Dealing with a very confident girl

[Sega Genesis]

In fact he brought up couples counseling, lol, because my naturally aloof non clingy behavior was so very different than what he had seen in previous relationships. That was a WTF moment honestly

Why couples counseling Be?

Perhaps since he felt so uncertain about you, he should have sought individual counseling for himself?

I mean you were just being you, your genuine self, right? Did he want or expect you to change? To soothe his uncertainty?

A bit confused by that especially only 4 weeks in.

Anyway just thinking out loud, obviously it all worked out!!

 

[Harry Wilmington IDS]

How we met and probably how/why she was attracted:

She was in the periphery of my work social circle, and in retrospect after I didn't pay much attention to her a few times(I HATE competing for a girls attention) , at a work party I turn my head to find her literally behind me feigning clumsy ignorance in the familiar way only women can do. I chat her up, one thing led to another and we ended up heavily making out. We exchanged numbers and had a couple of texts that didn't lead much, because I was busy at the time and I didn't feel much receptiveness from her side (took like 2 days to text me back). She did walk up to me and say hi one time and I somewhat blew her off (i wasn't engaging) - that was probably not cool in hindsight. So that was the end of it back then. I may have misread her apparent lack of interest at the time but I had other options and I’m used to girls showing way more interest.

Since we met a few times at work functions, and on most recent occasions she complimented my appearance. The manner of the compliments was what can I say, a little too familiar to me (I get a lot of that and I learnt to just screen it out). She did it twice in the last event so grabbed her and I told her I'm going to take you out properly and here we go.

Sooooo what you're saying here is: you didn't pay her much attention, you didn't try to force yourself into meeting her, and the result was that SHE let you know she wanted you to talk to her by making herself blatantly available?

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW IT GOES WITH GETTING THEM INTO A RELATIONSHIP.

Look, I'm not saying the other posters here who said "I'm the guy and I asked first" or "I was the woman and he asked first" indicates that it can't work. I'm just saying, in the grand scheme of things (a) the probability is lower than if you let them come to you, and (b) you don't lose points waiting for women to come to you to hint they're ready. In the case of the previous posters, the men got lucky that the women they asked happen to feel ready for a relationship at the same time, but it's still far less reliable than being a bit patient. In fact, the one woman said:

I concur. My husband brought up exclusivity with me.

In fact he brought up couples counseling, lol, because my naturally aloof non clingy behavior was so very different than what he had seen in previous relationships. That was a WTF moment honestly. I knew he cared much more than he was letting on and I also was like "I've known you 4 weeks. We aren't even a couple....why are you suggesting counseling? I'm still getting to know you....."

I also told him to go ask his ex gf the psych PhD if that was normal or unusual behavior. They had dated off & on about 18 months and stayed close friends. She and I are really good friends now (she was in our wedding) and she & I laugh about that whole suggestion every now and then. Obviously she told him "OMG. Not normal behavior."

See? Even in that situation where it worked out, she herself said it was NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOR (in her eyes) for him to already be ready for a relationship with her because of (what she conceived to be) his bad timing. And that's the key - your timing of when it "feels right" is going to typically be much sooner than a woman's, which is why it's better to wait.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Sooooo what you're saying here is: you didn't pay her much attention, you didn't try to force yourself into meeting her, and the result was that SHE let you know she wanted you to talk to her by making herself blatantly available?

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW IT GOES WITH GETTING THEM INTO A RELATIONSHIP.

Look, I'm not saying the other posters here who said "I'm the guy and I asked first" or "I was the woman and he asked first" indicates that it can't work. I'm just saying, in the grand scheme of things (a) the probability is lower than if you let them come to you, and (b) you don't lose points waiting for women to come to you to hint they're ready. In the case of the previous posters, the men got lucky that the women they asked happen to feel ready for a relationship at the same time, but it's still far less reliable than being a bit patient. In fact, the one woman said:



See? Even in that situation where it worked out, she herself said it was NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOR (in her eyes) for him to already be ready for a relationship with her because of (what she conceived to be) his bad timing. And that's the key - your timing of when it "feels right" is going to typically be much sooner than a woman's, which is why it's better to wait.

^^Fair points....

 

[Divorced w 3]

Sooooo what you're saying here is: you didn't pay her much attention, you didn't try to force yourself into meeting her, and the result was that SHE let you know she wanted you to talk to her by making herself blatantly available?

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW IT GOES WITH GETTING THEM INTO A RELATIONSHIP.

