jamesfromhouston
Senior Don Juan
Hi DJs,
I've been thinking about this lately:
It's been often said that women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of relationship.
Generally from the standpoint of pure intentions, women seek relationship from men and men seek sex from women. Of course there are exceptions to this. Regardless I found this to be very true in my experience.
But these are at odds with one another because sex does not necessitate a relationship and where possible and acceptable most men will seek sex with multiple attractive women which is beyond the bounds of most conventional relationships that women expect. For women, the relationship they seek tends to revolve around commitment and dedication from the men they seek it from. In most cases, it does not necessitate sex. There are people who are married or together in LTRs that are sexless. And even if sex is involved, it necessitates commitment, sex with them and only them.
Therefore, men and women are fundamentally at odds with one another.
Ideally, we men (who seek sex) would love to find women who seek sex as well (OLD helps with discovering these women ) but these women are quite rare. Most women will try to push for a relationship with you at some point. This is what I've experienced so far, even in different countries and cultures, the rule seems the same.
Men:
The problem I feel (that I have also encountered in dating) lies in communication and expectations. Ideal communication is about transparency and directness. But the problem is that if you're too direct in conveying you seek sex (from date 1), you might trigger ASD or basically come across as being a creep to them. Imagine a guy just saying "I think you are attractive and I want to **** you" at a coffee date. This may work but in most cases will seem like psychopathic behavior to most women. We are taught there is decorum and social etiquette. Most of the literature here on SS has taught us to be more tact and perhaps refined in how we convey our desires to women. I would interpret it not as dishonesty but just be more a gentleman in the approach to what we seek. Yet often our subtle approach may create hope in women that they might have a chance of relationship with us. Of course much of this hope may be self induced by the women, mostly spurred from their interpretations of us and our actions. What happens in the end is women may get hurt or disappointed even though we have not actively misled them to think they had a chance of having a relationship with us. We may even be overt when the relationship talk comes up but some women may not even bring it up until having slept with us many times, months or even years down the line. The missed expectations they experience is the same regardless.
Women:
Yet women have this problem too, if they too overtly convey that they want to tie us down to be in their committed relationship, they will in most cases scare us away and just seem too intense. When I meet women who are like this from the outset, I honestly feel terrified because it just feels like I am being hunted. They are like some silent hunter trying to entrap me in some snare. Most women know this too. Coming across too direct at the outset about what they want is a recipe for disaster (especially with high SMV guys). They are afraid we might cut them off because of this. They even have forums about the tactics and skills they should use to be more tact and refined in their approach, I suppose you can consider them, the female equivalents of SS. That's why women play so many annoying games. So most women today have learnt to be more indirect with what they expect. Again against the concept of direct communication. They may sleep with you. Go along for the ride. But all along they may have been hoping or working to slowly push you into a relationship with them. Of course this can be really annoying to a lot of men. I've had instances where I had FWB relationships that I thought were going well, we had an understanding, only to have to deal with their emotional drama or their talk of where this is all going. Some of these FWBs have made me feel very disappointed because I was so happy with how things were. Sometimes I honestly felt misled when they told me that they had only had sex with me thinking that I will be their BF at some point. In a way, it made everything more transactional and agenda driven.
Players, Scorned Women & Cancel Culture
Girls may even play this mismatch of expectations and communication into a narrative where you misled or played them even though you have never intentionally or actively misled them. Today's modern culture likes to typecast men as being the perpetrators of disappointing modern relationships and dating but I think it's really unjustified.
Is Dating Rigged Because Of Our Differences?
My point is dating is rigged. Men and women are so different. There are a lot of different expectations and intentions coming from both genders (much of it perhaps from culture or even biology). It seems often one thing (sex/relationship) is sought at the opposite end of the other. (Ofcourse if you meet a woman that you want a relationship with who provides a steady stream of sex that's great!) And because of the gender differences and intentional differences, we are often just disappointed, misled or just experience misunderstandings. I don't necessarily see it as anybody's fault, it's just the overall picture that we find ourselves in.
