Is modern dating better in smaller cities?

[viking22]

I live in London. In theory it should be a paradise because it is full of attractive single unmarried women in their 30s and 40s who earn good money and can therefore invest in their beauty and health and fitness etc.

In practice everyone suffers from the illusion of choice, most people are so busy they rely on dating apps, and in a big city an attractive woman will easily get thousands of likes a day and catching her attention let alone holding it is very difficult. Single women also have networks of girlfriends they brunch with, go for drinks with, and can therefore happily be single while holding out for someone who meets their ridiculously high standards.

And these dating apps are a nightmare because it is like a deck of cards unless you are close to the top of the pack your profile won't even be shown to most women and so once the new user boost or the upgrade boost wears off the matches become more and more sporadic. You can reset your profile but they are cracking down on that and they are also ban-happy so you don't want to get on their bad side.

I have a job that allows me to work mostly remote so was thinking of trying my luck in a smaller city. Of course in these places most women in their 30s and 40s are either married or single mothers. But if the dating pool is a lot smaller it might actually be a good thing. If women know they do not have unlimited choices and by virtue of the smaller dating pool get far fewer matches a week then they are likely to consider each potential match more carefully and make more of an effort. I remember in the old days when online dating was fairly niche although the quality was a bit lower you didn't get ghosting or flaking to the same degree you get on the modern dating apps.

Another factor is that in a smaller city you are less anonymous so that encourages good behaviour and discourages ghosting and generally people are friendlier.

Also in these kind of places people are a bit more old fashioned so still go out to the pub and do more social activities outside work because the work/life balance is better. And people are more relationship oriented because serial dating is less of an option in a smaller dating pool. And when most people you know are in relationships or have families you naturally want that too. Whereas in a big city when all your girlfriends are single serial daters you become that too.
And as my interest these days is more in serial monogamy that might be better for me.

Also I am almost 40 and I am fed up of the high cost of living in a big city. So a slower pace of life with access to more outdoor activities might suit me well and instead of always having to take girls to bars and restaurants I can do something more fun like a hike or a swim or something like that.

Anyone else done anything similar in the 2nd half of life and how did it work out for you? Or any 40 year olds in smaller cities having a good love life?

 

[SW15]

This is a good topic to discuss. I'll go through some quotes.

I live in London. In theory it should be a paradise because it is full of attractive single unmarried women in their 30s and 40s who earn good money and can therefore invest in their beauty and health and fitness etc.

In practice everyone suffers from the illusion of choice, most people are so busy they rely on dating apps, and in a big city an attractive woman will easily get thousands of likes a day and catching her attention let alone holding it is very difficult. Single women also have networks of girlfriends they brunch with, go for drinks with, and can therefore happily be single while holding out for someone who meets their ridiculously high standards.

This isn't specific to London. Everything you described about London would be applicable in the big cities of the United States too.

Too many choices have ruined big city dating. This has gotten so much worse since tech-based dating method became commonplace. From the 1970s - some point in the 2000s, women in big cities were more reliant upon their social circles and meeting men in real life. A woman who regularly went to bars in a big USA city in 2000 (before tech-based dating took off) would have nowhere near the number of choices that a woman has today between her swipe apps and social media platforms.

I have a job that allows me to work mostly remote so was thinking of trying my luck in a smaller city. Of course in these places most women in their 30s and 40s are either married or single mothers. But if the dating pool is a lot smaller it might actually be a good thing. If women know they do not have unlimited choices and by virtue of the smaller dating pool get far fewer matches a week then they are likely to consider each potential match more carefully and make more of an effort. I remember in the old days when online dating was fairly niche although the quality was a bit lower you didn't get ghosting or flaking to the same degree you get on the modern dating apps.

Another factor is that in a smaller city you are less anonymous so that encourages good behaviour and discourages ghosting and generally people are friendlier.
good love life?

How small of a city/metro area are you considering? The biggest problem in smaller areas are TOO FEW choices. For men 25+ and out of school, an area of less than ~200,000 or so will end up having too few choices in a lot of cases.

If you're considering 30+ women on the dating market in a smaller metro area, the vast majority will be single moms. 30+ childless women tend to live in bigger cities.

The concept of less anonymity could help but I don't think it would play out that way in reality because of the shallow dating pools.

Also in these kind of places people are a bit more old fashioned so still go out to the pub and do more social activities outside work because the work/life balance is better. And people are more relationship oriented because serial dating is less of an option in a smaller dating pool. And when most people you know are in relationships or have families you naturally want that too. Whereas in a big city when all your girlfriends are single serial daters you become that too.
And as my interest these days is more in serial monogamy that might be better for me. good love life?

