Strategies dealing with a girl who fights for the frame.

[filerfiler]

Been seeing this girl lately. Some facts:

1. We have an age gap (41-28).
2. She is undeniably hot , 9/10 (a model), and it's quite clear she hasn't had a relationship where she didn't firmly hold the reins and had "yes men" all her life. I don't think she's used to "No" and it clearly both freaks her out and attracts her.
3. She, by her practices, is looking for something long term - I've slept with over 10 girls last year, and she is standing out as the one who genuinely asks questions about me and my two children in a way that says she's interested in more than just my ****, which is the impression i get from other girls. She has also been cooking for me, and all in all I get the impression she's a family girl
4. I don't mind something long term, but in the right frame. And in my view it's way too early to contemplate anything like that just yet.
5. Why does she like me? she was the one to hover around me because of my social status being a trainer in a local event. Plus I fit her "hot" archetype i guess.
6. We have met 6 times. k-close 1st time, heavy LMR snd time, f-close 3rd time + . All of this in the last 3 weeks.

Face to face and when we're meeting she's happy as a clam. The pattern when we meet is she is super feminine, we have some fun activity together, we cook some kind of meal, and have some mind blowing sex, the next morning she sends me a bunch of messages about how she's happy and about her day etc...

Then over the next 2 days until we meet again I sense that she freaks out that she's not in control of the relationship, and starts attempting to bargain. She explicitly asks whether I'm seeing other people and clearly wants exclusivity. Then she says she wants me to be more responsive over text, and to call her over the phone, etc...

This happened twice, when she asked for exclusivity I insisted this was something we talk about f2f. When we met I told her I'd like things to progress naturally, I told her I'm not here to screw her or anything like that. I also strongly hinted to her that I find being demanding extremely unattractive and to knock it off. I also told her any discussion like this will never happen over text and to be f2f.

After this we met and again the sense of attraction was off the charts, even more submissive and happy in bed.

We were meant to meet tomorrow, and she's been sending me pictures of herself etc (classy stuff).. and i told her to cook again when we meet tomorrow.

Today though she completely freaks out again, I wake up to a bunch of messages about how I'm confusing her with my signals, because I'm not that responsive to her over text, and I don't call her, and I don't take her out, she says "honestly I do not know what you want you're confusing me".

She then throws the ultimatum that we can't meet tomorrow. Then she says may may be if I'm better with her on text. I don't have the time for that.

I recognize all of these ultimatums and tantrums for what they are, declarations of loss of control. So I shut her out because I've had enough, i told her:

* it seems that we're getting too attached here, let's stop meeting until we have some control over our emotions".

She replies back ... no worries, I did not realise you feel this way, followed by a sad emoji.

So at this point I'm thinking I'm not going to reach out again, but I'm curious in your thoughts about how I handled this and how it should be handled going forward.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

The higher you go up in terms of levels the more bullsh!t you have to put up with since these women are used to being able to get most guys to do anything for them just to be with them.

Just be aloof and don't put her on a pedestal. It will drive her crazy that she can't control you like she does every other guy.

Until you "break her" so to speak of that, you will be facing a ton of sh!t tests until she gives up after realizing none of it is going to work.

Also, let's be honest. The main reason you are considering her for an LTR is because she is smoking hot. Most guys screen with their d!ck and eyes only and that's why so many get into trouble.

 

[jhonny9546]

Women have emotional responses to everything.. It's normal.

The second day is her emotional response to what happened before..

Most of them will do and tell you these things..

But if they persist, they are playing or they're damaged.

 

[Gamisch]

BITG is right.

If she wasn't a "9/10" but a 6 you wouldn't be dealing with this bs. She is batshyte crazy and that will haunt you.

Recreational use only. Be mentally prepared to Parr ways with her at ANY given moment. Meanwhile ,ofcourse you treat her like a lady and be the best you can be but as you're witnessing that might have zero do with how she responds.

