2012 Election [All discussion here]

[Robert28]

My dad told me that white people who vote for Obama are traitors to their own race. If he thinks that, I would guess that millions more uneducated white people feel the same way. It's not any coincidence that Romney won every state of the Confederacy except VA. What I like about Obama is that a lot of racist people vote against him because he's not white, but he still wins anyway.

hmmm when I studied history and the Civil War, Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Montana, Nebraska, Wyoming, South Dakota and Utah were never mentioned as being "in the Confederacy". must be that "new" history that the liberal schools are teaching these days while they pass out free condoms to children. Romney also did not win every state in the Confederacy except Virginia. Florida was undecided but last I heard Obama won by a slight margin. if you want to attack someone for voting for Romney, fine, but don't spit out a bunch of b.s. and try to make it fact. I could sit here and say that all the blacks that voted for Obama did so simply because he is half black. that's a stupid argument. we didn't lose because of some blacks voting for Obama. hell, the republicans picked up a good many black voters if you want to know the cold hard truth. what beat our @$$ was these d@mn single women with 7 kids that like to lay on their backs and make babies instead of work. we just didn't realize there were so many of them out there. we also lost the Hispanic vote, but not by the margin we lost it under McCain. we aimed for 30% and I think we ended up with 26% of the hispanic vote. the young vote hurt us badly also. bunch of first time voters relate better to Obama then they do a guy like Romney. they'll change their views when they turn 30 and life hits them in the face though.

 

[Married Buried]

Let me put it into perspective for you guys and gals. this is what the GOP was up against last night, this is who put Obama back in office. a 33yr old single mom of FIVE kids, no job, "hopes to finish school" as long as you're paying for it why the hell not, wants to meet a man with a southern accent in WASHINGTON STATE of all places (hopefully geography isn't her major in college), and who the hell puts Obama as one of their likes on their profile? wtf is that about? an Obama fanatic? hey I'm a Chicago Bears fan but for fvcks sake, they don't have sh!t to do with who i date or not.

http://www.pof.com/viewprofile.aspx?profile_id=30836285

now you know why we lost last night. I feel better already, don't you?

You did not lose the election because of fat sluts. You lost it because Romney was a horrible candidate. He was a piece of sh!t. You had a chance with Ron Paul but blew it.

 

[BMX]

Women are still voting with their vaginas...SMH

 

[Warrior74]

I live in a red state so I knew my vote wasn't "thrown away". It wasn't going to hurt or help either guy. I'm just sad Gary Johnson didn't get 5% of the vote. I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I think that voice is needed in the GOP and mainstream politics. I would have liked to seen that voice at the table 4 years from now. Still 1 million people voted for reason and sanity, so all isn't lost.

When I was a kid I voted for Clinton because he was cool and a democrat and I had been raised in a democratic household. I voted for Gore and got my first dose of real disappointment in the system. I sat it out on Bush and Kerry. I really didn't care for Kerry, I am a southerner and there was nothing there to connect with, he just seemed bland and empty with no balls(kinda like what I think of Romney), and I though I didn't like Bush I liked how he handled 911, but I hated the patriot act.

I would have voted for anyone who promised not to be Bush, so Obama got my vote. I've been disillusioned with Barry on the issues I cared about (civil liberties, the war, gitmo, patriot act, net neutrality, bailouts and healthcare), Romney never gave a solid plan to fix anything, nor seemed to stand for or against anything, I just couldn't trust that guy. His campaign was disgusting to me.

I looked into what Gary Johnson stood for and found that I liked his stance. This time I voted my conscious and it's the best I ever felt when leaving the voting booth.

 

[Married Buried]

I voted for Gore and got my first dose of real disappointment in the system. I sat it out on Bush and Kerry. I really didn't care for Kerry, I am a southerner and there was nothing there to connect with, he just seemed bland and empty with no balls(kinda like what I think of Romney), and I though I didn't like Bush I liked how he handled 911, but I hated the patriot act.

I would have voted for anyone who promised not to be Bush, so Obama got my vote. I've been disillusioned with Barry on the issues I cared about (civil liberties, the war, gitmo, patriot act, net neutrality, bailouts and healthcare), Romney never gave a solid plan to fix anything, nor seemed to stand for or against anything, I just couldn't trust that guy. His campaign was disgusting to me.

I looked into what Gary Johnson stood for and found that I liked his stance. This time I voted my conscious and it's the best I ever felt when leaving the voting booth.

