An interesting trend I've notice with Gen Z males and how this may shape society

BaronOfHair

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That's why communism failed in the Soviet Union
Nah, they went bankrupt and Russia didn't change all that much... To this day, many former appartchiks remain in power. Communists are still firmly at the helm in China and Vietnam. Anyone who's holding their breath for an Apocalypse here in The West, the likes of which will bring about a Red Pill Kingdom Of Heaven on Earth, is wise to have his cemetery plot picked out ahead of time
 

itouchyou

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Great thread

I mentor a couple of guys that are Gen-Zers(in crypto and life) and those guys are further ahead than I ever was at their age

  • One Is 28 years old has been a millionaire for a few years, has traveled all over the world and typically dates hot chicks even though he only is 5'7, but he's got impeccable fashion sense and is a genuinely good guy.
  • The second one Has been making 100K a year for 2 years and wants to up to 150K this year he's only 25 years old, smart kid he's a "Jose" and dates hot girls as well. He's an accountant by day and trades stocks and crypto at night or his off days

These two guys are very successful and focused and even they struggle in the modern dating scene. 10 years ago these guys would have been in LTR's or on their way to marriage but it blows my mind when they tell me stories about flakey chicks, ghosting and just overall women with entitled princes syndrome that they deal with (or refuse to deal with). These guys are RP (or "Game")aware and already further ahead in life than 30/40-year-old guys I know. The media would want you to believe that Gen-Z is lazy, but Gen-Z isn't a monolith.

I think the dollar will crash by the end of this year or the beginning of next year(2025)

Things are about to get hectic, I'm talking bank runs, food shortages, riots, Martial law etc. I know people think I'm crazy but the same people laughed at me when I said that Covid would cause food shortages (2020), and guess what bing bing you got it. People don't realize how bad shyt truly is. with Inflation and the cost of living. Inflation isn't just affecting food, gas and housing but guess what dating as well! The dating market is going to shift in a major way beginning of next year. Gen Alpha will be the generation that will see the balance come back in traditional gender roles. Our generation will see the beginning stages. Things are getting to expensive.
Grant Cardone predicted that rent will be $4,000 on average by 2027. This may sound insane but if the dollar crashes like I think it will, and inflation continues to rise this is not unrelastatic. 31% of Gen-zers live with their parents (20% of Millenial men 25-34 live with their parents). If you think buying a house is expensive now just wait another 3-5 years.

Things are getting more expensive. Gen-Z started a viral movement recently known as "Drizzle Drizzle" aka "Soft Guy movement" on Tik Tok that has women in an uproar and a frenzy. Young men aren't going for the B.S. of having to pay and be traditional when the women are not traditional and feminist. The thing is things are going to get worse before they get better.

If Gen-Z and Millenial women want to be happy they are going to have to act like women or be happy in poly or lesbian relationships cause men ain't falling for the okie doke anymore.
What is the logic behind thinking the dollar will crash? Hyperinflation is 30% month over month. We aren't even at 10% year over year.
 

zekko

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When the young men of a society conclude that the game is rigged against them, society collapses. Poon is the great opiate that keeps young men in the game.
I see this theme repeated a lot here. Okay, so the guys drop out of society, and don't play the game. What do the guys get out of it, other than failure?
 

BaronOfHair

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I see this theme repeated a lot here. Okay, so the guys drop out of society, and don't play the game. What do the guys get out of it, other than failure?
A (false)sense of comfort. Never

-Losing a woman you love

-Being rejected by a broad you'd like to bone

-Getting fired

-Experiencing frustrations and set-backs as you rise up the socioecomic ladder

Can FEEL really good, in the same way someone with crippling social anxiety remaining indoors most of the time keeps that person insulated from all the discomfort. Problem, of course being, one also ends up leading a life of stagnation if he goes this route

Very few proponents of MGTOW are themselves men who've dropped out of society in the fashion they urge their followers to. They're mostly men who've been married for 2 decades or longer, who are living posh lives in suburban America
 

Dash Riprock

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I have a job and hobbies that put me in proximity with a lot of Gen Zs in their teens and late 20s. I've been noticing some very interesting trends with the young men specifically, which is they are very often times quite "red pilled" when it comes to dating/relationships, society and culture, etc.

