Haven't been building attraction - need to switch it up

[TOneThousand]

Lately notice a pattern where I have rapport with a woman but I don't lead it to building real attraction. Example is go on bumble date with a woman, good conversation, have a good time, we makeout a little at the end of the night. Then we'll text, she says she wants to meet again but she doesn't really pursue or push for another meet. It seems like if I were building attraction, she'd being pushing to meet again.


Similar situation. With a buddy met two girls at a bar on a saturday night. I ask the girls if they're ordering food/when the kitchen closes. I end up talking to one (Moviegirl) and buddy's talking to the other (Saladgirl). Moviegirl mentions one of her favorite movies and I tell her that movie is fn lame. She likes this and asks what my favorite movie is. I tell one and ask her if she knows it. She says "yes and I love that director". We talk about the director etc.


Felt good chemistry with Moviegirl. Meanwhile Saladgirl got a salad and asked me and my friend to help her finish it... weird but ok


Moviegirl and I talk about beaches and the ones she likes to go to. I joke that we need to checkout that beach


We probably interacted for 20-30 minutes and the bar was closing soon. I added Moviegirl on instagram and she followed me a few minutes later. I message her the next night calling back on her lame favorite movie. She never responded, so obvious I didn't get enough attraction going in the interaction for her to feel invested enough to message with me


In these examples rapport seems good and feels like at least some chemistry, but strong attraction not so much. I need to work on that in interactions know that these are things I could do better with...


-Digging into deeper more meaningful conversation
-Push and pull
-Better eye contact
-Being more purposeful with kino
-Work in more humor


Love to hear other suggestions. Cheers!

 

[BPH]

Ok, a couple things here...

1. YOU are the man, YOU have to make the plans. You don't get to let off the gas until after you f*** her, and f*** her right. If you've done your job it will be much easier to maintain those relationships because you will no longer be some guy who just wants to get in her pants, you will have provided HER something (ideally an orgasm).

2. It looks like you lack the confidence to escalate in both of these situations. What happened to the first girl? You mentioned you were making out by the end of the night, why didn't it go further? Did you even try? YOU have to be the one that shows her it's ok to move further because women fear rejection just like we do - but if you turn down HER advances she'll think there's something wrong with her. And how about Moviegirl? You and your buddy were obviously out late and they were enjoying your company enough to stay until close. "What are you girls doing after? Do you want to go to this late night bar/postgame with my buddy/damn near anything to continue the night?" Hell, if Saladgirl liked your buddy too you could probably be a bit more forward and suggest they both go to whoever's place afterwards.

3. Phone numbers. Not Instagram. Not Snapchat. Be a man. Most times, anything less is a copout that fuels their follower count/snap score addiction.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Lately notice a pattern where I have rapport with a woman but I don't lead it to building real attraction. Example is go on bumble date with a woman, good conversation, have a good time, we makeout a little at the end of the night. Then we'll text, she says she wants to meet again but she doesn't really pursue or push for another meet. It seems like if I were building attraction, she'd being pushing to meet again.

A couple of points:

-What was the nature of this conversation you've labelled "good"? If you were regaling this chick with tales of your lifelong battle with IBS, she likely doesn't share your charitable assessment of the chat

-Did you all actually make out, or did you kiss her at the end of the date, stick your hand up her shirt, only for her to swat it away almost instantly, then say: "I'm not ready for that just yet"

-It's your role to pursue, not hers

 

[holidayad_]

-It's your role to pursue, not hers

I think it depends on the OP's feeling about the situation.

I don't recommend chasing after women, as I rarely do that myself.

If a chick is interested, she will likely chase you.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Lately notice a pattern where I have rapport with a woman but I don't lead it to building real attraction. Example is go on bumble date with a woman, good conversation, have a good time, we makeout a little at the end of the night. Then we'll text, she says she wants to meet again but she doesn't really pursue or push for another meet. It seems like if I were building attraction, she'd being pushing to meet again.


