Seeking advice on pre-date text exchange

[FinallyAlpha]

I arranged an outdoor date for tomorrow with the girl I approached (on Sunday) in the gym:

• me at 12:24: "It looks like the weather is going to be bad tomorrow. Let's go out tomorrow night instead. I hope you can sing."
• her at 12:39: "Rainy days. Yes, let's go for dinner."

My idea was to take her to a karaoke bar. I understand that I didn't make that explicit in my message. She has now suggested dinner.

I have no problem buying this girl dinner. But this is a turn off for me as it is an example of a phenomenon in today's dating world of women seeking to be fed, much like a pet animal. Am I misguided? This is something not worth getting hung up on?

Again, I am happy to sit and eat with this girl tomorrow night, and pick up the cheque.

Advice please:

1. Next move? Pick a restaurant and tell her to meet me there at x o'clock?
2. Towards the end of dinner, suggest back to my place? Or is going to a bar before my place mandatory? I prefer to strike in the restaurant as it is a week night and she will have work the next day.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Too much paranoia and over analyzing. Do whatever you feel the most comfortable and confident because the setting does not mean jack shvt. If the date fails it was because your game was off or she wasn't interested, not because you broke some stupid dumb fvck rule of going to the restaurant on the first date. If she likes you then the date will progress, or you will get a second date.

 

[The Duke]

You don't have a problem with feeding her but you do. Stick to your guns. You are waffling already. If You don't want to buy this chic dinner, then don't. Tell her I will see you at xyz karaoke. We will sing and drink until we sound good if need be.

 

[SmoothSmooth]

No response is the best response most times. Girls often go for and respect the guy that is barely complying/responding.
In this case; I wouldn’t reply and I’d hit her up a week later asking if she’s around for a drink.
You want her to ‘feel’ you have other options that are treating you better than her. Competition anxiety = attraction for women, nothing else. You don’t need to ‘say’ or verbalise it. If you ever need to verbalise it, you’re with the wrong girl

 

[SmoothSmooth]

The best and only response to a **** or value test or non compliance is to withdraw
It’s not to explain or rationalise
It’s not to debate
It’s not to out wit her
It’s to withdraw attention or affection.
Sometimes I will just delete the number and they can see my WhatsApp picture go blank; and the anxiety sets it for them and they message me later with a more compliant frame
Your vibe needs to be that you only get the best of the best, so anything below that just makes you loose interest
Your baseline effort/energy when dealing with chicks should be like 20% (aloof, calm and barely care if something happens or not). When they are being compliant and submissive; it should go up to 25%. When they are being **** testy or treating you like ‘an option’ it should plummet to 5%.
the PUA’s are all wrong. You communicate your worth and value by your low effort/energy (‘seen it all before’ demeanour) and negotiating it, not by your routines lines ‘games’ or how clever your convo is.

the highest value guy in a venue isnt the guy that’s going out ‘dhv’ing and talking to loads of people and lots of fun. PUA’s all wrong and just a bunch of nerds trying to learn to be social. Highest value guy in a venue is the one that looks most comfortable, is enjoying his own company and is barely interested in what’s going/lowkey bored. He might be talking to his one guy friend but relaxed alpha body language (not creepy guy in the corner), same time yawning and barely noticing other women around him. Women pick up on that. Think the vibe of the nightclub owner vs the horny freshmen students

ATTRACTION IS ABOUT WHAT YOU DONT DO. Not what you do-do.
She acts weird? You don’t chase. You don’t change your behaviour.
She acts interested, you don’t get super excited or try hard.
hot girls are around? You don’t try to unnaturally open.
etc

 

[FinallyAlpha]

Yes, I see. I find her cute, I want to smash, but I have this 'principle' in my head that I picked up off the internet about buying them dinner on the first date. Hmm.

 

[Bingo-Player]

The best and only response to a **** or value test or non compliance is to withdraw
It’s not to explain or rationalise
It’s not to debate
It’s not to out wit her
It’s to withdraw attention or affection.
Sometimes I will just delete the number and they can see my WhatsApp picture go blank; and the anxiety sets it for them and they message me later with a more compliant frame
Your vibe needs to be that you only get the best of the best, so anything below that just makes you loose interest
Your baseline effort/energy when dealing with chicks should be like 20% (aloof, calm and barely care if something happens or not). When they are being compliant and submissive; it should go up to 25%. When they are being **** testy or treating you like ‘an option’ it should plummet to 5%.
the PUA’s are all wrong. You communicate your worth and value by your low effort/energy (‘seen it all before’ demeanour) and negotiating it, not by your routines lines ‘games’ or how clever your convo is.

the highest value guy in a venue isnt the guy that’s going out ‘dhv’ing and talking to loads of people and lots of fun. PUA’s all wrong and just a bunch of nerds trying to learn to be social. Highest value guy in a venue is the one that looks most comfortable, is enjoying his own company and is barely interested in what’s going/lowkey bored. He might be talking to his one guy friend but relaxed alpha body language (not creepy guy in the corner), same time yawning and barely noticing other women around him. Women pick up on that. Think the vibe of the nightclub owner vs the horny freshmen students

ATTRACTION IS ABOUT WHAT YOU DONT DO. Not what you do-do.
She acts weird? You don’t chase. You don’t change your behaviour.
She acts interested, you don’t get super excited or try hard.
hot girls are around? You don’t try to unnaturally open.
etc

Good post but you need to be very careful about the part in red this isn't a behaviour or demeanour that can be easily faked and its VERY easy to tell when someone is trying to act " too cool for school "

I have a mate who uses this strategy relentlessly , just sitting in background not approaching anyone and barely uttering a word to anyone

He thinks its bulletproof but the amount of times I have been with girls and one of them has gone " what's wrong with your friend can he talk "

It almost always shatters his frame and he's left a jabbering mess having to qualify himself or risk being ignorant

it will occasionally work but very very rarely

I tend to side with a push / pull technique ....give her a bit then take it away act interested then disinterested

This is like catnip for women

 

[FinallyAlpha]

"I will be saving my appetite for devouring you until the sun comes up. Tomorrow is karaoke night. Let's meet at [X] at [Y] o'clock."

