Why is OLD the last couple years borderline unusable??

[I_have_BDE]

Yeah I heard that E-Harmony doesnt have many people on there site

It's probably crap like all the others now, but since it's expensive and takes more effort I would think it's quality over quantity. Catholic Match use to have some hotties too. Expensive and most were in the major cities a couple hours away.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

Today is the youngest you'll ever be. Seize the day! You have a valid point about limited size pools. Dating in your 30s is more difficult in many ways than dating in your 20s. Dating in your 40s is even worse than your 30s. Single mothers become a big problem after age 30 in dating pools. You need to be excellent in some way to get age gaps of 10+ years once you are 30-35. If a 40 year old man wants to date a 25 year old woman, he typically needs to be rich. A better than average physique + rich is often what works for the 40 year old trying to date a 25 year old. For a 40 year old to get a 10+ year age gap, he's better off trying to do that in person because a lot of women won't see him on the apps because they filter their card stack to men within 5-7 years of their own age. Most men end up dating someone less than 5 years younger than they are, and the typical age gap is 2-3 years if couples meet after about age 23 or so. There are narrower age gaps for those who meet in high school and college.

I agree that a smaller high school is a worse mating environment than a larger one. 50 students per grade level doesn't leave a lot of selection. That's going to be 25 females per grade level if ratios are 50-50, which they often are not. In life, too little choice is bad. However, too much choice is also bad. Big city women using swipe apps end up having too much choice.

A bad high school experience can have longer term effects. There are plenty of men today 30+ in the mating environment who are feeling the effects of a bad high school experience. You don't need to be a top tier poon slayer in high school to be ready for the mating environment in the next stage of life. However, having at least some good experience in high school can serve as a building block for the next phase. One girlfriend for a good portion of at least one year of high school is enough of a building block for the next phase. If someone goes from high school to college or working world with no dates and no sex while in high school, that's not going to make the next phase easy.

The upside is that you managed to get laid in your 3rd year of college as a 21 year old. Imagine going through 4-5 years of college, getting a bachelor's degree, and managing not to have sex for the entirety your time in college. That would be very bad.

There's a great thread on college sex in this forum (see below). The 50th percentile guy at college isn't having much sex, regardless of the ratios at his college. Ratios in colleges have gotten more favorable for men in the last 15 years or so. When I went to college (2001-2005), ratios were closer to 50-50 in most schools.

In the past 10 years, college students have been far more likely to use swipe apps as compared to the likelihood of college students using dating websites in 2001-2005. In 2004, very few college students were using dating websites. Around the time I was in college is when dating websites were becoming de-stigmatized in the general population (mainly people in the working world) but were still rarer in colleges.

College is not a vagina paradise for most college students. First year freshman men are competing for freshman women with the sophomores, juniors, and seniors. The typical sophomore-junior year female doesn't want to fucck a freshman either.

The upside about college campuses is that almost everyone is unmarried and there are almost no single moms of typical undergrad age (18-23). The downside of college campuses is that it doesn't take very long for women on campus to find a boyfriend or get into a top tier guy's rotation in a situationship. Either way, a lot of women are quickly off the market for new penis and won't be open to fielding your approach.

Most college men are most likely to score consistently while on campus if they can find themselves a committed girlfriend or 2 during their time in college. That won't mean they put up big notch count numbers for their college tenures but their frequency of sex will be good if following that path.

Approaching strangers, swiping on apps, and sending random DMs on Instagram are all difficult paths.

I've lived long enough to see the changes. Think about the 1980s-early 2000s. There were Walkmans, Discmans, and even early iPods/MP3 players. Women weren't were headphones/earbuds at the same rate as you've now.

If I were to think about my college gym in 2003, I would estimate that 10-20% of women wore headphones/earbuds to the gym with a personal music playing device. By the early 2010s, my estimate would have been 85-90%, a number that has stayed consistent in the last 10-12 years. Women are obsessed with wearing earbuds at the gym and on outdoor walking/hiking paths.

Male earbud wearing percentages are far lower, both at the gym at outdoors.

Women are actively discouraging approaches in-person by using earbuds/headphones.