This might help but I don't think it would matter much with the shallow dating pools.

 

[Ricky]

I have been noticing another factor that is troubling that could be in play anywhere: long distance pseudo relationships are on the rise among women.

multiple women in my social circles have been forming relationships with men in other cities and other countries. Some of these mens are simps that are supplying the emotional needs to these women… it is something that is becoming more common.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Meh... overcomplicating it.

Either you are interesting to women or you aren't. Either you know how to communicate that you are interesting to women or you don't. Either you know how to make women excited to meet up with you or you don't.

Moving somewhere in hopes of finding more interested women is the exact wrong thing to do and where the problem stems from to begin with.

Just be more interesting to them and women will find you. What that means for you individually differs for every person and takes time and work and energy and effort to figure out.

Taking the easy way out by trying to move somewhere smaller will only perpetuate the same issues on a smaller scale. Fix the source of the problem.

 

[SW15]

Fix the source of the problem.

Moving does not often solve dating problems.

It can solve dating problems if a man has strong fundamentals but lives in an area with no options. Some towns are small enough where that is true. A move to a bigger city would help that man.

What I just described isn't the majority of relocations.

 

[The Duke]

I grew up in small town America and spent the last 20yrs outside of a large metro area. Most of the girls I have dated lived in the city or suburbs.

The problem with small towns is there is little choice. You might have to settle. If I dated as an adult in a small town like I have in the big city metro I would be labeled a man wh0re. It would be easy to run thru all your options. Lots of those small town girls want to lock you down. Perception is more of an issue. Everyone knows your business.

In the big city you have tons of choice. You don't have to settle. Great if you want lots of women.
If you want the best women you better be a top guy, regardless of where you live.

I do think people in small towns are a lot more down to earth and not as pretentious.

It's great if you can find a girl with small town values in a big city.

I've read stories on here over the years about guys complaining about lack of options in small towns.

It's easier to become a better guy and crack that top 30% and you will have plenty of women in the city. That's what I had to do.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I live in London. In theory it should be a paradise because it is full of attractive single unmarried women in their 30s and 40s who earn good money and can therefore invest in their beauty and health and fitness etc.

In practice everyone suffers from the illusion of choice, most people are so busy they rely on dating apps, and in a big city an attractive woman will easily get thousands of likes a day and catching her attention let alone holding it is very difficult. Single women also have networks of girlfriends they brunch with, go for drinks with, and can therefore happily be single while holding out for someone who meets their ridiculously high standards.

And these dating apps are a nightmare because it is like a deck of cards unless you are close to the top of the pack your profile won't even be shown to most women and so once the new user boost or the upgrade boost wears off the matches become more and more sporadic. You can reset your profile but they are cracking down on that and they are also ban-happy so you don't want to get on their bad side.

I have a job that allows me to work mostly remote so was thinking of trying my luck in a smaller city. Of course in these places most women in their 30s and 40s are either married or single mothers. But if the dating pool is a lot smaller it might actually be a good thing. If women know they do not have unlimited choices and by virtue of the smaller dating pool get far fewer matches a week then they are likely to consider each potential match more carefully and make more of an effort. I remember in the old days when online dating was fairly niche although the quality was a bit lower you didn't get ghosting or flaking to the same degree you get on the modern dating apps.

Another factor is that in a smaller city you are less anonymous so that encourages good behaviour and discourages ghosting and generally people are friendlier.

Also in these kind of places people are a bit more old fashioned so still go out to the pub and do more social activities outside work because the work/life balance is better. And people are more relationship oriented because serial dating is less of an option in a smaller dating pool. And when most people you know are in relationships or have families you naturally want that too. Whereas in a big city when all your girlfriends are single serial daters you become that too.
And as my interest these days is more in serial monogamy that might be better for me.

Also I am almost 40 and I am fed up of the high cost of living in a big city. So a slower pace of life with access to more outdoor activities might suit me well and instead of always having to take girls to bars and restaurants I can do something more fun like a hike or a swim or something like that.

Anyone else done anything similar in the 2nd half of life and how did it work out for you? Or any 40 year olds in smaller cities having a good love life?

Start pursuing women in their early 30s and 20s, for starters, rather than fantasizing about chicks deep into their 40s-quite possibly older

 

[Free_Agent]

I guess it could depend on the small city.

I moved from Ft Lauderdale to a small city in a mountain state with my wife to start a family. After the divorce I found myself in a dating environment with apps ( there was only Match.com and eHarmony back then when I met my ex-wife - no apps ). It was tough but I met women, dated, LTR'd one and spun a few plates. Unfortunately low quality women I'd say 5-7's.

