Never Go on a Date With a Woman Who Demands a Dinner Date

[Pierce Manhammer]

I thought friends don’t bang friend’s exes? Maybe my standards of friendship are too lofty - probably explains why my circle is so small.

I have no interest in being around ”friends” who used to bang my woman…or are banging my ex.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

I thought friends don’t bang friend’s exes? Maybe my standards of friendship are too lofty - probably explains why my circle is so small.

I have no interest in being around ”friends” who used to bang my woman…or are banging my ex.

This happens often in social circles with men that only rely on it.

 

[BeExcellent]

I thought friends don’t bang friend’s exes? Maybe my standards of friendship are too lofty - probably explains why my circle is so small.

I have no interest in being around ”friends” who used to bang my woman…or are banging my ex.

Lol. Two dates with no kissing is not an ex. Seriously. It’s not like it wasn’t legit. I mean I was with that dude 20 years and 3 children. I promise you my first husband would do it all over again.

 

[member160292]

I made the dinner/lunch date mistakes with OLD. Waste of money. One was with an HB9 chick that was going well and I slipped and told her too much and the date went south. Another the date went well, 3 hours but she bought the most expensive item on the lunch menu. Another one bought dinner and kept buying more and more drinks for herself.

Good thing you stumbled on here, brother. Investing your time and money in those chicks will only lead you down a path of regret

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

This is common in the SF Bay Area, and in the technology field in general. I’ve built and managed relatively large teams of sysadmins and engineers and these guys for some reason do end up in situations like this. In the coastal cities where I have managed said teams even an 8 50-something female garners this type of attention from young men. The guys generally cannot bat at the same level in their own or younger age groups in general and there is a shortage of good looking women.

Does not matter if he’s not a Chad and she’s not HB, it’s irrelevant. What matters here is that if these two are happy with one another that’s all that matters.

An attractive man should be dating a much younger woman than 8 years older than himself. This is the sign of a dysfunctional dating market.

 

[SW15]

An attractive man should be dating a much younger woman than 8 years older than himself. This is the sign of a dysfunctional dating market.

This is common in the SF Bay Area, and in the technology field in general. I’ve built and managed relatively large teams of sysadmins and engineers and these guys for some reason do end up in situations like this. In the coastal cities where I have managed said teams even an 8 50-something female garners this type of attention from young men. The guys generally cannot bat at the same level in their own or younger age groups in general and there is a shortage of good looking women.

@Pierce.Manhammer proves @MatureDJ 's point. The SF Bay Area is one of the worst mating environments in the United States.

In most US cities since around the year 2000, there has been a male surplus under ages 45-50. Male surpluses do lead to lower status men chasing older women.

I made the dinner/lunch date mistakes with OLD. Waste of money. One was with an HB9 chick that was going well and I slipped and told her too much and the date went south. Another the date went well, 3 hours but she bought the most expensive item on the lunch menu. Another one bought dinner and kept buying more and more drinks for herself.

Lunch dates are just as bad as dinner dates in restaurants. Doing a lunch or dinner first date in a restaurant with a woman when you arranged the date via technology (swipe app or social media DM) is a bad idea.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

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I absolutely agree, the moment I can I will eject. It became so blatantly clear for me starting in 2015 when I was traveling for business a lot to several metro locations across the US.

When I was in some locations I was approached several times a day/night by what I considered to be VERY DESIRABLE women years my junior. Tinder lit up like a Christmas tree for me as well, I had a date OR TWO every night I spent out of town. Whereas here, in this shyte hole I struggled/d to get even one high quality match a month.

Is what it is.

One thing is for sure if you can maintain a harem here in the 6-7 range you’re a legend and an envy.

@Pierce.Manhammer proves @MatureDJ 's point. The SF Bay Area is one of the worst mating environments in the United States.

In most US cities since around the year 2000, there has been a male surplus under ages 45-50. Male surpluses do lead to lower status men chasing older women.



Lunch dates are just as bad as dinner dates in restaurants. Doing a lunch or dinner first date in a restaurant with a woman when you arranged the date via technology (swipe app or social media DM) is a bad idea.

@Pierce.Manhammer proves @MatureDJ 's point. The SF Bay Area is one of the worst mating environments in the United States.