1. The shrinking dating pool is something that really worries me. The door is rapidly closing on my chances of falling in love at a relatively young age. If I get to my early 30s and I'm still in the situation I've described in this thread still stands I might as well give up as far as I'm concerned. As far as age gap I'm looking for a woman a few years younger than me, like maybe in the 21-25 range. As it stands now it feels like the prospect of having a meaningful and fulfilling love life is passing me by.

2. Indeed the experience I had in high school has affected me adversely. During that time I really wanted a girlfriend and all the things that come with that but the prospect of achieving those things was so daunting to me that I just didn't try. In high school I believed it was imperative that I lose my virginity before college and that was my goal, but I should have lowered my expectations a bit in hindsight. If as a teenager I had done as little as merely kissed a girl and gone on a couple dates but still not had sex I would have been in a much better situation entering college than what actually came to pass. Looking back there were a few girls I could have gone out with but I either never pursued them or if I "tried" to my attempts were half a$sed. Not having the opportunity to have dated in high school is something I really regret. Had been able to I wouldn't have had as many problems later on. The infuriating thing is a year or two after high school I later found out that there was at least one girl who was interested in me back then but I didn't realize it at the time and when I learned that it was too late.

3. When I was in college I was deathly afraid of the possibility of going thru the entirety of undergrad without having sex, and I fought tooth and nail to ensure that I wouldn't graduate a virgin. I had to start from literally nothing and try to catch up to everybody else. It was a pretty hard slog and I had to approach it with the intensity and precision of a military campaign. I finally lost my virginity at 21 after a few years of hard work. It truly was criminal that I was a virgin for that long, there was absolutely no excuse for it having to turn out like that. There I was, 20 years old, good looking, the bass player of the hottest rock n roll band in my college town, playing shows at the local biker bar almost every weekend and walking around town with my long hair and bell bottom jeans looking like Robert Plant, but yet I was still a virgin. Overall my dating experience in college was pretty mid, mostly consisting of hookups with unremarkable women. I did hook up with hotter girls a couple times but those ended badly. By far the most sex I had in college was in my final year when I had a girlfriend. To this day that's been the only time in my entire life where I've been able to have sex on a regular basis. After not having had any for four years I feel like a virgin again.

4. Indeed approaching in public, sending DMs, and swiping on apps are difficult paths, but at least I have experience using apps and they worked for me in the past. As I said before if it wasn't for tinder I would still be a virgin.

5. Yes, the psyop is real, and it's herding men into the slaughterhouse cattle chute of online dating, as I like to say

 

[BergischerLöwe]

The best alternative is a strong social circle, which often takes years to build and often relies upon factors outside of the individual's control. The men that I have seen use social circle the best are men who live in the same area for their entire K-12 years and returned to that same area as adults. If these men go to college, they typically go to an in-state public university or nearby (within a few hours driving) private college/university. These are men who are very regionally rooted. They can thank their parents for keeping them in the same area for their entire childhoods.

The people who tend to use swipe apps in major cities are rootless adults who have relocated multiple times and never had a social circle. This is true for both men and women. In my city, when I used swipe apps, I rarely ever interacted with someone native to my city. The women who were native to my city had no need to use swipe apps as their social circles were strong enough.

Other options for approaching include co-ed sports leagues and other activity-based gatherings. These are essentially cold approaches, as you are introducing yourself to a stranger in your co-ed sports league or activity-based gathering. It's a little bit easier than random striking up a conversation at a mall, bookstore, or on the street/walking path, but not that much.

If social circle game is the best alternative to cold approach then I'm screwed. I've never had a particularly large social circle and I'm an introvert. I'll never be able to grow my social circle to such an extent that I would be able to meet women from it, especially not at my age.

