Video on why nightlife is dying

[CornbreadFed]

I especially agree with the covid & OLD parts.

 

[sangheilios]

@CornbreadFed

I've spoken about this on here quite a few times and with @Solomon and @SW15 in particular.

COVID definitely did a lot of these clubs in for sure and I don't think the nightlife scene ever really recovered from it. I've seen tons of posts/reviews about places in my area complaining about this very thing about things have declined and were "not the same" compared to Pre COVID. From what I've seen, a lot of it seems to relate to the atmosphere and that it's much trashier overall. Fights are far more common from what I've heard, which has lead to a higher police presence.

I think the costs of going to these venues is a huge part of this as well. When your budget starts getting tight, the very first thing that people eliminate is luxury type expenses. As was discussed in the video, drinks are incredibly expensive at clubs and bars and can easily add up. Then you have to factor in things like cover charges, parking or paying for a taxi or uber. I'd wager that the average person in a average city is spending close to $100 for all of this, maybe even well past this.

I think the OLD and overall decline in the dating market is a huge part of it as well. At this point, a lot of young men really aren't doing that well with the opposite sex and kind of checked out, though maybe not realizing it. Instead of chasing women at the club, where they will just get rejected, they'd rather stay home and play video games with their friends and smoke weed or have a couple drinks together, which ties in with costs lol. The club environment is honestly not a great place to meet women, despite what many probably believe, and tons of girls just go there to have fun with their friends and have 0 intention of meeting men. They may even have a mindset where they may feel embarrassed to have met their bf at a bar lol.

I also don't really think Gen Z is really all that into the club or nightlife culture like you would have seen with previous generations. A huge part of this is because they grew up with the internet, social media and other forms of communication. Older generations basically had to go out to interact or meet people, so naturally if you are looking for the opposite sex a club or bar is a way to go about it. I actually could see nightlife really struggling because of these cultural changes and because of the other factors I've mentioned above.

I think the club/party scene that will continue to do well though will be vacation areas. For instance, you could go to Vegas where they have night time pool parties with bars, servers, music, etc. You are not going to find something like this in any other place in the country, maybe Miami is an exception.

 

[SW15]

It's a good video. I'll give my initial thoughts first and I'm likely to comment on other posts as this thread goes on.

I think that men of the 2010s-2020s are more aware of the return on effort of visiting nightlife venues more than men of the 1970s-2000s were. For most men, visiting nightlife venues to get dates or get laid isn't worth the effort and the financial costs. In the 1970s-1990s, there might have been a more justifiable return on effort in going out to nightlife venues. I did not turn 21 until 2004 so I don't have firsthand experience with nightlife venues until then. During the 2004-2009 era in nightlife venues, it wasn't not that easy for most men to generate interest from women in nightlife venues. Around then is when high speed internet became more common in households and more men could anonymous compare notes on nightlife visits. Comparing notes on the internet spread the word about a lack of a return on effort faster and made it more widespread. Prior to higher speed internet and smartphone with internet in our pockets, word traveled more slowly. In addition, conditions within nightlife venues have hanged sine the latter part of the 20th Century.

Dating apps have served as a dis-incentivizing factor for women in regards to going to nightlife venues. This is far more true for women than for men. Women can generate far more interest from men by using dating apps and Instagram more than they would from standing inside nightlife venues for 2-3 hours at a time on only 1-2 nights a week. In the 1990s-2000s, a woman might generate interest from 10-20 men in nightlife venues. Now, she can generate interest from 100-200 men in half the time on swipe apps and Instagram.

Both dating apps and nightlife venues are worthwhile efforts for the Top 10-20% of men. Lower tier men don't get much of a return in either venue. If you're a man in the middle of the bell curve on SMV, the best use of time is going to be meeting women through social networks or through some non-bar approaching efforts.

 

[sangheilios]

It's a good video. I'll give my initial thoughts first and I'm likely to comment on other posts as this thread goes on.

I think that men of the 2010s-2020s are more aware of the return on effort of visiting nightlife venues more than men of the 1970s-2000s were. For most men, visiting nightlife venues to get dates or get laid isn't worth the effort and the financial costs. In the 1970s-1990s, there might have been a more justifiable return on effort in going out to nightlife venues. I did not turn 21 until 2004 so I don't have firsthand experience with nightlife venues until then. During the 2004-2009 era in nightlife venues, it wasn't not that easy for most men to generate interest from women in nightlife venues. Around then is when high speed internet became more common in households and more men could anonymous compare notes on nightlife visits. Comparing notes on the internet spread the word about a lack of a return on effort faster and made it more widespread. Prior to higher speed internet and smartphone with internet in our pockets, word traveled more slowly. In addition, conditions within nightlife venues have hanged sine the latter part of the 20th Century.

