The elephant in the room that apparently no one sees

Fortune_favors_the_bold

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I'm talking about past traumas wheter we talk about family, peer group, first interactions with girls and early dating.

We often talk about the well known phenomenon of daddy issues where young girls neglected from their fathers develop a crave for attention from men that pushes them into any kind of behaviour that grant them as much as we are aware about how the lack of a decent father figure strongly damange the psychological and emotional growth of young men.

Despite the topic is far from new, we often fail to realize how otherwise decent families apparently, deliver strong blows to the chance of a sane growth to a young man.

Anxious moms and too strict fathers that boss a kid around or use him as an emotional punchbag are an example of that.
There was an experiment made of very young kids who came from distressed families that were either neglected or exposed to strefful environment...the result was that sane kids positively reacted to new toys and next tasks while the damaged one ignored them to focus on the observer of the experiment trying to figure out if they were angry or problematic.

Does this ring a bell? wanna talk about school performances or extra curricular activities?

Then as @SW15 reminded us in other threads there is the damage coming from relocations in early age that basically reset your peer group and social circle with all the issues that come with it in terms of acceptance, status or bullying.

Then it comes the sensitive part, girls.

Did they made fun of you at school cause you were fat? did they just ignored you while worshipping young chad and making sure you had it clear in your head that you werent enough? Did stacy mocked you when you invited to dance and bragged about it with her friends?

Did you enjoyed a non stop series of friendzoning after investing money and time...did you experience the one date, no sex, no second pattern for months?

Well you may be a succesful individual, you finally got your body in top shape as much as your finances yet all those experiences are there with you...they are part of your operative system at a deeper root than whater update you can willingly get later.

I'm not saying to make fun or laught at anyone here, I come from a very emotionally distant family, basically could never count on them regardless my needs.
All they cared about were themselves plus my mother that granted me the amazing gift of kicking out my dad (weak beta) and replace him with a belligerant angry men obsessessed about being the undisputed leader in the house...had to wait till I became bigger and stronger than him to finally find peace.
What a young man can get after observing his own mother dumping his own father as trash and replace him with an other...it's not even about her not giving an F about him, its her not giving an F about the kid either.

Also had conflicting relations with thos cvunts of my teachers, mostly leftist middle aged women...I can easily tell you that even now I feel a strong sense of disgust anytime I face a woman of that age groups with their lipstick, fake nails and attitude even if they are lawyers working for me or nice waitresses.

I'm also only partially able to pair bond with girls regardless how cute, lovely or warm they are to me, I often have to pretend affection cause I understand what is the fair and appropriate behaviour yet I dont feel the emotions I should, I find myself distant.
Anytime my gf leaves my home I often trash the sweets she bought me cause they dont fit my macros, I wash the towels we used cause they smell like pvssy juice and swet.
If she was to dump me, I would say ok and put down the phone with no heart beat or emotion involved...happened before exactly like that.

Now going back to those incels that apprently became the enemy of the state in the modern world, are we sure it's all their fault? are we sure that they should just work on their "confidence"?

In my life I never met a well adjusted productive man which remained such and who didnt come from a sane backround.
 

BadBoy89

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Great post OP.

Alot of men’s problems with women comes from the man’s family background, his genetics, and way society treats him growing up.
It’s as though society destroys him for having any sexual feelings about girls when young, destroys him for not being genetically blessed when young, and then destroys him for not being able to have success with women when older.

And then you go on these PUA sites ”To have success with girls, don’t be bitter. Be a lover of a woman.”

Come on.
 

RazorRambo24

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It's a very tough topic honestly because on one hand it can really speak volumes on why someone is the way they are, but on the other hand I've learned that theres a major problem with identifying too much with the idea that "I have traumas, " as it falls into a victim mentality and is basically like putting up a programmed belief in your life that X,Y,Z is not possible because <this is what i been through>. The problem is it becomes a scapegoat for any failure, making you think that you're doomed to your circumstances, rather than that failures are a natural part of the process.

I have had quite a few complex traumas that I have spoke about openly here.. but I think more than becoming aware of them, which might have been crucial to my development, It was important to just move forward --moving forward and onto the newer experiences and learning not to be too caught up in what i believe or what my traumas caused me to be like in the past was a crucial part of those parts of me healing themselves and not having that "trauma burden" anymore.

I think your post is important however because the people who truly identify with having real serious traumas might not want to jump into dating without resolving them first because they might just suffer more/cause more problems or be susceptible to attracting narcissist's/bpd and other people as they might settle for bad behaviors and abuse just to be able to receive some of the other things they have been missing such as attention, love, romance, etc.
 