Sure I could try activity based gatherings, but they're likely to be sausage fests and it's very likely that if there's women in those places they already have boyfriends. Like I said before, even if I met a single woman at one of those things I wouldn't be able to get a date out of it since I have no experience pulling girls from irl. I'd end up making a mistake and embarrassing myself. That's IF I meet a single woman I could date thru one of those things, which seems as likely as it snowing in May. Not impossible, but so rare a chance that I can't count on it happening. I feel like if I met a woman irl and it actually led to me dating her eventually, it would have to be her approaching me and initiating things and not the other way around. Which is also something I absolutely shouldn't hope for since women don't really do that

 

[eli77]

I can honestly say with a straight face that I never paid for any online service. That's not to say that I haven't met girls via social media but that was more for networking and friendship. Whatever guy uses bumble is an idiot but I have heard good things about plenty of fish.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

I can honestly say with a straight face that I never paid for any online service. That's not to say that I haven't met girls via social media but that was more for networking and friendship. Whatever guy uses bumble is an idiot but I have heard good things about plenty of fish.

Plenty of fish is pretty trashy tho

 

[Gamisch]

Most men have options other than the swipe apps. Men that claim to have no other options are lazy and/or fall for the illusion of convenience lie of swipe apps*. I'm 40 years old. I don't need a swipe app to meet women.

Why don't I need a swipe app?

I live in one of the biggest cities/metro areas in the USA. I live in a part of that city where younger, never married women tend to live. I utilize a combination of venues for approaching women. I am mainly a day game guy and have mainly been a day game guy since reading Roosh's "Day Bang" soon after its September 2011 publication. When I read "Day Bang", I was already in my late 20s and 30 was coming soon. I had been doing night game for many years at that point in life.

Think about me in the last 5 years, as a 35+ guy. Most men who are 35-40 years old are mindlessly swiping on apps. They are vagina beggars who are going to end up settling for the most mediocre woman they meet from using a swipe app or sending DMs on Instagram who will tolerate them. I'm not that guy.

I can approach women in the real world wherever I go. Even if I didn't approach women in non-bar venues, I could go to bars multiple nights a week and approach women in bars. I could go to pool parties if I wanted to do that**.



This shows me that your inner game is off as well. My sense is that you don't have healthy lifestyle habits that are crucial parts of being able to game. I do not watch porn, masturbate, I have an exercise routine, and I avoid processed foods as much as possible. If you avoid porn and masturbation, you are going to be so horny and more aggressive in general. This is good. This will give you the motivation to start interactions with women.

In part due to my lifestyle habits, I can walk outdoors on a walking path, see a woman where I have an opportunity to deliver a good opener, open her, and have some sort of conversation with her. The conversation can go nowhere, but I can be a late 30s/early 40s guy opening 22-24 year olds. This has happened. I don't even have a top tier male physique. Most people would say I'm a 6.5-7 in looks. I'm 5'10" so I'm below the magical 6'0" threshold that women in the United States desire.

Too many men are sedating themselves with some combination of porn, masturbation, video games, marijuana, and excessive alcohol consumption.

Tell me why cold approach won't work for you.

Cold approach is not an easy path. A lot of women use earbuds/headphones to deter approaches in the gym and outdoors. Indoor masking ruined indoor retail game for at least 2 years, but indoor retail game started to open up again in the 2nd half of 2022. Indoor retail game has been back for a year now, which is good. The majority of people are in some sort of relationship at any given time so there are times you'll be doing approaches on women with boyfriends and possibly even husbands if you aren't careful and don't do ring checks with a quick hand glance before approaching***. Most women with boyfriends will be disinterested in your approach. If you have social skills, you'll notice the disinterest, the conversation will go nowhere, and you won't even ask her out. You'll never know if she has a boyfriend and that will be annoying. Occasionally, you'll ask out and she'll claim to have a boyfriend. I recommend using a boyfriend destroyer line (Google them) in most of those situations because a lot of times either the boyfriend is fake or the relationship is mediocre-subpar and the woman is willing to monkey branch to you if you show enough value. Delivering a boyfriend destroyer line is a demonstration of value.

Cold approach is very time consuming. Read the @Jesse Pinkman approach thread below for an example of how time consuming it may be. If you're starting a cold approach journey with 0 options right now, you'll probably looking at doing an approach session multiple days a week in order to start arranging some dates. If that's too overwhelming, you could use the Roosh method of one approach per day. In May 2013, former PUA Roosh wrote an article promoting the idea that it was wise for seducers to do at least one daily approach (see below). If you don't want to do dedicated approach sessions, you could do something like a one approach every day tactic.

