How many hours is too many

[Murk]

I feel like I burned myself out the last 3-4 months. I feel like working too much/too many hours on my business has lead me to miss things, details, not work as efficiently, not capitalise on as many new business ventures/leads, not follow up as much. These days I'm burned TF out by 3-4pm where before I could go to 7-8-9-10-11pm easily.

Now I just want to wake up and start working around 7-8am lunch/gym at 1-2pm then stop working at 4pm.

Is it all the coffee? I stay within 400mg of caffeine daily, but I'm consuming that all in 4ish hours from 9am-1pm. I'm leaving 1.5hours (green tea) from when I wake to drinking coffee to avoid the crash, but I keep crashing. I feel the will to power on into the evening leaving me. You hear all these stories about people working crazy hours non-stop, is it sustainable? I don't feel like it is, I've tried, I'm trying. There's not enough hours in the day and I am looking at outsourcing a lot of things.

I'm just worried about my general drive right now. I've done 7am to 6pm (current time). That is surely enough, I feel like I can't let competitors beat me, but also if I go to sleep late my mornings are not productive and I'm a very morning-orientated person. I'm trying to smash the mornings and tail off early, still get a good rest and can keep doing that.

Just rambling. Probably just after the effect from a long weekend of partying (I woke up at 6am Monday to work so I wouldn't let the week run away despite my weekend antics).

 

[Bible_Belt]

I had a friend at a construction job where we built houses. He once explained that the reason we didn't work longer than 8 hours in a day was that after that time, we weren't worth as much. When you make mistakes and waste materials, you're losing more money than if you weren't working at all.

 

[Murk]

Dude I read ^i feel^ pretty often in your text. Sounds like low t for me. When was the last time you checked your testo

Like 3 weeks ago, gave 5 vials of blood they were meant to check everything... and they botched it and gave me all readings EXCEPT the fcking T. At least I know I'm in perfect health (surprisingly), I need to go back and do the SHBG, Estradiol, T etc. I'll try to go this week actually.

Anyway, there will be a lot of "I feels" because it's literally a thread on my feelings.

 

[Murk]

I had a friend at a construction job where we built houses. He once explained that the reason we didn't work longer than 8 hours in a day was that after that time, we weren't worth as much. When you make mistakes and waste materials, you're losing more money than if you weren't working at all.

Yeah, after 8 hours I feel it's worthless work (or more inefficient), going through the motions, my brain is ready to switch off. I'll do some research on optimum working time I bet it's like 8 hours split into 4x 2 hour sprints.

 

[Bingo-Player]

I feel like I burned myself out the last 3-4 months. I feel like working too much/too many hours on my business has lead me to miss things, details, not work as efficiently, not capitalise on as many new business ventures/leads, not follow up as much. These days I'm burned TF out by 3-4pm where before I could go to 7-8-9-10-11pm easily.

Now I just want to wake up and start working around 7-8am lunch/gym at 1-2pm then stop working at 4pm.

Is it all the coffee? I stay within 400mg of caffeine daily, but I'm consuming that all in 4ish hours from 9am-1pm. I'm leaving 1.5hours (green tea) from when I wake to drinking coffee to avoid the crash, but I keep crashing. I feel the will to power on into the evening leaving me. You hear all these stories about people working crazy hours non-stop, is it sustainable? I don't feel like it is, I've tried, I'm trying. There's not enough hours in the day and I am looking at outsourcing a lot of things.

I'm just worried about my general drive right now. I've done 7am to 6pm (current time). That is surely enough, I feel like I can't let competitors beat me, but also if I go to sleep late my mornings are not productive and I'm a very morning-orientated person. I'm trying to smash the mornings and tail off early, still get a good rest and can keep doing that.

Just rambling. Probably just after the effect from a long weekend of partying (I woke up at 6am Monday to work so I wouldn't let the week run away despite my weekend antics).

You need to ask yourself what it is you are actually chasing ?

Many of my freinds are "workaholics" and treat how many hours they put in like its some sort of competition

they never have time to do anything or relax one of my mates is a tradesman he gets up at 5am and comes home at 8-9pm monday - friday

He will also usually work saturday mornings too , he is constantly telling me he is exhausted and looks awful yet he won't stop

Other than the accumulation of money in the bank his day to day life has not changed at all in the last 5 years and i doubt it will change in the next 10 either

The taxman takes about half of whatever he earns now and he is effectively stuck on this never ending hamster wheel

It has already cost him 3 relationships in his 20's and i strongly believe it may cost him another one in his 30's

He understands he has a problem but literally cannot stop

Modern society pushes you for economic output through varying social constructs like debt/mortage/taxation

Its only when you stop you realise its all a fugazi ,your on a path to nowhere but your death bed

Understand your time is the most precious thing on this earth , not your output or money

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Caffeine is a really crappy drug. It's addicting but you always need more and more to continue getting the same effects. 400 mg a day is getting dangerously close to too much.

Personally I think if you feel you need caffeine there are some other things going wrong with your way of life...sleeping, diet, exercise, etc.

