Brace yourself gents; the wall for PREGNANCY is beyond 45 now...

[SW15]

I thought the wall referred to attraction/looks, not child-bearing capabilities.

There's overlap between the two.

The quantity and quality of women's eggs starts falling away after thirty and really accelerates after 35. Most 40 year old women can't have kids.

This is true. I know some anecdotes from my personal life about late pregnancies. A friend's wife had her first child at 38 this year. These anecdotes are not statistically significant though.

The typical 40 year old woman isn't going to be able to have kids even if she wants them. A 40 year old woman who has already had her 2 kids generally won't want more.

For every case of these older mothers you hear about there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of women who are trying but failing to have children in their 40s. A lot of them can't conceive and those who do miscarry more often than not.

True.

Lisa Guerrero (now 59 and childless) mentioned a miscarriage she had at 39 when working the sidelines of a Monday Night Football game. This is a celebrity miscarriage example that got media coverage.

Lisa Guerrero reveals she suffered a miscarriage on-air on ‘Monday Night Football’

Lisa Guerrero’s “Monday Night Football” nightmare was somehow much worse than most knew.

nypost.com

 

[SW15]

Realistically, most women have until 35-40 to have their first kid.

For men, we can have kids later in life, but that's dependent on our abilities to attract a much younger partner. The typical 30s/40s man is a pussie beggar who will end up settling for a woman close to his own age, so that affects his timelines for having children. There are other considerations I mentioned earlier in this thread for men and having children at 40+.

 

[VirtuousD]

Because it means your child will illogically be 20 when you are 60. And 20 is FAR from a grownup age..let alone..20 years from now.

20 may not be too stable/grown up but it's a legal adult which you aren't obliged to do **** for. Apart from that yeah i wouldn't want kids at 40 unless i accumulated a substantial amount of wealth to pass down by then to mitigate potentially not living long enough to see them for that long.

 

[BeExcellent]

Fellas, when I'm 55 I'm retiring and moving to Mexico and building me a compound. Its gonna have gardens, grotto's, pools, 50 naked women on the payroll, hot tubs, 50 Shades sex dungeons, tacos, swim up mini bars, and lots of tequila. You won't have to worry about all this SoSuave schitt. I will have my own airport and fly you in. And @corrector you are invited too. You'll want to marry one of those devil girls. ;-)

Isn’t that soon @The Duke? Instead of Tales from the Crypt it will be Tails from the Dungeon, lol.

 

[MatureDJ]

I read an article where a woman (39) dumped her bf after 7 year because he got cancer and she still had a wish for children..

It's OVER for CancerCels.

 

[MatureDJ]

When a 32 year old man loses his job, his highly in-demand 30 year old girlfriend is far more likely to dump.

It's OVER for YoungUnemployedCels.

 

[The Duke]

Isn’t that soon @The Duke? Instead of Tales from the Crypt it will be Tails from the Dungeon, lol.

expect an invite too, you and rocker dude!

 

[LTG71]

These 'geriatric' celebrity mothers are splashed all over the media but the reality is that most 47 year old women can't have kids. The quantity and quality of women's eggs starts falling away after thirty and really accelerates after 35. Most 40 year old women can't have kids.

For every case of these older mothers you hear about there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of women who are trying but failing to have children in their 40s. A lot of them can't conceive and those who do miscarry more often than not.

They don't write about that in Hello magazine or wherever you see these stories about some celebrity having a kid in her 40s and so a lot of 'ordinary' women get a rude awakening when they come to want children and find out it's too late.

Facts. This is the classic lie that society wants to sell to women. Freeze your eggs, get advanced degrees, be a boss b!tch, you don’t need no man. You can cheat biology. Most women are premenopausal by their 40s. Can you try with medical intervention? Sure, if you have a sh!t ton of money to burn. 18 years ago I myself was at a Stanford IVF clinic after my wife could not get pregnant in her 30s. Cost was $35k a pop with zero guarantees. Ironically got pregnant after the initial consultation visit. Sure, celebrities with a LOT of money could try as much as they want. There was also genetic testing we had to do to test for defects in utero. So, yes this is true. A foot long needle to draw amniotic fluid to test to see if your baby was going to have Down Syndrome before they were even born along with other defects, suggested by doctors because of her age.