Dating apps have served as a dis-incentivizing factor for women in regards to going to nightlife venues. This is far more true for women than for men. Women can generate far more interest from men by using dating apps and Instagram more than they would from standing inside nightlife venues for 2-3 hours at a time on only 1-2 nights a week. In the 1990s-2000s, a woman might generate interest from 10-20 men in nightlife venues. Now, she can generate interest from 100-200 men in half the time on swipe apps and Instagram.

Both dating apps and nightlife venues are worthwhile efforts for the Top 10-20% of men. Lower tier men don't get much of a return in either venue. If you're a man in the middle of the bell curve on SMV, the best use of time is going to be meeting women through social networks or through some non-bar approaching efforts.

I'd say nightlife game is much more difficult compared to OLD. You have to physically go out of your way to show up and attend, so there is an actual investment of time, energy and money. You then need to physically initiate some sort of interaction with a woman, who very likely is with there with at least one friend or possibly even multiple friends. This itself can be challenging and thwart your efforts, anyone who has gone out knows what I am talking about. Then there's a huge chance of them just not being interested and you just wasted a good chunk of time scoping out the scene, attempting to open, etc.

I'd also add that nightlife is just not something a lot of guys are into or a place where they would even be comfortable, I'm one of them. There is a particular type of vibe to the atmosphere itself and the types of people that are really into the club scene that simply will or will NOT work for you. It's not even so much about attractiveness, though that's a factor, but just being a part of that crowd and blending in to where it doesn't come across as odd.

I'd say when it comes to trying to meet women, nightlife is a waste of time for the most part. IF you want to go out to have fun with some friends or party, it is still a totally viable place for that of course.

 

[SW15]

I think the costs of going to these venues is a huge part of this as well. When your budget starts getting tight, the very first thing that people eliminate is luxury type expenses. As was discussed in the video, drinks are incredibly expensive at clubs and bars and can easily add up. Then you have to factor in things like cover charges, parking or paying for a taxi or uber. I'd wager that the average person in a average city is spending close to $100 for all of this, maybe even well past this.

This was mentioned in the video. Inflation is a macroeconomic issue more than a mating environment issue. Inflation is the #1 issue right now.

What you're describing is more of a microeconomic reaction. Microeconomics are important and interesting. In a basic introductory level economics course at a university, there's something taught called the substitution principle. What you're describing would be a form of the substitution principle. People are realize that the costs of drinking in nightlife venues are too high and there's not enough of a benefit. As a result, they are seeking a less expensive alternative for entertainment. The less expensive alternative for entertainment is likely sitting at home, drinking alcohol from a grocery store or liquor store, and watching streaming apps.

COVID definitely did a lot of these clubs in for sure and I don't think the nightlife scene ever really recovered from it. I've seen tons of posts/reviews about places in my area complaining about this very thing about things have declined and were "not the same" compared to Pre COVID. From what I've seen, a lot of it seems to relate to the atmosphere and that it's much trashier overall. Fights are far more common from what I've heard, which has lead to a higher police presence.

I think it is a valid point and I would like to explore it some more. Something I saw with my own eyes last weekend was the complete opposite of this but what I saw might not be valid on a broader scale.

Last weekend, I passed by a major commercialized pool party. This pool party had an entrance fee and there was a major celebrity DJ playing a set. I did not go into the pool party but I was able to observe it from a point outside of it. The pool party was very well attended. I saw more males than females at it and it seemed like a lot of the females went to this pool party with males (likely their boyfriends, but a few husbands were likely mixed in). It looked like something that you would have seen in the 2000s-2010s. I would say that the attendees were mainly younger Millennials and older Gen Z's. Very few people there were 35+ (1989 or earlier births).

I also don't really think Gen Z is really all that into the club or nightlife culture like you would have seen with previous generations. A huge part of this is because they grew up with the internet, social media and other forms of communication. Older generations basically had to go out to interact or meet people, so naturally if you are looking for the opposite sex a club or bar is a way to go about it. I actually could see nightlife really struggling because of these cultural changes and because of the other factors I've mentioned above.

I think your point on Generation Z is valid. Older Gen Z's were in elementary school when smartphones started to get popular. Generation Z did all of their junior high, high shool, and college years with cellular phones. In my senior year of high school (2000-2001), almost none of my classmates from my graduating class had a cell phone and I'm considered an early Millennial.

Generation Z has been more accustomed to sitting in their bedrooms with their smartphones and playing on the internet.

When I was in college in the 2001-2005, the earliest seeds of this were planted. I remember that a lot of us were using AOL Instant Messenger to send text-based messages to each other from our dorm rooms and our off campus apartments. This was the precursor to cell phone based text messages. Facebook and MySpace both launched in 2004. YouTube launched in early 2005.