Similar situation. With a buddy met two girls at a bar on a saturday night. I ask the girls if they're ordering food/when the kitchen closes. I end up talking to one (Moviegirl) and buddy's talking to the other (Saladgirl). Moviegirl mentions one of her favorite movies and I tell her that movie is fn lame. She likes this and asks what my favorite movie is. I tell one and ask her if she knows it. She says "yes and I love that director". We talk about the director etc.


Felt good chemistry with Moviegirl. Meanwhile Saladgirl got a salad and asked me and my friend to help her finish it... weird but ok


Moviegirl and I talk about beaches and the ones she likes to go to. I joke that we need to checkout that beach


We probably interacted for 20-30 minutes and the bar was closing soon. I added Moviegirl on instagram and she followed me a few minutes later. I message her the next night calling back on her lame favorite movie. She never responded, so obvious I didn't get enough attraction going in the interaction for her to feel invested enough to message with me


In these examples rapport seems good and feels like at least some chemistry, but strong attraction not so much. I need to work on that in interactions know that these are things I could do better with...


-Digging into deeper more meaningful conversation
-Push and pull
-Better eye contact
-Being more purposeful with kino
-Work in more humor


Love to hear other suggestions. Cheers!

No bro...you seem to miss the boat with movie girl .

She probably was open to fvcking you that night but was disappointed you didn't even try and was like WTF is wrong with this dude?

While you are re worrying about building attraction, all you likely has to do is go for the close instead of Instagram.

Like a bad salesman who continues to try and sell after the customer gives buying signals and then loses the sale without even trying close them. You didn't need to do more things to try and sell her on you, you simply needed to close at the proper time.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I don't recommend chasing after women...

Thus I said "pursue" I.E. When that first broad mentioned in a text that she wanted to see OP again, it was incumbent on him to set up a time, place, and activity

 

[TOneThousand]

Ok, a couple things here...

2. It looks like you lack the confidence to escalate in both of these situations. What happened to the first girl? You mentioned you were making out by the end of the night, why didn't it go further? Did you even try? YOU have to be the one that shows her it's ok to move further because women fear rejection just like we do - but if you turn down HER advances she'll think there's something wrong with her. And how about Moviegirl? You and your buddy were obviously out late and they were enjoying your company enough to stay until close. "What are you girls doing after? Do you want to go to this late night bar/postgame with my buddy/damn near anything to continue the night?" Hell, if Saladgirl liked your buddy too you could probably be a bit more forward and suggest they both go to whoever's place afterwards.

Yeah you're right I was too cautious and not confident enough both times. The first girl we texted back and forth, I asked her "do you want to get together Sunday" she said "I would but I have a family birthday party". We've texted a little since then but it's gotten quiet. The night she and I were kissing it was just some lightweight making out and me feeling her body. I didn't try for more, your suggestion that I should have at least tried to escalate more is a good point.

My expectation was that she'd start texting me more to get me to ask her to hang out again. Obviously I need to adjust my expectations in those spots

In hindsight yep I definitely should have escalated/tried to nail the movie girl. At the time I was caught up in starting a conversation with two random girls and keeping it going, I didn't think beyond that which was a fu(kup. I can get better at that

I can definitely make a point to get numbers instead of IG, I could have easily done that with that girl

@BaronOfHair - the "good" conversation was about music, concerts, weird people she works with, a weekend trip I went on. As much as I love IBS talk, it didn't come up . It was the first time I met her so a lot of get to know you sh@t. The making out was some kissing and me feeling her body, nothing heavy. I hear you that I need to lead the situation somewhere and not just let it go by. I need to focus on escalating more

@holidayad_ - I struggle with knowing when to let the girl chase and when I need to lead/pursue. This usually results in me being to passive and not pursuing enough. It's something I need to do better with

@BackInTheGame78 - Yep I think you summed it up man. I should definitely have made it happen with the movie girl. The salesman analogy probably hits the nail on the head. There's a theme in all these responses that I'm not escalating the right way and not leading things somewhere. Thanks

So moral of the story, get better at escalating and be more aggressive/confident about it

 

[BPH]

Yeah you're right I was too cautious and not confident enough both times. The first girl we texted back and forth, I asked her "do you want to get together Sunday" she said "I would but I have a family birthday party". We've texted a little since then but it's gotten quiet. The night she and I were kissing it was just some lightweight making out and me feeling her body. I didn't try for more, your suggestion that I should have at least tried to escalate more is a good point.