I never voted for Gore, I voted for Nader. The choice between Bush and Gore was horrible. I rather shoot myself in the face than vote for either of them. Nader was the man.

 

[backbreaker]

no

You did not lose the election because of fat sluts. You lost it because Romney was a horrible candidate. He was a piece of sh!t. You had a chance with Ron Paul but blew it.

Ron Paul is just not electable. and it has nothing to do with his policies though some are a tad out there.

the guy has baggage, rightfully or wrongfully. there are ust some people that beucase of **** they have said or done in the past never will get a fair shot. Ted Kennedy Jr was like that beucase of the murder thing that happened when he was younger. if he were ever taken seriously in a primary he'd get worked over and if he somehow made it out alive, he'd get massacured in the general election.

Chris Chrstie is the GOP's best bet IMHO. he's conservative but he's not a neocon like most GOP people are today. a lot of blue dog dems would dig Christie.

 

[Fatal Jay]

Both choices were bad choices, coming from a black guy from the hood, Obama is going to put this country into deeper debt. The thing is, he is only taking orders from the real players, and that's the vadican in Rome. Get ready people, get ready for one religion and one world currency they devalued the dollar on purpose that has been the agenda the whole time to be totally controlled by the elite.

 

[Leporello]

I voted for Obama because I have a pre-existing medical condition and without the ACA I might never get health care.

I think he's better for the country in general, but that's my opinion...I doubt it has to do with race. You think if Herman Cain got the GOP nomination he'd get more than 5% of the black vote? Dream on.

Truth is, the GOP isn't just 'out of touch' with the black community; as far as Republicans are concerned, black people are the bad guys. How much race-baiting do they have to do to make it clear? Sure, plausible deniability means that very few overtly racial statements get out, but as Republican strategist Lee Atwater once said 'You can't say n!gger anymore, so instead you say 'let's cut taxes.'."

 

[Robert28]

I gotta agree with what Danger is saying. However all you Paulbots and Gary Johnson lovers are crazy if you think they could have beaten Obummer. Honestly my man from the start was Herman Cain. Love that guy! Him or Allen West would stomp some Obama a** any day of the week if given the chance! Obama would lose half the black vote and would have to really do work to win. I hate the entire democrat party not just Obama.

 

[backbreaker]

if you are familar wtih AA, you know that part of the 12 traditions of AA is that they don't under any circumstances talk politics or lend their name to any political organizations. There are 2 reasons for that, the first being that if they did it would no longer be Anonymous lol. But more importantly, is that it jades/blurs the message of AA in the first place; a lot of people in AA are on their last rope and you don't want someone to not get something beucse they dont' like who another person voted for or another persons political ideology and has mentally decided to tune them out.

That's generally why I don't talk politics here. Not that i dont' know what I'm talking about.. but that's not why I'm here. I don't want anyone to look at me differently beucase i might not vote the same as they do; we aren't here for that.

I'll leave with that. we all get happy / political around election time but seriously this isn't the place. If you read Rollo's blog, as i am sure most of you do, he considers AFCness to be a mental disease. I don't necessarily disagree. If that is the case, i don't want people to not get the treatment they need for their diease beucase they have tuned x or y or z out.

 

[Bokanovsky]

I think he's better for the country in general, but that's my opinion...

I can't see how any candidate can be better for the country in general in the current political climate. America is effectively in a state of class warfare. Roughly half of all Americans pay no income taxes, which means that the other half is forced to carry their weight. Those who get a free ride will always vote for a candidate who promises to continue giving them something for nothing, be in free healthcare, food stamps, etc. The other half will, of course, be inclined to vote for someone who promises to cut taxes and lighten their burden. The truly scary part is that the "gimme gimmes" are beginning to outnumber the productive members of society. You don't need a phd in economics to figure out why that's not sustainable.

 

[Bokanovsky]

I gotta agree with what Danger is saying. However all you Paulbots and Gary Johnson lovers are crazy if you think they could have beaten Obummer. Honestly my man from the start was Herman Cain. Love that guy! Him or Allen West would stomp some Obama a** any day of the week if given the chance! Obama would lose half the black vote and would have to really do work to win. I hate the entire democrat party not just Obama.

Ron Paul and Gary Johnson will never get elected for the simple reason that women will never vote for a libertarian candidate. The basic, fundamental principles behind the libertarian ideology - self-sufficiency and self-reliance - are inherently masculine in nature. As someone else aptly remarked, women see the nanny state as a kind of a beta provider - a reliable safety net that they can always fall back on to be rescued from the consequences of their bad choices. And even successful women, who probably will not need that safety net, are on a subliminal level terrified of the idea of being on their own.