BillyPilgrim

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You can mitigate, but not eliminate, a lot of these issues by embracing your spirituality and finding a sense of purpose, and carefully screening the women you pursue. Developing the habit of thinking positively and catching yourself going into negative though patterns also helps (but is not a panacea for most guys imo).
 

CornbreadFed

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Great post OP.

Alot of men’s problems with women comes from the man’s family background, his genetics, and way society treats him growing up.
It’s as though society destroys him for having any sexual feelings about girls when young, destroys him for not being genetically blessed when young, and then destroys him for not being able to have success with women when older.

And then you go on these PUA sites ”To have success with girls, don’t be bitter. Be a lover of a woman.”

Come on.
yeah my confidence was permanently damaged from growing up and college. I could be the richest/hottest guy in the world but I will still be handicapped by this.
 

Ricky

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I think alot of us have been through some **** but we can use it as the fire that fuels us.

We have to believe in ourselves and our ability and worthiness before anyone else will.
 

SW15

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I'm talking about past traumas wheter we talk about family, peer group, first interactions with girls and early dating.

Then as @SW15 reminded us in other threads there is the damage coming from relocations in early age that basically reset your peer group and social circle with all the issues that come with it in terms of acceptance, status or bullying.

In my life I never met a well adjusted productive man which remained such and who didnt come from a sane backround.
This is a good topic to discuss.

There are childhood traumas that can affect one's dating life. Childhood trauma inducing events can include, but are not limited to....

-Parental divorce/a subpar parental marriage/single parenthood
-Childhood bullying, which often results from other issues listed below
-Childhood relocations
-Childhood poverty
-Shortness
-One of the youngest in the grade level
-Attending an all-male high school
-Poor high school dating experiences, which are related to a lot of the above factors

Psychotherapy can help with addressing some of these issues, but is limited in what it can do to improve dating outcomes. Psychotherapy won't typically help in terms of initiating successful in-person approaches for most people. It's possible that it can help someone with severe social anxiety make an approach, but that won't guarantee those approaches lead to dates/sex. Psychotherapy also doesn't help with getting first dates off of swipe apps or in the social media DMs.
 

Barrister

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Everyone you see, male and female, is who they are based upon their genetics and their environment. Generally, the more stressors someone has at a young age, regardless of what they are, the more mental deficiencies develop that make these individuals have difficulty relating to other people.

Looking back, I was blessed with a pretty good childhood, but my parents stressed me to be accepting of others and get along, which on the surface sounds fine. However, as a young kid and even into my early 20s I was very blue pilled and had "nice guy syndrome" due to that upbringing. And I was very conscience of the fact that I was generally not seen as a leader - probably more than I should have. I changed that, not easily, about myself over the course of 10 years or so. And this place played a part especially when it came to women.

People can certainly change if they want and conquer these childhood shortcomings in their upbringing, but I have no doubt that the effects live on into your adult life to some degree no matter what you do. I am sure on some level, I still harbor some type of insecurity from that feeling I had growing up.
 

LTG71

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This is a good discussion. Our genetics and environment when we are young have a huge impact on the future. Some find a way to work through the challenges while some are stunned for life. Think of all the men that are in prisons. What life conditions caused them to end up how they did? Do you think they were all born bad? I think not. Something went horribly wrong during their childhoods which formed them into broken people.

Not everyone goes this extreme but you get my point. Conditions skew the outcome. Not to promote a victim mentality but there is damage done at times when kids don’t have the tools or knowledge to know what is going on Or what to do. Not until later do we realize that we were effected by what we experienced. My parents always pushed me to do a good job but sometimes that came across as “not ever being good enough”. As an adult, sometimes that notion sneaks into situations without me realizing until I take a step back and ponder. That becomes background music in my head which sometimes fuels me to excel but also sometimes is self defeating.

You often hear of people in bad relationships having a child to try to improve their relationship. This is a foolish attempt because raising a child is stressful and will challenge your relationship even further. Same thing for dating. The two people need to be mentally healthy on their own before they try to find a partner or else there is going to be codependency and chaos.
 

BackInTheGame78

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Everyone has certain issues and struggles with things in their life. Some are more apt to cause issues when dealing with women or prevent them from getting women.

Even the dudes who people look at and think have all their sh!t together and live a perfect life have their demons to deal with.

Some people just do a better job of hiding them than others.
 