Look, I'm not saying the other posters here who said "I'm the guy and I asked first" or "I was the woman and he asked first" indicates that it can't work. I'm just saying, in the grand scheme of things (a) the probability is lower than if you let them come to you, and (b) you don't lose points waiting for women to come to you to hint they're ready. In the case of the previous posters, the men got lucky that the women they asked happen to feel ready for a relationship at the same time, but it's still far less reliable than being a bit patient. In fact, the one woman said:



See? Even in that situation where it worked out, she herself said it was NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOR (in her eyes) for him to already be ready for a relationship with her because of (what she conceived to be) his bad timing. And that's the key - your timing of when it "feels right" is going to typically be much sooner than a woman's, which is why it's better to wait.

Had some thought about this - for the moment I'm enjoying the ride, and I'm taking a step back here and allowing her to show some more skin in.

So some more background and input into the various questions:

"How have you "hinted" and how exactly was/is she resisting?"

1) I said I wanted to see her 4 days after a meet. She said 'perhaps', then when were parting she said she was doing whatever the heck she was on that day and it's fine to meet after and she suggested day 6 and 7. I picked 7 because 6 wasn't available.

2) On date 2 (when we were vibing really well, she wanted to come home with me but I said I couldn't) i said we could meet 4 days after or sooner if she can host. She said day 6 or 7 once again. we ended up with 6.


"Does she know you're spinning another plate? The clingy insecure girl? Women have a sixth sense about stuff like that."

No, she doesn't. Also I'm spinning a third one regularly (a 35 year old).

On date 1 she asked how is my dating and I said something like "I'm enjoying it, and I'm open to finding the right person".

At one of the dates (3 i think?) She did ask point blank whether I was on dating apps and I said no (I said i hate those I like knowing people in person, and that's the truth). I think the lack of any inquisitiveness on my side also took her back - I didn't ask her back whether she was on dating apps. I didn't ask her whether she was seeing others, and there is no way I'm ever gonna do that.

She was also quite inquisitive about how I spent the last 2 night on our last meet in a way that I sensed had ulterior motives (but could also be passed as chattiness).

she is also super careful not to hint at anything like seeing other dudes on her side. I have no idea whether she does. Whenever she mentions being busy on a night she makes a point of talking of a "girlfriend".

The reality is that this girl has tight game and she knows it.

And the reality is that she could get a lot of people if she wanted. There wasn't a single social function where I saw her and she hasn't had the attention of a LOT of dudes, however evasive she is.

Per my and @BeExcellent posts she may be expecting you to Lead at least until exclusivity. Which means she's not gonna initiate, she waits for you to initiate, and she responds by accepting and being fun, sexy, engaging, warm and giving on your dates.

that's the current dynamic and I like it. I must stress in person she is super warm, receptive, engaging, conversational, breaks silences, inquisitive, has a flirtatious teasy vibe that we exchange and i like, and is fun as you say. We always have a blast in person. In text - dry as hell.

But we're nowhere near where I can initiate an exclusivity talk - it's been 5-6 weeks, she hasn't hinted at it, I have no idea what she is doing in the week stretches that we are not seeing each other, I don't know for a fact she isn't seeing other dudes, and I'm not going to be exclusive with a girl who can't see me more than once a week.

How we met and probably how/why she was attracted:

She was in the periphery of my work social circle, and in retrospect after I didn't pay much attention to her a few times(I HATE competing for a girls attention) , at a work party I turn my head to find her literally behind me feigning clumsy ignorance in the familiar way only women can do. I chat her up, one thing led to another and we ended up heavily making out. We exchanged numbers and had a couple of texts that didn't lead much, because I was busy at the time and I didn't feel much receptiveness from her side (took like 2 days to text me back). She did walk up to me and say hi one time and I somewhat blew her off (i wasn't engaging) - that was probably not cool in hindsight. So that was the end of it back then. I may have misread her apparent lack of interest at the time but I had other options and I’m used to girls showing way more interest.

Since we met a few times at work functions, and on most recent occasions she complimented my appearance. The manner of the compliments was what can I say, a little too familiar to me (I get a lot of that and I learnt to just screen it out). She did it twice in the last event so grabbed her and I told her I'm going to take you out properly and here we go.

She hasn't ever had a long term relationship, and she is into her career. She doesn't want to see you that often. Those don't make for the best women in committed relationships. Overtime you will see she lacks feminine traits.

There is truth here - she is certainly career driven, has somewhat of a busy social life, and the reality is that she has an abundance of supply. However, I outrank her quite a bit in her career path, have an awesome life around me, and I have a lot more to give her than her give me, and that's ok - I'm happy for her to be the pretty gracious feminine girl in my life if she can fulfill that role.