The problem with most smaller cities is the dating scene is lacking or non existent from what I've seen. Things close down early and these places are places to raise families - ie married couples.

I've been in the process of relocating back to Ft Lauderdale, and have been doing well here. I'm fairly successful, in great shape, and dress top. I get IOI's from women.

My issue with this place is I'm up against the wealthiest , most successful men. Guys with jets and yachts. They throw money at these women and everyone know the deal. 30 year old Kristy is boning 55 year old Bob. Bob is a soft and looks like a tool but has the financial world by the ball$. He pays Kristy's Lamborghini Urus payment and she and all her friends party on Bobs yacht on the weekends and in his $20mil apt during the week.

Nonlesless I've landed a HB8/9. 28 years old ( I'm 47 ). I went to a bar solo and just started talking to the group of 8 women. I didn't give a sheet and penetrated their social circle. All the men like me and the girls all have a thing for me. I'm the new guy.

Big cities is where it is at. Sure, your competition is FIERCE. BUT if you have your stuff together and can talk to women you will do fine. These women all tell me most guys are retarded when it comes to dealing with women and charming them. They dont know what the hell they're doing.

Just my field report after a BRUTAL breakup I was handed back in April. I had a HB9, 10 years my junior, that was totally in love with me. I screwed it up.

 

[DreamAgain]

What you are describing is just a natural consequence of the digital world in an unregulated dating market. Just like in other industries, it is very much a winner take all scenario unless there is regulation. In which case, religion, more economic equality, and a limited access to pools of candidates outside of a woman's physical radius location wise were those regulating factors.

All of that is out the window so you are left in a dog eat dog world where the only way to win is to beat out your competition, and just accept that this is how things are.

 

[jhonny9546]

I have been noticing another factor that is troubling that could be in play anywhere: long distance pseudo relationships are on the rise among women.

multiple women in my social circles have been forming relationships with men in other cities and other countries. Some of these mens are simps that are supplying the emotional needs to these women… it is something that is becoming more common.

I can confirm the "emotional tampons" phenomenon.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Or any 40 year olds in smaller cities having a good love life?

 

[SW15]

Ft Lauderdale....I'm up against the wealthiest , most successful men. Guys with jets and yachts. They throw money at these women and everyone know the deal. 30 year old Kristy is boning 55 year old Bob. Bob is a soft and looks like a tool but has the financial world by the ball$. He pays Kristy's Lamborghini Urus payment and she and all her friends party on Bobs yacht on the weekends and in his $20mil apt during the week.

Fort Lauderdale is also in the shadow of a bigger dating market about 30 miles away (Miami). That likely affects the market there.

Broward and Palm Beach Counties are typically older and wealthier the Miami-Dade County. I can imagine that it would be quite common in Broward and Palm Beach for men in their 40s/50s to use money as a means to get much younger women. It is quasi-sugar daddy game if not outright sugar daddy game.

I've always said that looks, money, status, and personality are the components of attraction and seduction (game). Money game is relevant for middle aged + men (35+) in order to attract women. The reasonably successful white collar worker (think $125,000 - $175,000 a year -- unquestionably above average) has fierce competition and might even be challenged in attracting women mostly on money. The wealthiest guys ($400,000+ salary and/or net worths in the multiple millions) can throw money at women like the Kristy and Bob example.

The problem with small towns is there is little choice. You might have to settle. If I dated as an adult in a small town like I have in the big city metro I would be labeled a man wh0re. It would be easy to run thru all your options. Lots of those small town girls want to lock you down. Perception is more of an issue. Everyone knows your business.

What's the population size in an area where this becomes relevant? In other words, what do you think the minimum population needs to be for a prime working age man (25-54) to have sufficient dating choice. I think that number is somewhere around 200,000.

In the big city you have tons of choice. You don't have to settle. Great if you want lots of women.
If you want the best women you better be a top guy, regardless of where you live.

I do think people in small towns are a lot more down to earth and not as pretentious.

It's great if you can find a girl with small town values in a big city.

I've read stories on here over the years about guys complaining about lack of options in small towns.

It's easier to become a better guy and crack that top 30% and you will have plenty of women in the city.

This is good commentary.

The OP is discussing London. Population, the only metro areas in the USA that are near London are New York and Los Angeles.

