4th date, text flake - how should i respond?

Venom01

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Hey

This is our fourth date, she shows high IL through body language and speech. We talked last night and i told her i was a little under the weather and said we should do something low key like a movie and she said it was cool. She looked up the listings and we started to pick movies. We talked for a good hour (bad dj ethics i know.. but time flew by).

She sends me a text this morning - "Dan! i hope all that cod liver oil (gag) has helped you feel better :p I was talking to my best friend this morning - there's a going away party for one of our friends tonight, he's leaving for his masters. its kind of last minute thing, but i'm going to have to reschedule our plans"

Not sure how to respond back.

Any suggestions?
 

Cure

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Have you slept with her yet? kissed her?
Its most likly a genuine excuse. She may well have a friend who is going away and whos party she feels she cant miss.
That said, she is disrespecting you somthing awful cancelling at the last minute like that.
If you do choose to accept her reshedualling, dont let her dictate the terms of any future meet up, make sure you pick the time and place etc, and make your displeasure at her flake clear.
Hell, tell her she can make it up to you by cooking you dinner or somthing.
 

Venom01

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Ya we've kissed..

I was actually thinking of playing it off cool by saying something like "ok..I'll make other plans"

and not call her back and just wait to see if she calls back, and then gauge her interest levels again

I think the displeasure thing may come of wrong.. Should i make immediate plans by saying.. "If im better, lets work something out for tuesday"..


what do you think?
 

Zaraza

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She probably does have a friend who is leaving.

If its the 4th date... shes already stuck around for 3.

I would just tell her to enjoy her self, and that you would enjoy her company on "pick a day".

dont over think this too much.

things come up. Its life.
 

Ganondorf

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dont over analyze this

things happen, plans get canceled, no matter how into you a chick is

just wish her a good time and reschedule. I'm not going to tell you what to say, because i feel like you should be you and say something from your own game

don't take it personal. she has a life too you know.

just wish her the best and do something else
 

Ease

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Cure said:
Have you slept with her yet? kissed her?
Its most likly a genuine excuse. She may well have a friend who is going away and whos party she feels she cant miss.
That said, she is disrespecting you somthing awful cancelling at the last minute like that.
If you do choose to accept her reshedualling, dont let her dictate the terms of any future meet up, make sure you pick the time and place etc, and make your displeasure at her flake clear.
Hell, tell her she can make it up to you by cooking you dinner or somthing.
this was good^

i wouldnt worry but does noone else find this part a little strange?

but i'm going to have to reschedule our plans
why not:

'is it ok if we reschedule',
'can we reschedule',
'sorry' ????

no?

Its probably over-analysing, but could this be a **** test to see how you react to a rude last minute cancellation?
 

Venom01

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I guess its always good to post and update:

me: Enjoy yourself! call me this weekend lets see if we can work something out for tuesday...
her: Done Deal :) How're you feeling today?

me:you remember when that little girl got pushed off the slide in the orphan(movie we saw together)... like that

her: Lol that's TERRIBLE!! Hopefully your resting!



thats it!
 

Igetit!

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Venom01 said:
I guess its always good to post and update:

me: Enjoy yourself! call me this weekend lets see if we can work something out for tuesday...
her: Done Deal :) How're you feeling today?

me:you remember when that little girl got pushed off the slide in the orphan(movie we saw together)... like that

her: Lol that's TERRIBLE!! Hopefully your resting!
Snoozefest.

You better start generating some emotions in her real soon.

Otherwise you'll hear a "Let's just be friends" knocking at your door.
 

Venom01

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I wasn't satisfied how it was left so i sent one back:

me: LOL ok not that bad! i'm still goign to watch a movie tonight so im ok. I'll tell you if the ugly truth is any good.

Her: I;ll be looking forward to yoru review :p

damnit.. LOL NO EMOTION... i got some time i guess

hmm.. i mean i have been playing the emotional card..how do you think a girl with emotion would respond to that.. given that this girl is super conservative.


She's obviously gonna call this weekend, and i'll tell her straight i went out friday with a friend to a movie to see (the movie we were supposed to watch together). That should strike up some emotion.
 
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Igetit!