And let the chips fall where they may...

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Gentlemen, seriously?

I know everyone is flexing because, you know, you all have so much abundance snatch is just falling out of your pockets as you walk down the street...

But what you're telling this kid to do will most likely cause him to fall flat on his face.

You guys create your own realities: you think all women are trash because most women who respond to your suggested tactics ARE FUBAR. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Tell her you can't sing on a full stomach and you meant Karaoke, call her a silly goose or something to keep the mood light. If she insists on dinner, find a place near your pad.

But it seems you could stand to build more rapport before the meet.

 

[FinallyAlpha]

this kid

This made me laugh. I'm 33. Tried to display on profile here but it wouldn't update.

"I will be saving my appetite for devouring you until the sun comes up.

I haven't sent it yet. Wanted to see what you all thought first. I kind of like it ngl.

Normal is good, yeah... but... meh

Now I'm leaning towards dinner again....

 

[RickPound]

She gave you a positive response by her complying to an evening meetup. Albeit she said the word dinner, she didn’t say you had to buy. Either way, pick a cheap spot near the karaoke bar to grab some food, or just tell her to eat before and meet straight at the bar.

No need to obsess over these little details. She’s down to meet. Be normal and see it through.

When it gets to that time of night, say “let’s get outta here and go have a nightcap at my place”

 

[CornbreadFed]

Now I'm leaning towards dinner again....

Keep first dates simple and easy, they are supposed to be for vetting not impressing! You don't know this girl, so why are you trying to jestermax and pedestalmax her. I have gotten plenty of pvssy off of dinner dates, any guy that says otherwise is full of shvt or selling snake oil. If dinner goes well, do what @RickPound suggested and go to the karaoke bar afterwards.

 

[FinallyAlpha]

nothing will happen. Its done, you already lost

I can see how I am pedestalising her with this thread. I.e. If I DGAF then the thread wouldn't exist.

My rationale for the thread is to hone game and interrogate an interesting tenet of game: frame; and her pushing for dinner on the first date. I also enjoy these discussions. I usually find them constructive.

However, to say that nothing will happen (i.e. the probability of us every smashing being zero) is manifestly bizarre and sloppy.

 

[The Duke]

I always see it like this... It's my treat, I am asking her if she is interested in accepting. It's a test for compliance, submissiveness , femininity, and interest level. I don't care to compromise, negotiate, or debate a woman. I do that all day long with men in my business.

If she can't play along, she isn't the girl for me. No big deal.

 

[Clockwerk50]

Say “scratch. I know a karaoke place that I enjoy. Let’s go there”

you don’t have to be funny all the time. Also, al these sexual innuendo advice for texts you are getting here is bad advice IMO especially if you haven’t kissed her. Be assertive and have a little bit of social intelligence.

Anyways, outcome independence. Don’t be scared of losing her. If you are you lost the battle before it even started.

 

[SmoothSmooth]

Good post but you need to be very careful about the part in red this isn't a behaviour or demeanour that can be easily faked and its VERY easy to tell when someone is trying to act " too cool for school "

I have a mate who uses this strategy relentlessly , just sitting in background not approaching anyone and barely uttering a word to anyone

He thinks its bulletproof but the amount of times I have been with girls and one of them has gone " what's wrong with your friend can he talk "

It almost always shatters his frame and he's left a jabbering mess having to qualify himself or risk being ignorant

it will occasionally work but very very rarely

I tend to side with a push / pull technique ....give her a bit then take it away act interested then disinterested

This is like catnip for women

You can’t fake it but I’m also from the school of thought that you can’t fake anything, when it comes to hot girls (8/10s and above), they will only go for a guy of equal or higher social value and there is NO way of faking it. Im in a venue with a relaxed, low energy vibe because I already have 5 other girls on my WhatsApp/DM’s that im entertaining, there is nothing the club can offer me that I don’t already have. Im also in shape and good looking, so I know that I stand out and that if a girl sees me and is interested, she will give me a sign

 

[FinallyAlpha]

Stick to your guns.

Live and learn.

Correct and correct, in fairness to you both.

Dinner was more-or-less sh1t. It was inexpensive.

She had just come from the gym and was sad about missing her 100kg squat PR. She was complain-y. She works in a gym, so has to be there before 6am to open it every day.

I fell into her trap, basically. A young, 'attractive' woman looking for some chump to buy her dinner. Then she sits there talking about how she has to be up early for work in the morning, negating any escalation.

At one point she even mentioned that she would consider taking testosterone to compete in a body building contest.

She was boring and hyper masculine.

 

[FinallyAlpha]

Single parent household. Would never let a man lead her. Gross.

No more first date dinners. It's a form of slow torture, unless you randomly get lucky and hit it off with the girl.

 

[The Duke]

Single parent household. Would never let a man lead her. Gross.

No more first date dinners. It's a form of slow torture, unless you randomly get lucky and hit it off with the girl.

It's all a learning experience. You always win if you learn something. Thats what gets you to the next level. Keep tweaking your game. Keep grinding.