Is self-improvement really all that necessary?

[ocho_da_musician]

Online you're gonna see a lot of advice like "focus on yourself bro", get hobbies, interests, dress nice, make money, blah blah blah. But are there not unemployed dudes sitting around drinking beer and watching TV all day and still receiving oral sex from hot babes? And are there still not dudes with multiple degrees, speaking multiple languages, great fashion sense, living at their own place, great social circle, great physique etc. who get no matches on Tinder? Explain this

 

[characternote]

too many variables and pieces to unpack

But self improvement will just improve your odds. Doesn't guarantee anything. But if someone is struggling, it's just the obvious first step (improve body, improve fashion, make more money, meet more people)

And of course there are people who break lots of the rules (although they will have other things that mode than compensate - e.g the chad who has achieved absolutely nothing, unemployed etc but all the girls want him etc)

and it's also about the women you attract. Like, here in the UK there are lots of 'bad boys'/'chavs' who certainly DON'T have their lives together and have no education or job or their own place etc BUT they are always banging girls. Sometimes even very pretty, young ones. But these girls are also broken/similar (e.g very bad if it's an actual 'relationship' you want. You really wouldn't want one as a girlfriend!). It's almost like a secret club and if you are not also a guy from the same council estate who's always in prison, she won't be interested in you lol.

 

[Glassguy]

But are there not unemployed dudes sitting around drinking beer and watching TV all day and still receiving oral sex from hot babes?

If by "hot babes" you mean section 8 housing women with a belly and cottage cheese thighs, maybe. I sure dont see any hot babes going after men who live in their parents basement drinking beer and eating cheetos all day.

Its all about what you want to attract. If you want trailer trash, does self improvement really matter? Those women dont have a purpose other than collecting a check, getting knocked up again for a bigger check from the tax payers and finding their next abuser for a relationship.

If you want to attract successful women who have a purpose and goals in life, youd better be working on self improvement or you are going to get left in the dust. Higher value women will have a lot of options of equal higher value men.

Most people who question self improvement are just flat out lazy. Complacent. Now I am not saying you are either of those, but the easy way out normally leads to poor results.

I am a firm believer that high value women like men who go to the gym, focus on their career, education, life skills, hobbies, etc. And the reason why isnt what a lot of people think it is. Its not all about money. Its about purpose. Being on your purpose to better yourself is attractive to women. Well, at least to higher value women. Because your effort and energy put forth to get what you want matches theirs.

Like the late, great former Ohio State football coach Woody Hayes always said- "Anything easy aint worth a d@mn"

 

[Clockwerk50]

Constantly working towards a goal, whichever that may be and learning new things everyday. Isn’t that the essence of what we call life?

 

[Ricky]

Good god where is your drive and competitiveness. Being your best makes you feel good. It isnt just a vehicle to get women

Being successful also allows you to live a better lifestyle and even help others from time to time.

 

[Mike32ct]

Online you're gonna see a lot of advice like "focus on yourself bro", get hobbies, interests, dress nice, make money, blah blah blah. But are there not unemployed dudes sitting around drinking beer and watching TV all day and still receiving oral sex from hot babes?

Yes, and there also some students who hardly study and still get As. But if you’re not one of them, you have to hit the books and work at it.

And are there still not dudes with multiple degrees, speaking multiple languages, great fashion sense, living at their own place, great social circle, great physique etc. who get no matches on Tinder? Explain this

This second type of guy might be very intelligent and interesting and maybe fit too, but he still might not do well on Tinder. He still might not be an instant panty dropper like a tatted up criminal or a Chad. But he might do very well in a real life social circle where he can better leverage his strengths.

And not every guy is cut out to be a player or one night stand guy. Some are more the relationship type and that’s fine.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

Online you're gonna see a lot of advice like "focus on yourself bro", get hobbies, interests, dress nice, make money, blah blah blah. But are there not unemployed dudes sitting around drinking beer and watching TV all day and still receiving oral sex from hot babes? And are there still not dudes with multiple degrees, speaking multiple languages, great fashion sense, living at their own place, great social circle, great physique etc. who get no matches on Tinder? Explain this

You're oversimplifying things, making a strawman out of the points you disagree with. You should instead steel-man your oppositions points and try to refute those. If you can, it will strengthen your convictions, and if you can't it will open you to change and put you on a better path to truth and wisdom.

You seem determined to argue against self improvement, which has been mentioned is usually rooted in laziness, or fear imo. You've come to this forum for advice and have dismissed seemingly all of the thoughtful replies in your earlier thread, only to start a new one where you're digging your heels in, arguing against improving your own life.

You're putting yourself in a smaller and smaller box. If you would prefer to be the unemployed loser getting sucked off, go hang out in rich areas and some extremely insecure woman might snag you up. You'll be at her mercy unless you become a manipulative monster, and what a deplorable set of skills you'd be honing if that becomes the case.

