I am tired of blackpillers and anti-self improvement guys on here

[characternote]

I think the blackpill stuff might be keeping the forum alive tbh, lol. Many other PUA sites disappeared.

I'm fairly blackpilled (how can you not be?!) although I'm not especially bitter about it and you won't hear me actually moaning or complaining. It just it what it is. I play the numbers game and get laid some. Same as everyone else. And maybe there is a bit too much off-topic blackpill stuff for a pickup forum, but, at the same time, what really is there else to talk about?!

Here's the thing. By rights, on a 'pickup' forum, most threads SHOULD be things like 'there's this amazing 18 year old girl just recently moved into my apartment block. She's 10/10. For what it's worth, i'm 45 and overweight. How to get her?'' - And then people would give PUA advice 'say this line to her', 'use the following neg and then disqualify yourself with this line'. Talk about 'x subject and drop xyz into the convo etc etc. And he'd reply back with how it went

And they're the sort of threads and replies you'd see on PUA forums back in the day. The same ones that all died whilst this one still remains!

Why? Maybe beacuse it was all a load of nonsense lol. Hell, even if that question was asked on this forum, I know what the answer would be from the PUA experts. It would be 'shoot your shot! Ask her out. You never know your luck' basically. I promise. And whilst I do agree with that theoretical advice, do we really need a forum of experts to tell us that?

So then that leaves us with field reports, really. Not much else. But again, i'm not sure what the point is. I used to post lots of field reports and lay reports on this forum and a few others. But at one point I basically stopped writing them because it just felt like bragging. About something that wasn't in my control or a 'skill' and nothing I could teach anyone. A lay report is essentially saying 'I opened a girl who thought I was hot and so of course we ended up having sex'. It's like 'who cares?' lol. Anyone else in my body in that situation would also score with her. So I just stopped writing them

There's basically not a great deal to talk about is my point. It's not like we're still living in the mysterymethod days where we have a community of people who believe you can use 'game' (lines and techniques and stuff) to get any girl you want into bed with endless discussion about lines and techniques and theories that ugly old men can use to bang teenage models lol. And so we're not left with much else, and so general women talk and lifestyle and chat and some blackpill stuff is probably just the natural course

 

[corrector]

Sex doesn't translate to a successful life, I came for the opportunities this country brings, everything you write is negative, its victim mentality, you wanna be successful?

Leave your parents house, get a job, improve financially, get fit, approach women.

Answer this, how tall are you?

Two other prolific and successful posters such as @SargeMaximus and @SW15 have said sex is the most important priority, even if you are paying for it. All other priorities are less important. Therefore by that matrix if you are having sex then you are successful.

As I brought up the posters they can defend their positions themselves.

 

[characternote]

Before Roosh converted to Christianity, he said that he had moved from the red pill to the black pil

yeah, I can't seem to find the exact article, but I very clearly remember roosh (who by the way I have NO idea why people think he was some sort of successful womaniser!) made it quite clear that his opinion over the years had changed to 'game' being something to 'help you not completely screw up when you open a girl who likes how you look' (paraphrasing)

Funnily enough, prior to that, he used to ban people for saying the same thing on his forum!

 

[SW15]

So then that leaves us with field reports, really. Not much else. But again, i'm not sure what the point is. I used to post lots of field reports and lay reports on this forum and a few others. But at one point I basically stopped writing them because it just felt like bragging. About something that wasn't in my control or a 'skill' and nothing I could teach anyone. A lay report is essentially saying 'I opened a girl who thought I was hot and so of course we ended up having sex'. It's like 'who cares?' lol. Anyone else in my body in that situation would also score with her. So I just stopped writing them

I think field reports and lay reports can be good things but I see your point on them. @Jesse Pinkman has done well writing field reports in recent times and @nicksaiz65 has done some field reports during the time I've been on the forum.