My expectation was that she'd start texting me more to get me to ask her to hang out again. Obviously I need to adjust my expectations in those spots

I'm gonna try to break down your response, starting with this.

When it comes to texting and setting up plans, here's what I'd suggest to you:

• Instead of "do you want to" starting getting used to talking "hey let's (insert whatever + whenever here)". It's more direct, more assertive, and instead of a "yes" or "no" if she's not able/interested she'll stop you there, rather than having to think about how to answer your question.
• A good sign that she's actually interested but truthfully not available is if she suggests an alternative. Your girl did not do that, so you're fighting a bit of an uphill battle.
• Finally, if she didn't suggest an alternative, you can straight-up ask her when she is available. If she gives you a day and time, great. If she gives you any variation of "I have to think about it" or "I'm not sure" then it's really not worth putting in anymore effort unless she does a 180.

I can definitely make a point to get numbers instead of IG, I could have easily done that with that girl

Always.

I have literally had women tell me they liked that I had the balls to ask for their number instead of their Instagram or Snapchat. I didn't even know that was a thing until I started hearing these praises more often.

I made a response in @jamesfromhouston 's thread about how you can get pretty far when it comes to women by simply being a man and not being weird. The guys you're competing with are GARBAGE...you just have to do a little better; don't double/triple/quadruple text, don't ask for her Snap or Insta because you're afraid of going straight for the number, don't start getting emotional when you're left on read or your calls aren't answered, etc.

Think about how you would behave if you had options and could walk away, and just do that.

@holidayad_ - I struggle with knowing when to let the girl chase and when I need to lead/pursue. This usually results in me being to passive and not pursuing enough. It's something I need to do better with

I STRONGLY disagree with this philosophy. The entire reason I came to this board when I was frustrated with women in high school was because I wanted to CHOOSE...not wait to be CHOSEN.

A woman, generally, has to have incredibly high interest to chase YOU before you've given her a reason. They don't just start out with high interest...they might give you some eye contact, or move closer to you, or smile at you - but still do this in the hopes that YOU pursue THEM.

I cannot tell you how many women I've slept with while out at the bars while they probably didn't even know I was there until I approached them. You just want to wait and hope they grow the balls you're showing them you don't have?

F*** that. I came here because I was surrounded by people who settled for whatever women made it easy for them; friend groups, coworkers, etc and realized I didn't want that.

 

[holidayad_]

I cannot tell you how many women I've slept with while out at the bars while they probably didn't even know I was there until I approached them. You just want to wait and hope they grow the balls you're showing them you don't have?

This has nothing to do with that. OP had already established contact with these chicks. That’s why I said OP needs to understand his feelings about the situation and act accordingly.

Without reading the situation correctly, you might miss out on a lot of opportunities for sure but, at the same time, you need to understand when it's time to step back.

The thing with this 'philosophy' is that you don’t need to act like a hungry, thirsty dog to get some. In other words, you don’t need to be needy and desperate. Especially when you already have an established contact with a chick.

A woman, generally, has to have incredibly high interest to chase YOU before you've given her a reason. They don't just start out with high interest...they might give you some eye contact, or move closer to you, or smile at you - but still do this in the hopes that YOU pursue THEM.

Yes. But in this situation, you haven't made contact yet. For her to chase you, you need to act (not always, but most of the time).

 

[BPH]

This has nothing to do with that. OP had already established contact with these chicks. That’s why I said OP needs to understand his feelings about the situation and act accordingly.

Without reading the situation correctly, you might miss out on a lot of opportunities for sure but, at the same time, you need to understand when it's time to step back.

The thing with this 'philosophy' is that you don’t need to act like a hungry, thirsty dog to get some. In other words, you don’t need to be needy and desperate. Especially when you already have an established contact with a chick.

I agree in the context of THESE girls.

I was just voicing that he has to be the initiator when it comes to meeting women though.