Caffeine is simply used to try to cover up deficinecies they have in those aspects of their life. The better way? Eliminate those deficiencies.

People tend to not have a balance in their life of work, relaxation, fun time and relationships and typically go too far to one side of one of these.

Perhaps search for more balance? Try some meditation. It helps quiet your mind and relaxes you.

 

[2Rocky]

It hink if you are going to work long hours, it is more important to set aside time to analyze your progress. See if that extra time is netting you more sales, more income, more clients.

I really believe in the 80/20 rule (80% of your results come from 20% of your effort/clients) and make sure your time allocation reflects the results you are receiving. It is important that you reflect on what is working if you want to keep up the pace, and set goal markers along the way....

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I had a friend at a construction job where we built houses. He once explained that the reason we didn't work longer than 8 hours in a day was that after that time, we weren't worth as much. When you make mistakes and waste materials, you're losing more money than if you weren't working at all.

I believe it. When I was building websites for an affiliate side hustle, I noticed if I "forced" myself to work when I wasn't feeling sharp, the quality of my work was sufficiently bad that I ended up having to redo tons of mistakes. The whole "grinding" mindset is cancer - this is a ubiqituous mindset that I think comes from the puritan work ethic that is instilled in our culture, but is not relevant today. People still think that more hours = more output, when in reality less hours + more efficency = more output in the long run.

 

[Murk]

You all raise good points, but I don't plan on working crazy hours forever. I'm doing several people's job in my business until I save up enough to hire more people. It's just been a grind getting it up and running, profitable, with paying clients. My plan is this year Q3 or Q4 to hire 2 consultants to do what I'm doing (business development & delivery).

I have taken on board the caffeine comment and will limit to 3 cups a day 150-200mg down from 400mg. Slowly get down to just 1 before my workout eventually.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

You all raise good points, but I don't plan on working crazy hours forever. I'm doing several people's job in my business until I save up enough to hire more people. It's just been a grind getting it up and running, profitable, with paying clients. My plan is this year Q3 or Q4 to hire 2 consultants to do what I'm doing (business development & delivery).

I have taken on board the caffeine comment and will limit to 3 cups a day 150-200mg down from 400mg. Slowly get down to just 1 before my workout eventually.

Hmm I don't know if it's the caffeine, but everyone is different. I consume metric ****loads, like 5-6 cups of cold brew + energy drinks per day and I don't feel stressed. But if I work too hard, I always get burnt out, sick, etc.

To answer your original question - 40 hours is already too much. Optimal is somewhere around 20-30. If you work 40+ hours every week, you're guaranteed to be overworked.

 

[Pandora]

Im not saying we should neccesarily go back to tribes but the tribal people had a point. So did the Amish. Affluence and " advancement" really just enslaves us. We look down on " primitive" cultures yet they are objectively more happy. Just saying.

 

[jaygreenb]

You all raise good points, but I don't plan on working crazy hours forever. I'm doing several people's job in my business until I save up enough to hire more people. It's just been a grind getting it up and running, profitable, with paying clients. My plan is this year Q3 or Q4 to hire 2 consultants to do what I'm doing (business development & delivery).

I have taken on board the caffeine comment and will limit to 3 cups a day 150-200mg down from 400mg. Slowly get down to just 1 before my workout eventually.

How many years have you had this business? For me, took around 5yrs of extreme sacrifice to get to the point I could starting backing off a little bit and hire people to fill specific roles. I had pretty limited capital to get things going so I had to wear a lot of hats initially. I am pretty conservative with adding fixed expenses though but from my observation for new business owners, 3-5yrs of initial grinding is pretty standard. Burn out is real though, just don't get to the point you quit all together.

 

[Murk]

How many years have you had this business? For me, took around 5yrs of extreme sacrifice to get to the point I could starting backing off a little bit and hire people to fill specific roles. I had pretty limited capital to get things going so I had to wear a lot of hats initially. I am pretty conservative with adding fixed expenses though but from my observation for new business owners, 3-5yrs of initial grinding is pretty standard. Burn out is real though, just don't get to the point you quit all together.

2 years in, I had savings from the commission I earned in my last job which I lived on for 18 months while grinding. Clients are not my problem, I have too much work. My struggle is time and staying focused which I've been very good at these last 5 months.

 

[jaygreenb]

2 years in, I had savings from the commission I earned in my last job which I lived on for 18 months while grinding. Clients are not my problem, I have too much work. My struggle is time and staying focused which I've been very good at these last 5 months.

Not sure what you do and if you can hire people, but in order to scale and eventually get a balanced lifestyle, you have to hire and delegate. If possible, hire to fill the roles or do the work you least like to do or are not great at. Might help with focus/enjoyment if you can delegate out those tedious duties. It can hurt your bottom line initially taking on the costs of employees but a lot of small business owners cap themselves because they do not want to eat the initial costs. Burn out and loss of focus eventually happens if you try to do everything yourself, that was an initial struggle for me. Might help if you determine what your long term goals are in terms of lifestyle/time commitment/revenue/income then reverse engineer on what steps that would take to get there. That is the great thing about being a business owner, can basically build out whatever suits your needs if you are capable.