If she does cave in however, that's great. But tbh I wouldn't count on such a PERSON to suddenly become sane .

Recreational use only

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

The best way to handle her at the moment is to back off and observe what she does next. Silence & Distance. If you search there are some good threads here about this topic.

She as others have stated is accustomed to men bending over backwards because she is hot. You don't, which is good. So how to manage the tantrums.....

When she reaches out saying manipulative things to try to get you to comply, call her out on it. Tell her you are a man, unlike the boys she's had before, you already have children and that you are not going to tolerate manipulative, childish behavior from her. Something in your own voice/way that deals head on with her BS and lets her know to knock it off.

Tell her she's got to bring more to the table than looks and sex because that is easy for you to find and you expect (whatever traits you value) as examples.

This is a girl you are going to have to check hard or let go.

Often times women who are hot are also insecure to the point of neurotic. So when you are not blowing up her phone like every other guy she tries to check you, when that does not get the desired reaction she doubles down. You literally must break her of this behavior but you cannot chase after her to take her to task.

Women like her are exactly what women like me (hot but chill) love to compete against. Girls like her blow themselves out of consideration with desirable men because in time men will calibrate to her beauty, and sex, but once a man becomes accustomed to hot women then personality and behavior makes ALL the difference.

Some women never learn this lesson. They become unbearable to deal with, super hot or not.

Not saying she isn't salvageable, but you are going to have to enforce your behavioral boundaries in a matter of fact way and be willing to walk (sounds like you are) if she cannot or will not comply.

You attracted her, you can attract others. I dated a male fashion model in my 20s. Stunningly handsome man; terribly insecure & neurotic. I dropped him although I really liked him as a person. Models are judged constantly on looks and often are rejected. That is hard on their psyches.

 

[SW15]

She explicitly asks whether I'm seeing other people and clearly wants exclusivity.

That's a good sign, especially from a very attractive woman.

This happened twice, when she asked for exclusivity I insisted this was something we talk about f2f. I also told her any discussion like this will never happen over text and to be f2f.

This is a good boundary to have.

I think too many people try to do too much over text message in relationships rather than in-person or phone calls. The de-emphasization of the phone call in interactions has been a problem in the last 15-20 years.

I recognize all of these ultimatums and tantrums for what they are, declarations of loss of control. So I shut her out because I've had enough, i told her:

* it seems that we're getting too attached here, let's stop meeting until we have some control over our emotions".

She replies back ... no worries, I did not realise you feel this way, followed by a sad emoji.

So at this point I'm thinking I'm not going to reach out again, but I'm curious in your thoughts about how I handled this and how it should be handled going forward.

Hold frame and don't give into ultimatums. However, these ultimatums and tantrums suggest that she is not likely to be a good longer term fit for you. @BeExcellent identified this as well in her quote below.

Not saying she isn't salvageable, but you are going to have to enforce your behavioral boundaries in a matter of fact way and be willing to walk (sounds like you are) if she cannot or will not comply.

You attracted her, you can attract others.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Women like her are exactly what women like me (hot but chill) love to compete against. Girls like her blow themselves out of consideration with desirable men because in time men will calibrate to her beauty, and sex, but once a man becomes accustomed to hot women then personality and behavior makes ALL the difference.

Some women never learn this lesson. They become unbearable to deal with, super hot or not.

It's difficult to find women who have top tier looks and don't cause drama with their personalities. Those very attractive women who have more pleasant personalities (defined as rarely causing drama) are always going to be in demand.

 

[The Duke]

This girl is insecure and has anxiety issues. That's driving a lot of her behavior.

I'd never take her serious. This one is acting too poorly, too early in the game. That never ends well.