 

[Clockwerk50]

The silver lining here is that at least you are talking to more women. You know you will make mistakes, but at least this is the perfect time to make them since they can be replaced.

Keep it up

 

[TOneThousand]

@BPH - I like your breakdown and I'm with you about being more assertive texting to know where the woman is at, etc. Good advice man

@BPH and @holidayad_ - I get where you're both coming from. I've always leaned toward make them chase me, but honestly that hasn't been great results for me for a while. Being non-needy and not desperate, yes of course. Makes sense for me to not wait for them to chase for a while. My existing connections with both girls is definitely a factor in these situations

For sure that me having existing rapport with these girls should help decide how much I chase or don't chase them. Simple sh!t there

@Rainrain - most definitely I take it for what it is and don't usually lose any sleep over this sh!t. It all works itself out in the end man!!

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Yeah you're right I was too cautious and not confident enough both times. The first girl we texted back and forth, I asked her "do you want to get together Sunday" she said "I would but I have a family birthday party". We've texted a little since then but it's gotten quiet. The night she and I were kissing it was just some lightweight making out and me feeling her body. I didn't try for more, your suggestion that I should have at least tried to escalate more is a good point.

My expectation was that she'd start texting me more to get me to ask her to hang out again. Obviously I need to adjust my expectations in those spots

In hindsight yep I definitely should have escalated/tried to nail the movie girl. At the time I was caught up in starting a conversation with two random girls and keeping it going, I didn't think beyond that which was a fu(kup. I can get better at that

I can definitely make a point to get numbers instead of IG, I could have easily done that with that girl

@BaronOfHair - the "good" conversation was about music, concerts, weird people she works with, a weekend trip I went on. As much as I love IBS talk, it didn't come up . It was the first time I met her so a lot of get to know you sh@t. The making out was some kissing and me feeling her body, nothing heavy. I hear you that I need to lead the situation somewhere and not just let it go by. I need to focus on escalating more

@holidayad_ - I struggle with knowing when to let the girl chase and when I need to lead/pursue. This usually results in me being to passive and not pursuing enough. It's something I need to do better with

@BackInTheGame78 - Yep I think you summed it up man. I should definitely have made it happen with the movie girl. The salesman analogy probably hits the nail on the head. There's a theme in all these responses that I'm not escalating the right way and not leading things somewhere. Thanks

So moral of the story, get better at escalating and be more aggressive/confident about it

Always assume your BEST chance to fvck a woman you meet at a bar/club is that night. They are likely far more receptive to it than you think.

The chance for something to happen away from that once alcohol isn't involved and the "thrill" factor is gone declines significantly. In fact, I've never had anything continue with a woman I met that way where I didn't fvck her that night. Have had several continue that I have fvcked that night.

Think of it this way...if you try to fvck her that night and don't succeed, then you likely didn't "ruin" anything because nothing was going to happen if you got her number anyway most likely. You have a far better chance of fvcking a woman at a club/bar that night by going for it versus not going for it, getting the number and essentially trying to start from zero again.

You have to understand there are two different worlds you are in during this situation. The world that exists in the club/bar THAT NIGHT and the world that exists outside of that the next day and every day after. Trying to transition from one to the other is extremely hard without sex being involved.

I was a former house club DJ for several years in many different clubs. I've seen it all and I know very well how it works.

 

[PlatoPacks23]

Always assume your BEST chance to fvck a woman you meet at a bar/club is that night. They are likely far more receptive to it than you think.

The chance for something to happen away from that once alcohol isn't involved and the "thrill" factor is gone declines significantly. In fact, I've never had anything continue with a woman I met that way where I didn't fvck her that night. Have had several continue that I have fvcked that night.

Think of it this way...if you try to fvck her that night and don't succeed, then you likely didn't "ruin" anything because nothing was going to happen if you got her number anyway most likely. You have a far better chance of fvcking a woman at a club/bar that night by going for it versus not going for it, getting the number and essentially trying to start from zero again.

You have to understand there are two different worlds you are in during this situation. The world that exists in the club/bar THAT NIGHT and the world that exists outside of that the next day and every day after. Trying to transition from one to the other is extremely hard without sex being involved.

