Hard Truth: There is no decent alternative to OLD

[SW15]

I can assure you no one here is trying to date retail workers, maybe you are, if so more power to you.

I like dating career women, that you pejoratively classify, because I like to spend my time with someone who I perceive as an intellectual peer. I like when a woman has drive to do something besides stay at home and flip channels on the couch.

People on here act like there's 2 type of women.

1. NEETs/retail workers
2. High powered career women

I like to date women in between those 2 extremes. I like women with some sort of job that's enough for them to afford not to live with their parents but not a job that's so demanding that they are career obsessed. I perceive that dental hygienist is an example of this type of job. It pays a decent salary but it's not overly demanding. Also, that job doesn't require a bachelor's degree, it's a trade certification. It's one of the best jobs for women who don't want to go to college.

I also like women's with bachelor's degrees from non-elite schools who aren't mid to upper level managers. They might be sales reps or other basic kinds of workers with 40 hour a week jobs.

This plot doesn't tell you which of these relationships ended in marriage/kids, which would be the end goal for couples unless you were just trying to hook up and increase your notch count.

That's true. There are some flaws in that. It shows longevity of relationships as a relationship that formed in college in 2003 that was still active in 2017 had 14 years of longevity. Longevity does not equal quality though. Yes, there are flaws with that data set by design.

Nah, I went to a large public university that everyone in the US knows about.

Sure people do move, but if you leveraged your social circle correctly and moved to a big city that is a target for the school you went to, then you will likely be able to go with your girlfriend to that city, or meet a girl of a similar educational background once you move there.

Here are examples of schools and their most common target major metro for their alumni.

University of Colorado and Colorado State -- Denver
University of Arizona -- Phoenix
University of Georgia -- Atlanta
Texas A&M/Texas Tech -- Dallas or Houston
Any school in a smaller town in the New England region -- Boston

wherever you went, early on you are bound to know someone, and you can still in your 20s post graduation mingle with other fresh grads who moved to the city for professional opportunities and hopefully as your social circle expands, so will your dating prospects of ideally-aged women.

If you don't bring your college era girlfriend to your first post college city, you're likely looking at the swipe app, social media DM, or approaching strangers path. All those paths are more challenging than meeting in college and social circle.

@SW15 The average neurotypical guy would be hard pressed to burn through all his prospects at a large university with 40,000 students. At this point, half of this population is within his social circle's grasp, assuming he has the right personality to conform to the expectations of these college aged women.

There's no way for a neurotypical guy to burn through prospects at a university that is 30,000-40,000+. At a 40,000 student university, a neurotypical guy is lucky if he even knows 1,000 of the 40,000 students on campus at a given time. On a large university campus, it's nearly impossible to develop a reputation because the university is too big. A college male could cold approach all he wanted and still not approach all the women on campus. A social circle alone still only gets someone to know a fraction of the university's population.

 

[DreamAgain]

Yeah, it's always been my sense that the quality of OLD is inferior not just in terms of the women, but in terms of the relationships themselves. I think there's research coming out that's starting to lend credence to that, finally. Anecdotally, it's always been pretty apparent to me that women devalue men that emerge from their phones.

I only look for one exception on OLD, and that is a girl who moved to a new city and doesn't have established social contacts.

Otherwise, my guard is immediately on red alert why she is not locked up. There are a few possibilities, only two are acceptable:

1) She is highly intelligent and cannot find a man who she is intellectually compatible with in real life, since remember populations are normally distributed. So, she must widen her net to see if this can be done.

2) She is highly religious, I have ran into some of these on OLD as devout christians which is kind of ironic considering dating apps are used mostly for hooking up, but again because she is in the extreme minority she must widen her net with all means possible.

Otherwise, the questions must be asked:

If this girl is highly desirable why has she not leveraged her youth and beauty throughout her life to be in a relationship already? Why is she fishing online?

Probably something is wrong, and she has some red flags that cannot be ignored that she is trying to keep hidden.

 

[patb]

I only look for one exception on OLD, and that is a girl who moved to a new city and doesn't have established social contacts.

Otherwise, my guard is immediately on red alert why she is not locked up. There are a few possibilities, only two are acceptable:

1) She is highly intelligent and cannot find a man who she is intellectually compatible with in real life, since remember populations are normally distributed. So, she must widen her net to see if this can be done.

2) She is highly religious, I have ran into some of these on OLD as devout christians which is kind of ironic considering dating apps are used mostly for hooking up, but again because she is in the extreme minority she must widen her net with all means possible.

Otherwise, the questions must be asked:

If this girl is highly desirable why has she not leveraged her youth and beauty throughout her life to be in a relationship already? Why is she fishing online?