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Venom01 said:
I wasn't satisfied how it was left so i sent one back:

me: LOL ok not that bad! i'm still goign to watch a movie tonight so im ok. I'll tell you if the ugly truth is any good.

Her: I;ll be looking forward to yoru review :p

damnit.. LOL NO EMOTION... i got some time i guess
Yeah,I didn't detect any feeling or emotion there either. I think you're ok,BUT...the clock is ticking. The longer you go without generating any feelings in her,the closer you get to being friendzoned.

Venom01 said:
hmm.. i mean i have been playing the emotional card..how do you think a girl with emotion would respond to that.. given that this girl is super conservative.
How would she respond to what? And it makes NO DIFFERENCE with her being conservative or not.

A man may be conservative,but that doesn't negate his desire for sex.
A woman being conservative won't curb her desire for passion/chemistry.


Venom01 said:
She's obviously gonna call this weekend, and i'll tell her straight i went out friday with a friend to a movie to see (the movie we were supposed to watch together). That should strike up some emotion.
Yeah this might do it,but...hmm,this will probably make her angry.

I KNOW,I KNOW,I'm always saying that it's better to make a woman angry than make her feel nothing at all,and that's true,however,I wouldn't use that as my first option.

The reason I'd be hesistant to use something like you suggested to stir up her emotions is because you don't won't to go waaay out of your character to do it. Otherwise,she won't have any trust/comfort towards you because she won't know who you are.

It'll be like you were one way when she met you,then a few days later,all of the sudden out of left field,you're behavior COMPLETELY changed.

She won't trust you.

It would be helpful to know how conversations generally go between you two.

What do you two normally talk about?

Who out of the two of you talks the most?

How often do you two talk?

Try to answer these questions what you two talk abouty. as accurately as you can,especially the one about
 

Venom01

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What do you two normally talk about?

- we talk about funny things that are currently happening or have happened in our past. We both have a sarcastic attitude so we play off on that (ie. if we see someone who is all muscular i'll turn to her and say, "that guy is weak" and she'll laugh.) Yesterday we talked about funny things that happened on past jobs that she had. Which stemmed into many conversations and then ultimately going back to other funny job things. She talked about the times she worked at the doctors office and at a drug store and all the funny things she could remember from their.

- She asked about my day and I told her i went to a BBQ and i told her that we just played on the guitar and drums all day. Then we played homerun derby. She wanted to know more about home run derby..etc.

- We talked about nicknames that we've gotten growing up in the past.. she told me stories of how she got her, and how she writes letters to her sister using her nicknames.

-she tells me funny stories about her niece and nephew and things that they do.

- I told her i was under the weather and couldn't do what was originally planned which was to take her to the horse race track at night, and we'd have to do something low key. She told me she was sick last week and maybe she gave me the cold.

So asked her if she wanted to do a movie and she said, ya thats great, and so she pulled out the movie section and looked for movies she wanted to watch. I told her to pick one, because i picked the last one. She went through the paper naming some movies and i told her lets just go to the theater and just go with a random one.. i told her we'd probably just talk through any time in between and she said.. ya thats cool.

Generally little seriousness all fun and games. Whether it's on the phone or in person. I traditionally talk about what ever the conversation is on, and I bring in my friends here and there and tell stories from the weekend of what we did. I make sure i ask her how her day is, and she'll tell me a story about people who come in, and i'll tell her how my day was.. just sticking to whatever will make her laugh, and she'll tell me things of what made her laugh during the day.

The only serious conversations we had is:
- I used to work at restaurant and the manager was my gym teacher and at grad someone posted in their year book that they had sex with him, he got arrested and got sent to jail, and he died yesterday.. shes like wow thats messed up.. shes like how do you know this.. im like my buddy john told me.. shes like how does he know.. then i said.. i donno through the grape vine.. and she laughed.

- we talked about youths and how their in a cyclical cycle and its hard for them to get out of it because they are forced to commit crimes to 'fit in' or be accepted by their peers which kinda hurts their chances of progressing in life. We then asked each other if we would hire someone who had a criminal record...


Who out of you two talks the most?
- I make sure its more her talking and then i'll shove in a story hear or there if i hear it getting dry. I would say its 50/50 though because she does ask questions. I find myself leading some of the questions and probing for more details.