The age part is another thing. By the time the kid graduates high school you are going to be in your sixties. Should be almost a grandparent by then or winding down in retirement. You should embark on this journey when you are younger and have energy. This is another case where modern society has lost sight of the importance of healthy families if you want to create a thriving community. A bunch of 40 year old single mothers doesn’t sound like a bright future for anyone, but you go girls, drink some more of this Kool-aid.

 

[SW15]

This is the classic lie that society wants to sell to women. Freeze your eggs, get advanced degrees, be a boss b!tch, you don’t need no man. You can cheat biology. Most women are premenopausal by their 40s. Can you try with medical intervention? Sure, if you have a sh!t ton of money to burn. 18 years ago I myself was at a Stanford IVF clinic after my wife could not get pregnant in her 30s. Cost was $35k a pop with zero guarantees.

2 of the 2022-2023 pregnancies in my social circle occurred as a result of fertility treatments, including in-vitro. Fertility treatments are a waste of money in my opinion and end up compounding problems. Even if fertility treatments do result in a baby or babies, that may not keep a relationship together. In fact, even after fertility treatments and babies, there's still a decent chance of a divorce down the road. Considering that, I would think it would be better to save the fertility treatment money for a time when it is needed on attorney's fees in a divorce. If a couple must have kids, I would suggest adoption over fertility treatments. Even adoption has a financial cost.

These 2 pregnancies in my social circle that involved fertility treatments were on women under 35. These 2 women spent their early to mid 30s engaging in fertility treatments and one of them had miscarriages.

Both of these women could have started trying to have children younger than 30-35 and it is possible at least one of them could have avoided in-vitro fertilization (IVF).

Sure, celebrities with a LOT of money could try as much as they want. There we also genetic testing we had to do to test for defects in utero. So, yes this is true. A foot long needle to draw amniotic fluid to test to see if your baby was going to have Down Syndrome before they were even born along with other defects, suggested by doctors because of her age.

Someone has to have an upper level household income or net worth to absorb these costs. Upper middle class is the bare minimum.

The testing effort sounds unpleasant.

The age part is another thing. By the time the kid graduates high school you are going to be in your sixties. Should be almost a grandparent by then or winding down in retirement. You should embark on this journey when you are younger and have energy. This is another case where modern society has lost sight of the importance of healthy families if you want to create a thriving community. A bunch of 40 year old single mothers doesn’t sound like a bright future for anyone, but you go girls, drink some more of this Kool-aid.

When I turned 36, I realized the things you described on the male side of the equation. Because it hadn't happened by that point, it didn't seem like a good point to try to force that outcome after it. I saw a lot of negative aspects about later in life fatherhood.

A bunch of 40 year old single mothers is a part of the mating environment now. Even when women have children earlier in life and without medical assistance, their relationships usually fail with the baby's father (marriage or not) before the first child turns 18.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Fellas, when I'm 55 I'm retiring and moving to Mexico and building me a compound. Its gonna have gardens, grotto's, pools, 50 naked women on the payroll, hot tubs, 50 Shades sex dungeons, tacos, swim up mini bars, and lots of tequila. You won't have to worry about all this SoSuave schitt. I will have my own airport and fly you in. And @corrector you are invited too. You'll want to marry one of those devil girls. ;-)

Im already here. Now I just have to wait a few years.

 

[obelisk]

Great insights SW15. I forget that IVF for older women is not simply about successfully getting pregnant. It's also these medical procedures to check and make sure the baby is healthy in womb and the worry the entire time. That in and of itself has to impart emotional damage to her psyche.

 

[SW15]

I forget that IVF for older women is not simply about successfully getting pregnant. It's also these medical procedures to check and make sure the baby is healthy in womb and the worry the entire time. That in and of itself has to impart emotional damage to her psyche.

If there's emotional damage on her psyche, that's going to impact her interpersonal romantic relationship.

The financial cost of IVF also puts stress on a relationship.

 

[BeExcellent]

As a woman I’m here to tell you the time for babies is youth. Teens & twenties ideally. The percentage of birth defects including Downs Syndrome goes up exponentially as a woman aged no matter who she is because a girl baby is born with all the eggs she will ever have. So a 20 year old gets pregnant with a 20 year old egg; a 40 year old gets pregnant with a 40 year old egg. Twice the age & environmental stress & toxin exposure. Amniocentesis is not always accurate either in determining whether or not there is Downs.

I had my 3 kids in my 30s. Each pregnancy was physically harder on me than the one before, and I was a very fit athlete training for a marathon when I got pregnant with my son (the oldest.) I rebounded quickly and lost the weight (breastfeeding works wonders there) but I never weighed more than 155 pregnant. My usual weight is 120 ish. I can’t imagine how overweight out of shape women do it.