Probably something is wrong, and she has some red flags that cannot be ignored that she is trying to keep hidden.

I'd agree with this. In sheer physical terms, the best way to get a hidden gem is to take a chance on a girl that doesn't know/care how to take good pictures. It's paid off before, but you'll get SIFed most of the time.

 

[DreamAgain]

People on here act like there's 2 type of women.

1. NEETs/retail workers
2. High powered career women

I like to date women in between those 2 extremes. I like women with some sort of job that's enough for them to afford not to live with their parents but not a job that's so demanding that they are career obsessed. I perceive that dental hygienist is an example of this type of job. It pays a decent salary but it's not overly demanding. Also, that job doesn't require a bachelor's degree, it's a trade certification. It's one of the best jobs for women who don't want to go to college.

I also like women's with bachelor's degrees from non-elite schools who aren't mid to upper levels managers. They might be sales reps or other basic kind of workers with 40 hour a week jobs.



That's true. There are some flaws in that. It shows longevity of relationships as a relationship that formed in college in 2003 that was still active in 2017 had 14 years of longevity. Longevity does not equal quality though. Yes, there are flaws with that data set by design.



Here are examples of schools and their most common target major metro for their alumni.

University of Colorado and Colorado State -- Denver
University of Arizona -- Phoenix
University of Georgia -- Atlanta
Texas A&M/Texas Tech -- Dallas or Houston
Any school in a smaller town in the New England region -- Boston



If you don't bring your college era girlfriend to your first post college city, you're likely looking at the swipe app, social media DM, or approaching strangers path. All those paths are more challenging than meeting in college and social circle.

Dental hygienist is not a bad profession, it certainly wouldnt be a dealbreaker by any means.

I agree that generally if a woman is a manager that is a bad sign. Likely she is bossy and high strung. I would date a lawyer or a doctor potentially but it depends on the rest of her personality. I would date women in engineering or IT but these are very rare.

Yes that school -> city mapping looks accurate. But cold approaching through common events at these cities is a good place to meet people organically.

For instance, the city that Im in, during college football season, has very large numbers of alumni congregate to watch games. This I would consider a more warm approach scenario of hundreds of potentially new contacts.

 

[Dr.Suave]

I’ve been in situations where I did not know a woman’s real past years into knowing them.

Yes, NAWALT, all of us want to believe our girl is the outlier, but the sad truth is that they so very rarely are. Once men realize that a vast majority of women omit, withhold and revise truth or outright lie, the easier it’ll be for them.

Women can make any of the most deadly PUA’s look like schoolboys. They are born with this ability, it’s a genetic survival adaptation.

Ya’ll keep your fantasy alive for as long as possible, then you’ll get wrecked.

Remember I told you so when it occurs to you, because it’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when.

Well she wasnt lying about her sexual history, I can tell you that much. If she´s putting on a facade about something else, we will see.

 

[SW15]

For instance, the city that Im in, during college football season, has very large numbers of alumni congregate to watch games. This I would consider a more warm approach scenario of hundreds of potentially new contacts.

Alumni events for your school are decent for finding dates. However, the worst type of alumni event in my experience are the college football/college basketball game watching events. People are way too distracted by the sportsball game to make meaningful connections. The better alumni events are the ones not centered around watching sports. Approaching women at any alumni event is more of a warm approach and more likely to be a better approach than a mall, park, or grocery store approach or any sort of swipe app effort.

But cold approaching through common events at these cities is a good place to meet people organically.

What are other types of common events besides alumni events? I've probably been to them. Don't include a "singles mixer" as a common event. Structured singles events are complete shiit.

Are Structured Singles Events a Waste of Time?

Mostly every unattached person has dealt with this. The potential invitation to a "singles event" or "singles mixer". It is a chance for unattached people to meet. It's not a general night out at a bar, which has unattached people interspersed with attached people. Everyone here is unattached by...

www.sosuave.net

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Well she wasnt lying about her sexual history, I can tell you that much. If she´s putting on a facade about something else, we will see.

And you know this HOW?

Seriously man, you may have a unicorn on your hands but the odds are VERY LOW.

She’s waaaaaaaaaaay better at this game from birth than you ever will be, whether or not she is a virgin or not.

 

[DreamAgain]

And you know this HOW?

Ignorance is bliss to some people.

 

[Dr.Suave]

And you know this HOW?

Oh come on bro. You have taken v-cards before havent you? After more than a few you can tell the ones that are possibly lying from the ones that definetly arent. I dont see the point of going into bloody details, some of those details are literally bloody.