May or may not apply to you but several cheaper options is using a bookkeeper or hire a virtual assistant abroad. I know several people who have had success with that with minimal costs compared to hiring in the West. They used a company in the Philippines since they all speak English.

 

[Stuffnu]

This becomes more important as you get older.
I hustled big time in my 20’s and early 30’s to differentiate from my peers and gain experience In my field. Now that I’m enjoying the fruits of my labor, I’m refocusing on taking the appropriate time off.
Just turned down a promotion, because the increased hours, stress and tax deductions(!!!) is no longer worth it.
You only live once fellas. Live life to the fullest.

 

[jaygreenb]

This becomes more important as you get older.
I hustled big time in my 20’s and early 30’s to differentiate from my peers and gain experience In my field. Now that I’m enjoying the fruits of my labor, I’m refocusing on taking the appropriate time off.
Just turned down a promotion, because the increased hours, stress and tax deductions(!!!) is no longer worth it.
You only live once fellas. Live life to the fullest.

There really is no avoiding that 5-10yrs of really pushing it to build that foundation if you have aspirations to be above average. Better to do it earlier in life if possible due to energy levels and fewer commitments outside of work. You have to be able to dial that back on some point too if you want to live a balanced life. Similar to you, spent my 20's and 30's really pushing it. Now at 43, I'm trying to enjoy it

 

[Reincarnated]

There's some good advice here. Time, especially the younger you are, is your greatest asset. I'm a big proponent of having the end-goal, or some intermediary goal in sight, and always frame your work in the context of moving towards that purpose. If the work is just a means for getting a paycheck, that's alright for a while, because you need money to advance your position, but that's not going to work long term. You need to frame your goals and determine whether what your doing now is bringing you closer or further from them.

I also advocate for saving/responsibly investing as much as you reasonably can (and this means no crypto or risky meme stocks), I'm talking tax-advantaged index funds, etc. This is because you need to get yourself on the road to financial independence, and time in the market is the #1 key to this for most people.

Keep grinding it out and fighting the good fight, but make sure you have a viable exit strategy. I'm a CPA doing corporate accounting, I don't love what I do, but I tolerate it well enough (and it's a great gig for my age) because I know that not so far in the future if I grind it out and purposefully improve my craft over a period of years, I have the credentials and expertise to set my own working conditions.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that I'd you aren't already to deep into your career, make a conscious decision to find something that is valuable to society, pays well, and you can become the go-to expert in. Work like hell at it for an extended period of time (but don't forget to enjoy life), and before you know it , you'll be on the path to prosperity. But the truth is, there are no shortcuts viable for most people

 

[Reincarnated]

Im not saying we should neccesarily go back to tribes but the tribal people had a point. So did the Amish. Affluence and " advancement" really just enslaves us. We look down on " primitive" cultures yet they are objectively more happy. Just saying.

I'm not disagreeing with the general principles your making, but let's be honest, David Choe is a multi-multi millionaire, having an extremely wealthy guy preaching these tenets kind of negates it to some extent. He had to have the means to even be able to have those experiences in the first place, and when he has had enough of it, he can come on back to the luxuries of his modern and upscale lifestyle. I give him a lot of credit for his work and knowledge, but notice how he didn't turn to tribal life permanently

 

[Pandora]

I'm not disagreeing with the general principles your making, but let's be honest, David Choe is a multi-multi millionaire, having an extremely wealthy guy preaching these tenets kind of negates it to some extent. He had to have the means to even be able to have those experiences in the first place, and when he has had enough of it, he can come on back to the luxuries of his modern and upscale lifestyle. I give him a lot of credit for his work and knowledge, but notice how he didn't turn to tribal life permanently

Great point

 

[jaygreenb]

There's some good advice here. Time, especially the younger you are, is your greatest asset. I'm a big proponent of having the end-goal, or some intermediary goal in sight, and always frame your work in the context of moving towards that purpose. If the work is just a means for getting a paycheck, that's alright for a while, because you need money to advance your position, but that's not going to work long term. You need to frame your goals and determine whether what your doing now is bringing you closer or further from them.

I also advocate for saving/responsibly investing as much as you reasonably can (and this means no crypto or risky meme stocks), I'm talking tax-advantaged index funds, etc. This is because you need to get yourself on the road to financial independence, and time in the market is the #1 key to this for most people.

Keep grinding it out and fighting the good fight, but make sure you have a viable exit strategy. I'm a CPA doing corporate accounting, I don't love what I do, but I tolerate it well enough (and it's a great gig for my age) because I know that not so far in the future if I grind it out and purposefully improve my craft over a period of years, I have the credentials and expertise to set my own working conditions.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that I'd you aren't already to deep into your career, make a conscious decision to find something that is valuable to society, pays well, and you can become the go-to expert in. Work like hell at it for an extended period of time (but don't forget to enjoy life), and before you know it , you'll be on the path to prosperity. But the truth is, there are no shortcuts viable for most people

Accounting is a great background to have for all areas of business, get comfortable with the sales side and you will have a lot of options even if it is running your own firm.