Relationships/dating- I've noticed that many of them seem to be quite aware of ideas like female hypergamy and how many women today their age are "players". Many of them seem to easily understand that social media and dating apps have completely ruined the dating market, which is something older generations don't grasp at all. I've also noticed that they seem to be much more aware of modern dating struggles, like women chasing after a tiny subset of men while routinely ignoring those that would be interested in having relationships. Interestingly, I've especially noticed that many of them are turned off by the idea of marriage and even family/children. They seem to be aware that many women don't value healthy and stable relationships and often times far too readily reject or "next" men.

College/university- I've also noticed that many Gen Z males are fully aware of the fact that college is now a scam and doesn't mean all that much. I've had a handful of conversations recently with several different guys in this age bracket, and it's quite interesting to see how much more aware they are compared to previous generations. My generation just about EVERYONE went to college to some extent and really didn't question it all that much. However, these recent conversations have revealed to me how different of a mindset they have. One specifically cited how when the government got involved through the affordable education act in the 1980s was when college started becoming a money-making scam, which I've known and talked about for a long time now. Another was mentioning to me how during COVID all of these colleges were charging crazy sums of money, well into the 4 and 5 figures, when it was entirely ONLINE and often asynchronous lol.

Woke nonsense- I've also seen that they regularly reject all of this woke nonsense, particularly the transgender and racial b.s the left is obsessed about. They seem to much more readily recognize the concepts of identity politics and how these other people put themselves into a class of the oppressed and subjugated lol. Meanwhile, there are tons of Millennials males that still buy into this crap, like white-male guilt nonsense and what have you. Millennial females are way more often poisoned by these ideas for sure though.

Work/life balance- I'm noticing that there is a lot of thought put into things like work-life balance, which I didn't really see when I was younger. It seems like pre COVID everyone was on a grind but with no real goal or thought in mind as to where they were going, so it wasn't like they were building wealth or anything. There was a guy from the guy close to 10 years younger than men talking about how he wanted to retire early just so he could workout and play video games all day instead of being stuck in a grind the rest of his life. There have been several other conversations I've had with guys about this idea and it's something you would almost never have seen back in 2010. They seem to be more aware of how companies often underpay and overwork their employees for no real potential for upward growth, even in otherwise normal/solid careers.



I believe some of the trends I've been discussing are starting to take shape and we are somewhere in the early stages of a major cultural pushback.

I believe that some of the issues we are seeing with the dating market specifically though may be here to stay for quite a long time, which I feel will continue to lead to some very bad trends in coming decades. Things like single motherhood and "last call babies" as @SW15 mentions through things like sperm donations or just finding whatever acceptable simp will become the norm. As I and @Solomon have mentioned on here, I believe that stuff like AI GFs and throwing yourself into the metaverse, video games, etc. will be a huge thing not too far from now.

I believe we are going to see colleges/universities begin to severely struggle to stay afloat, which we are already starting to see lately. This will eventually lead to these institutions having to severely downsize in order to remain active. I see a scenario where pure virtual/online learning is the norm and where it is substantially cheaper to attend. I also feel that the importance of a degree is very quickly losing it's relevance and more specific skills and trades, critical thinking, ambition, etc. will be sought after by employers. To add to this, a sizeable minority of them are also aware of AI and how that will significantly alter the labor sector in the coming decades.

As for the woke nonsense, I feel gays and trannies will always feel they are victims. I believe we will still have women with a victim mindset that feel men are oppressing them. The caveat is that these groups of people will NOT reproduce at all, or have insanely low rates of reproduction, and their temperament, a genetic trait, will not continue on.
Somewhat related, I just read an interesting article in the Denver Business Journal. According to a national survey from ResumeTemplates.com, 10% of Gen Z employees and 12% of Gen Y (Millennial) employees are currently on a PIP (Performance Improvement Plan) with their present employer. Those numbers are really high. For Gen X it was 3% and Boomers it was 1%.