There's basically not a great deal to talk about is my point. It's not like we're still living in the mysterymethod days where we have a community of people who believe you can use 'game' (lines and techniques and stuff) to get any girl you want into bed with endless discussion about lines and techniques and theories that ugly old men can use to bang teenage models lol. And so we're not left with much else, and so general women talk and lifestyle and chat and some blackpill stuff is probably just the natural course

A lot of people who have read stuff like Mystery Method or Roosh end up failing to implement it well into their own lives. The guys who read Mystery Method, Roosh, or other pickup stuff read it, absorb it, try to practice it, experience harsh blowouts or get ignored in approach sessions, and end up quitting it.

I know a guy who read both Mystery Method and Bang prior to 2011. He got into an LTR in a blue pill way via social circle and ended up violating Iron Rule of Tomassi #3 big time. He had a long wait for sex from it but there's an argument that can be made that he got multiple years of sex from waiting it out initially.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

yeah, I can't seem to find the exact article, but I very clearly remember roosh (who by the way I have NO idea why people think he was some sort of successful womaniser!) made it quite clear that his opinion over the years had changed to 'game' being something to 'help you not completely screw up when you open a girl who likes how you look' (paraphrasing)

Roosh pointed out in 2018 that people learning Game at that point in time were more likely to fail than the early to mid 2000s.

9 Ways Game Has Changed From 2001 To 2018

web.archive.org

 

[Luni]

It's hard work, can't expect everyone to swallow the RP.. Took me 3 years. Majority of BP guys just going through a stage. We've all been there, I was there for a good 6-12 months.

Once I truly internalized the red pill, which could only be done via real life experience.. I never looked back. Amused mastery now, x-ray vision.

Keep fighting fellas, it gets a lot better once you "just get it"

 

[mikedee]

The black pill is growing faster than the red pill, which is why you are observing that this forum is becoming more black pill.



Before Roosh converted to Christianity, he said that he had moved from the red pill to the black pill. It's clear to see Roosh giving a nod to the black pill in this 2018 article....

9 Ways Game Has Changed From 2001 To 2018

web.archive.org

I read Roosh's book "Day Bang" soon after its 2011 publication and moved my Game from mostly night game to mostly day game. I can identify with feeling excited because that's how I felt after reading "Day Bang". I felt that Roosh's "Day Bang" equipped me to be a daygamer. I had heard of daygame as far back as the mid-2000s but never really knew how to implement it. "Day Bang" helped show me how to do it.

Neil Strauss is an outlier success story. Strauss is 5'6" and bald. He was an incel/borderline incel before being an incel was recognized as thing. That's because Strauss was born in 1969, making him a Gen X'er. Millennials (early 1980s to mid-1990s births) were the generational cohort when incel status became far more common. Neil Strauss is old enough to be @CollegeMan22 's father.



There are some good seducers/players on this forum. There are also men on this forum not in a good place with women but seeking change.



Courtney Ryan is likely doing what she's doing for views and comments to make money off of her channel. You can make the argument that she wouldn't have had this idea if the dating market weren't bad.

Is Courtney Ryan a Fish Trying to Teach Men How to Catch Fish?

https://www.youtube.com/c/CourtneyRyan I can't figure out who is the target market for a woman being a men's issue specialist/leader.

www.sosuave.net

I've seen the dating market get worse in the last 15-20 years. 15-20 years ago, it wasn't that good either. This forum is so old that you could find threads from that era too. Strauss published "The Game" in 2005.



It's a very common experience for men to be using swipe apps and having "one date, no sex, no second date" type interactions. Those interactions can also happen from in-person approaching, but in-person approaching seems to be getting less common now.



Fathers and uncles of younger adult men today were not in most cases prepared to equip their sons for the modern mating market. That's only speaking for the fathers and uncles who have been present in their lives of their sons and nephews.

I have made the point previously that women are sending more and more men to the rejection pile as compared to past eras.

If you were a Boomer male in his 20s in the 1970s, you could probably have a decent sex/relationships life by being decent looking (not overweight with a decent face and average height or better) and having a decent job. A Boomer male (especially the first 2/3rds of that generation) could have a reasonably stable romantic relationship if he were average or slightly above average. The 1970s-1980s was the last time that a guy could get away with being somewhat ordinary and be able to have decent experiences. By the time the earliest Millennials reached the mating marketplace in the early 2000s, this wasn't reality anymore. A Millennial around the same level of quality as a Boomer 25-30 years earlier has a less stable romantic life than his Boomer equivalent.