Also, If memory serves me right, you once said something along the lines of "Remember he is from Mexico, if someone has a better chance of finding a virgin, its him. He should do whatever he wants".

" Seriously man, you may have a unicorn on your hands but the odds are VERY LOW. " I agree with this. It was dumb luck.

 

[DreamAgain]

Alumni events for your school are decent for finding dates. However, the worst type of alumni event in my experience are the college football/college basketball game watching events. People are way too distracted by the sportsball game to make meaningful connections. The better alumni events are the ones not centered around watching sports. Approaching women at any alumni event is more of a warm approach and more likely to be a better approach than a mall, park, or grocery store approach or any sort of swipe app effort.



What are other types of common events besides alumni events? I've probably been to them. Don't include a "singles mixer" as a common event. Structured singles events are complete shiit.

Are Structured Singles Events a Waste of Time?

Mostly every unattached person has dealt with this. The potential invitation to a "singles event" or "singles mixer". It is a chance for unattached people to meet. It's not a general night out at a bar, which has unattached people interspersed with attached people. Everyone here is unattached by...

www.sosuave.net

Well to be honest there are not many other options in the USA.

US social life is extremely, extremely tied to your educational history and your work history. Dating from work contacts or alumni from your university is the best way to find a long term girlfriend and potential wife.


Sports leagues, intramurals, the ratios are not in your favor here, you've written about this and already know so there is no need to further explain it.

 

[DreamAgain]

Where I live, there are a lot of potential attractive single girls who go out to bars. Rooftop bars, outdoor ones by the water, there are candidates.

But, you have to be complicit in the system in order for this to work 99% of the time. Meaning, you must tolerate heavy social media usage, watching pointless shows on various streaming platforms, be willing to travel just for the sake of taking pictures even though she won't admit it, etc.

You must also fit a mold that she is looking for, even if you are good looking. Meaning, you must be into football and brunch, golf as well, and tolerant of dogs. I like dogs but they are a huge responsibility and a nuisance really, it fragments a girls time even more and I grow tired of her mentioning how cute the dog is.

 

[SW15]

Sports leagues, intramurals, the ratios are not in your favor here, you've written about this and already know so there is no need to further explain it.

I've participated in co-ed sports leagues for the purposes of getting my penis wet. Most men in co-ed sports leagues are men looking to get their penises wet from participating in the league. Random intramural/pickup games of a sport are also difficult. I've also written about this on a sport by sport basis before.

Church participation is declining. Also, a lot of churches ban sex not inside of a marriage.

US social life is extremely, extremely tied to your educational history and your work history. Dating from work contacts or alumni from your university is the best way to find a long term girlfriend and potential wife.

Agree that the path you describe is a bit easier than approaching strangers at nightlife venues, approaching strangers at non-bar venues, swipe apps, or social media DMs.

There's only one other channel that hasn't been mentioned on this thread and that's matchmaking services. I don't think matchmaking agencies have a strong track record either.

 

[patb]

Where I live, there are a lot of potential attractive single girls who go out to bars. Rooftop bars, outdoor ones by the water, there are candidates.

But, you have to be complicit in the system in order for this to work 99% of the time. Meaning, you must tolerate heavy social media usage, watching pointless shows on various streaming platforms, be willing to travel just for the sake of taking pictures even though she won't admit it, etc.

You must also fit a mold that she is looking for, even if you are good looking. Meaning, you must be into football and brunch, golf as well, and tolerant of dogs. I like dogs but they are a huge responsibility and a nuisance really, it fragments a girls time even more and I grow tired of her mentioning how cute the dog is.

"Fitting the mold" is another thing that's nebulous but highly under-appreciated, especially for relationships. If you don't fit in, your life outcomes will always be less than the sum of your parts.

 

[patb]

I've participated in co-ed sports leagues for the purposes of getting my penis wet. Most men in co-ed sports leagues are men looking to get their penises wet from participating in the league. Random intramural/pickup games of a sport are also difficult. I've also written about this on a sport by sport basis before.

Church participation is declining. Also, a lot of churches ban sex not inside of a marriage.



Agree that the path you describe is a bit easier than approaching strangers at nightlife venues, approaching strangers at non-bar venues, swipe apps, or social media DMs.

There's only one other channel that hasn't been mentioned on this thread and that's matchmaking services. I don't think matchmaking agencies have a strong track record either.

Never had any success at kickball et al, either (although I was close once -- dropped the ball by getting too drunk).

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

oh yeah you have a finely tuned peen-o-meter, nvm.

Oh come on bro. You have taken v-cards before havent you? After more than a few you can tell the ones that are possibly lying from the ones that definetly arent. I dont see the point of going into bloody details, literally bloody.

