "an average person" in my life anyway. Like your wife, shes as hot as she was the day i met her or moreso (because we both work out 5+ days a week), and is twice the woman she was back then too (her: masters degree, great job, more confident, etc). I hope, likewise, i am twice the man.

 

[MatureDJ]

From a legal sense, for the most part, a marriage is only a contract that specifies financial savings comingling. If a couple doesn't save any money or acquire any debts, the desolving of a marriage doesn't have any consequences, since there is nothing to disolve. In a marriage in which the wife subsumes her career for her husband and family, there could be some temporary alimony. Of course, if the man is wealthy, there could be a more permanent alimony, but most of us here aren't wealthy like that.

As for the legal situation of children, the marriage contract has no bearing. A divorce would entail child support from the father, just as it would from a "baby daddy".

The big thing about a marriage is the social contract, which supplies friction to help keep the marriage together. Both parties may feel that since they have chosen someone to be their partner, that if later they don't feel as good about it, they can point to the fact that they made the commitment. The choice to have a child together generally gives a reason for even more of a commitment. But of course, with lower class people, the choice to have a baby doesn't matter so much.

The way I see it, cohabitation is simply a verbal commitment to marriage, such that savings or debts are not commingled. The thing about women is that a lot of them (especially the higher class ones) have pride so that they will only stay with a man if he is willing to make the formal commitment of marriage. For men, the important thing in a relationship is, "am I getting any from her".

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

This varies by individual, so I have 2:

1) Excellent children! I am so thankful for them.
2) Life experience.

I remember a thread recently on what are the top things people wanted to do. Despite the obvious massiveness of this institution, few put marriage on the list.

If you wish to become like tempered steel, you need to immerse your hot blade into some cold places.

So I pose a question to you that's similar to one I asked someone else in the thread; was getting married the only way to having excellent children and gaining life experience?

 

[PRMoon]

Raising kids in a normal environment has always been men's rationale for getting married, but lately it's become less of a requirement. Fifty years ago it was a pretty good place to be, but feminism, negative media portrayals of husbands, and a blatantly sexist judicial system have made marrying American women a mostly painful, unrewarding, expensive torment.

Of all my friends, two of them have marriages that I actually think are worthwhile because the women they married are willing to let them be who they are, don't attempt to control them or stifle them. But that's not normal. Most of the married guys I know have wives who harp on them about everything from remodeling the house, landscaping, getting a new car, going on vacation, staying home from work more, sending the kids to private school, you name it. American wives will bicker for decades about these things to feel power over their men, to impress their girlfriends and mothers, or just to keep their husband's attention out of insecurity. All the while, her respect for her husband erodes as her weight goes up and attractiveness declines. After a decade, you might not even be attracted to her, but you'll be more obligated than ever to provide for her.

This sure is the underlying message we get from women, isn't it? Boy they love for you to take this bait, too. They all believe it because it's true for women, because if they don't lock down a man and the "golden parachute" (good observation from somebody's earlier post in this thread), their girlfriends will make them feel like crap for the rest of their lives and they'll be stuck working for the rest of their lives. But it's not the case for men. The older men get, the more women think all men are taken, or gay. So really, you could easily wind up getting married late in the game, not "dying alone," playing doubles shuffleboard in a retirement community against another couple who's been married since age 25 -- without wasting your life busting your a$$ to shut some nagging shrew up, without going through any divorces, spending your life as you see fit.

I see what you're saying and this is definately true for most guys. I do however think that I'm outside of this definition. For some reason, most of the girls i've had lasting relationships with, have all been weathy. I don't just mean doing well in a bartending job, I mean parents are millionares, and they've got stock options in their names. I have no explination for why this happens other then citing my time in private school where I associated with rich chicks daily and maybe became kind of use to or attracted to this type. The effort is subconsious though. I don't go around asking girls if their rich or to see their bank account statments before I agree to go out with them. I look at them as normal girls, we start dating, sooner or later they break it too me that they've got money or i realize it myself.

I'm definately in the minority for this I know because most guys don't have this disopostion of sorts. It's doubtful that I'll have to do all that much providing for which ever girl I marry if I continue on the track i'm on. Not that I couldn't, because I make very good money for someoney my age but it's not even close to the sums that these girls are bank rolling. One of them refuses to let me pay for anything and offered to take me shopping for anything I wanted for christmas. The other wanted me to fly back with her to her family and was going to pay my rent and for my missed work for a month, neither of which is a small sum. Again, it's unintentional, but it's a truth none the less. I really just focus on having a good time and developing a good interpersonal relationships with girls. In essance I don't have too much to do other then marriage cause it'll likely be a quasi retirement for me where I'm not obligated to do all that much other then focus on being a good partner and hopefully quality parent.

 

[Latinoman]

Let me go out on a limb and and proclaim this to be one of the most succinct and important posts I've yet to read.

I actually agree. In fact...put things in perspective for many people (even those that were married before).