I have my thoughts, but what do you think are the reasons for this?
 

MatureDJ

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Somewhat related, I just read an interesting article in the Denver Business Journal. According to a national survey from ResumeTemplates.com, 10% of Gen Z employees and 12% of Gen Y (Millennial) employees are currently on a PIP (Performance Improvement Plan) with their present employer. Those numbers are really high. For Gen X it was 3% and Boomers it was 1%.

I have my thoughts, but what do you think are the reasons for this?
Corporate America wanting even more robotic employees that have the right corporate attitude. :rolleyes:
 

MatureDJ

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Except they didn't conclude that on their own, any more than young women today concluded that they live under a White CIS Capitalistic Patriarchal Social Order that's rigged against birthing people. The former was misled by The Manosphere, while the latter had their minds poisoned by Gender Studies

Yeah, "The System"(Whatrver the hell that means)was built by flawed, fallible humans, and thus it itself is flawed in many respects. The way out of that is learning what it takes to achieve and maintain power and influence over the 80% of our species who's suspectible to it, then modifying those parts of The System which obstruct access to opportunity for one and all
So your "solution" is for men to simply outmog their competitors. :rolleyes:
 

SW15

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10% of Gen Z employees and 12% of Gen Y (Millennial) employees are currently on a PIP (Performance Improvement Plan) with their present employer. Those numbers are really high.
Both Gen Z and Gen Y/Millennial have gotten a raw deal from the USA economy.

The oldest Gen Y/Millennials graduated into the 2007-2009 peak recessionary era and have struggled to ever recover.

Although the oldest Millennials are turning 40 right now, a lot of Millennials are still under 40 and can get laid off without age discrimination protection. Gen Z is still quite young.

The older generations left a poop show for Gen Y/Millennials and Gen Z.
 

BaronOfHair

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So your "solution" is for men to simply outmog their competitors. :rolleyes:
Each of us is a brand, and if we're serious about capturing then maintaining clients, we have to at least APPEAR more desirable than the other options on the market
 

zekko

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Very few proponents of MGTOW are themselves men who've dropped out of society in the fashion they urge their followers to. They're mostly men who've been married for 2 decades or longer, who are living posh lives in suburban America
I just think that you can Go Your Own Way from women without dropping out of society. Women haven't given up seeking success.
 

BaronOfHair

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Somewhat related, I just read an interesting article in the Denver Business Journal. According to a national survey from ResumeTemplates.com, 10% of Gen Z employees and 12% of Gen Y (Millennial) employees are currently on a PIP (Performance Improvement Plan) with their present employer. Those numbers are really high. For Gen X it was 3% and Boomers it was 1%.

I have my thoughts, but what do you think are the reasons for this?
A couple of possible explanations:

-With so many corporations setting up their own versions of these
, it's becoming increasingly tough to NOT end up on probation of some sort, for saying something "Problematic". Being young and Woke not only doesn't protect you from being targetted by such an inquest... It actually more in danger of being labelled a "traitor to the cause", if you show signs of developing a mind of your own


-The folks you mention really are symptomatic of a problem mentioned here https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...thing-better-comes-along.282363/#post-3121867 https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...better-comes-along.282363/page-2#post-3122509 , and really are devoid of any sort of self-possession

The notion that it's "cool" to give in to whatever urge or emotion one is having at the moment has been a bane of Western societies since The Counterculture popularized it in The 1960s. From '16-today, this nation's been enjoying a resurgence everywhere from our universities to our businesses
 

BaronOfHair

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My son is consistent in all the things expressed as a 21 yo Gen Z man. He tells me that guys in his generation are more conservative in many ways and are not drinking the gender bender Kool Aid
Is it that they're "more consevative", or are Woke becoming less prevalent in everyday coversations, in the same way Political Correctness during the 80s and first half of The 90s https://reason.com/2021/12/13/the-second-great-age-of-political-correctness/ fell out of the limelight by the latter half of the decade*?