Ah yes the finely tuned peen-o-meter. Well Truth be told if you have an above average peen you can bruise cervixes, cause swelling, discomfort and bleeding. Whether or not she was a virgin.

Question everything. Honestly, I hope she is and I wish the both of you the best of luck. Chances are low in general but maybe slightly skewed in your favor.

all we do here is speak the truth and protect our brothers, I’m worried about you and your ego not whether or not she was a virgin.

You’re young sh1t can hurt.

But a guy can at least have some fun poking you in the ribs a little bit:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[SW15]

Never had any success at kickball et al, either (although I was close once -- dropped the ball by getting too drunk).

I have played in kickball and sand volleyball co-ed sports leagues.

Co-ed sports leagues are another social circle type option. It would be fair to call the effort weak social circle game.

It’s pretty difficult to swoop into a co-ed kickball, softball, volleyball, or soccer league & directly arrange dates and get laid. First, there are more men than women in all these leagues. Plenty of men play in co-ed sports leagues like kickball, softball, soccer, and volleyball in order to meet women. Nearly every other guy in these leagues is an unattached guy who is trying to get his penis wet in league because he read some advice article online or in a printed copy of a magazine about doing this.

Yes, it is easier to talk to a woman after a game in a co-ed sports league than it would be to talk to a random woman at the grocery store, mall, or a bar. As a result, many men think that this will be game on easy mode. Most men fail at co-ed sports leagues in terms of getting their penises wet.

 

[AureliusMaximus]

The only real alternative to OLD is School. Other than that, I cannot think of anything remotely close and this is why OLD isn’t going anywhere soon. The other options either have too much friction or too much investment with a high rate of failure. In our time, the sense of community has gone away, so there’s no more meeting your future wife at church, a city event, work, etc.

Work: The workplace has become too competitive to meet your spouse. Flirting with the wrong women can potentially cost you your job. It’s just not worth it todays age.

Bars: Too much investment for high risk. You don’t know if the bar is going to have a decent ratio or not. In addition, you score, but most bar girls are 304s anyways. Some guys like gaming at bars, but it’s not for most guys.

Gym: Combination of shvtting where you eat combined with an unfriendly approach vibe in general. Plus, I go to the gym to workout, not find a girl.

Social Events/Activities- You don’t know if this event is going to have single & attractive women. Plus, you are more than likely going to be doing something that you don’t care about anyway.

Grocery Store/Outside- If you can pull this off then that’s great, but this is extremely difficult for the vast majority of men. No, it’s not this just be a Chad and it’s easy. Cold approaching in these environments takes a special type of person and it’s not easy. This is coming from a guy that’s 6ft 2, in sales, and good looking lol.

In Summary, OLD provides the least friction and requires the lowest investment compared to the other methods except a school environment. Im
Sorry OLD haters, but it’s not going anywhere anytime soon!

This sausage party isn't going to end well..

 

[pipeman84]

And you know this HOW?

Seriously man, you may have a unicorn on your hands but the odds are VERY LOW.

She’s waaaaaaaaaaay better at this game from birth than you ever will be, whether or not she is a virgin or not.

C'mon man. If a girl can hide for a year that she's fvcked other guys and pretend she was a virgin she's either some extremely good actress (very unlikely) or the guy is a chump.
Some guys act tough and mighty and red pilled on this forum, but they are chumps. I was surprised to find this out. Like for instance looking back on his ex-wife and saying there were no red flags during first year of marriage. Yet they hooked up on first date AND she had ex boyfriends (at age 23).

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

I call them how I see them, you can choose to add this to your stream of consciousness or not bro.

When you least expect it you’re gunna get walloped, not matter who you are.

C'mon man. If a girl can hide for a year that she's fvcked other guys and pretend she was a virgin she's either some extremely good actress (very unlikely) or the guy is a chump.
Some guys act tough and mighty and red pilled on this forum, but they are chumps. I was surprised to find this out. Like for instance looking back on his ex-wife and saying there were no red flags during first year of marriage. Yet they hooked up on first date AND she had ex boyfriends (at age 23).

 

[pipeman84]

Yeah well, you claim this just like the other guy said the didn't see no red flags for a year. And I could point out the 2 big red flags just from the info he got after 1-2 dates. Without being there, reading body language, getting the vibe.

I’ve been in situations where I did not know a woman’s real past years into knowing them.

One more thing. You seem to forget that a woman so devious as to keep lying about this one aspect, can't be perfect in all other areas. This deviousness manifests itself in various parts of day to day interaction. Just takes a man with his eyes and ears open.