10 Years On

[DJDamage]

Thanx rollo for your response. Now what is your take on woman getting pregnant and after delievering the baby, they don't get into shape, can't gain back their figure and instead keep on packing on the pounds? I don't think it happened in your case but I see this pattern happening in many marriages.

 

[penkitten]

Thanx rollo for your response. Now what is your take on woman getting pregnant and after delievering the baby, they don't get into shape, can't gain back their figure and instead keep on packing on the pounds? I don't think it happened in your case but I see this pattern happening in many marriages.

damage, not all of us put on tons of weight. i never did.
however, i too have noticed alot of people in general are just getting bigger and bigger these days, doing less physical things and packing in the junk food.
we have just got to watch things like that, turn off the tv and talk a walk sometimes. its not just women getting bigger, its men too.

 

[dietzcoi]

Squirrels

Welcome to the "real world". Once you are out of the matrix, you will never find a good reason to marry and limit your freedom. I don't understand for a second men who want to marry. Are they just afraid of being alone? to my mind, that just makes them AFC. Love is just a chemical reaction in the brain. Nature wants us to reproduce.. that is why we feel "love".

Penkitten

Yes, men are getting fatter.. but does that justify a wife getting fat when her husband is in shape? I have seen hundreds of fat army wives over here...the husbands are in shape due to the military and the wives just get fat.

Rollo T. - WHat IS your take on a marriage when the woman becomes fat or a lunatic or joins a cult or whatever? Even DJ tactics cannot cure a woman who goes nuts.

Dietzcoi

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Thanx rollo for your response. Now what is your take on woman getting pregnant and after delievering the baby, they don't get into shape, can't gain back their figure and instead keep on packing on the pounds?

What I'm going to type here would get me run up the flag pole in public conversation, but the weight gain from pregnancy line is the biggest social contrivances ever to benefit women. I personally know women with 3 children who could compete in the Fitness America pagent. My wife at 42 still has defineable 6 pack abs and not a hint of cellulite on her ass. She looks better than most women half her age and actively takes care of herself.

The "I got fat after the first kid" excuse is yet one more contrivance that let's women who get comfortable in their lives off the hook. IMHO women who wont apply the effort it takes to get back into their prior shape are disrespecting the men they married (assuming they are). Men's one criteria for intimacy is physical attraction (as compared to the laundry list women expect of men) and when a man decides to commit to monogamy/marriage with that woman as his sole source of sex, it is a slap in the face to him when she visibly doesn't respect his one condition. Guys get the 'raw deal' feeling when this happens - they keep up with their end of the contract by striving for all of the things she expects of him while she makes up excuses for not holding to the one thing he expects from her; and all the while society at large confirms and backs up her excuse and calls him the A-Hole for not loving her for who she is. Obviously people age and looks fade over time, but it's not the biology so much as the desire expressed in maintaining ones fitness. This in no way excuses men from getting porky after marriage either. Desire is going to cool somewhat as it is after commitment, when you add to this a lack of arousal on either person's part, you're only asking for trouble.

Rollo T. - WHat IS your take on a marriage when the woman becomes fat or a lunatic or joins a cult or whatever? Even DJ tactics cannot cure a woman who goes nuts.

See above, and you're correct, but bear in mind that people almost never compartmentalize their lives. By that I mean, if you have a chick who's a psychotic in bed and is into the crazy sex, she's also a psychotic out of bed and will more often than not bring her psychosis to your everyday life. With this in mind, buyer beware. I can't tell you how many people I've counseled with an alcoholic spouse whom they KNEW beforehand had a drinking problem or had a propensity for it. Or guys that get wrapped up in a religious girl who was a sex freak before marriage and want to 'get right' after marriage and deprive the guy of sex after his name's on the contract. They KNEW things like this beforehand, but due to their ONEitis or lack of options they made a decision that trapped them.

 

[Vulpine]

The "I got fat after the first kid" excuse is yet one more contrivance that let's women who get comfortable in their lives off the hook. IMHO women who wont apply the effort it takes to get back into their prior shape are disrespecting the men they married (assuming they are). Men's one criteria for intimacy is physical attraction (as compared to the laundry list women expect of men) and when a man decides to commit to monogamy/marriage with that woman as his sole source of sex, it is a slap in the face to him when she visibly doesn't respect his one condition. Obviously people age and looks fade over time, but it's not the biology so much as the desire expressed in maintaining ones fitness. This in no way excuses men from getting porky after marriage either. Desire is going to cool somewhat as it is after commitment, when you add to this a lack of arousal on either person's part, you're only asking for trouble.

