We must open our horizons and date internationally

Pandora

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This was inspired by the brother @cola latest post. Gentlemen it is a global world. No one is loyal to their nation anymore. Corporations are hiring internationally and displacing American workers, women are dating internationally and being flown out, it is time we do the same.

Foreign women are not perfect but they often come from cultures that suppress their chaos. If you are still banging your head against that wall dating in America you have no one to blame but yourself. You are not a victim. You can do something. American women are done. It is OVER. The early 2000s are not coming back. Accept this fact. Even if you do find a unicorn she will eventually use the family courts against you.

You have to hurry with the overseas thing because even those women are getting corrupted. Social media is creating a homogenous global culture. I know you are sick of me shilling for passport bros but this is the only answer. I love you guys. This place has been a safe haven for me since 2008. I am telling you to go overseas before that well dries up.
 

BackInTheGame78

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If you are doing it for the right purpose then that's fine. Too many men use this as a cover to simply find women who have low standards so they can find someone willing to go out with them.

Instead of looking in the mirror and accepting they have things they need to improve and work on, they look for the shortcut to not do any work and find someone who just has low standards.

Unfortunately that only covers up so much. The same issues that make them unattractive to women wherever they struggle will make them unattractive to these women also. They will accept it for a while until they can afford to worry about how attracted they are to the man versus their safety and finances. When they are simply trying to survive daily, anyone who offers them a chance to get out of that will be like a gold mine to them.

But once they get out of that place and get settled with them after a few years, they no longer have these worries. Then the same issues the man felt they could get around by finding a woman with low standards instead of improving their SMV and mindset to help them do better where they were lead to the very same outcomes they had while dating where they were.

You can never succeed long term when you look for ways to get around self-improvement and success by trying to lower your standard for those things.

You will always end up failing eventually because that's not how life works and that's not how women or attraction works either.
 

Clockwerk50

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Don't make women your mission and the grinding never stops. If you can't find what you're looking for at home, it's worth questioning why you need to go abroad for, especially considering that the quality of life in many third-world countries is often worse than in first-world ones.
 

SW15

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Men in Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and the United States have been looking to Eastern Europe, Asia, and Latin America since the 1990s-2000s. I remember hearing about international travel for mating purposes when I was young adult in the 2000s.

The thing that has changed since the 2000s is that more men realized that they have to stay over in that traditional culture nation. In the 2000s, I heard more men taking their Eastern European/Asian/Latin American woman back to the Western home country. Since then, guidance has been provided to men that the idea of bringing a non-Western woman to the West is a bad idea because the non-Western woman will start to become Westernized. That often dooms the relationship.
 

Solomon

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Don't make women your mission and the grinding never stops. If you can't find what you're looking for at home, it's worth questioning why you need to go abroad for, especially considering that the quality of life in many third-world countries is often worse than in first-world ones.
I totally agree with his but I also agree with OP, when he says you're not the victim, it's scary how many men have turned to women in the last decade with a victim mentality. I used to enjoy going on X to read random topics but I try avoid relationship/red pill topics like the plagues because it's nothing but whiny incels trying to virtue signal. Newsflash you can't shame women in 2025

Regardless as a man you must take inventory of your life in a brutal honest fashion(which most men aren't willing to do cause it's easier to blame someone else for their faults) and work nonstop until you become the ideal version of yourself. Yes I know it's easier said then done but we have many members in this forum who have done or are doing it!
 

You essentially upped your VALUE in her eyes by showing her that, if she wants you, she has to at times do things that you like to do. You are SOMETHING after all. You are NOT FREE. If she wants to hang with you, it's going to cost her something — time, effort, money.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Gamisch

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Men in Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and the United States have been looking to Eastern Europe, Asia, and Latin America since the 1990s-2000s. I remember hearing about international travel for mating purposes when I was young adult in the 2000s.

The thing that has changed since the 2000s is that more men realized that they have to stay over in that traditional culture nation. In the 2000s, I heard more men taking their Eastern European/Asian/Latin American woman back to the Western home country. Since then, guidance has been provided to men that the idea of bringing a non-Western woman to the West is a bad idea because the non-Western woman will start to become Westernized. That often dooms the relationship.
It's better to find women where you are located. This whole passport bro bs should be the ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT. It's as bad as relying on hookers.

What makes you think you will have more success with a woman who grew up in much harder conditions, where men are also much tougher? It's a shot in the dark.
 