What are your thoughts on this?
I've been thinking about this lately:
It's been often said that women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of relationship.
Generally from the standpoint of pure intentions, women seek relationship from men and men seek sex from women. Of course there are exceptions to this. Regardless I found this to be very true in my experience.
But these are at odds with one another because sex does not necessitate a relationship and where possible and acceptable most men will seek sex with multiple attractive women which is beyond the bounds of most conventional relationships that women expect. For women, the relationship they seek tends to revolve around commitment and dedication from the men they seek it from. In most cases, it does not necessitate sex. There are people who are married or together in LTRs that are sexless. And even if sex is involved, it necessitates commitment, sex with them and only them.
Therefore, men and women are fundamentally at odds with one another.
Ideally, we men (who seek sex) would love to find women who seek sex as well (OLD helps with discovering these women ) but these women are quite rare. Most women will try to push for a relationship with you at some point. This is what I've experienced so far, even in different countries and cultures, the rule seems the same.
Men:
The problem I feel (that I have also encountered in dating) lies in communication and expectations. Ideal communication is about transparency and directness. But the problem is that if you're too direct in conveying you seek sex (from date 1), you might trigger ASD or basically come across as being a creep to them. Imagine a guy just saying "I think you are attractive and I want to **** you" at a coffee date. This may work but in most cases will seem like psychopathic behavior to most women. We are taught there is decorum and social etiquette. Most of the literature here on SS has taught us to be more tact and perhaps refined in how we convey our desires to women. I would interpret it not as dishonesty but just be more a gentleman in the approach to what we seek. Yet often our subtle approach may create hope in women that they might have a chance of relationship with us. Of course much of this hope may be self induced by the women, mostly spurred from their interpretations of us and our actions. What happens in the end is women may get hurt or disappointed even though we have not actively misled them to think they had a chance of having a relationship with us. We may even be overt when the relationship talk comes up but some women may not even bring it up until having slept with us many times, months or even years down the line. The missed expectations they experience is the same regardless.
Women:
Yet women have this problem too, if they too overtly convey that they want to tie us down to be in their committed relationship, they will in most cases scare us away and just seem too intense. When I meet women who are like this from the outset, I honestly feel terrified because it just feels like I am being hunted. They are like some silent hunter trying to entrap me in some snare. Most women know this too. Coming across too direct at the outset about what they want is a recipe for disaster (especially with high SMV guys). They are afraid we might cut them off because of this. They even have forums about the tactics and skills they should use to be more tact and refined in their approach, I suppose you can consider them, the female equivalents of SS. That's why women play so many annoying games. So most women today have learnt to be more indirect with what they expect. Again against the concept of direct communication. They may sleep with you. Go along for the ride. But all along they may have been hoping or working to slowly push you into a relationship with them. Of course this can be really annoying to a lot of men. I've had instances where I had FWB relationships that I thought were going well, we had an understanding, only to have to deal with their emotional drama or their talk of where this is all going. Some of these FWBs have made me feel very disappointed because I was so happy with how things were. Sometimes I honestly felt misled when they told me that they had only had sex with me thinking that I will be their BF at some point. In a way, it made everything more transactional and agenda driven.
Players, Scorned Women & Cancel Culture
Girls may even play this mismatch of expectations and communication into a narrative where you misled or played them even though you have never intentionally or actively misled them. Today's modern culture likes to typecast men as being the perpetrators of disappointing modern relationships and dating but I think it's really unjustified.
Is Dating Rigged Because Of Our Differences?
My point is dating is rigged. Men and women are so different. There are a lot of different expectations and intentions coming from both genders (much of it perhaps from culture or even biology). It seems often one thing (sex/relationship) is sought at the opposite end of the other. (Ofcourse if you meet a woman that you want a relationship with who provides a steady stream of sex that's great!) And because of the gender differences and intentional differences, we are often just disappointed, misled or just experience misunderstandings. I don't necessarily see it as anybody's fault, it's just the overall picture that we find ourselves in.
What are your thoughts on this?
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