There are plenty of 65-75 year old Boomer males today who had a woman life that their 30-40 year old Millennial sons can't replicate. While a 65-75 year old Boomer male could have gotten a long term wife or gotten divorced/remarried as a fairly ordinary guy, a 30-40 year old Millennial who is rather ordinary today is either an incel or a guy who experiences long sexual droughts in between extended relationships. It's a much different reality for the Millennial male, as there are far more incel/borderline incel occurrences among Millennial males. I'm interested to see what happens with Gen Z males.

Roosh, lol

 

[Stanley]

I think the point op is getting at isn't necessarily the blackpill in it of itself, but more so the effect it has and the mindsets that entail

Most guys that are blackpilled tend to perpetuate defeatist attitudes and instead of looking at things in a positive or optimistic light they view everything negatively and are extremely nihilistic. It is a damaging mindset to have and one best to be avoided. I stumbled upon it when I was a young teen and it really warped my world view and with time and application of myself I overcame the negative mental schema and realized how self limiting the whole thing is and how often times it is entirely inaccurate. I only did this by reflecting and putting myself out there, something most black pill guys NEVER do. They do not apply themselves and they are not accountable. Look at this thread, it speaks for itself. The defeatist come out of the wood work

As previously mentioned the black pill does indeed get some things right, but it isn't so black and while.

Most black pill guys are angry, they hate women, they hate the men that get women, they place blame on everything but themselves. Remember the blackpill rehtoric was born on puahate/sluthate and similar forums in years past. I won't get on my soap box and claim that looks don't matter because they absolutely do but the mindset of nearly every blackpill person is toxic and they lack nuance and life experience. They don't realize most of their problems are in their head and they suffer more in thought.

The blackpill pulls others down and does not a EVER bring men up.

They tear each other down in their own self deprecation, They come up with all sorts of theories as to why they fail with women yet most do not try overcome themselves in any way. The blackpill view is "why bother" because some extraneous outside factor dictates whether or not you get laid which is just wrong. They do not encourage men to improve, they take their own limited experiences and outwardly express their confirmation biases and hop aboard this negative group think. The only thing they advocate for is to get surgeries and fix every little minor detail of their body because they are sick in the head

This board is more than just about picking up chicks.

It is a place for men to speak more freely. To express themselves in a way they rarely can in real life. A place for men to seek advice. A place for men to learn about themselves. A place for guys to learn where they fall short and where they succeed. A place for men to improve.
Most blackpillers oppose ALL of these things.

I find it best to take whatever knowledge you see fit and apply as needed regardless of any 'pill'

 

[redskinsfan92]

This forum is becoming more and more blackpill. People are using the terms normie, chadlite, and chad seriously. I sense a large amount of apathy and disillusionment in the people who use these terms. They feel that they are confined to a certain league, defined by their looks, and are condemned to stay there. Approaching becomes pointless because no girls will respond.

This mentality was not in the PUA community in its heyday. When you read Roosh, Strauss, and especially Pook, you feel excited. You hear cool stories and you get pumped to try the tactics yourself. You may have once sucked with women, but writers like those above give you a spark to take action and approach. They remind you that you will fail, but that eventually — sometime — you will succeed.

It is from this inspiration that I began my PUA journey. I was excited — though very nervous — to learn how to get girls. These guys told me how to approach. They gave me a plan for action. I came into college and started applying. I failed a ton, and didn’t work up enough confidence to approach time after time, but I had a goal in my mind so I kept going.

These OG PUA guys weren’t against improving your looks. No, not at all. Pook’s article on gaining muscle mass inspired me to lift:

What every skinny guy should know…

High rates of testosterone affects not only your actions, I believe women can sniff it out. So take a guy, stuffed with testosterone, and push him into a room full of lovely young ladies. He doesn’t speak a word. He won’t have to. The women will go to him automatically.

bookofpook.com

But they didn’t tell me that I couldn’t approach if I didn’t have X muscles, Y veins, and Z height. There were no thresholds, no requirements. I just had to put the work in and eventually I would succeed. Yes, I had to improve myself as a man, but that was what I should be doing for myself anyways. I didn’t have to rate myself out of 10 every time I go out to “match” myself with an equal rating girl. Who wants to do that?