This seems so obvious to me, and I have thought this way for as long as I can remember. Good luck trying to express this point to a woman, and woe be it unto the man who tries to explain this to his wife. His wife will whole-heartedly believe that it's "post-pardom depression" or "I can't help it, my metabolism is whacked after birth." She'll jump up and down ranting and raving about how much of a jerk the guy is... hey! If you argue with her enough, you might just get her to lose some weight from the jumping up and down!

All of my aunts got fat after birth. Out of 7, only two of them were married to a "man", the other 5 are married to chumps. The one "man" waited until the kids graduated high school and left the fat b!tch to endulge in much skinnier pursuits. The other "man" divorced my aunt a year after she gave birth.

Getting fat is a deal breaker, period. I'm skinny - why are you fat? That's not fair to ME, and I'm not attracted to it. Get skinny or get out. Simple.

Let's say you went to the store and bought a television. You get it home and it breaks after two years. What would you do? Get another television. But wait...
If you did a little scrutinizing before the purchase, you would have gotten one with a warranty. The warranty in this case being "the desire to maintain one's fitness".

 

[RedPill]

Let's say you went to the store and bought a television. You get it home and it breaks after two years. What would you do? Get another television. But wait...
If you did a little scrutinizing before the purchase, you would have gotten one with a warranty. The warranty in this case being "the desire to maintain one's fitness".

warranty = pre-nuptial agreement

You may not be able to contractually keep her in shape, but you can kick her out of your house with minimal financial consequences (child support non-withstanding) if she decides to become your typical Midwestern cow. Of course, if she doesn't have self-improvement traits and respect for a man's need for her to stay hot in the first place, it was a crappy television to begin with.

 

[Vulpine]

warranty = pre-nuptial agreement

.... if she decides to become your typical Midwestern cow

:crackup: :crackup:

"Warranty: bearer of this warranty is entitled to repair or replacement should this product become defective without any further financial obligation..."

"Sign here, please."

"I now pronounce you 'husband and wife'."

 

[Bible_Belt]

My one friend with a good marriage seems to send the underlying message to his wife that he does not need her, he can always get another woman, and she is lucky to be with him. Coincidentally, she lost all of the weight after having a kid. She looks the same as she did before.

 

[MisterAl]

insane in tha membrane

My best friend very recently was married. While talking about hanging out tonight he told me that I would have to go to his house where we would stay in and watch a movie. "Why is that?" I asked. The answer was because if we went out his wife would come home to an empty house and she doesn't like that.

I said, "you do realize that I am making a decision to see you, my friend, instead of having some chick's t!ts in my face on a Friday night. Did you not spend all of Saturday miserable at her parents' house for a get together that you could not stop b!tching about on the phone with me? This is a two-way street. You're setting another evil precedent with your wife from which you cannot recover."

He manned up this time and we're not going to be in at his house. I'm worried about the boy. He made a deal with the devil last week and bragged to me about it like it was a good thing. He actually made a deal with his wife that she would give him a BJ every day as long as he did his exercises and ate right. I was furious at him when he told me this!

He has a good wife. They have loads of sex, even without making stupid deals. He was getting it 5 days a week. This deal gives him nothing and he has everything to lose. WTF is it about marriage that blinds men? How on earth can a man screw up so badly by taking sex that had been offered freely by a sexy and willing wife and tying it to rewards for chores and behaviour? It's greed.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

How on earth can a man screw up so badly by taking sex that had been offered freely by a sexy and willing wife and tying it to rewards for chores and behaviour? It's greed.

I wish I could say it was greed, that would simplify the whole thing very nicely, but I'm afraid it's more complicated than that. It's really about setting and maintaining a frame. In marriage, women use sex as their only agency for setting the frame in a marriage. She gets fat and you complain - no sex. She wants to go to some insipid family function and you complain - no sex. She wants you to be at home waiting for her and you object - no sex. It always comes back to sex. Take a way this tool and you will set the frame.

As readily as women will use their sexuality as agency, the opposite response is what they want in return for this. They want a man with whom their vagina holds no power over, because this is the guy they can respect. Wives need to be told NO, and sometimes this simply needs to be an arbitrary 'no' for no other reason than to remind her of who's frame she is living in.

For example, about 4 years ago my wife had come across a trundle bed for our daughter for about $200 in the classifieds. She called me from work to ask if it would be alright to buy this bed. After thinking about picking it up and re-building it I said no. My girl was just fine in her already nice bed and I simply didn't want to go to the trouble of disposing of her bed and setting up another one, price was no object. My wife got indignant and had that "you'd-better-agree-or-no-sex" tone in her voice, at which point I read the sh!t test coming. "Well it's a great deal and I don't see why we can't get it,.." she intoned to me. At this stage I don't explain my reasonings, I simply say "No." This is no longer about the bed, it's about setting a frame.