But youth is better. Better physical recovery less chances of birth defects.

The trade off is selfishness and immaturity of youth. A baby is a 24/7/365 responsibility and it’s very stressful and taxing at times. I look around at the self absorbed Tik Toc generation & see few young women who have the mental stamina and emotional stability to be good mothers.

 

[SW15]

As a woman I’m here to tell you the time for babies is youth. Teens & twenties ideally. The percentage of birth defects including Downs Syndrome goes up exponentially as a woman aged no matter who she is because a girl baby is born with all the eggs she will ever have. So a 20 year old gets pregnant with a 20 year old egg; a 40 year old gets pregnant with a 40 year old egg. Twice the age & environmental stress & toxin exposure. Amniocentesis is not always accurate either in determining whether or not there is Downs.

I had my 3 kids in my 30s. Each pregnancy was physically harder on me than the one before, and I was a very fit athlete training for a marathon when I got pregnant with my son (the oldest.) I rebounded quickly and lost the weight (breastfeeding works wonders there) but I never weighed more than 155 pregnant. My usual weight is 120 ish. I can’t imagine how overweight out of shape women do it.

But youth is better. Better physical recovery less chances of birth defects.

It's becoming less common for women to have kids before age 30. If a Millennial generation (1981-1996 births) woman gets a bachelor's degree, she usually doesn't have her first child until after her 30th birthday.

In my bougie local area social circle, my primary social group has all had first their children in their 30s, sometimes even mid-30s. These are women rushing to have their 1-2 babies near the end of their fertile times. I have mentioned a lot of their stories in the thread about my social circle below. As mentioned before, there were 2 IVF pregnancies as well.

Pregnancy Announcements Everywhere! Life When Your Blue Pill Social Circle Starts Having Babies

Yesterday, I was on my Instagram and saw a pregnancy announcement from an acquaintance's wife in my social circle. I don't particularly like her. I find it annoying to be around her the 1-2 times a year I ever randomly see her in person. Right now, there are 3 women from my local area social...

www.sosuave.net

My social circle isn't a representative sample of the entire population, but it is illustrative enough of a common trend in the Millennial generation.

I believe you when you say that each of your pregnancies was more difficult than the one before. Pregnancy is more difficult at 34 than 24.

The points you make about better physical recovery and less chance of birth defects are excellent points.

I have no interest in getting a woman in her mid-30s pregnant right now. First time parenthood at my age would be tough on me and tough on her. It would be a better situation if I were able to get a 25 year old pregnant now, but I am not enthusiastic about first time fatherhood in my early 40s, even with a mid-20s woman.

I look around at the self absorbed Tik Toc generation & see few young women who have the mental stamina and emotional stability to be good mothers.

This is a good observation. The TikTok generation is Gen Z (1997-2012 births). That's the generation after my Millennial generation. I'm not even impressed with Millennials and their ability to parent, so I can't imagine that Gen Z would be any better.

Generation X was the last semi-decent generation produced.

 

[BeExcellent]

I dunno @SW15 I do observe some exceptions. My son is Gen Z as is his gf. She is not at college and she plans to be his wife. She works teaching preschool and will make a good mother. He is a college senior & will graduate & commission as a military officer. They are Catholic and attend church regularly and will marry in the Catholic Church.

That means I might have lots of grand baby BE’s running around in the future. We will see. They want the traditional family life & I think they have a good shot at having it. We’ll see.

Some of the youth are rejecting the woke BS, and there are pockets where it never really took hold.

But ya. 50 year olds having babies? 60s-70s when they graduate HS? Dead before you meet your grandkids? Pass. No way I’d have the time or energy for that now.

If they are wealthy, they just hire an au paire to do the heavy lifting, which means the child will bond more to that person. Like the wet nurses of antiquity that noble families retained. While the parents ignore the children….and then we wonder why the pathos of society.

See original post for Exhibit A.

 

[SW15]

I do observe some exceptions.

Your assessment that they are exceptions is accurate. It's unfortunate that they are exceptions.

My son is Gen Z as is his gf. She is not at college and she plans to be his wife. She works teaching preschool and will make a good mother. He is a college senior & will graduate & commission as a military officer. They are Catholic and attend church regularly and will marry in the Catholic Church.

That means I might have lots of grand baby BE’s running around in the future. We will see. They want the traditional family life & I think they have a good shot at having it. We’ll see.