In most US cities since around the year 2000, there has been a male surplus under ages 45-50. Male surpluses do lead to lower status men chasing older women.



Lunch dates are just as bad as dinner dates in restaurants. Doing a lunch or dinner first date in a restaurant with a woman when you arranged the date via technology (swipe app or social media DM) is a bad idea.

 

[kavi]

Just wanted to add.

This is the reason why I recommend men building social circles to meet women.

Try to engage with and get the woman to develop feelings for you and demonstrate your value BEFORE asking her out on a date.

I always take this approach with women and steer clear of 'dating'.

Dating sucks.

Going on a 'Date' with a woman you dont know very well just sucks and in a way demonstrates low-value for both parties. In a dating situation both parties are communicating "I need to find a partner so that is why I am here". This subtle undertone causes women to find ways to 'get something' out of to compensate for the negative feeling of actually being in the dating 'market'. Women (and men) are very guarded in a dating environment, OLD, Speeddating, going on dates etc cos without FEELINGS and EMOTIONS and STORYLINE already developed it just becomes about ego, rejection, winning etc.

My personal experiences have always been way superior when the interaction is more 'natural' ie me and the woman are there for any other reason than dating/finding a partner and often it is some kind of social circle, activity, work etc.

Look for ways that you can get the woman to develop feelings, attraction and storyline BEFORE asking for anything (date, number etc).

You wont run into these issues at all if there is something there before you go out, and then cos the feelings are already there the predeveloped storyline will be the main thing driving the interaction so the woman wont care about how expensive the date is, what job you have etc cos FEELINGS and STORYLINE trump pretty much everything else in romantic interactions for women.

I think even cold-approach is better than a 'cold-date' cos in a single cold-approach you can blow a girl away and affect her feelings and emotions in a way you cannot in a cold-date. The 'dating' aspect then becomes much easier if she already has feelings and sees this as something she wants to continue, and it is no longer about the venue or money spent.

 

[SW15]

@SW15 my friend, they are actually worse simps lol. White collar guys usually turn in to simps when they get married and start giving out that defeated husband within vibe in 2-5 years. We are just pickier about who we settle down with initially. Some of the worst simps I saw were in the factories or my blue collar/military friends spending every hard-earned Overtime penny on their 304 girls that cheats on them while they are at work lol. These tough blue-collar guys are basically the human versions of Pit Bulls. Tough and aggressive on the outside, but a complete loyal simp to his master. My first job after college was in Supply Chain in a factory and I witnessed it lol. Plus, I saw all of those rough neck oil guys making 100k straight out of HS lose all of their money buying their Crystal Gf's luxury items while she cheated on him with Brad when he was out on the field lol. Last, the blue-collar guys get more girls because they have more girls to go after plain and simple. The blue-collar guy can flaunt game at Crystal at the Mcdonalds register or his HS social circle network since he never left his hometown while the white collar guy has to rely off dating apps or a new social circle in his new city he just moved to.

I learned something with this post. I thought simping was worse with white collar men than blue collar men. To me, white collar men seem like bigger pansies than blue collar men. In blue collar work environments, you can talk about fuccking women out in the open. Try that in white collar. The feminist HR Commissar will be paying you a visit quickly.

There's nothing stopping a white collar guy from hitting on a woman working at a McDonald's or Wendy's cash register. I would say that most white collar guys are too big of pansies to do that, either indoors or through the drive thru.

A lot of social circle game comes down to geographical constancy. A lot of blue collar men have social circles with low wage service sector women in it. Both the men and the women in those social circles went to K-12 together and then stayed in the same small-ish town to mid-size cities. The men who went to college often went to a college not in the same area as K-12 and then after college went to a different state. There's a case to me that the relocations weaken social circles. My multiple childhood and adulthood relocations absolutely destroyed my chances of a social circle. Transplanted adults in big cities often form social circles with other transplanted adults, and those circles are generally weaker. I'm 39 now and have been in the same city since age 28. I found friends in my current city, but never a viable social circle for arranging dates though certain men in my social circle got girlfriends/wives from the well of the circle. If you talked to those men in my friendship orbit, they'd call the social circle viable, but I wouldn't. They got their one LTR and have retired for the moment, but wait until a divorce happens.