'She runs tight game' - true statement - she's used to being heavily pursued, and my friend it's only about to get heavier.

'I outrank her in career and have more to give than she can give' - false statement - 1: there's always someone out there with more money, status and looks than you, get this idea out of your head - even intimating it makes you look weak

 

[Chow Mein]

Love. Bomb.

 

[BeExcellent]

Why couples counseling Be?

Perhaps since he felt so uncertain about you, he should have sought individual counseling for himself?

I mean you were just being you, your genuine self, right? Did he want or expect you to change? To soothe his uncertainty?

A bit confused by that especially only 4 weeks in.

Anyway just thinking out loud, obviously it all worked out!!

Listen. You have to remember that my husband is on the spectrum. MUCH of his behavior is quirky. He is extremely handsome. Women literally throw themselves at him "Are you a simger?" "You're sexy", "What band are you in" etc. So he's been a opportunist playboy snce his teens and does understand how most women behave. He's had beautiful women at nightclubs walk right up to him and proposition him sexally, and he's gotten laid from that sort of thing many times. He IS sexy, what can I say? But he's also ridiculously smart, nerdy, stand offish and stylish. I knew he was more awkward than arrogant from the jump the night I met him. So some odd behavior comes with the territory.

He was used to women throwng themselves at him and chasing him hard until he tossed them or moved on. He had never dealt with a woman where he was having to wonder if she liked him or if she was busy on nights we weren't together. So used to women trying to claim him as insta girlfriends through sex and so forth that he honestly hadn't experienced a woman who was taking her time to let things develop more slowly.

So don't read too much into the counseling thing @Sega Genesis because it seemed logical in his mind precisely because I did not behave like other women. Since I didn't follow the typical pattern he didn't know how to handle me early on. Like our OP but a bit more pronounced.

Thank God for his ex gf the psych PhD. Just sayin.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Listen. You have to remember that my husband is on the spectrum. MUCH of his behavior is quirky. He is extremely handsome. Women literally throw themselves at him "Are you a simger?" "You're sexy", "What band are you in" etc. So he's been a opportunist playboy snce his teens and does understand how most women behave. He's had beautiful women at nightclubs walk right up to him and proposition him sexally, and he's gotten laid from that sort of thing many times. He IS sexy, what can I say? But he's also ridiculously smart, nerdy, stand offish and stylish. I knew he was more awkward than arrogant from the jump the night I met him. So some odd behavior comes with the territory.

He was used to women throwng themselves at him and chasing him hard until he tossed them or moved on. He had never dealt with a woman where he was having to wonder if she liked him or if she was busy on nights we weren't together. So used to women trying to claim him as insta girlfriends through sex and so forth that he honestly hadn't experienced a woman who was taking her time to let things develop more slowly.

So don't read too much into the counseling thing @Sega Genesis because it seemed logical in his mind precisely because I did not behave like other women. Since I didn't follow the typical pattern he didn't know how to handle me early on. Like our OP but a bit more pronounced.

Thank God for his ex gf the psych PhD. Just sayin.

Yes I get (got) all that @Be, him being on the spectrum and due to his past experiences with women, why he felt uncertain about you.

My question was:

Perhaps since he felt so uncertain about you, he should have sought individual counseling for himself?

To help him deal. Versus "couples" counseling. Especially at only 4 weeks in. As you said, you were just being YOU.

That's what I was questioning. Which I would not have had you not mentioned it.

Anyway no need to further respond, it doesn't matter at this point; obviously it all worked out which is all that matters.

 

[BeExcellent]

Yes I get (got) all that @Be, him being on the spectrum and due to his past experiences with women, why he felt uncertain about you.

My question was:



To help him deal. Versus "couples" counseling. Especially at only 4 weeks in. As you said, you were just being YOU.

That's what I was questioning. Which I would not have had you not mentioned it.

Anyway no need to further respond, it doesn't matter at this point; obviously it all worked out which is all that matters.

Sega you are being obtuse. Why would I care at 4 weeks in about any of that? Its WAY too heavy. I didn't care & would never suggest something so personal to someone I barely know. Seriously.

Heavy conversations early on kill attraction.

He made the couples counseling comment over text. I responded over text saying Gee. That's weird. We are not a couple. I don't even know you since I just met you 4 weeks ago. Check with your PhD friend.

That's IT. (He did check with his friend, she said that's weird, knock it off), which she told me later.