I was a former house club DJ for several years inany different clubs. I've seen it all and I know very well how it works.

do you have comments or a thread on how this differs for social circle game?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

do you have comments or a thread on how this differs for social circle game?

This was specifically for meeting a woman you don't know at a bar/club that night, not social circle game.

 

[TOneThousand]

@BackInTheGame78 everything you said makes a sh|tload of sense. Thanks. Transitioning between the two worlds isn't easy. Like when you hit it off with the chick one night and the next day she responds to your text with "who's this"

This was specifically for meeting a woman you don't know at a bar/club that night, not social circle game.

Gotcha. In an example where you meet a girl at a bar while you're out with mutual friends, I'd assume that it makes more sense to treat it like a bar/club situation vs a social circle situation. Especially if you're not likely to see her with those friends again soon. Though others may have more experience with those circumstances

 

[Gamisch]

Get used to it. I know I do..

Imo it's actually a testimony that you are getting closer to becoming "that guy"( again perhaps????).

Lately EVERY woman I meet seems to have that "click" with me. Somehow I attract women left and right, BUT as the volume goes up so does the bs that women bring. Gotta be ale to laugh about it tho . The latter is especially easy when women are NOT your main focus anymore either through hard lesson or just because you are smart...

Dealing with women = Dealing with flaky ,fickle emotions, subtle hints ect. Gotta navigate through it while not dgaF about the outcome.

The more you become "that dude" the more women will be pulled towards you like a magnet. Focus on that while applying some of the advises you got here.

 

[TOneThousand]

Get used to it. I know I do..

Imo it's actually a testimony that you are getting closer to becoming "that guy"( again perhaps????).

I think I know what you mean man. I've found ghosting and flakiness to be at ridiculous high levels the past few years. I chalked that up to how many options they have from OLD and the fact that for women ghosting is the new black, like something they're proud of. Even when it would be easier to say no thanks I think they still prefer to ghost, hah. I def know what you're saying though. BS and their dumbas nonsense just comes with the territory. Most definitely you have to laugh about it and remind yourself what a joke their behavior can be

When you mention being "that guy" again, I'm not sure. I've had stretches where I was meeting a lot of women and having good results with many of them, but I've never put all the pieces together. I've fallen into and out of pickup habits for a long time

 

[Gamisch]

I think I know what you mean man. I've found ghosting and flakiness to be at ridiculous high levels the past few years. I chalked that up to how many options they have from OLD and the fact that for women ghosting is the new black, like something they're proud of. Even when it would be easier to say no thanks I think they still prefer to ghost, hah. I def know what you're saying though. BS and their dumbas nonsense just comes with the territory. Most definitely you have to laugh about it and remind yourself what a joke their behavior can be

When you mention being "that guy" again, I'm not sure. I've had stretches where I was meeting a lot of women and having good results with many of them, but I've never put all the pieces together. I've fallen into and out of pickup habits for a long time

Look. To us men Women imo are a chapter are their own. Kinda blasphemous on this site but F it.

To be that guy you gotta find a way to be the ultimate you. Personally I've noticed if I focus on myself ,my health/fitness, focus on that while making money left and right, women are more drawn to me. It takes very little effort , thy basically offer themselves.

Okay. So then you deal with YET another , "new" ,woman. She flakes. Big surprise? No nit really. That's just women. Especially the finer ones.

The point I'm making is you gotta have shyte going on that makes such a flake a minor dent in your day. Plenty of other things to do anyway that will benefit you, whereas even or just spending time with a "flaky woman" can at best serve your d1ck. Which is great sometimes, I know. But tbh in the grand scheme of things that time is wasted...

 

[TOneThousand]

@Gamisch - I get exactly what you're saying. Expect flakes are going to happen, don't give an f when they do, spend time/energy on things that matter, keep improving and the volume of new women will keep going up. I think I need to focus on that and also work on meeting higher quality women (finer in your words), since a lot of the women I get involved with now I'm not significantly interested in. I'm with you and thanks

Also agree that spending time on a flaky chick isn't the best usage of time. Just trying to get some action isn't all that important, esp when you have a lot going on in your life