The above PUA authors helped me out greatly. I am having a blast at my college. I have two plates I bang every week now and not a year ago I hadn’t even kissed a girl. I’ve gained a good 40 pounds of muscle mass and can now bench 300 lbs max.

One of my biggest inspirations was these PUA guys, especially Pook. They have an excitement in their writing that makes you want to emulate them. It gives you a drive to see other guys’ success. You want to be like them. So you set to work, improve yourself and overcome your fears.

I just don’t see this enthusiastic mindset here much. There is much more complaining about the state of women in general, with the subtext being they are not even worth approaching anymore. Nothing is worth it, so the mentality goes.

Screw that. I don’t like this blackpill trend. Literally 99/100 guys aren’t approaching at all. They have no idea what their potential is. They don’t even know how to talk to girls, because they haven’t. I want these men to find sparks of inspiration, not endless moaning and groaning.

I tell some of my college friends my adventures with women, and they’re always amazed. Not many people do this stuff — and other guys think it’s pretty inspiring and cool. Why drive them off by being blackpill and against any sort of improvement? Instead drive them forward, to greener pastures!

I hope this blackpill trend changes and we can inspire more men through this forum.

What blackpillers? I haven't seen very .any

 

[Murk]

Agree, don't let the helpless guys here distract from us that are making positive moves

 

[corrector]

Agree, don't let the helpless guys here distract from us that are making positive moves

But is it really a positive move for you though? Are you are really comfortable with this or are you struggling? Dont waste your freedom with worldly things but set your affection on things above. We should be looking up not down. All things may be allowed, but not everything is profitable or leading towards spiritual maturity.

 

[Murk]

But is it really a positive move for you though? Are you are really comfortable with this or are you struggling? Dont waste your freedom with worldly things but set your affection on things above. We should be looking up not down. All things may be allowed, but not everything is profitable or leading towards spiritual maturity.

I submit to the Most High, I'm set apart and don't covert worldly things. I also smash on date 1 or 2, so I can't really relate to most men complaining here. We are all built differently, I try to give advice, and I tell you guys my ups and downs, but ultimately when it comes to women I don't really need help. I think back to Solomon and David in that regard, I use this forum for other reasons. My life, my very being, has gotten significantly better since I started observing the 7th day sabbath and Hebrew holidays. Does that conflict with me running through girls? Yes, but I'm trying to be better. The only commandment of the 10 I'm struggling with.

 

[SargeMaximus]

Peak PUA was about how you could get the results you wanted despite the handicaps you had. I do miss those days. Unfortunately, I don’t see a path forward since most in the space are “it is what it is” rather than “here’s how you can do it”. I keep coming here tho on the off chance someone will one day have that magical wisdom

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I think it would be helpful to create one or more sub-forums.

Give the Black Pillers their own designated space. If they get off on their perspective then let them do that with each other, outside the main forum threads. Let the distinction in perspectives be made more clear that way. And allow mods to move posts there. In the process I think it might help some of the black pillers to see how far their perspectives have shifted. For the well known Black Pillers who consciously expect to always identify as Black Pill, then they’d have a designated space to spout their black pill thoughts to themselves or anyone who is curious to go see.

I think moving Black Pill content off the main threads would allow the positive influence of SS to resurface and hopefully expand again.

On a different note, I also think a trying out a distinct sub-forum for Red Pill Men in LTR’s, could create a positive space, for more discussions and support, for the many men here who have chosen to LTR and even get married. There are many here. I imagine there would be more shared in the topic, if there was welcome space to do so, that is more separate from those always seeking to get and spin more plates.

And then maybe a subform for the few MGTOW’s that are consciously choosing that as their personal lifestyle moving forward.