Jesse Pinkman's approach/field reports thread.

So I thought that since I am going out and approaching so much, why not post a field report thread. Yeah, it is a little over 3 AM and I am posting this but whatever. Hate to post a new thread every time I go out and do approaches so I will just keep bumping this one (until mods make an official...

www.sosuave.net

One Approach A Day

You also say that social circle game won't work for you. Why is that? I have never had a social circle capable of introducing me to women for dates, so I have had to rely on other methods as well. This has mostly been the result of childhood and early adulthood relocations. Even though I've been in my current city for a while, I've never been able to get into the good social circles in my city.

My city is a transplant heavy city. A good portion of the transplants are married couples with families who settle in the suburbs. That won't affect most singles unless you feel like hunting for bored married women, which isn't easy to do.

Because social circles tend to be weaker, people aren't closed off in my city. Stranger approaches are usually at least cordial and there isn't any hostility to outsiders, unlike some other areas of the USA. The rootless nature of a lot of transplanted adults in my city leads to a lot of app-based dating, which puts men in a more difficult position. The better play is to approach strangers and join in on whatever in-person events that you can attend.

The weak social circles do contribute to my city's pretentious reputation. Because a lot of people are meeting strangers, there are no consequences for bad behavior. When there's no attachment, women can be as superficial as they please.

Getting into one of the social circles with my city's natives with strong roots isn't that easy to do. Most transplanted adults to my city won't get into those or they will be on the fringes of them. Some of those people have been my co-workers at various jobs over the years but not people I spent much time with during leisure time periods in my life.
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* The illusion of convenience for swipe apps is easy to follow. It feels a lot easier to sit at home and swipe as compared to showering, get dressed, possibly driving somewhere, and going out into the real world for 1-3 hours and trying to approach people. It can be deflating to go to a walking path in a major city for 2 hours and see 0 viable approach or making a few approaches and get zero numbers/arrange 0 dates.

** - Commercialized pool parties tend to be sausage fests. It's the worst aspects of night game during the day. Also, you're going to want to have a top tier physique to succeed at pool parties with the terrible ratios. See thread below.

Getting Laid as a Result of Going to Pool Parties

After using the Search function here, I realize that there hasn't been a lot of discussion about getting laid as a result of going to pool parties. The lay doesn't have to happen on the same day as the pool party, but at some time after meeting a woman at a pool party. Let me be more specific...

www.sosuave.net

*** -- When I do indoor retail game approaching, I tend to look at women's hands briefly in order to avoid approaching a married woman. This has saved me from doing many approaches over time. I do most of my approaches in areas of my city with a high concentration of unmarried women. However, while my primary mall for approaching is near an area where mostly unmarried women live, there are plenty of married women who visit this mall.

Great post bro!If you are starving and Iet you choose between raw beans and shyte, which one you gonna pick?

Cold approach should be named" approach". How you get in conversations doesn't matter as long as you get em.

You gotta understand how women think..as you said, at a bar a woman mihht be more receptive to approaches. Or at a festival, party, wine taste event , park, beach, swimmingpool, hiking trail, sport event, sport activities ect. You must be creative AND most importantly, you ggotta find ways to actually enjoy it.

If you read OP's posts it makes sense why dating apps do whay they do. Because power corrupts. Men like OP admit that their only lifeline is OLD. So yeah, like a drugsdealer whose the only one selling in town, he can ramp up the prices due to the lack of competition. And because men are addicts, they'll pay to play. Love that phrase. Pay to fecking play.

Let's imagine there is no OLD. For me there is no OLD. Yet there are women EVERYWHERE. Women go to all the places I just mentioned. Ironically its men who struggle the most who stay away from said places. Imagine you have 3 months left to live. Would you stop giving a F and start doing whatever it is that you "dream of"?

The only thing holding you back is you! And probably some dose of eagerness, impatient, and self pity.

There's no excuse not to keep working on yourself. IF and WHEN you do meet one, you'll be the version of yourself. Could be tomorrow, could be 3 months from now..

 

[I_have_BDE]

Plenty of fish is pretty trashy tho

It is trashy the last few years. Now, you're only allowed to message one person a day unless you pay! Useless now.