Metropolitan statistical area - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Have you ever heard of a case of a man going from a metro area of 4-5 million + to a mid-size metro (250,000 - 650,000) and becoming more successful in mating? I haven't heard of it. The only way where it might be possible is if the man has a past social circle in that smaller, but mid-sized metro.

The problem with most smaller cities is the dating scene is lacking or non existent from what I've seen. Things close down early and these places are places to raise families - ie married couples.

Yes, there's truth in this. I can give an example.

I'm in Texas. One mid-sized city/metro area in Texas is Amarillo. Amarillo's city population is 200,000 and some outlying areas might help bring up the population into the mid-200,000s.

When an area has a population in the 200,000s, one might think there's a sufficient population base to date. Amarillo would be a more challenging dating environment because of the people it attracts. Amarillo tends to attract more married and family people. There's not a big scene of 20 something unmarried people in Amarillo. If you're dating 30+ in Amarillo, it's almost always a single mom. The 30+ childless woman doesn't live in Amarillo. Those type of women are most commonly in Dallas, Austin, and Houston within Texas.

People who don't marry off early in Amarillo/the smaller towns near Amarillo tend to migrate to places like Dallas or Houston.

 

[The Duke]

What's the population size in an area where this becomes relevant? In other words, what do you think the minimum population needs to be for a prime working age man (25-54) to have sufficient dating choice. I think that number is somewhere around 200,000.

I'd say thats probably right.

 

[Solomon]

Your environment does affect your dating choices
This can depend on various factors such as your look, your socio-economic status, how your game translates, rep of the larger city etc
Not every guy from Boise Idaho is going to be able to kill it In New York City.

Heck I remember this one guy I knew moved from DC to Minneapolis and he had to readjust his game because how you operate in DC is not going to work in the midwest. He had to adjust his game and tone it down (he would always wear suits on first dates, this is overkill in most small towns unless you're taking a girl to a 5 star restaurant)

As a guy who lives in a "smaller" town we don't have ethnic variety like larger ones but I will say if you're 40+ in shape, make 25% above the average income of men in your city(not for tricking but for living in a nice area, which is huge for logistics), than you're going to do very well. If not you can always have the option to travel, one of my buddies recently had a girl whom he met in Poland last year fly out to see him.

 

[jhonny9546]

Your environment does affect your dating choices..

This is for another topic

 

[Solomon]

I guess it could depend on the small city.

I moved from Ft Lauderdale to a small city in a mountain state with my wife to start a family. After the divorce I found myself in a dating environment with apps ( there was only Match.com and eHarmony back then when I met my ex-wife - no apps ). It was tough but I met women, dated, LTR'd one and spun a few plates. Unfortunately low quality women I'd say 5-7's.

The problem with most smaller cities is the dating scene is lacking or non existent from what I've seen. Things close down early and these places are places to raise families - ie married couples.

I've been in the process of relocating back to Ft Lauderdale, and have been doing well here. I'm fairly successful, in great shape, and dress top. I get IOI's from women.

My issue with this place is I'm up against the wealthiest , most successful men. Guys with jets and yachts. They throw money at these women and everyone know the deal. 30 year old Kristy is boning 55 year old Bob. Bob is a soft and looks like a tool but has the financial world by the ball$. He pays Kristy's Lamborghini Urus payment and she and all her friends party on Bobs yacht on the weekends and in his $20mil apt during the week.

Nonlesless I've landed a HB8/9. 28 years old ( I'm 47 ). I went to a bar solo and just started talking to the group of 8 women. I didn't give a sheet and penetrated their social circle. All the men like me and the girls all have a thing for me. I'm the new guy.

Big cities is where it is at. Sure, your competition is FIERCE. BUT if you have your stuff together and can talk to women you will do fine. These women all tell me most guys are retarded when it comes to dealing with women and charming them. They dont know what the hell they're doing.

Just my field report after a BRUTAL breakup I was handed back in April. I had a HB9, 10 years my junior, that was totally in love with me. I screwed it up.

I live in one of the top 10 cities that's liberal and also top 10 cities for women in America in a year to year basis
The women that I have dated that live in rural times it's like night and day
They tend to be more traditional more catering to their man, while the women in the cities are very feminist and masculine even the pretty ones.

I remember 14 years ago a pretty woman I went on a date with didn't have no fuccing clue what a feminist was, now you meet women that are self-proclaimed feminists.

If I had my choice I would easily get with a small town girl over a city the problem is most small town women are either to far away or I'm not attracted to them. Although I do think visting small towns even for a weekend is fun cause you never know who you could meet

 

[jhonny9546]

If I had my choice I would easily get with a small town girl over a city the problem is most small town women are either to far away or I'm not attracted to them. Although I do think visting small towns even for a weekend is fun cause you never know who you could meet

If you stay in a village that is good.
If you take this women from a village to a city, expect to see a transformation. She will just became like the other women.