On top of that, the "gimme gimme" underclass will never vote for a libertarian candiate either. And why should they be expected to vote for someone who would take away their freebies?

 

[Leporello]

I can't see how any candidate can be better for the country in general in the current political climate. America is effectively in a state of class warfare. Roughly half of all Americans pay no income taxes, which means that the other half is forced to carry their weight. Those who get a free ride will always vote for a candidate who promises to continue giving them something for nothing, be in free healthcare, food stamps, etc. The other half will, of course, be inclined to vote for someone who promises to cut taxes and lighten their burden. The truly scary part is that the "gimme gimmes" are beginning to outnumber the productive members of society. You don't need a phd in economics to figure out why that's not sustainable.

Oh man, you're one of those tiresome people who actually believes a person's income is a direct reflection of their economic contribution.

This has been talked to death and yet you guys never seem to learn...people who don't earn enough to pay income taxes still pay taxes, whether through sales tax or excise tax or payroll taxes. And the fact that they don't GET much money for their work doesn't mean that their labor doesn't PRODUCE wealth...in fact, worker productivity in the US has never been higher.

In a capitalist economy, unemployment is inevitable. The question is what can be done about it. Saying that those left behind by the market are getting a 'free ride' is downright silly...have you ever tried to survive like that? I've worked in urban employment centers and the welfare life is bleak bleak bleak.

 

[5string]

In this society, there are two types of people. Those who sign checks, and those who endorse them.

 

[backbreaker]

this isn't mine, but i saw this on a political forum I do post on and thought i would share it here. this is the type of conversation i' used to having with people about politics. I could not have possibly said any of this any better

The American People Outright Rejected Modern GOP Philosphy..

Okay, so the GOP lost a winnable election. The last 4 years the economy has been sluggish. Unemployment high. gridlock in Washington. Social Welfare increased. Etc etc. All of these things should have made it easy for a Republican to win the White House. Four years ago I assumed whoever won would be a 1 termer because the economy would not recover fast enough. I never thought the Republican philosophy would move so far to the right.

This isn't a thread to bash the GOP. But here is some truth. Mitt Romney lost badly among all minorities, single women, and single men. And all these voters are increasing while the others are decreasing. The old, married white vote cannot carry an election anymore.

Now, the GOP will still be relevant in local/state politics because they can cater to the constituency and same with the House. But their irrelevancy will grow among the Senate and the GOP without a major reform. Some have and will argue they need to move further right but that is actually their problem.

Anyway, IMO, this is what I believe the GOP will have to do to become a party of consequence again.

1. Stance on Homosexuals - 3 states just approved gay marriage and another denied a ban. That adds to the growing list. Newsflash: Gay Marriage is coming nationally and it's coming soon. The GOP is going to have to reform its position here because being gay is now in the mainstream. Maybe you don't have to accept gay marriage, but there should be a civil union movement at least nationally. And stop bashing them. You lost this battle.

2. Immigration - The GOP garnered 25% of the latino vote. Newsflash: it's your immigration stance. The GOP will have to come to the table with the belief that most illegals here will have to be assimilated. There are numerous ways the GOP can decide to do this but "self-deportation" and "deportation" isn't a solution and it won't garner latino votes. You lost this battle.

3. Abortion - You can be pro-life still and that's not a problem. What you cannot be is against abortion in the cases of rape, incest, or health of the mother. That fight is over. More importantly, you must eradicate the party of the abortion crazies like Akin. The "forcible rape" and other things make women look at your party as a bunch of nutcases. And the fear is that what these guys say is what you really believe. What needs to be done is to ensure the Akin idiots are no where near national elections and if one slips through the entire party must loudly repudiate him. You cannot win this battle.

4. Trickle-Down Economics - It's dead. On the issue of the economy Mitt Romney barely won nationally (like 3-4 points). Most people said the economy was bleh and still basically were split 50/50 on who is better for the economy. By an overwhelming margin people said Bush was more to blame for the economy than Obama. People are plainly saying we don't believe in trickle-down anymore. And for good reason, it's been demonstrably proven wrong. This is not to say you can't fight for tax reform or tax cuts or spending cuts. You can do so and successfully. But stop pretending cutting taxes on the wealthy or "job creators" is the way to solve the problem. Most people also said we should raise taxes on the wealthy. If Romney had proposed tax cuts for everyone but the wealthy and small tax raises on the wealthy, there's a good chance he'd have won. The GOP has tons are arguments to make in this realm but no longer based on trickle-down economics. You lost this battle.