I'm not going to argue for improving yourself. If you don't believe that to be a great thing to do, then there is a deeper problem you need to address first, like a lack of faith in your abilities, or a lack of awareness of their power.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Online you're gonna see a lot of advice like "focus on yourself bro", get hobbies, interests, dress nice, make money, blah blah blah. But are there not unemployed dudes sitting around drinking beer and watching TV all day and still receiving oral sex from hot babes? And are there still not dudes with multiple degrees, speaking multiple languages, great fashion sense, living at their own place, great social circle, great physique etc. who get no matches on Tinder? Explain this

Face.

 

[ocho_da_musician]

Good god where is your drive and competitiveness. Being your best makes you feel good. It isnt just a vehicle to get women

Being successful also allows you to live a better lifestyle and even help others from time to time.

Bold of you to assume that I'm not driven and competitive, this post isn't supposed to be about me bro

 

[ocho_da_musician]

You're oversimplifying things, making a strawman out of the points you disagree with. You should instead steel-man your oppositions points and try to refute those. If you can, it will strengthen your convictions, and if you can't it will open you to change and put you on a better path to truth and wisdom.

You seem determined to argue against self improvement, which has been mentioned is usually rooted in laziness, or fear imo. You've come to this forum for advice and have dismissed seemingly all of the thoughtful replies in your earlier thread, only to start a new one where you're digging your heels in, arguing against improving your own life.

You're putting yourself in a smaller and smaller box. If you would prefer to be the unemployed loser getting sucked off, go hang out in rich areas and some extremely insecure woman might snag you up. You'll be at her mercy unless you become a manipulative monster, and what a deplorable set of skills you'd be honing if that becomes the case.

I'm not going to argue for improving yourself. If you don't believe that to be a great thing to do, then there is a deeper problem you need to address first, like a lack of faith in your abilities, or a lack of awareness of their power.

No, I have no problem with self-improvement. I'm just having a hard time buying into the idea that it's guaranteed to increase your lay count. I ain't gonna lie, you guys seem pretty hostile on this forum, not sure if I'm gonna stick around fr

 

[BPH]

No, I have no problem with self-improvement. I'm just having a hard time buying into the idea that it's guaranteed to increase your lay count. I ain't gonna lie, you guys seem pretty hostile on this forum, not sure if I'm gonna stick around fr

You're asking for help while simultaneously disregarding the idea of self-improvement because you can't grasp how it will DIRECTLY increase your lay count.

If that's too hard for you, maybe you shouldn't be here. This forum is about self-improvement as it pertains to seducing women - not a place to be coddled.

 

[characternote]

No, I have no problem with self-improvement. I'm just having a hard time buying into the idea that it's guaranteed

But self improvement will just improve your odds. Doesn't guarantee anything

 

[New_Journey]

Online you're gonna see a lot of advice like "focus on yourself bro", get hobbies, interests, dress nice, make money, blah blah blah. But are there not unemployed dudes sitting around drinking beer and watching TV all day and still receiving oral sex from hot babes? And are there still not dudes with multiple degrees, speaking multiple languages, great fashion sense, living at their own place, great social circle, great physique etc. who get no matches on Tinder? Explain this

The only thing here to explain is that, in your little brain, you're focused on getting sex, you're an extremely thirsty guy who is looking for a cheat code to get what you most desire in live "sex". Wrong approach my friend.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Explain this

Most guys misunderstand the recommendation to "improve yourself."

They "improve themselves" in ways that won't really help them get better with women.

Getting several degrees won't really help with women any more than doing pushups or lifting will help you learn martial arts.

Self improvement must be directed toward a specific goal.

If you want to improve your results with women, then you need to improve a specific collection of skills, not just some random collection of "self improvement" ideas.

Being social, having conversational skills, being able to read and interpret body language, being able to "read the room," knowing when to escalate, knowing if she's genuinely into you or just being polite, etc.

Improve yourself in these areas and you'll get better with women.

BUT, since most guys are absolutely terrified of doing these things, they "improve themselves" in areas that are less emotionally terrifying, like lifting, getting degrees etc., only to realize it doesn't help.

THEN they come to the conclusion that "self improvement" doesn't work.

To be successful in ANY area of you life you absolutely MUST continue to improve yourself until you die.

But the self improvement must be highly calibrated to what you want to get, not self improvement that's easy.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

No, I have no problem with self-improvement. I'm just having a hard time buying into the idea that it's guaranteed to increase your lay count. I ain't gonna lie, you guys seem pretty hostile on this forum, not sure if I'm gonna stick around fr

Then you are not ready to hear the truth grasshoppa. Show respect and it will be shown to you. Explore the profiles that resonate with you, read the ancient texts, and keep an open mind.

Your potential in life is only limited by the extent to which you are willing to change.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Ready for a several hot takes on self improvement?

#1 any self improvement that is done with an ulterior motive to attract women is a complete waste of time. You cannot sincerely improve yourself when you are seeking to do it for an end goal such as social approval. Self improvement must only be done for its own sake and your own personal fulfilment, and in a sense it's not really self improvement but simply living your life in accordance with your principles, values, and goals.