CornbreadFed

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Geomaxxing/Interracialmaxxing is the equivalent of not cleaning up your apartment and moving because it is infested with roaches. Eventually, your shiny new apartment, will just become infested with roaches with time. When low quality men/broken men do this, they are just pushing back their bullshvt to the back of the line.
 

Pandora

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If you are doing it for the right purpose then that's fine. Too many men use this as a cover to simply find women who have low standards so they can find someone willing to go out with them.

Instead of looking in the mirror and accepting they have things they need to improve and work on, they look for the shortcut to not do any work and find someone who just has low standards.

Unfortunately that only covers up so much. The same issues that make them unattractive to women wherever they struggle will make them unattractive to these women also. They will accept it for a while until they can afford to worry about how attracted they are to the man versus their safety and finances. When they are simply trying to survive daily, anyone who offers them a chance to get out of that will be like a gold mine to them.

But once they get out of that place and get settled with them after a few years, they no longer have these worries. Then the same issues the man felt they could get around by finding a woman with low standards instead of improving their SMV and mindset to help them do better where they were lead to the very same outcomes they had while dating where they were.

You can never succeed long term when you look for ways to get around self-improvement and success by trying to lower your standard for those things.

You will always end up failing eventually because that's not how life works and that's not how women or attraction works either.
Women overseas are not low standard women. If you ever dated overseas alot of these women are mature, bilingual and more interesting to talk to.

Many of the guys that go foreign are men that are attractive. I promise that if you ever go out on the town with me I can school most of these so called players.

The issue is that I missed the boat. You need to lock a girl down in college. After college in you are done.

Even if you lock a girl down in the USA the threat of divorce rape hangs over your head.

The only way to do well in the USA is if there is a drastic SMV difference in looks between you and the girl.

If there were so many quality women in the USA you would be married with kids. The US is wack.

The new American dream is to leave America.
 

Pandora

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Geomaxxing/Interracialmaxxing is the equivalent of not cleaning up your apartment and moving because it is infested with roaches. Eventually, your shiny new apartment, will just become infested with roaches with time. When low quality men/broken men do this, they are just pushing back their bullshvt to the back of the line.
Are you saying that most men that travel overseas are fat unattractive losers?

In my experience most of the men that date overseas have a little disposable income atleast. They are also fairly attractive guys.

Your statement implies that American women are some prize. Like they are the objective standard.

Bro the rest of the world laughs at American women. They are looked at as the hoes of the world.

My point is that men travel overseas not because they cant get American women. They dont WANT American women.

You guys act like getting women in America is some super mystical difficult thing to do lol.
 

Pandora

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It's better to find women where you are located. This whole passport bro bs should be the ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT. It's as bad as relying on hookers.

What makes you think you will have more success with a woman who grew up in much harder conditions, where men are also much tougher? It's a shot in the dark.
It is better to find women where you live I agree in ideal circumstances. We dont live in ideal circumstances.

Most American women are not good people. Then about 50% are single mothers. Then 25% of the rest are fat. The remaining chicks have already been emotionally damaged.

Im not saying this as a dude that did not have success dating. I did well.

Sometimes the grass really is greener. For example if you go to Armenia every girl is atleast thin. Do you understand how this changes everything?

Most women being thin changes the dating market drastically brotha. Thats just one example .

Another example is single motherhood is rare. It is very rare in some of these nations. This also changes everything.

Another example is that there is no child support so the incentive is to work things out. This changes everything also.

I do agree that you take whatever personal issues you have with you. This is true. What is also true is that sometimes the grass is greener.
 

Pandora

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American men dont understand how badly cucked they are. This is the issue. We except the worst behavior from women.

You go to a restaurant in an EE country and a hottie walks in. The men barely turn their head. That same chick in America would have legions of dudes just hanging off her ( this is changing slowly tho).

We except so much bad behavior that our women are now telling us that we are worth less than a damn bear.

So it makes sense that people demonize men that go over seas.
 

Pandora

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Men in Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and the United States have been looking to Eastern Europe, Asia, and Latin America since the 1990s-2000s. I remember hearing about international travel for mating purposes when I was young adult in the 2000s.

The thing that has changed since the 2000s is that more men realized that they have to stay over in that traditional culture nation. In the 2000s, I heard more men taking their Eastern European/Asian/Latin American woman back to the Western home country. Since then, guidance has been provided to men that the idea of bringing a non-Western woman to the West is a bad idea because the non-Western woman will start to become Westernized. That often dooms the relationship.
Yeh bro exactly. I got lucky in that my girl can not come to the USA ever ( not for atleast 10 yrs or so).