While I'm no less immune to the charms of the oft-heard refrain "Gen Z will the saviors of Western Civilization as we know it!!!", the raw data https://www.cato.org/blog/nearly-third-gen-z-favors-home-government-surveillance-cameras leaves me wary



*Just one example: This https://www.popmatters.com/male-bashing-on-tv was published (An article which would've been right at home on AVFM in '15)was, in 2003, being published by a gay Leftie writer in a PROGRESSIVE magazine. Something which would've been inconceivable in the late 80s-96 or so. It wouldn't be accurate to say that early 2000s were especially Conservative though, at least not in the classic sense of that word. If anything, in terms of free expression, those days were far more liberal than what we have today
 
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BeExcellent

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My son is conservative along the lines of Reagan conservatisim & Reaganomics. He was raised that way and saw Reaganomics at work in my business.

He is also Catholic. Believes in family and in being a leader and provider in his house, but he is in charge. Because he is a solid leader his wife gives her 2 cents and follows his decisions & his lead. He knows that her sense of security and well being derive from this dynamic.

His 22nd birthday is coming up. His wife asked for my mother's apple pie recipe because its my son's favorite. They share old school Greatest Generation type values.

Conservative like that.
 

BaronOfHair

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My son is conservative along the lines of Reagan conservatisim & Reaganomics
He believes that "government is the problem", yet has no reservations about militarizing the cops https://www.independent.org/PUBLICATIONS/TIR/article.asp?id=1017 , in other words ;)

All levity aside, it wouldn't be surprising to learn that we're at the beginning of a cycle similar to one we went through not that long ago https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/don-draper-really-is-the-man/article1203491/ Quote: "According to James Bassil, Editor-in-Chief of AskMen.com, "In a turbulent 2009, men are seeking the stability of tradition in the masculine qualities that they imagine their fathers and grandfathers to have had. The character of Don Draper brings all these traits together, and in doing so speaks directly to the modern man"

In addition to your son, there does seem to be a portion of the male population who today are turning to the past for guidance
 

GoodMan32

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I have a job and hobbies that put me in proximity with a lot of Gen Zs in their teens and late 20s. I've been noticing some very interesting trends with the young men specifically, which is they are very often times quite "red pilled" when it comes to dating/relationships, society and culture, etc.

Relationships/dating- I've noticed that many of them seem to be quite aware of ideas like female hypergamy and how many women today their age are "players". Many of them seem to easily understand that social media and dating apps have completely ruined the dating market, which is something older generations don't grasp at all. I've also noticed that they seem to be much more aware of modern dating struggles, like women chasing after a tiny subset of men while routinely ignoring those that would be interested in having relationships. Interestingly, I've especially noticed that many of them are turned off by the idea of marriage and even family/children. They seem to be aware that many women don't value healthy and stable relationships and often times far too readily reject or "next" men.

College/university- I've also noticed that many Gen Z males are fully aware of the fact that college is now a scam and doesn't mean all that much. I've had a handful of conversations recently with several different guys in this age bracket, and it's quite interesting to see how much more aware they are compared to previous generations. My generation just about EVERYONE went to college to some extent and really didn't question it all that much. However, these recent conversations have revealed to me how different of a mindset they have. One specifically cited how when the government got involved through the affordable education act in the 1980s was when college started becoming a money-making scam, which I've known and talked about for a long time now. Another was mentioning to me how during COVID all of these colleges were charging crazy sums of money, well into the 4 and 5 figures, when it was entirely ONLINE and often asynchronous lol.

Woke nonsense- I've also seen that they regularly reject all of this woke nonsense, particularly the transgender and racial b.s the left is obsessed about. They seem to much more readily recognize the concepts of identity politics and how these other people put themselves into a class of the oppressed and subjugated lol. Meanwhile, there are tons of Millennials males that still buy into this crap, like white-male guilt nonsense and what have you. Millennial females are way more often poisoned by these ideas for sure though.