In the end, she became resentful and held out on me until the following week (when we hit it like crazy again). I still got laid the next week AND the frame was still my own. You see, the secret is that no amount of pvssy, no matter how great the sex is, is never worth losing the frame. Sex is short term gratification - and women know this - whereas losing the frame has long term impact on your life. I think back to when I foolishly caved in to allowing my wife to buy a car for herself after a similar exchange to the bed incident. She bought a car because it was 'cute' and I went along because she was so in love with it and I got some pretty good sex after the purchase. But into the first year of owning this car it turned out to be the worst mechanical nightmare I'd ever seen and was in the shop more than on the road. It cost thousands to fix and I ultimately used it as a trade in for a better car that I'd chosen for her and took a huge hit in it's original purchase price. So you see, it's long term investment versus short term gratification. Pvssy is never a good bet; masturbation is preferable to making bad long term decisions. Never again will my wife be allowed to
buy a car BTW.

 

[grinder]

Congratulations Rollo.

Earlier you had noted the focus of this site on getting women. What to do next is not frequently noted. I am just re-reading the section of the bible on LTR’s. Not much there either and some of it is conflicting.

Mrs. Grinder and I would have been married 22 years this year. We may make it depending on the actual divorce date. The first 15 years were “good”, hard to categorize this, as this time period was during a time of “pre-consciousness”. I do not like the term “AFC”.

Others here have noted the “unplugging from the matrix” and I do fully ascent to this conceptualization. It was 7 long years ago that I “woke up”. But I had no direction, no path. The complexities of having 4 children, careers, financial obligations, and such are immense.

You have achieved a paradox: Within the narrow confines of “accepted social norms” you have a marriage that is not defined by those same “accepted social norms”. This is good.

SoSuave is NOT unique in its viewpoint on social convention, on male-female interactions. Many social “experiments” have been tried in which (in my humble opinion) a wonderful balance had been found, only to flounder due to outside influences.

There are many ways to BE with others, with women. I live in an area where there are “communes” in which several women and several men share EVERYTHING. This is hidden as the “populace” would not tolerate it. Unfortunately, their have been many failures in these social experiments. Usually, this occurs when “accepted society” has somehow become involved. But, the lessons learned, teach us that the old ways are no longer valid. “Accepted Social Norms” are over a thousand years old and in need of revision.

We have advanced thousands of years technologically, but only days socially. Our social norms remain primitive.

Getting back to the matrix reference: What is truly difficult is that we are not fully disconnected from the matrix, we must walk and talk within it daily, we are exposed to it daily, yet we know it is wrong.

But at least we have some friends that can help us, remind us, that reality is different than “As seen on TV”. This is one of the very, very few places that can do that.

 

[Desdinova]

You see, the secret is that no amount of pvssy, no matter how great the sex is, is never worth losing the frame. Sex is short term gratification - and women know this - whereas losing the frame has long term impact on your life.

From all the years I've been here, you and Pook are the only other two who understand this. Most of the guys here don't, which is quite sad. Women use sex as the carrot; the bribe to get the man to do what they want him to. If men learned that women shouldn't use sex as a bribe, they'd be much better off. One way to teach a woman this early in the relationship is to deny her sex once in a while. Hey, why can't YOU be tired for a change?

Buying into the "great deal" of getting sex in return for performing some minor task was the dumbest thing I ever did. "If you go out and buy me some chocolate, I'll give you something in return " and I fukkin fell for it every time. Did I get laid after guying her chocolate? NO.

The promise of sex is a scam that women have been cashing in on for decades. It's time we ended it.

 

[WestCoaster]

Back to the women porking out after pregnancy ... I don't know enough about biology to make a comment. All I know is I was at a college football scrimmage on Thursday night and this amazing blonde -- best looking gal I've seen in town since moving here three years ago -- came up and sat in my row and she was an easy 9.5.

She had three freaking YOUNG kids, including one that appeared to be around 6 months. She was off the charts, and from my observations, a pretty darn good mom. She had those kids behaved without having to yell at them.

 

[wayword]

The promise of sex is a scam that women have been cashing in on for decades. It's time we ended it.

You are 100% correct, and the reason why is because the majority (70% or more) of women do not O from intercourse, while nearly 100% of men do 100% of the time. Therefore, sex is far better for men than women and they use that to their advantage.

HOWEVER, individuals can always defy the stats...