I will never bring one back. Its a bad idea.

I am not saying that foreign women are perfect. They are still women. My relationship may go up in flames..who knows the future?

I am saying that it was refreshing to date overseas. It showed me how fun women can be again. Talking to a 7/10 that does not know that she is a 7/10 is a fun experience.

Talking to a woman who does not have an adverserial mindset was also a good experience.

I cant go back. I cant ever take USA chicks serious again.
 

Pandora

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Don't make women your mission and the grinding never stops. If you can't find what you're looking for at home, it's worth questioning why you need to go abroad for, especially considering that the quality of life in many third-world countries is often worse than in first-world ones.
This is true. The quality of life aint the same. It is definately trade offs. The quality of life in the USA aint all that great either. Its pick your poison.
 

plumber

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It does make sense to date world wide if you can. Just like it makes sense to include a world view in most things. With modern tech, the world is reachable all the time. It is sort of naïve to block out the rest of the world.

One of the things we usually don't catch on to is that the first language a person learns affects how they think. Women AND men think different depending on root language they have.

For some men passport makes sense. Why would anyone want to struggle more just to prove that they can. There is no secret sauce, just do what works as life is only a short time. Of course some passport setups are not going to work out...

Chances are just as good with a passport girl as a local. Either way one has to understand what is going on.

If you can have some good times and enjoy, just do it.

All women have two versions, the one that wants you and the one that doesn't.
 

Pandora

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It does make sense to date world wide if you can. Just like it makes sense to include a world view in most things. With modern tech, the world is reachable all the time. It is sort of naïve to block out the rest of the world.

One of the things we usually don't catch on to is that the first language a person learns affects how they think. Women AND men think different depending on root language they have.

For some men passport makes sense. Why would anyone want to struggle more just to prove that they can. There is no secret sauce, just do what works as life is only a short time. Of course some passport setups are not going to work out...

Chances are just as good with a passport girl as a local. Either way one has to understand what is going on.

If you can have some good times and enjoy, just do it.

All women have two versions, the one that wants you and the one that doesn't.
Well stated!
 

At this point you probably have a woman (or multiple women) chasing you around, calling you all the time, wanting to be with you. So let's talk about how to KEEP a woman interested in you once you have her. This is BIG! There is nothing worse than getting dumped by a woman that you really, really like.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Vanderdonck

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Well I don't think it's a "must," to each his own, but I recommend stepping outside your bubble if you're in one.

However I've never been a proponent of "work on X before you work on Y" so wherever you are in the world, if there are women there, seduce them in the meantime while you work on your life's goals.

Personally I could not wait to get out of my homogeneous hometown and give the wheel a spin. I landed on some beautiful women from all over but more importantly, I had adventures and experiences I'll always treasure. Staying put and settling down with the typical American future Karen was never in the cards for me. But we all have our own path.
 

SW15

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I will never bring one back. Its a bad idea.

I am not saying that foreign women are perfect. They are still women. My relationship may go up in flames..who knows the future?
When women from non-Western nations leave their homeland for the USA/other Western nations, they can tend to adopt the worst traits of Western women.

One of the worst examples of this is Kornelija Slunjski (Koko Beaute on social media). She grew up in Croatia but has lived in New York City and Miami over the past decade +. I made a thread about her.

https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...happen-when-riding-the-penis-carousel.282643/

I don't think she came to the USA in a relationship though.

In what ways do you think that bringing a woman from Eastern Europe/Latin America/Asia to the USA is a bad idea?

I have read that these women tend to adopt the worst traits of USA/Western women with enough time in the USA or another Westernized country. After the initial relationship breaks up, she tends to date like a Western woman. She might not be as bad as a Koko Beaute, but she's still bad.

I am saying that it was refreshing to date overseas. It showed me how fun women can be again. Talking to a 7/10 that does not know that she is a 7/10 is a fun experience.

Talking to a woman who does not have an adverserial mindset was also a good experience.

I cant go back. I cant ever take USA chicks serious again.
In major USA cities, I have had the opportunity to date women born & mostly raised in non-Western regions.

The women weren't the real deal because they were now living in a major USA city when they met me.

Some of them were comparatively pleasant as compared to USA born & raised women. Some didn't seem that much different from a USA born & raised woman.
 

Westminster

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It does make sense to date world wide if you can. Just like it makes sense to include a world view in most things. With modern tech, the world is reachable all the time. It is sort of naïve to block out the rest of the world.