 

[I_have_BDE]

Great post bro!If you are starving and Iet you choose between raw beans and shyte, which one you gonna pick?

Cold approach should be named" approach". How you get in conversations doesn't matter as long as you get em.

You gotta understand how women think..as you said, at a bar a woman mihht be more receptive to approaches. Or at a festival, party, wine taste event , park, beach, swimmingpool, hiking trail, sport event, sport activities ect. You must be creative AND most importantly, you ggotta find ways to actually enjoy it.

If you read OP's posts it makes sense why dating apps do whay they do. Because power corrupts. Men like OP admit that their only lifeline is OLD. So yeah, like a drugsdealer whose the only one selling in town, he can ramp up the prices due to the lack of competition. And because men are addicts, they'll pay to play. Love that phrase. Pay to fecking play.

Let's imagine there is no OLD. For me there is no OLD. Yet there are women EVERYWHERE. Women go to all the places I just mentioned. Ironically its men who struggle the most who stay away from said places. Imagine you have 3 months left to live. Would you stop giving a F and start doing whatever it is that you "dream of"?

The only thing holding you back is you! And probably some dose of eagerness, impatient, and self pity.

There's no excuse not to keep working on yourself. IF and WHEN you do meet one, you'll be the version of yourself. Could be tomorrow, could be 3 months from now..

Is that why you see fat men for example with hotties and are hitting on women because they don't give two sh*ts what others think and nothing to lose?

 

[SW15]

 

[The Duke]

Excellent video.

 

[Gamisch]

Is that why you see fat men for example with hotties and are hitting on women because they don't give two sh*ts what others think and nothing to lose?

Yes yes.

Its all internal. Perhaps fat man decides to make money rather than working on his body. We only have 24 hours in a day.

Fat man knows how women think, his own value and perhaps has a long azz D and a pockte full of cash.

Fat man has as much ,or as less to lose as fitness man. But if fitness man beliefs he's not enough..then there will be zero women in his life.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Newsflash: Chad is cleaning up on Swipe Apps

 

[Gamisch]

Excellent video.

Yeah so: more men than women. That's already a fundamental problem. Men are desperate and swiping right everything because that wanna know who have him that one blurred like (a hb3 monster whale)

I didn't know it was this bad. I always had some matches on OLD ,just never the sane hb8,5.living close by that I want. But men getting zero matches and having less than 1% chance...DAMN

 

[I_have_BDE]

Yes yes.

Its all internal. Perhaps fat man decides to make money rather than working on his body. We only have 24 hours in a day.

Fat man knows how women think, his own value and perhaps has a long azz D and a pockte full of cash.

Fat man has as much ,or as less to lose as fitness man. But if fitness man beliefs he's not enough..then there will be zero women in his life.

Reminds me of an episode of Inside Edition a year or two ago about NYC catcalling. Amazing how often it's done. One of the guys was a chubby construction worker. Kinda like Kevin James, but not as obese. Guy was hitting on all sorts of women and had a big smile on his face, but didn't come off as a creep and was having fun doing it. I mean by creep sounding dull, no personality, no smile, like Aspergers.

 

[Gamisch]

Reminds me of an episode of Inside Edition a year or two ago about NYC catcalling. Amazing how often it's done. One of the guys was a chubby construction worker. Kinda like Kevin James, but not as obese. Guy was hitting on all sorts of women and had a big smile on his face, but didn't come off as a creep and was having fun doing it. I mean by creep sounding dull, no personality, no smile, like Aspergers.

Reminds me of an episode of Inside Edition a year or two ago about NYC catcalling. Amazing how often it's done. One of the guys was a chubby construction worker. Kinda like Kevin James, but not as obese. Guy was hitting on all sorts of women and had a big smile on his face, but didn't come off as a creep and was having fun doing it. I mean by creep sounding dull, no personality, no smile, like Aspergers.

Big part, perhaps biggest part of seduction is social skills.

If you have social skills there will,or might always be a woman whose feeling you. Women are by default more social than us guys.

Another thing is that an approach attempt could be disguised as "simply" being social. As I said, women will automatically respond the same. Women love to talk about themselves. How often had we approached a woman at a club like environment, only to learn AFTER introducing herself" in detail" , that she has a bf?