Work/life balance- I'm noticing that there is a lot of thought put into things like work-life balance, which I didn't really see when I was younger. It seems like pre COVID everyone was on a grind but with no real goal or thought in mind as to where they were going, so it wasn't like they were building wealth or anything. There was a guy from the guy close to 10 years younger than men talking about how he wanted to retire early just so he could workout and play video games all day instead of being stuck in a grind the rest of his life. There have been several other conversations I've had with guys about this idea and it's something you would almost never have seen back in 2010. They seem to be more aware of how companies often underpay and overwork their employees for no real potential for upward growth, even in otherwise normal/solid careers.



I believe some of the trends I've been discussing are starting to take shape and we are somewhere in the early stages of a major cultural pushback.

I believe that some of the issues we are seeing with the dating market specifically though may be here to stay for quite a long time, which I feel will continue to lead to some very bad trends in coming decades. Things like single motherhood and "last call babies" as @SW15 mentions through things like sperm donations or just finding whatever acceptable simp will become the norm. As I and @Solomon have mentioned on here, I believe that stuff like AI GFs and throwing yourself into the metaverse, video games, etc. will be a huge thing not too far from now.

I believe we are going to see colleges/universities begin to severely struggle to stay afloat, which we are already starting to see lately. This will eventually lead to these institutions having to severely downsize in order to remain active. I see a scenario where pure virtual/online learning is the norm and where it is substantially cheaper to attend. I also feel that the importance of a degree is very quickly losing it's relevance and more specific skills and trades, critical thinking, ambition, etc. will be sought after by employers. To add to this, a sizeable minority of them are also aware of AI and how that will significantly alter the labor sector in the coming decades.

As for the woke nonsense, I feel gays and trannies will always feel they are victims. I believe we will still have women with a victim mindset that feel men are oppressing them. The caveat is that these groups of people will NOT reproduce at all, or have insanely low rates of reproduction, and their temperament, a genetic trait, will not continue on.
I have some points I'd like to address, OP.

  • I'm close in age to you (I'm 33). When I was in my teens/early 20s, dating/hookup sites were somewhat in their infancy (at least compared to today). At the time, I remember thinking "This is perfect for a guy who's too shy/socially inept to talk to girls in person." In the 10-15+ years since then, however, I'm starting to see that dating/hookup apps are doing more harm than good (The keyword is app. When they made the switch from website to app was when the problem really started IMO).

  • I've proposed the idea (on SoSuave, other online platforms, as well as in person) that if every available straight man stopped making moves on broads, we'd see a massive societal shift where broads started coming onto us (Because if every available straight man followed my strategy, no single straight woman would ever get a date or sex again unless they started making moves on us). The audience I share the idea with tends to be 30 and 40-somethings (who mostly laugh off the idea). Hearing what you said about Gen Z gives me hope though. If enough Gen Z men follow my strategy (which, from the sounds of it, more and more Gen Z men are), the results I want (broads coming onto men) might just happen (at least to some degree). 10 years from now, when more and more Gen Zers are in the real world, it will be interesting to see.
 

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Somewhat related, I just read an interesting article in the Denver Business Journal. According to a national survey from ResumeTemplates.com, 10% of Gen Z employees and 12% of Gen Y (Millennial) employees are currently on a PIP (Performance Improvement Plan) with their present employer. Those numbers are really high. For Gen X it was 3% and Boomers it was 1%.

I have my thoughts, but what do you think are the reasons for this?
I'm a millennial (I'm 33). I'd say one big reason for why a lot of Millennial and Gen Z employees are on PIPs is the lack of discipline in school. Compared to my parents' day, kids got away with a lot more in school back when I was growing up. It's no surprise the disrespectful school behavior my peers exhibited 20 years ago has translated into disrespectful workplace behavior.

A lot of young employees at the company I work for act like they make the rules.
 

GoodMan32

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I see this theme repeated a lot here. Okay, so the guys drop out of society, and don't play the game. What do the guys get out of it, other than failure?
As the other poster said, if enough men drop out of society, society collapses.