You can tell shes still kinda nervous on the phone, based on how fast shes talking and when she says certain things during the conversation.

How often do you talk?
- Every two to three days.
 

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Venom01 said:
What do you two normally talk about?

- we talk about funny things that are currently happening or have happened in our past. We both have a sarcastic attitude so we play off on that. Yesterday we talked about funny things that happened on past jobs that she had. Which stemmed into many conversations and then ultimately going back to other funny job things. She talked about the times she worked at the doctors office and at a drug store and all the funny things she could remember from their.

- She asked about my day and I told her i went to a BBQ and i told her that we just played on the guitar and drums all day. Then we played homerun derby. She wanted to know more about home run derby..etc.

- We talked about nicknames that we've gotten growing up in the past.. she told me stories of how she got her, and how she writes letters to her sister using her nicknames.

-she tells me funny stories about her niece and nephew and things that they do.

Generally nothing serious all fun and games.
Fun and games,huh? Well this is all ok.but I sensed NO SEXUALITY here.

None.

These types of conversations could take place between two men or two women,and no one would think anything weird was going on.

Let me ask you this...

Would you feel uncomfortable saying anything sexual to her? Not vulgar,just something a boyfriend might say to his girlfriend. Something like this:

you:I like that shirt you're wearing. You know why?
her:Why?
you:Because it's thin and I can see through it. You need to wear it more often.

Would something like that feel weird or strange for you to say? Do you think she would be offended if you said something like that to her? Because if so,you're a heck of a lot closer to the friendzone than you realize.

Stuff like that shouldn't feel odd or weird to say to a girl who knows you have a sexual interest in her.


Venom0 said:
Whether it's on the phone or in person. I traditionally talk about what ever the conversation is on, and I bring in my friends here and there and tell stories from the weekend of what we did. I make sure i ask her how her day is, and she'll tell me a story about people who come in, and i'll tell her how my day was.. just sticking to whatever will make her laugh, and she'll tell me things of what made her laugh during the day.
While this is all fine and dandy,it needs to come AFTER ATTRACTION HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED. If you've been talking like this to her from the very beginning,you may ALREADY BE in the friendzone.

Let's hope not though.

Venom01 said:
of you two talks the most?
- I make sure its more her talking and then i'll shove in a story hear or there if i hear it getting dry. I would say its 50/50 though because she does ask questions. I find myself leading some of the questions and probing for more details.
So she leads and directs most of the conversations.

That's bad.

I say that because I'm certain she doesn't direct the convo onto the TWO OF YOU. It's like when a guy takes a girl out to a nice restaurant for a date,then afterwards,when her friends ask her about the date,she talks more about the restaurant and the food than she does about the guy she went with.

If she likes the guy,she'll talk about him,but if not,she'll talk more about where they went,or what they did.

Seems to me like she's talking about anything and everything other than the two of you. Hopefully I'm mistaken.

It's not bad that she talks a lot...IF you direct the convo onto the two of you. If you sit back and just let her ramble on,who know where the conversation will end up.

Just stir the convo in a more romantic/sexual direction..and I don't mean in general,I mean about the two of you.

If she seems uncomfortable when you do this,then I'm sorry,your probably friendzoned.
 

Venom01

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I'm very much interested in the study of emotions..

However, do you think that a girls that put on their guard (based on past damaging emotional experiences) should have the same principles applied to them?

This case in particular this girl is very much reserved in trusting people. As the dates progress from 1 to date 3 shes become more open with touching, expressing her body language and the speech that she uses (ie. lets have a bet in the winter to see who can make the best fire). Really this girl was met in some random club somewhere, I talked to her briefly got her number and we started talking on the phone and had our first date.. she has no recollection of who i am and what kind of damage I can do to her if she were to open up.

I completely agree with her that the sexual level is not present, and needs to be engaged soon. However, each date is progressing to her being more open with her body and wanting to touch more and more.

Realistically if you touch a hot stove and you've got burnt, then your not going to jump full force the next time to touch it if you know you got burnt already. You'll probably ease into it and see how hot it is before you pursue.. no?

Pain felt through your sensory receptors can be just as damaging as pain felt through your emotions.