 

[New_Journey]

Been seeing this girl lately. Some facts:

1. We have an age gap (41-28).
2. She is undeniably hot , 9/10 (a model), and it's quite clear she hasn't had a relationship where she didn't firmly hold the reins and had "yes men" all her life. I don't think she's used to "No" and it clearly both freaks her out and attracts her.
3. She, by her practices, is looking for something long term - I've slept with over 10 girls last year, and she is standing out as the one who genuinely asks questions about me and my two children in a way that says she's interested in more than just my ****, which is the impression i get from other girls. She has also been cooking for me, and all in all I get the impression she's a family girl
4. I don't mind something long term, but in the right frame. And in my view it's way too early to contemplate anything like that just yet.
5. Why does she like me? she was the one to hover around me because of my social status being a trainer in a local event. Plus I fit her "hot" archetype i guess.
6. We have met 6 times. k-close 1st time, heavy LMR snd time, f-close 3rd time + . All of this in the last 3 weeks.

Face to face and when we're meeting she's happy as a clam. The pattern when we meet is she is super feminine, we have some fun activity together, we cook some kind of meal, and have some mind blowing sex, the next morning she sends me a bunch of messages about how she's happy and about her day etc...

Then over the next 2 days until we meet again I sense that she freaks out that she's not in control of the relationship, and starts attempting to bargain. She explicitly asks whether I'm seeing other people and clearly wants exclusivity. Then she says she wants me to be more responsive over text, and to call her over the phone, etc...

This happened twice, when she asked for exclusivity I insisted this was something we talk about f2f. When we met I told her I'd like things to progress naturally, I told her I'm not here to screw her or anything like that. I also strongly hinted to her that I find being demanding extremely unattractive and to knock it off. I also told her any discussion like this will never happen over text and to be f2f.

After this we met and again the sense of attraction was off the charts, even more submissive and happy in bed.

We were meant to meet tomorrow, and she's been sending me pictures of herself etc (classy stuff).. and i told her to cook again when we meet tomorrow.

Today though she completely freaks out again, I wake up to a bunch of messages about how I'm confusing her with my signals, because I'm not that responsive to her over text, and I don't call her, and I don't take her out, she says "honestly I do not know what you want you're confusing me".

She then throws the ultimatum that we can't meet tomorrow. Then she says may may be if I'm better with her on text. I don't have the time for that.

I recognize all of these ultimatums and tantrums for what they are, declarations of loss of control. So I shut her out because I've had enough, i told her:

* it seems that we're getting too attached here, let's stop meeting until we have some control over our emotions".

She replies back ... no worries, I did not realise you feel this way, followed by a sad emoji.

So at this point I'm thinking I'm not going to reach out again, but I'm curious in your thoughts about how I handled this and how it should be handled going forward.

What a fvcking misery to deal with that $hit.

- You guys are recently dating and you're seeing her how many times per week? 3-4?
- She's asking you for relationship this early?
- She throws those fits that early in the dating?
- She blowing up your phone cause you wanna take it slow?

This woman is so insecure that she can think there is aguy out there who doesn't bend to her every desire.

I can tell you from experience, it will never get better, there is no way around it. Women never work on their issues, for that you need to remove all external validation, reflect on yourself and do the work that will take years, but women don't have that patience.

One day when you guys are out, if you look at another woman, she will make a temper tantrum, you'll see.

Don't get oneitis, cause once she has you under her spell, good company, good sex and under her control, its nearly fvcking impossible to leave.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

What a fvcking misery to deal with that $hit.

- You guys are recently dating and you're seeing her how many times per week? 3-4?
- She's asking you for relationship this early?
- She throws those fits that early in the dating?
- She blowing up your phone cause you wanna take it slow?

This woman is so insecure that she can think there is aguy out there who doesn't bend to her every desire.

I can tell you from experience, it will never get better, there is no way around it. Women never work on their issues, for that you need to remove all external validation, reflect on yourself and do the work that will take years, but women don't have that patience.

One day when you guys are out, if you look at another woman, she will make a temper tantrum, you'll see.

Don't get oneitis, cause once she has you under her spell, good company, good sex and under her control, its nearly fvcking impossible to leave.