BillyPilgrim

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We can only live now. We cant live in the past. If you are human you are not good and your parents sucked. To verying degrees we all got to go over it.
Take up the plow and dont look back.
The past can only be applied now.

Keep this in mind and it will cut through just about any thoughts our minds feed us from past struggles
I think with a lot of guys their pasts shape them to degrees they may not be aware of, it's best to be aware of it, and then you can best move on.
 

BeExcellent

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This is a great thing to discuss, OP, and it’s something that must be looked at if we as individuals are going to grow in our own self awareness and actualization. As an individual we must seek to understand why we are who we are, what things shaped us.

In my family my father made no bones about the fact that he wanted BOYS. But I am the oldest of 4 girls (God has a sense of humor). There was an air of disappointment in my dad about that. My mother was emotionally cold, and that was a thing too. I grew up pretty, but taught that pretty was a liability rather than an asset. I was taught essentially to fear sexuality because of my mother’s issues. She saw sex as a chore necessary for having children and was both frigid and prude….I was not at all surprised my father had affairs and eventually left her.

She never dated or had sex ever again. She was austere and never kept pets either. She never babysat her grandchildren. There was nothing warm or nuturing in her. She was strict, rigid and severe.

I’ve spent time growing past that, but it did present hurdles when I was very young.

As kids people don’t have the tools to unpack the shortcomings of the adults around them. They feel things that are unpleasant but can’t understand the why. This warps the child. Every parent messes up their kid in big or small ways. Parents are imperfect to some degree or other, and this affects the kids.

While taking a victim mentality is not good, I think an objective look at the “why” can be very helpful in understanding one’s behavior & tendencies & how this colors interactions with other people.

Seeking that self awareness is better than never dealing with it. Once it’s examined and understood it can be let go.

That has been a freeing process for me.
 

Divorced w 3

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Thank you for bringing the issues of raising children the right way to the surface. This one hit deep.
 

SW15

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Looking back, I was blessed with a pretty good childhood, but my parents stressed me to be accepting of others and get along, which on the surface sounds fine. However, as a young kid and even into my early 20s I was very blue pilled and had "nice guy syndrome" due to that upbringing.
Like me, you are a Millennial. You likely have parents that were Boomers. It seems like your parents stayed together. I think your parents instilled getting along with others and "nice guy syndrome" in you because back when the Boomers were young, being a "nice guy" was a decent position in the sexual marketplace. Women would still have sex with "nice guys" and often have extended relationships with them. By the time the early Millennials reached the sexual marketplace around 1998-2003, that was no longer true.
 

manfrombelow

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From my own experience, I can confirm that most (if not all) of my past problems in dealing with women and society came from the fact that I lacked a strong healthy father figure, and was raised by a dominant mother that didn't really know what she was doing (but to this day she still lives in an illusion that she did a great job at it).
 

The Duke

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I come from a very good family with loving/caring parents, zero dysfunction, always worked their problems out in a productive manner. As a result, its created a mismatch for the majority of people I might date. I haven't met one that I felt had better relationship skills.

I realized after I got divorced from the girl I dated in high school, that there was a lot of dysfunction in the world but I wasn't sure how to deal with it. It was all foreign to me. I was raised to work your problems out, have faith, and stick together. That not how the real world works. Its nothing like the Brady Bunch. I'm accustomed to sitting down and talking something out, and most people struggle to do that. So in a long term relationship when I don't have a capable partner as far as problem solving skills, I'm not afraid to cut ties if they can't meet my expectations for appropriate behavior.

I also moved around every few years growing up due to my dads job. He was always moving up the ladder in charge of a larger city and making more money. As a result you learn to be independent, and get really good at picking up and moving on. You have no choice. People come and go, and thats part of it. As traumatic as it is to leave friends behind you learn that its ok, but its really not. This also helped me to see its fine to cut ties and go on.

My dads job also helped teach me how shady people are, how the media manipulates things, and doesn't tell the truth. Lots of folks using each other for political/power gains. My dad's name was always in the newspaper. I had a school teacher or two that were either jealous or didn't like my dad that took it out on me as a 14yo kid. Lots of people trying to be your friend just because of who my dad was. Truth of the matter I never fit in with the popular/rich people although I kind of was one, I didn't care for their fakeness and how they used each other. Fancy restaurants, cars, and houses never meant schitt to me. Best to live humble. I felt most comfortable with the blue collar kids because they were real and didn't use you.