- I remember her mentioning a psycho boyfriend and it being one year ago (dropped the subject like a bad habit as soon as she said this). Majority of guys would say "next" this girl, but generally you don't know at what stage of healing she is in, and judge her on her level of wanting to guard herself from being hurt.
 

bukowski_merit

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WOW! just... wow!


Venom01 said:
I'm very much interested in the study of emotions..

However, do you think that a girls that put on their guard (based on past damaging emotional experiences) should have the same principles applied to them?
YES! Even more so. Even if this doesn't make a lot of sense to you. I can assure you that damaged women respond better to men who could possibly damage them more.



This case in particular this girl is very much reserved in trusting people. As the dates progress from 1 to date 3 shes become more open with touching, expressing her body language and the speech that she uses (ie. lets have a bet in the winter to see who can make the best fire). Really this girl was met in some random club somewhere, I talked to her briefly got her number and we started talking on the phone and had our first date.. she has no recollection of who i am and what kind of damage I can do to her if she were to open up.
she said: "let's have a bet in the winter to see who can make the best fire?"

I hope you followed up with a sexual comment to that, and didn't just say "awe man, i can make the best fire, you're so dead in the winter time."



I completely agree with her that the sexual level is not present, and needs to be engaged soon. However, each date is progressing to her being more open with her body and wanting to touch more and more.
Conservative or not - no girl is getting past a 3rd date with me without some very heavy petting and at the least swallowing. I'm not saying that your way won't work, because it will about 1 out of 5 times (which makes guys keep doing it)... but being so d@mn passive and WAITING for her to allow more "touching" and opening up WITHOUT taking her out of her usual mundane life - is a serious problem... But let's say you happen to hit that 20% chance of your way working.... She will own this relationship as she's given permission every step of the way!



Realistically if you touch a hot stove and you've got burnt, then your not going to jump full force the next time to touch it if you know you got burnt already. You'll probably ease into it and see how hot it is before you pursue.. no?
Why are you saying "realistically" when we're discussing women??? Realistically women would rather touch a hot stove if it was connected to a man with some balls!



- I remember her mentioning a psycho boyfriend and it being one year ago (dropped the subject like a bad habit as soon as she said this). Majority of guys would say "next" this girl, but generally you don't know at what stage of healing she is in, and judge her on her level of wanting to guard herself from being hurt.

Why drop the subject? You could have elicited value from her... found our why she stayed with him... found out what she liked about him... if you got brave - found out when they had the best sex (was it after an argument or after a romantic evening). that information has infinite value.

Stage of healing??? You been reading Dr. Phil books or something?

She's not guarding herself from being hurt... she's drowning in normalcy.

---

fvck not analyzing! take a walk with me through her thinking...

HER: "Dan! i hope all that cod liver oil (gag) has helped you feel better :p"

Blah blah... she didn't want to start the text telling you she didn't want to hang out. so she trys to soften it by "acting" like she gives a sh!t.


I was talking to my best friend this morning - there's a going away party for one of our friends tonight, he's leaving for his masters.

I'm not drinking the kool-aid that says she's probably telling the truth. I've witnessed many times a conversation between women that goes like this:

GIRL 1: Yeah his d!ck was sooo big and i could barely handle it... Well anyway... What you doing tonight?
GIRL 2 (girl with plans with you): I have plans with Dan.
GIRL 1: Dan?
GIRL 2: Yeah, he's this good guy i've been on a few dates with. He's cool.
GIRL 1: Well there's this big party at Brads tonight. EVERYONE will be there.
GIRL 2: Yeah, but i have this date planned with Dan. I don't want to hurt his feelings.
GIRL 1: Ok... (Seemingly annoyed!)

(15 minutes later)

GIRL 2: I really want to go to that party. I'll just tell him we need to reschedule. But first i need an excuse... (while thinking in her head "ahhh yeah, i'll tell him the epic "my last chance to see "so and so" friend" excuse.)


---
 

guywhoneedshelp

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Venom01 said:
Hey

This is our fourth date, she shows high IL through body language and speech. We talked last night and i told her i was a little under the weather and said we should do something low key like a movie and she said it was cool. She looked up the listings and we started to pick movies. We talked for a good hour (bad dj ethics i know.. but time flew by).

