Advice after second date

[Stanley]

I honestly think she is hard to read but I'm sure inexperience is also a factor. After the first date I hadn't planned to have a second as I assumed she wasn't interested. Obviously inviting me over is a clear sign. I think she is quite awkward and nervous herself and you're right it's up to me to take the lead.

Yeah I figured, that's what I meant by mutual awkwardness. Just own it, you can even crack a joke about it being awkward and nervous and POOF! It will put you both at ease. She might genuinely not be certain of you yet and she hardly knows you. Try escalating and leading next time and see how things go.

How old is she?

 

[Bigrig]

Yeah I figured, that's what I meant by mutual awkwardness. Just own it, you can even crack a joke about it being awkward and nervous and POOF! It will put you both at ease. She might genuinely not be certain of you yet and she hardly knows you. Try escalating and leading next time and see how things go.

How old is she?

She's 26 I'm 25

 

[Stanley]

She's 26 I'm 25

Dang she's 26 and has a house? Good for her.

Okay, so she's likely not a complete noob. I wouldn't get in your head about this any longer. I think you know what you gotta do and remember to relax when you're with her. You might need to build some more rapport with her, if she seems comfy around you there should be no reason to not take it up a notch. If she is into you she will reciprocate, if she isn't ready she will decline and you take it in stride. At the very least it shows you want her sexually and women want to feel desired.

-Hit her up again, make the date, go have fun with her, be confident and lead
-Don't put pressure on yourself, her, or the outcome, it will show.
-go in for a kiss and see where it goes, escalate
-It is okay to be nervous, just own it for the both of you

You've got it man

 

[Bigrig]

Dang she's 26 and has a house? Good for her.

Okay, so she's likely not a complete noob. I wouldn't get in your head about this any longer. I think you know what you gotta do and remember to relax when you're with her. You might need to build some more rapport with her, if she seems comfy around you there should be no reason to not take it up a notch. If she is into you she will reciprocate, if she isn't ready she will decline and you take it in stride. At the very least it shows you want her sexually and women want to feel desired.

-Hit her up again, make the date, go have fun with her, be confident and lead
-Don't put pressure on yourself, her, or the outcome, it will show.
-go in for a kiss and see where it goes, escalate
-It is okay to be nervous, just own it for the both of you

You've got it man

It's a sharehouse actually with random people, that could be another part to it.

Cheers for the advice I know what to do

 

[manfrombelow]

I get the sense OP could have picked a better prospect. Screening is as important as execution.

This "prospect" initiated a second date with OP, and invited him back into her home. If that's not a good "prospect" I don't know what is.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

This "prospect" initiated a second date with OP, and invited him back into her home. If that's not a good "prospect" I don't know what is.

90% of the time when they invite you home they're dtf. There's the other 10%

The 2nd date was a picnic date. Not the worst but not ideal.

 

[Atom Smasher]

OP, keep in mind that you should NEVER let a woman end a date. If it’s not going anywhere for that particular night, you should be bugging out early.
When a woman ends a date, it sets a very bad precedent for future interactions and makes you appear like an orbiter who overstayed his welcome.
Always leave ‘em wanting more.

 

[SW15]

The girl was putting up barriers after she invited him in. Outside where it's public, chairs for separation. Telling him to wait outside.

Yes, on OP for bad screening in addition to bad execution. Not saying he couldn't have done better.

She invites him to her place but they are outside on the porch.

There was bad execution on his part. It's likely that there will not be a third date.

There is a concept that attraction has an expiration date. The inability to make a move within 2 dates is likely to mean no sex, unless this is a dating process of two practicing Christians who are no sex before marriage types.

I don't mind waiting a bit for sex as I want to keep seeing her anyway but I left feeling a bit underwhelmed and confused.

Never expect a woman will see you again at least until you have fvcked her AT LEAST once. Even then, one fvck session in this time and age won't guarantee anything. In my experience, it should be until at least the 4th and 5th fvcks (assuming you did a good job at it) then a woman can truly be hooked to you a.k.a keeps wanting to see you again and again.