While things were changing for Millennials in their 20s in the 2000s-early 2010s, there was still a need to do real world socialization. Late 1990s/early 2000s born Generation Z members have felt less of a need to do this in their 20s now.

 

[SW15]

I'd say nightlife game is much more difficult compared to OLD. You have to physically go out of your way to show up and attend, so there is an actual investment of time, energy and money.

Both are difficult for the majority of men. There is a perception that using swipe apps is easier than real life approaching. With swipe apps, a man is able to sit at home in casual, comfortable clothing (sometimes a T shirt and underwear) and just swipe and text. That's appealing to a lot of men in the Millennial and Gen Z generations.

You then need to physically initiate some sort of interaction with a woman, who very likely is with there with at least one friend or possibly even multiple friends. This itself can be challenging and thwart your efforts, anyone who has gone out knows what I am talking about.

This is a good point. Almost all women go out with their friends. Every man will need to find a way to isolate the woman they are targeting from their friends. It's one of the fundamental principles of nightlife venue approaching. It's really annoying. Those who prefer non-bar approaching (aka daygame) often mention this as an advantage of non-bar approaching. With most of non-bar approaching, isolation is already built-in. A woman is already alone and isolated from her friends when she's at the grocery store and many other non-bar venues.

there's a huge chance of them just not being interested and you just wasted a good chunk of time scoping out the scene, attempting to open, etc.

This is all true. It was also true 20 years ago before articles were being written about the decline of nightlife.

I'd also add that nightlife is just not something a lot of guys are into or a place where they would even be comfortable, I'm one of them. There is a particular type of vibe to the atmosphere itself and the types of people that are really into the club scene that simply will or will NOT work for you.

This is true. Nightlife venues tend to favor more extroverted personality types.

This was also true 20 years ago before articles were being written about the decline of nightlife.

 

[BaronOfHair]

It's going to take awhile for not just nightlife, but the entire world, to "recover" from COVID. Even many fast food restaurants are closing by 10 now, rather than staying up till 12 or 1

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I was on Valencia St. in SF on a Friday night recently. Absolutely packed. Clubs, bars, cafes & restaurants. Very lively.

 

[SW15]

I was on Valencia St. in SF on a Friday night recently. Absolutely packed. Clubs, bars, cafes & restaurants. Very lively.

This is interesting. San Francisco has a reputation for being a metro area filled with sissified men who would not be inclined to approach women in person. The typical San Francisco male is some variation of either an autistic tech worker guy or some other sissified beta male type who would be more inclined to swipe on apps.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

This is interesting. San Francisco has a reputation for being a metro area filled with sissified men who would not be inclined to approach women in person. The typical San Francisco male is some variation of either an autistic tech worker guy or some other sissified beta male type who would be more inclined to swipe on apps.

Don’t forget. Despite its decay, SF is still a heavily touristed place.

 

[SW15]

Don’t forget. Despite its decay, SF is still a heavily touristed place.

That's amazing to me. I have no desire to go to San Francisco now. I now perceive it as a disgusting place overrun with homeless people pooping in the streets.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

That's amazing to me. I have no desire to go to San Francisco now. I now perceive it as a disgusting place overrun with homeless people pooping in the streets.

Imagine SF as a thumb. If you stay along the edges, say, a half-mile or so from the water, it id fine.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Imagine SF as a thumb. If you stay along the edges, say, a half-mile or so from the water, it id fine.

Have you read Shellenberger's book San Fran-sicko, and if so, what were your thoughts?

 

[BaronOfHair]

This is interesting. San Francisco has a reputation for being a metro area filled with sissified men who would not be inclined to approach women in person

More precisely:

A city filled with men who are satisfied by the mouths and a-ses of other men, and who's appetite for poonany is less pronounced than Hollywood's desire to remake Soul Man

Anytime soon

 

[Plinco]

It's died down in Florida but not completely dead by any stretch. I think the first reason is that people in the west as a whole have gotten older so there's fewer young people; second, the costs have gone up and people are getting squeezed by inflation; third, the smart phone has changed the way people interact.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Because they don't create club bangers like this anymore...

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Have you read Shellenberger's book San Fran-sicko, and if so, what were your thoughts?

no. I might check it out.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Because they don't create club bangers like this anymore...

Add to that: We moderns are far too squeamish and fixated on "emotional safety" to have THIS much fun

When we're out on the town for the evening. Barely any party goers leave the dance floor in body bags these days, but that makes clubbing at lot less fun than it used to be

 

[BaronOfHair]

no. I might check it out.

Here's a sample

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Add to that: We moderns are far too squeamish and fixated on "emotional safety" to have THIS much fun

When we're out on the town for the evening. Barely any party goers leave the dance floor in body bags these days, but that makes clubbing at lot less fun than it used to be

They used to leave in ambulances from being too dehydrated from dancing so much. Now they simply stand around the bar watching.