One of the things we usually don't catch on to is that the first language a person learns affects how they think. Women AND men think different depending on root language they have.

For some men passport makes sense. Why would anyone want to struggle more just to prove that they can. There is no secret sauce, just do what works as life is only a short time. Of course some passport setups are not going to work out...

Chances are just as good with a passport girl as a local. Either way one has to understand what is going on.

If you can have some good times and enjoy, just do it.

All women have two versions, the one that wants you and the one that doesn't.
Spot on, brother.
 

BackInTheGame78

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Women overseas are not low standard women. If you ever dated overseas alot of these women are mature, bilingual and more interesting to talk to.

Many of the guys that go foreign are men that are attractive. I promise that if you ever go out on the town with me I can school most of these so called players.

The issue is that I missed the boat. You need to lock a girl down in college. After college in you are done.

Even if you lock a girl down in the USA the threat of divorce rape hangs over your head.

The only way to do well in the USA is if there is a drastic SMV difference in looks between you and the girl.

If there were so many quality women in the USA you would be married with kids. The US is wack.

The new American dream is to leave America.
This is all bullsh!t for the most part.
 

SW15

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American men dont understand how badly cucked they are. This is the issue. We except the worst behavior from women.
I agree that American men expect the worst behavior and tolerate a lot of bad behavior. That doesn't automatically make a man a cuck. A man becomes a cuck when his monogamous relationship girlfriend or wife has sex with another man. Most men do still find female infidelity to be unacceptable but there are men that will still tolerate that behavior.

In the past, men were having extramarital/extrarelational sex more than women. Since the 1980s, women have closed the infidelity gap with men.


A lot of USA-based social science research on infidelity is faulty. Much of the research focuses on married couples and who cheats after a wedding day. Research is more limited on unmarried exclusive couples and who cheats more in those.

In terms of infidelity, men have more desire to have sex outside of the primary relationship but less opportunity to do so. Women have less desire to do so but far more opportunity to do so.

It is rather difficult for a mid-tier married men or mid-tier unmarried LTR men to get outside sex. Men have more desire to have outside sex because of higher testosterone levels. Men's testosterone levels are significantly above where women's are, even in a time of declining testosterone levels among men.

Women's lower testosterone levels reduce their desire to have extramarital and extrarelational sex. Also, in terms of biology, women could have greater consequences for infidelity as they could get pregnant. Many women who engage in extramarital/extrarelational sex will take steps to prevent pregnancy and the birth control methods that are used are usually effective. However, the presence of reliable birth control is a somewhat modern advancement as compared to thousands of years of biology. If a woman decides she wants sex outside her primary relationship, she can get it rather easily if she's under 50-55. It becomes even easier if she's not overweight and looks reasonably good.

Another way that American men are getting cucked is through committed relationships with single moms. Many American men get into committed relationships with single moms, including childless men. While it is somewhat understandable when a man with a child/children from a previous relationship gets into a committed relationship with a woman with a child/children from a previous relationship, it is not understandable when a childless man does this.

Even if you lock a girl down in the USA the threat of divorce rape hangs over your head.
This is a valid concern for USA men who choose to get married.

The family law system in the USA is very unfair to men. In divorces, men tend to get less favorable financial outcomes and less favorable child custody arrangements. Much of this depends upon the 2 individuals getting divorced and how they legally resolve the issues. Some divorces involve more litigation and time spend in court than others.

You guys act like getting women in America is some super mystical difficult thing to do lol.
It is something that is difficult for a good portion of mid-tier men to do. Mid-tier men have a more difficult time getting initial sex and retaining women in longer term relationships. A good portion of men eventually settle for something because they are seeking more frequent sex than being an unattached man who struggles to get sex.

If there were so many quality women in the USA you would be married with kids. The US is wack.
Most men in the USA do eventually get married and do have kids. There are still plenty of USA men in the suburbs with wives and children.

My "Pregnancy Announcements Everywhere" thread about the blue pilled beta males in my social circle getting married and having children within a few years of the wedding is a good example of this. I think you have posted on that thread in the past.
 

What happens, IN HER MIND, is that she comes to see you as WORTHLESS simply because she hasn't had to INVEST anything in you in order to get you or to keep you.

You were an interesting diversion while she had nothing else to do. But now that someone a little more valuable has come along, someone who expects her to treat him very well, she'll have no problem at all dropping you or demoting you to lowly "friendship" status.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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