Dropping out of society entirely (living off the grid, not using currency, not working, etc) is unrealistic. Dropping out of the dating market, on the other hand, is more realistic (and more and more Gen Z men are dropping out of the dating market).

If enough men drop out of the dating market, the market will have to correct itself. That's what they get out of it.

Dropping out of a broken system in large numbers (thus forcing the system to make whatever adaptations to reel you back in) is one way to get the changes you want. As an analogy, think of when large amounts of employees go on strike to bend an employer to their will.
 

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(The keyword is app. When they made the switch from website to app was when the problem really started IMO).
I disagree completely. The era of dating websites was not good either. The switch from websites to apps just accentuated all the problems that existed in the dating website era.

In the latter part of the dating website era (think 2007-2012), most women were getting their inboxes on dating websites flooded by men. This was when women started to get unrealistic expectations.

The big change from the website era to swipe app era is that more women were using apps post 2012. So these problems tended to have a broader effect in the overall dating market.

Gen Z didn't experience what I described in 2007-2012. That was a Millennial experience.

I'm a millennial (I'm 33). I'd say one big reason for why a lot of Millennial and Gen Z employees are on PIPs is the lack of discipline in school. Compared to my parents' day, kids got away with a lot more in school back when I was growing up. It's no surprise the disrespectful school behavior my peers exhibited 20 years ago has translated into disrespectful workplace behavior.

A lot of young employees at the company I work for act like they make the rules.
Discipline in schools has been sorely lacking for a long time. As an early Millennial, I did most of my schooling years in the 1990s. By the 1990s, the school system did not discipline well compared to the 1950s-1970s. The lack of discipline problems in schools in the 1990s and beyond is a factor but it isn't the biggest factor. As a whole, the Millennial and Gen Z generations have gotten a raw deal from the economy at large. That's a much bigger factor that simple disciplinary problems from their school years.
 

GoodMan32

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I disagree completely. The era of dating websites was not good either. The switch from websites to apps just accentuated all the problems that existed in the dating website era.

In the latter part of the dating website era (think 2007-2012), most women were getting their inboxes on dating websites flooded by men. This was when women started to get unrealistic expectations.

The big change from the website era to swipe app era is that more women were using apps post 2012. So these problems tended to have a broader effect in the overall dating market.

Gen Z didn't experience what I described in 2007-2012. That was a Millennial experience.



Discipline in schools has been sorely lacking for a long time. As an early Millennial, I did most of my schooling years in the 1990s. By the 1990s, the school system did not discipline well compared to the 1950s-1970s. The lack of discipline problems in schools in the 1990s and beyond is a factor but it isn't the biggest factor. As a whole, the Millennial and Gen Z generations have gotten a raw deal from the economy at large. That's a much bigger factor that simple disciplinary problems from their school years.
As for the website vs app thing, I can only speak from my own personal experience. I haven't gotten any sort of date or free sex from tech-based methods since 2015 (what little sex/free dates I've had since then have come from non-tech methods). I totally agree with your general premise, however, that even during the website era, the broads had the advantage. All I'm saying is they have much more of an advantage today (Which we appear to be in agreement on. You said the apps have accelerated the problems that already existed)

(And yeah, I know we were into the app era by 2015. Not nearly to the same degree as today though)

Put another way: It wasn't easy for me to succeed through tech-based methods in 2015 and earlier. Post-2015, however, it appears to be impossible.

It's true us Millennials have a raw deal compared to Gen X/Boomers. I still don't think that's any excuse for employees to act like children on the job.
 

zekko

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If enough men drop out of the dating market, the market will have to correct itself. That's what they get out of it.
You don't have to drop out of society to drop out of the dating market though. Besides which, it appears that females will be mostly happy sharing the top 20% of guys, and the top guys will be happy to service the women. It only takes a small number of men to impregnate or please a large number of women.

When guys drop out of society, they stop contributing to it. I've always gotten the impression these guys are not interested in joining the workforce, because there's not sufficient reward in it for them if they can't get women. Which seems pretty wimpified if you ask me, but that's the narrative the manosphere has been putting out.
 
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