It appears twice a week...6 times in 3 weeks. That's too much, too fast, IMO. Once a week at that stage is better.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Have an exit strategy by a certain date in mind OP. You prob have a month, tops before it gets too toxic to deal with.

Obviously she feels undervalued with the "classy" pics she sent you and the gripes you don't take her anywhere. Still, the insecurity she has is disqualifying. If you want, take her someplace decent/nice and enjoy the sex for a little while longer, if you so choose.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Hi @BeExcellent I hope you don't mind my asking you this l, but having read your posts, you really do have great insight and appear to have made all the right life and relationship choices; even with your ex-husband and how you dealt with that - your marriage and divorce into present with such grace and dignity!!

My question is at 56 years of age, have you ever experienced heartbreak like real genuine devastating (at the time) heartbreak?

Not necessarily from a bad choice but rather from a valued relationship with a man you had deep feelings for and loved not working out?

I believe I have good insight, and I am quite perceptive (above average), but heartbreak, pain and hurt is a part of life you know?

Beautiful people, average people, below-average people. No one is immune to it! Not in my experience anyway.

The key is how you deal with it, resilience and learning from it. I certainly have anyway!

I always wanted to ask you this as I haven't read any posts from you discussing it and jmo but I think it might be helpful to some of the guys experiencing it?

If you haven't, how have you been able to avoid it?

JMO as always but when one has experienced pain and heartbreak, specifically a man since this is a mostly male forum, I don't think "redpill" is the answer. Sounds bit like running away from it. Or burying it by employing different strategies to protect yourself which in some cases may end up hurting themselves and others more!

What are your thoughts?

I have found often times and this is true for both men and women as attested to by many men here, falling in love is a very emotional experience, and no matter what the cause, whether you left or he left, it can be quite devastating and cause some gut-wrenching pain for many of us.

I just uploaded this song by Amy Whitehouse on another forum and thought it was appropriate for what I'm asking.

She describes that pain well...

Thanks Be.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

My GF is very pretty & has been treated like a princess her whole life. Needless to say. She can be…difficult. My only recourse is to get up and leave. Or rather, attempt to. As she has has blocked me. But. It gets her back in line. And she knows I have options.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Hi @BeExcellent I hope you don't mind my asking you this l, but having read your posts, you really do have great insight and appear to have made all the right life and relationship choices; even with your ex-husband and how you dealt with that - your marriage and divorce into present with such grace and dignity!!

My question is at 56 years of age, have you ever experienced heartbreak like real genuine devastating (at the time) heartbreak?

Not necessarily from a bad choice but rather from a valued relationship with a man you had deep feelings for and loved not working out?

I believe I have good insight, and I am quite perceptive (above average), but heartbreak, pain and hurt is a part of life you know?

The key is how you deal with it, resilience and learning from it. I certainly have anyway!

I always wanted to ask you this as I haven't read any posts from you discussing it and jmo but I think it might be helpful to some of the guys experiencing it..

If you haven't, how have you been able to avoid it?

I have found often times and this is true for both men and women as attested to by many men here, falling in love is a very emotional experience, and no matter what the cause, whether you left or he left, it can be quite devastating and cause some gut-wrenching pain for many of us.

I just uploaded this song by Amy Whitehouse on another forum and thought it was appropriate for what I'm asking.

She describes that pain well...

Horn-tooting incoming, plug yer ears fellas

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

My only recourse is to get up and leave. Or rather, attempt to. As she has has blocked me. But. It gets her back in line. And she knows I have options.

That's the ONLY way to maintainthe frame.

Many dudes misunderstand the meaning of "control the frame" to be "control the behavior of the girl."