All Possibilities…

At the very least, imho please at least redirect the Black Pill content off the main threads and into a sub-forum, if need be, so the main sub-forums and threads can become an encouraging place for SS men again.

To better comply with the female imperative?

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Peak PUA was about how you could get the results you wanted despite the handicaps you had. I do miss those days. Unfortunately, I don’t see a path forward since most in the space are “it is what it is” rather than “here’s how you can do it”. I keep coming here tho on the off chance someone will one day have that magical wisdom

How about both? Dating sucks but it would be better if you worked on your personality.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I submit to the Most High, I'm set apart and don't covert worldly things. I also smash on date 1 or 2, so I can't really relate to most men complaining here. We are all built differently, I try to give advice, and I tell you guys my ups and downs, but ultimately when it comes to women I don't really need help. I think back to Solomon and David in that regard, I use this forum for other reasons. My life, my very being, has gotten significantly better since I started observing the 7th day sabbath and Hebrew holidays. Does that conflict with me running through girls? Yes, but I'm trying to be better. The only commandment of the 10 I'm struggling with.

And how in the hell do you know the creator of the universe is the same entity(ies) parading around in the bible and cantankerously barking out orders?

How do you know "God" isn't some whited-skinned humanoid extraterrestrial assh0le attempting to use us as a slave species?

How, Murk?

 

[SargeMaximus]

How about both? Dating sucks but it would be better if you worked on your personality.

The problem with working on your personality is it comes across as fake and women can sense it

 

[CollegeMan22]

The problem with working on your personality is it comes across as fake and women can sense it

Fake it till you make it, man. At first, you won't be congruent, but sometimes the tips people give you will work. Then once you get success, you will become naturally more confident, as that confidence will be grounded upon actual victories. From there it just becomes "you". There is no problem with improving your personality. You always have to start somewhere.

 

[SargeMaximus]

Fake it till you make it, man. At first, you won't be congruent, but sometimes the tips people give you will work. Then once you get success, you will become naturally more confident, as that confidence will be grounded upon actual victories. From there it just becomes "you". There is no problem with improving your personality. You always have to start somewhere.

Not true. I’m not new to game and I tried for many years to fake it till I made it. Was a virgin till I said “fvck that” and was myself

 

[characternote]

Peak PUA was about how you could get the results you wanted despite the handicaps you had. I do miss those days. I keep coming here tho on the off chance someone will one day have that magical wisdom

That 'wisdom' is already out there in the form of the old material.
Not that it actually worked as sold, of course. If it did, people wouldn't be 'still looking for the magical wisdom'
You see the contradiction?
Everyone has read and tested mysterymethod and NLP and everything else, yet all still looking for the next thing.
There is no magic bullet. You improve what you can and you approach lots of girls and you bang the ones who like you back. You can't make her like you, i'm afraid. Not with all the 'game' in the world

 

[sangheilios]

Fake it till you make it, man. At first, you won't be congruent, but sometimes the tips people give you will work. Then once you get success, you will become naturally more confident, as that confidence will be grounded upon actual victories. From there it just becomes "you". There is no problem with improving your personality. You always have to start somewhere.

That's not true at all and if anything will make things worse.

The only thing a man should be trying to change is if he has really poor social skills or something like very odd body language, stuff like excessive or low/no eye contact, odd mannerisms, etc. This is definitely a very real issue for some men, particularly those who are legitimately on the spectrum on some level. A lot of men in the engineering and hard science fields (physics, chemistry, etc.) would honestly be in this category. Something else I think of is having poor social interactions with the opposite sex, this is often a result of just being inexperienced. This could be something like being too pushy or aggressive, having a sense of humor that women don't really understand, etc.

Now, trying to actually change your personality will just make you come across as fake. Men that are highly extroverted, life of the party types don't act that way intentionally, it's just their nature. A man that is naturally more introverted who tries to put on an act like this is going to come across as awkward or strange to others. They may not be able to pick up on specifically what it is, but his behavior will feel off to them. This is where recognizing what type of social interactions work for you and those that don't. An introvert like this would not do good at a club, bar or party type environment.