#2 unless you're broke, out of shape, dress like a dork, or socially stunted with the 'tism, you don't need to improve yourself to attract women - you're enough. Where you (and by you I mean any given man) is likely actually lacking is your knowledge of deep level game that goes beyond just trying to smash, basically everything that relates to understanding women's nature ie their manipulative tactics, shvt tests, gaslighting, holding frame, gut feelings, boundary setting, etc. This is what matters, and this is where most men are severely lacking. You don't need more money or social skills, you need more masculine boundaries and frame.

#3 the idea that if a man "chases excellence" and women will come is a meme that needs to go away. Yes, being more wealthy, fit, etc will make you more attractive, but if you do not understand women's nature, all this will do is serve to make you more vulnerable to be manipulated. Plus, if you have no game, charisma, etc women won't be drawn to you regardless of how rich/how big your muscles are. This idea is complete cope through and through.

#4 self improvement, in any context, is a complete joke in concept. It's a facade that amounts to nothing more than action faking mental masturbation. You cannot improve yourself in the way you think you can. Watch Alan Watts for more:

 

[corrector]

No, I have no problem with self-improvement. I'm just having a hard time buying into the idea that it's guaranteed to increase your lay count. I ain't gonna lie, you guys seem pretty hostile on this forum, not sure if I'm gonna stick around fr

You need to talk to women with any self improvement reguime. The negative outcomes would not be as severe as what you are writing about now and your presence would be more commanding. You may even get IOIs. These small ego boosts matter as they either build or erode your confidence.

There is no guarantee any self improvement will result in lays if you are not meeting women. But you trying so it should help you get at least better ego outcomes from daily interactions.

 

[BeExcellent]

Ok. I was nice and polite in the other thread. Now the gloves are gonna come off.

By the way - this is what my own children hear on the regular, so this is not in the interest of offending you....its REALITY. So buckle up buttercup.

1. The world does not care about you and you are NOT a special snowflake. The world cares about results. You have no results right now. Your current status is exactly where we'd expect it to be, because you resist making effort, and you want to argue about it.

How's that working out for you?

You live in a fantasy land expecting hot women to line up to give your lazy ass a blow job. You think that actually happens. Um, no. Quit watching porn. That's not how life works.

2. You are an invisible loser with nothing to offer right now as far as hot women are concerned. You are invisible. When you try to force yourself to be seen you are tossed out for being creepy. That's not good dude. But that is your current reality.

3. Explain to me why any sensible cute or hot woman would give you the time of day? What do you bring to the table FOR HER? Nothing? While other men have careers and fitness and looks and a fun vibe?

Meanwhile she's pretty, stylish, working, has her own place, has an education, has various men trying to get with her? She wants someone she can relate to, who she can look up to.

She cannot look up to you because you have not developed yourself. See #1, the world does not care about you, the world cares about results. No effort on your part = no results on your part = no attention from girls (who have 1000 better guys on their radar.)

This is your current reality. Time to pull your ass out of fantasy porn-fed land and show up in the reality. You don't like that reality? Well. I have good news and I have bad news:

Its up to YOU to change your reality.

There are some really amazing men here trying to help you through the advice given.

But nobody is going to powder your ass and hug you and tell you you're a winner.

Unless you are.

Good news/bad news: You are the architecht of your life. What are you building?

 

[Manure Spherian]

But are there not unemployed dudes sitting around drinking beer and watching TV all day and still receiving oral sex from hot babes?

Actually there are unemployed dudes who get women but they don’t sit around drinking beer and watching TV all day. You’re likely not the sort who can get away with that. Typically such men have other things going for them that women lust for despite being unemployed: gang membership, criminality, looks, anti-social behavior, baby momma/daddy drama, previous experience with women (not qualities we want, but I’m speaking in the context you are).

Some men don’t have to become better to get women. Most of us do. I’m included, and had to work on myself before I started attracting some women long ago. And I definitely improved to eventually find a wife and become a father.

Here is such an example of a criminal, couch surfer, and drug user swimmin’ in hoes. This a revealing interview I posted before, and though he might be lying about some things, I believe he isn’t lying about most.

 

[SW15]

The world does not care about you and you are NOT a special snowflake. The world cares about results. You have no results right now. Your current status is exactly where we'd expect it to be, because you resist making effort, and you want to argue about it.

The last 2 generations (Gen Y/Millennials and now Gen Z) have had "special snowflake syndrome". This started to emerge from the participation trophy and self-esteeming boosting culture that started to permeate parenting and K-12 schools in the 1990s.

You are an invisible loser with nothing to offer right now as far as hot women are concerned. You are invisible.

There are so many men who are invisible to women. There are men who offer more than this poster is offering who are invisible.

Men need to do self-improvement initiatives to just be visible and even have a chance. Having a chance isn't a guarantee of anything.

When you try to force yourself to be seen you are tossed out for being creepy. That's not good dude. But that is your current reality.

This is bad for this poster. I have done many approaches in many indoor retail venues and never once been kicked out of a venue.

In order to get kicked out of an indoor retail venue for approaching, a man needs to be very socially uncalibrated.