My family also pushed me to do better, strive for more, work hard, build and grow. Its great for accumulating wealth and assets, but their is a part of me that wished I was more content and more focused on what really matters. Whatever I set my mind to, its 110%. Its all or nothing. Women, Hobbies, Work, etc. Mediocre is never good enough. I can't do anything half-ass, I'm a perfectionist, I don't tolerate excuses and bullschitt. Its all about results. I don't like sitting around, I hate wasting time on things that aren't productive(watching tv, social media) and not mentally engaging. Most people can't meet my standards so that never satisfied feeling constantly gets reinforced.

I'd rather start over, than stick around and be unhappy. I've started over so many times in my life. The pain that comes from being unhappy and not satisfied is far worse than the pain that comes from going with out for a while and starting over. In fact, there is very little. New women are always around the corner, I just have to go after it like everything I've always done. If you want something, you figure it out, and you make it happen. No time to sit around having a pitty party for yourself.

I think it will always be hard for me to be in a relationship longer than 5yrs because of how I was raised. I expect too much, and when it doesn't happen I'm gone. Wash, Rinse, Repeat. Just a different kind of fuhked up.
 

BillyPilgrim

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I come from a very good family with loving/caring parents, zero dysfunction, always worked their problems out in a productive manner. As a result, its created a mismatch for the majority of people I might date. I haven't met one that I felt had better relationship skills.

I realized after I got divorced from the girl I dated in high school, that there was a lot of dysfunction in the world but I wasn't sure how to deal with it. It was all foreign to me. I was raised to work your problems out, have faith, and stick together. That not how the real world works. Its nothing like the Brady Bunch. I'm accustomed to sitting down and talking something out, and most people struggle to do that. So in a long term relationship when I don't have a capable partner as far as problem solving skills, I'm not afraid to cut ties if they can't meet my expectations for appropriate behavior.

I also moved around every few years growing up due to my dads job. He was always moving up the ladder in charge of a larger city and making more money. As a result you learn to be independent, and get really good at picking up and moving on. You have no choice. People come and go, and thats part of it. As traumatic as it is to leave friends behind you learn that its ok, but its really not. This also helped me to see its fine to cut ties and go on.

My dads job also helped teach me how shady people are, how the media manipulates things, and doesn't tell the truth. Lots of folks using each other for political/power gains. My dad's name was always in the newspaper. I had a school teacher or two that were either jealous or didn't like my dad that took it out on me as a 14yo kid. Lots of people trying to be your friend just because of who my dad was. Truth of the matter I never fit in with the popular/rich people although I kind of was one, I didn't care for their fakeness and how they used each other. Fancy restaurants, cars, and houses never meant schitt to me. Best to live humble. I felt most comfortable with the blue collar kids because they were real and didn't use you.

My family also pushed me to do better, strive for more, work hard, build and grow. Its great for accumulating wealth and assets, but their is a part of me that wished I was more content and more focused on what really matters. Whatever I set my mind to, its 110%. Its all or nothing. Women, Hobbies, Work, etc. Mediocre is never good enough. I can't do anything half-ass, I'm a perfectionist, I don't tolerate excuses and bullschitt. Its all about results. I don't like sitting around, I hate wasting time on things that aren't productive(watching tv, social media) and not mentally engaging. Most people can't meet my standards so that never satisfied feeling constantly gets reinforced.

I'd rather start over, than stick around and be unhappy. I've started over so many times in my life. The pain that comes from being unhappy and not satisfied is far worse than the pain that comes from going with out for a while and starting over. In fact, there is very little. New women are always around the corner, I just have to go after it like everything I've always done. If you want something, you figure it out, and you make it happen. No time to sit around having a pitty party for yourself.

I think it will always be hard for me to be in a relationship longer than 5yrs because of how I was raised. I expect too much, and when it doesn't happen I'm gone. Wash, Rinse, Repeat. Just a different kind of fuhked up.
This is all well and good Howie and great in your case, but if Catholic Culture could produce women that put out, that would be awesome.
 

The Duke

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This is all well and good Howie and great in your case, but if Catholic Culture could produce women that put out, that would be awesome.
I grew up living that Catholic life, come from a long line of them. I Was even an alter boy. Totally get what you're saying. Those Catholics built some great families.
 

Fortune_favors_the_bold

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This guy that (beside his voice) could easily amog most of us in terms of looks, talks about his inability to get friends...apparently he is good enough to get a wife but lacks the tools to establish connections with other guys, he also believes to suffer from the "impostor syndrome".

Funny how he talks about his frequent relocation as a kid that prevented him to establish deep friendships and probably the way to make it.

It's a point I never considered before reading it from @SW15 while in fact it's a very strong predictor of future problems for a man.
 
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