She sends me a text this morning - "Dan! i hope all that cod liver oil (gag) has helped you feel better :p I was talking to my best friend this morning - there's a going away party for one of our friends tonight, he's leaving for his masters. its kind of last minute thing, but i'm going to have to reschedule our plans"

Not sure how to respond back.

Any suggestions?
Just don't care. Act like it never happened. Try hanging out again, maybe it will work, maybe it wont. That's life.
 

Venom01

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Not really caring if it works out or not.. i don't have any expectations. I have alot of self respect for myself and have worked hard at attaining value.

BUT.. i am learning from the process...
I tend to be trigger happy, 'next' girls pretty quickly.


Really we can open up the discussion again of how long it will take to get in a girls pants, but i think its completely subjective (not only in the area you live in and socioeconomic class, culture.. not to mention slutty vs conservatives). if your getting rinses by the third date.. thats some quality broad you got their (i've been there and done that.. I'm switching to a new arena). Every broad i've ****ed earlier then 4 dates, i think back and realize how slutty they were... way to easy.. Theres tons of stories on here about guys who have waited.. why.. cause they realized that theres probably more to this broad then just her looks. Not to mention the other pieces of ass their getting on the side, so why not take the opportunity to wait.
I dont think we need another thread discussing this..

Either way this girl is gonna get another shot for the sake of this forum and not be nexted.
 

Ease

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Girls want a guy that makes moves, they want to be touched and kissed. Get over your own anxiety of making the move on her and being flirty with her, and stop making excuses.

I know because iv been there with the girl im currently dating! I was trying to be conservative untill i realized how boring things were getting.

Stage of healing??? You been reading Dr. Phil books or something?

She's not guarding herself from being hurt... she's drowning in normalcy.
this was good.^
 

909pua

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why are you going on dates? dates = no sex most of the time. you should treat it more like an outing than a date. and your goal should have been to f close the first night. she lost interest in you for taking it to the 4th date and is wondering how long this will go on for.

if she flakes, forget her and don't text or call back! i'm learning my lesson the hard way and this is the advice i can give you to cut your losses.
 

909pua

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Venom01 said:
Ya we've kissed..

I was actually thinking of playing it off cool by saying something like "ok..I'll make other plans"

and not call her back and just wait to see if she calls back, and then gauge her interest levels again

I think the displeasure thing may come of wrong.. Should i make immediate plans by saying.. "If im better, lets work something out for tuesday"..


what do you think?
in my opinion, kissing is not a dominant image that you give to a girl. You can kiss but if that's the only thing you do and not take it to the next step, the girl will lose interest in you. A girl wants a man to bone tha sh&# out of her, not kiss the Sh#$ out of her....
 

Venom01

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Ok So here is the update:

Didn't get a call after the 4th day and decided to send a text saying, "everything ok?" She sends a text back saying, "that she wants to talk to me tonight"

She calls, I answers and we talk.. I felt that something was up but couldn't figure it out so i kinda said, lets spill the beans on everything.

- I told her that their was something about us that wasn't clicking and I'm not sure if it was the physical chemistry or just the nervousness that was impeding that. She completely agreed and said she wasn't sure either, so i suggested maybe its best if we come clean on somethings. She told me that she kinda felt rushed when i made a move on the second date, she said that she just got out of a relationship and she just felt she didnt know me that well enough to go through with it (but she did anyway). She also told me that I was perfect and i was just so smooth with everything the lines and the nights out and it made he question if everything. She actually said to me, 'i wondered if i was part of some experiment"

- I kinda talked her through everything and cleared things up using some more smooth talk. I asked her if she wanted to try again, but slower? and she said, ya we can see where things go. So i asked her what kind of things does she want to do together (advice taken from this thread). She said, anything.. she said even a movie would do, and i said, "waht do you like to do" and she said, she loves to take walks. So i suggested that we go for a walk out of town for a bit, and she said it sounded great. I told her if it made her uncomfortable kissing then I wouldnt press that on her.. (so no kissing).. forsure friendzone.. but im determined i can break this

Anyways.. gonna tone down the DJ'ing for a bit, and lets see where this goes. I'm not gonna write this off yet, I'll give her the time of day and lets see if i can actually get some chemistry flowing here, now that i know whats going on in her head.

- I also found out im the only guy shes seeing, meaning shes gonna want some more attention.
 
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