It's rare to see a young woman who doesn't go to college and does aspire to family life.

With Millennials and Gen Z, there have been two primary female paths...

1. Go to college and follow the careerist/feminist/SJW life script. These are often the women rushing to have babies in their mid to late 30s and many of them were penis carousel riders putting up high notch counts.
2. Don't go to college, work a McJob, get pregnant from some deadbeat guy between 16 and 25, and get on multiple government assistance programs.

A pre-school teacher and a military officer is a throwback to another era kind of couple.

Catholic dogma bans pre-marital sex. A lot of young adults leave Catholicism over this rule. There have been some Catholics (mainly Boomer and Gen X'ers in past decades) who continued to practice Catholicism while ignoring that inconvenient rule. Millennial children raised Catholic in the 1990s/early 2000s tended to just stop practicing Catholicism altogether.

Various Protestant denominations are less strict about the pre-marital sex thing.

Both Protestant denominations and Catholicism have had issues with attendance at services and graying congregations. Millennials and Gen Z have not been known for church attendance.

There have been fewer church weddings in the last 10-20 years.

Those are who practicing some sort of adherent Judeo-Christian religion have a better chance of seeing their marriages last and having traditional family life.

there are pockets where it never really took hold.

Yes, these pockets exist. They are mainly in deeply religious communities. There are also some religious colleges where it's common for marriages before college graduation. Ring by Spring is a thing still there. Those aren't the colleges that @Jesse Pinkman , myself, and some others have discussed a lot on the college sex thread.

Observations about college sex life from someone that went to a party school.

I thought I'd share this as someone who went to a party school and was in a fraternity there as well. Not wanting to give too much about myself but I went to UGA and graduated a few years ago. While Athens has its hot girls, I do feel like the quality got worse every year due to the admission...

www.sosuave.net

 

[BeExcellent]

My point really in pointing all this out @SW15 is that there are still non hedonistic young people. My son & his gf stopped having premarital sex upon joining the Catholic Church. We’ve discussed it very openly and they are both on board with this decision as it elevates the sexual union as reserved for the marital covenant. They remind me of my grandparents in how they view marriage and relationships and I see that as very healthy.

Several of the happiest marriages I know of are Catholic families in the community where my son and his gf attended private Catholic school together as kids. So their values have been influenced by a good upbringing and exposure to a solid community that values family.

They arrived at these decisions themselves as a couple without input from parents. I think it’s a good thing and am supportive of it.

I personally know of 5 other couples who are Gen Z with similar dynamics as my son. Some are already married with young children. He & his gf are not that much of an anomaly in my circles.

 

[MatureDJ]

I had my 3 kids in my 30s. Each pregnancy was physically harder on me than the one before, and I was a very fit athlete training for a marathon when I got pregnant with my son (the oldest.)

Pregnancy is best done with more nutrients than less; marathon training, and the resultant very low-fat physique, is not conducive to it.

 

[BeExcellent]

Pregnancy is best done with more nutrients than less; marathon training, and the resultant very low-fat physique, is not conducive to it.

There is no excuse for being fat, out of shape, fluffy etc. An athlete who is disciplined in eating habits and training is a far better candidate for pregnancy than most. I was dancing salsa/ballroom/country 3-4 times a week, running 40 miles a week give or take, and playing golf regularly. I also walked a mile or two a day through airports while traveling. I took organic prenatal vitamins and ate healthy but whatever I wanted. A typical meal might be caprese salad (fresh tomatoes with mozzarella & fresh basil), followed by steak or fish with vegetables and/or rice, and a dessert a glass of wine. I’d eat a light breakfast or lunch. No junk.

If you are eating enough calories to go with the activity you’ll be fine. I gained close to 40 lbs with that first pregnancy 115 to 152 or so, and immediately lost 25 of that during & after birth. You gain blood volume, amniotic fluid and placenta in addition to the baby. Much of that disappears at the birth, the rest within the first week, and then if you are a nursing mother your body makes milk, which requires a lot of calories to make & then the baby consumes that milk. This creates a caloric deficit and literally uses the rest of the baby weight to maintain. Nursing infants need 500-700 calories a day in breast milk. That helps greatly with post partum metabolism in the mother.

You are best to eat properly. Some women are not paying attention but I have always paid careful attention to proper nutrition throughout my life.

Asserting that a woman in excellent physical health is a poor motherhood candidate is ill informed at best, not very bright at worst.