You have to keep the interaction light and fun. Be engaging, positive, warm & so forth. Heavy topics will turn off a man or a woman and should be avoided until much later.

 

[filerfiler]

Woud you guys mind taking this to pm. Thank you.

 

[Sophisticator]

I guess that 'Don't derail threads' rule isn't heavily moderated.

 

[BeExcellent]

Agreed. I will say nothing further here. Apologies.

 

[Sega Genesis]

@BeExcellent I did not want this to become a back and forth but to clarify.

YOU made a comment that your husband suggested couples counseling; I thought his suggestion was over the top and too heavy (as you agreed) and thought since this was HIS uncertainty/insecurity about you, HIS issue, individual counseling to help him deal with HIS issue would be the better route.

I did not say that you should be the one to suggest it. I agree it's NOT your place.

It was too soon for him to even burden you with all that shyt imo.. It was HIS uncertainty about you, as a grown man HE deals with it. By himself. Or with the help of a qualified therapist, individually.

Spectrum or no Spectrum.

You have to keep the interaction light and fun. Be engaging, positive, warm & so forth. Heavy topics will turn off a man or a woman and should be avoided until much later.

Completely agree.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Woud you guys mind taking this to pm. Thank you.

I'm done.

 

[Dr.Suave]

I guess that 'Don't derail threads' rule isn't heavily moderated.

There are different types of derailment.

" Often the discussion within a thread organically deviates towards a tangential topic, and that is fine in most cases because conversations in general naturally evolve and develop over the course of the discussion, and an occasional sidebar can be useful to add context or to colour the conversation... "

 

[Sega Genesis]

@filerfiler was it really that off topic? Seems to me it's on par with what @Harry Wilmington IDS
posted (as well as some others) to wait for the woman to initiate any type of relationship talk.

As evidenced by @BeExcellent reaction to her husband suggesting couples counseling at only 4 weeks in.

Even in that situation where it worked out, she herself said it was NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOR (in her eyes) for him to already be ready for a relationship with her because of (what she conceived to be) his bad timing. And that's the key - your timing of when it "feels right" is going to typically be much sooner than a woman's, which is why it's better to wait.

 

[BeExcellent]

My point relative to the thread is this:

1. Man initiates & asks out. Woman is receptive & responds. Simple. And healthy male/female natural dynamic develops. Repeat and enjoy one another.

Do not get all weird & in your head OP about your insecurities, her motivations etc. Simply continue.

2. Do not worry about hard rules in bringing up exclusivity talk. Let things evolve naturally. However if you want to lock the girl down (to monopolize her from entertaining other men) then you are fine having a light & fun convo about that. If it goes well you need to be willing to drop your other plates too, so that is a consideration for you.

Men are the gatekeepers to relationship. Nothing wrong with opening that gate without her dropping hints or pressuring you. Just as women will make sex available if they really like a man even though women are the gatekeepers of sex.

Be cool & let it flow. Be happy you've got a girl who doesn't blow you up & create drama. See what happens organically.

 

[itouchyou]

Confidence doesn't come from inexperience..

The girl to me reads like a guy who's a player, regardless of whether that means she's had relationships or flings.

She is unwilling to make herself vulnerable by telegraphing interest first, which ultimately means she is trying to maintain the upper hand in order to avoid being hurt/rejected. This is modern feminist behavior.

To me, this is not a feminine woman.

 

[BeExcellent]

Sigh. Incorrect. Confidence comes from knowing ones value and from having internal self esteem. If a girl values her virginity (for example) and is saving herself for her husband can be one example. Another example is a beautiful, chill self assured sought after girl who knows most women are insecure & will blow themselves out with insecure clingy behavior.

Look. The 26 year old has seen a mirror. She knows she is pretty; she knows men want her for her looks. She also knows that as men get to know her they will become more attracted because of her non looks based attributes. That's a winning combo folks. It has nothing to do with sex per se. She knows she is a total package girl and that she is relatively rare.

I knew that about myself too. It makes you more confident in your attractiveness, not less. And it lets her patiently determine whether or not a man is up to her standards....or is he going to blow himself out acting insecure & like she's out of his league?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Had some thought about this - for the moment I'm enjoying the ride, and I'm taking a step back here and allowing her to show some more skin in.

So some more background and input into the various questions:

"How have you "hinted" and how exactly was/is she resisting?"

1) I said I wanted to see her 4 days after a meet. She said 'perhaps', then when were parting she said she was doing whatever the heck she was on that day and it's fine to meet after and she suggested day 6 and 7. I picked 7 because 6 wasn't available.