Best example is when a person goes in to kiss a woman on the cheek(overhere 3 kisses) ,or goes in for a (small) hug.

They'll simply "accept" it. I cant recall ever seeing a woman at an introduction declining said hug or kiss on the cheek, even though it's physical contact. A hug/kiss on the cheek is like the male equivalent of a fist bump or a "one shoulder bro hug".

So being social isn't even physical...yet every woman will respond to it.

 

[Gamisch]

Big part, perhaps biggest part of seduction is social skills.

If you have social skills there will,or might always be a woman whose feeling you. Women are by default more social than us guys.

Another thing is that an approach attempt could be disguised as "simply" being social. As I said, women will automatically respond the same. Women love to talk about themselves. How often had we approached a woman at a club like environment, only to learn AFTER introducing herself" in detail" , that she has a bf?

Best example is when a person goes in to kiss a woman on the cheek(overhere 3 kisses) ,or goes in for a (small) hug.

They'll simply "accept" it. I cant recall ever seeing a woman at an introduction declining said hug or kiss on the cheek, even though it's physical contact. A hug/kiss on the cheek is like the male equivalent of a fist bump or a "one shoulder bro hug".

So being social isn't even physical...yet every woman will respond to it.

One example of this that yall will definitely understand:

There's this big event,( long distance hiking for charity) going on. I am listening to the radio while working and the reporter interviews people who're participating. He asks a woman how she doing blabla.

She says she was with her father but he got an injury from hiking, so she continued alone. Then she said the following;

" I actually dont mind walking alone because its a different experience. Everybody is so friendly , people start talking to me and ofcourse the soldiers who're also participating are really friendly "

She sounded hot, if that's even possible...but notice how she is aware that her father is like a human shield that "normalizes " how people act . Remove him and SUDDENLY everyone is even more "social " ,friendly and willing to help ,talk or just say hi(ofcourse there's the "lone girl you need help?syndrome)

This is why so many men get jelous when their gf has a "girls night out" or even whenshe tells him that "the bus driveris always so friendly"( while the same bus driver completly ignores him haha.) Because he knows she'll be a TOTALLY different person than when she is with him..also ,ofcourse men who'd normally stay away will now be all over her "acting social". Moral of my two post is that if you are a well socialized man, you already have one foot in the door with almost every woman.

 

[I_have_BDE]

Excellent video.

Except should be a pre and post covid. Old wasn't great before lets say fall of 2020, but up until then it wasn't terrible. Saw more cute girls on it. Reply, match rates of close to 15 percent I estimate based on all the apps combined I was using and i only messaged cute girls, not uggs.

Fast foward to the last 3 years and everything is Paywall now in addition to tons less attractive women than there once was.

Add in pay walls, hardly any hot women it makes sense why people are reporting low reply rates. If only 5 percent of the women are hot under 40 on the old sites what do you expect?

If you have 200 men swarming 10 hot women, and only 7 of them are even serious about using the old site what do you expect? Doesn't take a pua artist or youtube videos to explain it whe. Numbers are simply against you. You're not doing anything wrong.

 

[SW15]

Newsflash: Chad is cleaning up on Swipe Apps

That was mentioned in that video.

 

[eli77]

Plenty of fish is pretty trashy tho

Compared to what lol

 

[I_have_BDE]

I havent been on a dating site in 10 years but I wanna add that it seems like these dating site companies are putting up fake profiles and using men to get to pay more money from what you all have said. I think a wise person would create a free dating site right now considering that the Match group bought all the free ones up and charges now. I see a demand for a fully free dating site. Maybe we at SoSuave should create OUR own dating site with our own rules on it. Change the game instead of the game changing you!

Yea, that was part of the fcc complaint was fake profiles. Former employees even have admitted to fake profiles. Thats why when you see hb9s the profiles look odd, sometimes fakish.

Match was also known to make old profiles inactive show like they're active with the green dot.

Facebook dating was great the first year it was out. Hot women and fairly easy to match and get numbers and replies! Just like all the other old sites now its a lot of fatties and ugly women. Pretty much they all suck now.