 

[Bingo-Player]

Most men want these types of girls until they actually have them and then realise their just a pain in the fvcking a$$ with a raft of mental and insecurity issues which is what is going on here

Their also usually highly promiscuous simply because of the volume of men they are used to interacting with and having attention from

Think kid in candy store

These chicks are good for fvcking if you can get them into bed its a big win

Anything longer term I would be very cautious

You're far better off with a 6.5 - 7.5 a woman thats more down to earth will make your life far easier in the long run

 

[BeExcellent]

Thank you for the question @Sega Genesis but I think its off topic here. I had a man I loved deeply shatter my heart when I discovered he cheated. First boyfriend, lost virginity to him at 20, thought we would marry, two year LTR. So yes I've been through deep hurt and betrayal.

My father did not allow me to wallow. He said "Its over; get over it." That felt very harsh at the time but it was solid advice.

It was also tough to leave my first marriage but was the correct decision.

I think the most important thing when a relationship ends is to pause, reflect, heal and take inventory of one's self as part of growing through pain. Allow the pain to sit with you as you process things. Don't run & don't wallow. I think the oft heard advice that 'The best way to get over someone is to get under someone else...." is horrible advice. Perhaps it may work short term, but it doesn't require the reflection & healing that growing through the pain does.

Interestingly the man who broke my heart at 22 never crosses my mind now.

I'm like "Oh yeah - that guy......"

Further discussion would be better over DM or a new thread. Now returning thread to OP.

 

[DJ Novice]

From my experience relationship issues with women either stay the same or get worse over time.

Unfortunately a combination of great sex and attractive physical appearance can blind you to or make you otherwise accept major personality flaws in women.

Cut back seeing her to once or twice a week maximum. Spend time with her that does not involve sex. If you only miss the bedroom activity and find spending non-sexual time with her is like being in the ninth level of Dante’s inferno then relegate her to plate status/recreational use only.

 

[plumber]

Usually if we/I think a gal is a 9 or a 10, they have high female hormones, acting very feminine. Same hormones drives her crazy some times. Its part of the package. A famous actress in the past was quoted as telling how if a man can not handle her at her worst, he does not deserve her best. The rub is that if she looses the hormones, she will not be a 9+ anymore and you still won't want her.

Remember for every hot woman there is some guy that is tired of her behavior.

 

[Sega Genesis]

I think the most important thing when a relationship ends is to pause, reflect, heal and take inventory of one's self as part of growing through pain. Allow the pain to sit with you as you process things. Don't run & don't wallow. I think the oft heard advice that 'The best way to get over someone is to get under someone else...." is horrible advice.

^^Thanks Be, I 100% agree and apologies to OP for going off topic however I think this advice is spot on and helpful regardless.

Appreciate you sharing your experience, your dad sounds very wise, mine was as well and I learned a lot from him!

Like you, we had a great relationship until he died after a bad fall. I think a girl/woman's relationship with her dad makes a big difference.... so to the guys when choosing women, look for that!

Make it one of your first questions!

Okay, back to main...

 

[Gamisch]

Usually if we/I think a gal is a 9 or a 10, they have high female hormones, acting very feminine. Same hormones drives her crazy some times. Its part of the package. A famous actress in the past was quoted as telling how if a man can not handle her at her worst, he does not deserve her best. The rub is that if she looses the hormones, she will not be a 9+ anymore and you still won't want her.

Remember for every hot woman there is some guy that is tired of her behavior.

A 10 doesn't exist.

Besides that I agree with the last sentence.

Most men want these types of girls until they actually have them and then realise their just a pain in the fvcking a$$ with a raft of mental and insecurity issues which is what is going on here

Their also usually highly promiscuous simply because of the volume of men they are used to interacting with and having attention from

Think kid in candy store

These chicks are good for fvcking if you can get them into bed its a big win

Anything longer term I would be very cautious

You're far better off with a 6.5 - 7.5 a woman thats more down to earth will make your life far easier in the long run

This 100%.

These are the women you want untill you get them , greatly worded.

That's why I personally never understand the passport bro hype. Or I'd say: I start to understand that it's done mostly by men who don't understand women and probably never been with hot women before. Any man who got his fair share of "beautiful drama" will think twice before traveling across the globe only to invite tons of trouble in his life. Doesn't make any sense