2) On date 2 (when we were vibing really well, she wanted to come home with me but I said I couldn't) i said we could meet 4 days after or sooner if she can host. She said day 6 or 7 once again. we ended up with 6.


"Does she know you're spinning another plate? The clingy insecure girl? Women have a sixth sense about stuff like that."

No, she doesn't. Also I'm spinning a third one regularly (a 35 year old).

On date 1 she asked how is my dating and I said something like "I'm enjoying it, and I'm open to finding the right person".

At one of the dates (3 i think?) She did ask point blank whether I was on dating apps and I said no (I said i hate those I like knowing people in person, and that's the truth). I think the lack of any inquisitiveness on my side also took her back - I didn't ask her back whether she was on dating apps. I didn't ask her whether she was seeing others, and there is no way I'm ever gonna do that.

She was also quite inquisitive about how I spent the last 2 night on our last meet in a way that I sensed had ulterior motives (but could also be passed as chattiness).

she is also super careful not to hint at anything like seeing other dudes on her side. I have no idea whether she does. Whenever she mentions being busy on a night she makes a point of talking of a "girlfriend".

The reality is that this girl has tight game and she knows it.

And the reality is that she could get a lot of people if she wanted. There wasn't a single social function where I saw her and she hasn't had the attention of a LOT of dudes, however evasive she is.

Per my and @BeExcellent posts she may be expecting you to Lead at least until exclusivity. Which means she's not gonna initiate, she waits for you to initiate, and she responds by accepting and being fun, sexy, engaging, warm and giving on your dates.

that's the current dynamic and I like it. I must stress in person she is super warm, receptive, engaging, conversational, breaks silences, inquisitive, has a flirtatious teasy vibe that we exchange and i like, and is fun as you say. We always have a blast in person. In text - dry as hell.

But we're nowhere near where I can initiate an exclusivity talk - it's been 5-6 weeks, she hasn't hinted at it, I have no idea what she is doing in the week stretches that we are not seeing each other, I don't know for a fact she isn't seeing other dudes, and I'm not going to be exclusive with a girl who can't see me more than once a week.

How we met and probably how/why she was attracted:

She was in the periphery of my work social circle, and in retrospect after I didn't pay much attention to her a few times(I HATE competing for a girls attention) , at a work party I turn my head to find her literally behind me feigning clumsy ignorance in the familiar way only women can do. I chat her up, one thing led to another and we ended up heavily making out. We exchanged numbers and had a couple of texts that didn't lead much, because I was busy at the time and I didn't feel much receptiveness from her side (took like 2 days to text me back). She did walk up to me and say hi one time and I somewhat blew her off (i wasn't engaging) - that was probably not cool in hindsight. So that was the end of it back then. I may have misread her apparent lack of interest at the time but I had other options and I’m used to girls showing way more interest.

Since we met a few times at work functions, and on most recent occasions she complimented my appearance. The manner of the compliments was what can I say, a little too familiar to me (I get a lot of that and I learnt to just screen it out). She did it twice in the last event so grabbed her and I told her I'm going to take you out properly and here we go.

She hasn't ever had a long term relationship, and she is into her career. She doesn't want to see you that often. Those don't make for the best women in committed relationships. Overtime you will see she lacks feminine traits.

There is truth here - she is certainly career driven, has somewhat of a busy social life, and the reality is that she has an abundance of supply. However, I outrank her quite a bit in her career path, have an awesome life around me, and I have a lot more to give her than her give me, and that's ok - I'm happy for her to be the pretty gracious feminine girl in my life if she can fulfill that role.

Why would you ever initiate an exclusivity talk to begin with??

That's their job, not yours.

 

[The Duke]

Sigh. Incorrect. Confidence comes from knowing ones value and from having internal self esteem. If a girl values her virginity (for example) and is saving herself for her husband can be one example. Another example is a beautiful, chill self assured sought after girl who knows most women are insecure & will blow themselves out with insecure clingy behavior.

Look. The 26 year old has seen a mirror. She knows she is pretty; she knows men want her for her looks. She also knows that as men get to know her they will become more attracted because of her non looks based attributes. That's a winning combo folks. It has nothing to do with sex per se. She knows she is a total package girl and that she is relatively rare.

I knew that about myself too. It makes you more confident in your attractiveness, not less. And it lets her patiently determine whether or not a man is up to her standards....or is he going to blow himself out acting insecure & like she's out of his league?

Your point is valid and accurate for the most part, however there are situations that it's not the case. Only an experienced man would understand. Your opinion is based on how you think and feel, not actual real world experience dating women.