Therefore, "all" you have to do to flip this script is make sex better for HER than for YOU. In other words, if you can make her O from intercourse more than YOU do - she'll get this distraught, despondent look on her face when she realizes that SHE JUST LOST THE ONLY LEVERAGE ANY WOMAN HAS OVER A MAN! If she just came once or more and you "can't or won't"...she will demand that you do or feel like the totally worthless, helpless POS she is!

Faaarr easier said than done here...but who ever said being a powerful man was easy? And a man with power over his women is a powerful man indeed!

 

[squirrels]

Therefore, "all" you have to do to flip this script is make sex better for HER than for YOU. In other words, if you can make her O from intercourse more than YOU do - she'll get this distraught, despondent look on her face when she realizes that SHE JUST LOST THE ONLY LEVERAGE ANY WOMAN HAS OVER A MAN! If she just came once or more and you "can't or won't"...she will demand that you do or feel like the totally worthless, helpless POS she is!

Kind of reminiscent of that one bit from Eddie Murphy RAW.

 

[Vulpine]

Therefore, "all" you have to do to flip this script is make sex better for HER than for YOU. In other words, if you can make her O from intercourse more than YOU do - she'll get this distraught, despondent look on her face when she realizes that SHE JUST LOST THE ONLY LEVERAGE ANY WOMAN HAS OVER A MAN! If she just came once or more and you "can't or won't"...she will demand that you do or feel like the totally worthless, helpless POS she is!

Yep. :yes:

I have NEVER gotten a woman to use "sex as a weapon" with me. Actually, I have, but the result was twofold: 1. Me laughing in her face. 2. Me having sex with someone else.

Sex is always better for the woman than it is for me, so the "no sex" games are powerless against me. And that look on their face IS pretty classic when they realize that you aren't the typical dipsh!t man that they'll be able to puzzywhip.

 

[speed dawg]

haha, very rarely do I ever want to have sex and the gf doesn't. She usually brings it up, she's a rather horny one. I don't think I'll ever have that problem...

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Sex isn't a 'weapon' for women, but from a very early age they understand their sexuality is an 'agency' for them - a tool for leverage. When girls hit even pre-pubescence they understand this agency both indirectly (popular culture or have an example set for them from mothers or sisters) and directly (experimenting on their own to see it's affect on young boys). They understand this requires subtlety and necessitates a covertness in applying it.

Both WAYWORD and VULPINE are experiencing this from one side and SPEED is getting it from the opposite. The mistake is to assume women use "sex as a weapon." This is OVERT thinking and will evoke an OVERT response from a woman when she's accused of using "sex as a weapon." She'll fly off the handle and call you every shade of chauvinist, just as her socialization has taught her to do in exactly this situation - redirect the shame back to the accuser.

The flip side of this is what SPEED DAWG is experiencing. The COVERT use of a woman's sexuality (not directly 'sex') to effect what she wants to achieve. Only later is this agency seen for what it is by the guy.

 

[Vulpine]

Ok, so my terms aren't adequately functional. I did actually mean "sex as a tool", "sex as currency", "sex as a facilitator", or "sex as a lubricant"... but when a tool is used for a negative function, such as a penalty or reward in conjunction with manipulation, it becomes a weapon of sorts.

Let's say a woman had a hammer, and you had a smaller hammer, you would want to use her hammer. If she didn't let you use it and taunted you with it, it would become a torture device, or a "weapon". On the other hand, if you didn't need to use her hammer because yours was bigger and better, then her hammer couldn't be used for a weapon. If she tried beating you with her hammer, you would beat her back with your bigger hammer, etc.

Chicks in relationships with me are the first to ask "can we have sex?" And, I don't ever get a "no" when I ask, even if she's on the rag. I didn't share, because I take it for granted I guess. It comes with the territory. But I do understand how sexuality is used by women in other relationships.

 

[wayword]

Chicks in relationships with me are the first to ask "can we have sex?" And, I don't ever get a "no" when I ask, even if she's on the rag. I didn't share, because I take it for granted I guess. It comes with the territory. But I do understand how sexuality is used by women in other relationships.

Me too, but I think it's basically them trying to get me hooked on their pu55y and vaildate their own self-worth, and thus increase their leverage in the relationship. Their ultimate goal seems to be to get YOU off all the time, because then that gives THEM power. Cuz they still want it even if they don't get off most of the time. Any woman knows the only place where she can overpower and whip a guy - is in bed.

Heck, e-chicks I've never even met yet will "jokingly" offer me sex for resources. So, this mentality is deeply ingrained regardless of who the guy is. They are simply going to try to use it no matter what, because wtf else they got? These days, not much. That's the only tool they have in their tool belt. Ask a girl to toss your salad and swallow, and they'll jump in bed. Ask a girl to cook you a good meal, clean or buy you something and they look at you like you just asked them to kill their dog.