So it is still good to discuss about to find good places to live where the city is developed, and it still and be small for the next 20 to 40 years, and you can find a good job or open your business there.

 

[viking22]

There are still some decent sized cities/towns in UK where you get some mature students, young professionals, and foreigners who tend to marry later. And people are more open to a bit of distance as everyone has a car.

Online dating and the apps used to work quite well for me. But I think they've become saturated now in London. Everyone is on them. Even average looking women get bombarded with thousands of likes a day and get hundreds of messages and unless you are top 10% or manage to somehow make an instant connection it is difficult to get anywhere. Probably that dynamic exists to a lesser extent in smaller localities because the volume is lower so girls have a more manageable number of matches and fewer choices and it is also less competitive.

I get my fair share of matches and a good proportion of them are attractive women. But I'm in that uncomfortable purgatory whereby I can just about pass the physical for an attractive woman but I'll be nowhere near the top of her list so I really have to do something special to grab her attention or click with her instantly or just get lucky that when I message her she is online so we can exchange some quickfire messages and build some rapport so she remembers me for next time she is on the app.

It is a shame. Online dating used to work really well for guys who weren't hot enough to consistently pick up hot girls in bars or nightclubs but were more attractive than the average guy. And as there was a residual stigma the beautiful cool and popular men and women didn't bother with them. So you could stand out just by being in good shape reasonably attractive and displaying a bit of wit in your profile and your messages. And even the apps worked quite well in the beginning when they weren't mainstream and the novelty factor meant that girls were a lot more engaged.

 

[SpartanWarrior77]

I live in London. In theory it should be a paradise because it is full of attractive single unmarried women in their 30s and 40s who earn good money and can therefore invest in their beauty and health and fitness etc.

In practice everyone suffers from the illusion of choice, most people are so busy they rely on dating apps, and in a big city an attractive woman will easily get thousands of likes a day and catching her attention let alone holding it is very difficult. Single women also have networks of girlfriends they brunch with, go for drinks with, and can therefore happily be single while holding out for someone who meets their ridiculously high standards.

And these dating apps are a nightmare because it is like a deck of cards unless you are close to the top of the pack your profile won't even be shown to most women and so once the new user boost or the upgrade boost wears off the matches become more and more sporadic. You can reset your profile but they are cracking down on that and they are also ban-happy so you don't want to get on their bad side.

I have a job that allows me to work mostly remote so was thinking of trying my luck in a smaller city. Of course in these places most women in their 30s and 40s are either married or single mothers. But if the dating pool is a lot smaller it might actually be a good thing. If women know they do not have unlimited choices and by virtue of the smaller dating pool get far fewer matches a week then they are likely to consider each potential match more carefully and make more of an effort. I remember in the old days when online dating was fairly niche although the quality was a bit lower you didn't get ghosting or flaking to the same degree you get on the modern dating apps.

Another factor is that in a smaller city you are less anonymous so that encourages good behaviour and discourages ghosting and generally people are friendlier.

Also in these kind of places people are a bit more old fashioned so still go out to the pub and do more social activities outside work because the work/life balance is better. And people are more relationship oriented because serial dating is less of an option in a smaller dating pool. And when most people you know are in relationships or have families you naturally want that too. Whereas in a big city when all your girlfriends are single serial daters you become that too.
And as my interest these days is more in serial monogamy that might be better for me.

Also I am almost 40 and I am fed up of the high cost of living in a big city. So a slower pace of life with access to more outdoor activities might suit me well and instead of always having to take girls to bars and restaurants I can do something more fun like a hike or a swim or something like that.

Anyone else done anything similar in the 2nd half of life and how did it work out for you? Or any 40 year olds in smaller cities having a good love life?

I would just increase your volume for daygame and if you're fit, have good $$$ and most importantly good game then you should be able to find someone. I agree with @SW15 that the problem of too few women will quickly be revealed. I've lived in high, mid and small tier cities and the biggest cities were always always the best for meeting higher quality and more frequently.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Just be more interesting to them and women will find you. What that means for you individually differs for every person and takes time and work and energy and effort to figure out.

Taking the easy way out by trying to move somewhere smaller will only perpetuate the same issues on a smaller scale. Fix the source of the problem.

The last thing OP should do is do both. Can't have nuance here. Black and white is where it's at. OP can only take ONE option, and that's the one involving the most time, energy and effort.