I can identify with the idea of waiting for sex to some degree. There are situations where waiting can make sense.

The problem is that the modern mating environment has changed so much. There's no guarantee of ever seeing the other person again after an early stage date without sex. If there's no guarantee of a future and with most secular people actively dating multiple other people, it's difficult to make a case for waiting for sex. Additionally, women operate on "all the feelz", something that has gotten worse in the last 15-20 years. Women expect magic, instantaneous connection, and "all the feelz" on the first date. It's possible to have a 2nd date without first date sex if she's feeling the right vibes. She has to feel a connection and it has to be strong connection. It takes a much stronger connection now to get a 2nd or 3rd date as compared to 20-30 years ago simply because the typical woman has more options now than her 1995-2005 equivalent. If she doesn't feel "all the feelz" right away, there are many men waiting in her DMs and in her swipe app queue.

I also agree that the first instance of sex is not a guarantee of ever seeing a person again. 3-5 instances of sex indicate that some sort of real relationship is forming.

 

[pipeman84]

The worst thing you can do is take a woman out on a date and have her wonder what your intent is.

She already knows the guy is interested in her, that's why they are on a date. The fact he's a challenge (which is one top male trait necessary in the seduction process, beside confidence and self control) and he's not putting all his cards on the table works in his favor.

Rule of thumb is to never expect to see a woman again until you have fvcked her. And even then, that's not a guarantee.

That can't be a clinically sane woman you're describing there.

OP, taking it slow can't hurt you provided you're dealing with a sane woman who has at least some interest level in you. The key though is that you going slow should come out of a 'is she good enough for me' abundance mentality as opposed to you being too timid/scared to make a move. In the first instance, you'll intrigue her and make her chase you. In the second, you'll probably repel her.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

She already knows the guy is interested in her, that's why they are on a date. The fact he's a challenge (which is one top male trait necessary in the seduction process, beside confidence and self control) and he's not putting all his cards on the table works in his favor.

That can't be a clinically sane woman you're describing there.

OP, taking it slow can't hurt you provided you're dealing with a sane woman who has at least some interest level in you. The key though is that you going slow should come out of a 'is she good enough for me' abundance mentality as opposed to you being too timid/scared to make a move. In the first instance, you'll intrigue her and make her chase you. In the second, you'll probably repel her.

No it doesn't. He is nervous(to the point she called it out) and the woman thinks he has no game and is too scared to make a move. That never is to your advantage. It makes her think he is a scared little boy and not a grown man.

Done the right way that can work to your advantage but this assuredly is NOT the right way to do it even if that was OP's plan which it wasn't.

Context matters and how and why something happens and her perception of that is as important as the fact that it happened.

The comment about not guaranteeing seeing a woman again stems from them dating multiple guys in the beginning...typically once sex happens with one of them the others fade out.
While OP is afraid to kiss her another guy with game might get a crack at her in between his date next week and fvck the life out of her. Guess what guy she is going to be more interested in seeing again and which one gets ghosted or told some version of "I don't feel we have the right chemistry between us", aka, you didn't fvck me when you had the chance and someone else did.

Every man has been on the wrong side of this at some point. The fact you think this is some weird thing that only a crazy women does makes me think you either have very little real world in date experience with women or are so good looking that none of this matters to you since it comes easy, which is not the case for the other 90% of men.

 

[Dr.Suave]

@Bigrig Play it cool and escalate

 

[pipeman84]

The comment about not guaranteeing seeing a woman again stems from them dating multiple guys in the beginning...typically once sex happens with one of them the others fade out.
While OP is afraid to kiss her another guy with game might get a crack at her in between his date next week and fvck the life out of her. Guess what guy she is going to be more interested in seeing again and which one gets ghosted or told some version of "I don't feel we have the right chemistry between us", aka, you didn't fvck me when you had the chance and someone else did.

Every man has been on the wrong side of this at some point. The fact you think this is some weird thing that only a crazy women does makes me think you either have very little real world in date experience with women or are so good looking that none of this matters to you since it comes easy, which is not the case for the other 90% of men.