5. Healthcare - You cannot have no plan for healthcare other than "leave it to the states" since that hasn't worked ever. I'm not telling you what your plan has to be but it has to be something. You ran for 2 years on repealing Obamacare, which the nation actually agreed with you on, but then provided no alternative at all. You cannot come to the table and say "your plan sucks but we have no plan." If you offer no choice then you won't be picked. You cannot win this battle without ammo.

6. Women's rights - Can someone explain to me why the GOP was even against Lily-Ledbetter? Do you not see how bad the optics are for this? Can't even stand up and say that women should have equal pay for equal work? WTF decade are you living in? And demonizing women for wanting contraception? Look, you want to make the argument that they shouldn't have contraception paid for, fine. Make it. But don't go around calling those women *****s. No one is going to take you seriously when you act like *******s. Your opinions on some of these issues may very well be valid but the way you present your argument turns off everyone from listening.

7. Anti-intellectualism: The hate against educational institutions, science, math, etc has to stop. Arguing any of these things as a negative is really short-sighted. You should be embracing these things, not shunning them.

8. Energy policy: it cannot be all about oil and coal, anymore. Come to the table with real ideas. Obama's approach may be wrong but you offer no alternatives besides the same old crap that we know isn't enough.

9. Global Warming: It's time to accept that it's real and most likely man-made. The question becomes how do we address it? That is where you need to bring ideas into the fold (this also ties in with #7 &#8, of course). When you simply deny what overwhelming amount of scientists claim to know and then ignore it, you look foolish. Granted this issue isn't that big right now, but it is an issue you will lose and continue to lose.

10. Stop denigrating everyone, especially minorities - Newsflash: most people on welfare don't want to be there and are there because they're down on their luck. Most have paid into the system in the past. Most people are not moochers and don't like being on the government's tit. Stop mentioning welfare queens. When you attack these people you look like you have no empathy. Start working on helping these people rather than shaming them.


The GOP might not have to adhere to all 10 at once, and the top half IMO is the most important, but these things must be done. It's time for a real self-examination. I need a not-insane GOP to come back because right now as an independent you leave me no choice between the two parties when push comes to shove.

If most of the above doesn't change, the irrelevancy on the national stage will continue. The House seats will come, too. And if the economy comes back, as most expect, a Dem will win in 2016. And think about this, the states of Georgia are getting bluer. Minorities are increasing, old white people are shrinking. And without the Presidency in 2016 the SCOTUS will become quite liberal setting up 20+ years of liberal judicial rule.

Paul Ryan is not the future of your party, he is your past. Push him if you want to lose again and again.

And if you think that just by simply putting up tokens like Martinez or Rubio or Rice you will fix these problems, you're wrong. The American electorate can see through it (that is not they say they can't successfully run but only once the reformation occurs).

I'm sure I missed some things, you're free to add to it or dispute what I say. I want this thread to be about more honest discussion about the GOP's need for self-reflection and what needs to change to become a mainstream party again.

 

[Robert28]

Not a word about foreign policy or civil liberties even though Obama was considered to be the "peace" candidate relative to Romney? I'll get the rest of this after class.

the only things I noticed in that list that BB posted are "me, me, me, me". what can I get out of it, what's in it for ME....to hell with the country.

 

[perseverance]

the only things I noticed in that list that BB posted are "me, me, me, me". what can I get out of it, what's in it for ME....to hell with the country.

That's Capitalism baby, that's what made American dreams is it not? A free market where men brave enough and astute enough could make millions and millions off the backs of others.

 

[Mike32ct]

Sadly, the liberal media will destroy any promising female or minority GOP candidates.

As much as they complain about GOP candidates being old white men, the left has a vested interest in keeping it that way. They are perceived as easier to defeat.

 

[Bokanovsky]

That's Capitalism baby, that's what made American dreams is it not? A free market where men brave enough and astute enough could make millions and millions off the backs of others.

Hard work, intelligence and perseverance made the American dream. Living off of government handouts certainly did not.

 

[Married Buried]

no Ron Paul is just not electable. and it has nothing to do with his policies though some are a tad out there.

I don't agree. I think Ron Paul had a great chance of winning if he got the nomination. I think if he ran as an independent he could have won.