We agree that if the OP comes across as insecure is not doing him any favor. But let's assume the guy is acting cool, sends the vibe of evaluating her, is being a challenge in Doc's Love lingo. The woman spends a few hours on a date with him, but till next week has another 3 dates lined up, one of which with a guy who is so pushy that the date ends up in his/her bedroom. So she forgets the first guy. That's your point.

My point is that such a woman is not clinically sane and entering a relationship with her is like playing with dynamite, ie bound to explode in your hands and hurt you. Dating multiple guys at once is not normal, fvcking so quickly after first knowing a guy is not normal, forgetting/ghosting a guy with whom you spent hours having a good time is also not normal --> these are all signs of a very fickle woman with little to no capacity of bonding.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

We agree that if the OP comes across as insecure is not doing him any favor. But let's assume the guy is acting cool, sends the vibe of evaluating her, is being a challenge in Doc's Love lingo. The woman spends a few hours on a date with him, but till next week has another 3 dates lined up, one of which with a guy who is so pushy that the date ends up in his/her bedroom. So she forgets the first guy. That's your point.

My point is that such a woman is not clinically sane and entering a relationship with her is like playing with dynamite, ie bound to explode in your hands and hurt you. Dating multiple guys at once is not normal, fvcking so quickly after first knowing a guy is not normal, forgetting/ghosting a guy with whom you spent hours having a good time is also not normal --> these are all signs of a very fickle woman with little to no capacity of bonding.

It has nothing too with being sane or thought processes or anything else. It has to do with emotional investment. One guy has caused her to emotionally invest in him and the other one has not. That's really the long and short of it.

To your example you are using 2 extremes. One guy is the smooth charmer who relaxes and chills and the other guy is the super pushy A-hole. And if you are on a date with a woman twice and don't even attempt to kiss her, that isn't playing is cool that is playing scared. She isn't wondering sh!t at that point, she knows why you haven't made a move

In MOST cases you are not dealing with extremes. One guy assumes she is sexually attracted to him and escalates and the other one questions imself and doesn't. This happens ALL. THE. TIME.

She may be open to sleeping with either one but the one who strikes first is the one who causes her to become emotionally invested which then causes her interest to rise in him and fall in the other one.

 

[Bigrig]

Update:
Next date went well and ended with a makeout sesh in my car. She said let's set up the next one and I gave her my availability which was basically Thursday or in a week and a half. I'm 90% sure said Thurs she is free and then she said to text her. I text her to set up Thurs and now she has said I'd love to but I've got (work contract thing) until 9. Like I said I'm 90% sure she said she is free Thurs and that the work thing finishes on Tuesday. Either she is ****ing with me, I misheard or she said Tues by accident (which could be cos she has like 4 jobs and I keep losing track of it, but seems unlikely). Thoughts? I think at this point maybe I'll just forget about her for a bit and try again later when I'm free again

 

[manfrombelow]

at 26 her roast beef might be looking for the settle down sandwich.

Beautifully said.

 

[ThisIsSparta]

Update:
Next date went well and ended with a makeout sesh in my car. She said let's set up the next one and I gave her my availability which was basically Thursday or in a week and a half. I'm 90% sure said Thurs she is free and then she said to text her. I text her to set up Thurs and now she has said I'd love to but I've got (work contract thing) until 9. Like I said I'm 90% sure she said she is free Thurs and that the work thing finishes on Tuesday. Either she is ****ing with me, I misheard or she said Tues by accident (which could be cos she has like 4 jobs and I keep losing track of it, but seems unlikely). Thoughts? I think at this point maybe I'll just forget about her for a bit and try again later when I'm free again

Just stick to what you have told her, you are not free until 1,5 weeks, you are busy, your time is valuable.
As you already initiated text to setup the next date, dont initiate again.
If it is of any worth to her, she will text you to setup the date in 1,5+ weeks, if not she has low interest-> NEXT