This is the reason why I recommend men building social circles to meet women.

Try to engage with and get the woman to develop feelings for you and demonstrate your value BEFORE asking her out on a date.

My personal experiences have always been way superior when the interaction is more 'natural' ie me and the woman are there for any other reason than dating/finding a partner and often it is some kind of social circle, activity, work etc.

Look for ways that you can get the woman to develop feelings, attraction and storyline BEFORE asking for anything (date, number etc).

In thinking about my experiences with social circle, approaching strangers, and using dating website/swipe apps, I think social circle is best for the middle tier men. Think the 35th to 75th percentile of men. It's also better for LTRs and possibly LTRs leading to marriage. Social circles do tend to get pissed if you trade out women every 2 years over a 10 year period. In fact, the social circle will likely cut you off after the 2nd time you do this.

As I mentioned above, a lot of social circle comes down to geographical constancy and parents keeping a male in the same area in the K-12 years. I've know a few beta males who have wives mostly due to their social circle of lifelong geographical constancy. These men are close to our ages @kavi.

Regular relocations tend to weaken social circles and at a certain point in adulthood, building a social circle isn't all that feasible.

Dating sucks.

Going on a 'Date' with a woman you dont know very well just sucks and in a way demonstrates low-value for both parties. In a dating situation both parties are communicating "I need to find a partner so that is why I am here". This subtle undertone causes women to find ways to 'get something' out of to compensate for the negative feeling of actually being in the dating 'market'. Women (and men) are very guarded in a dating environment, OLD, Speeddating, going on dates etc cos without FEELINGS and EMOTIONS and STORYLINE already developed it just becomes about ego, rejection, winning etc.

I think even cold-approach is better than a 'cold-date' cos in a single cold-approach you can blow a girl away and affect her feelings and emotions in a way you cannot in a cold-date. The 'dating' aspect then becomes much easier if she already has feelings and sees this as something she wants to continue, and it is no longer about the venue or money spent.

I agree that dating sucks. Dating and relational trauma was one reason that I was in therapy for multiple years. Your phrase of "low value for both parties" was so well said.

I think what you said about approaching stangers is more relevant in non-bar venues than at the bars. By showing up at a bar, you are a communicating a single status and a need to find a mating partner. That is lower status than meeting randomly at a grocery store or park as an example of a non-bar venue. Any stranger approach scenario is better than any swipe app or social media DM scenario.

It's just best not to go on a first date, dinner date with someone from a swipe app, social media DM, or random stranger approach. You might be able to get away with dinner from a strongly vetted social circle introduction. I'd say less so from a weak social circle setting such as a co-ed sports league.

 

[RangerMIke]

Don't date any woman that demands ANYTHING she isn't paying for. If a woman isn't willing to go along with what you have planned and are willing to pay for, go find one that will. If she wants to do something, she can plan it and pay for it. Anyone that demands anything that they are not working for has narcissistic entitled tendencies.... people like this have no manners and are not any fun.

 

[thermodynamic]

I made the dinner/lunch date mistakes with OLD. Waste of money. One was with an HB9 chick that was going well and I slipped and told her too much and the date went south. Another the date went well, 3 hours but she bought the most expensive item on the lunch menu. Another one bought dinner and kept buying more and more drinks for herself.

Did you consider telling her to stop buying so much stuff? If you are paying, after all. Let her call you cheap.


I have a better idea - never offer a dinner date to a woman to begin with. This implies too readily you are ready for something serious, motivating her to not give it up as easy. Keep her wondering if you are interested in something more or just there to hit.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Maybe it’s the women I choose to go out with, but they always ask me to order the drinks and food. Maybe it’s because they know I’m a epicurean, maybe because I rarely eat out at boring places, maybe it’s because they’re naturally submissive, and I select for that trait subconsciously. The good news is that I rarely fail
To get things they do not like.

Did you consider telling her to stop buying so much stuff? If you are paying, after all. Let her call you cheap.


I have a better idea - never offer a dinner date to a woman to begin with. This implies too readily you are ready for something serious, motivating her to not give it up as easy. Keep her wondering if you are interested in something more or just there to hit.

 

[SW15]

I have a better idea - never offer a dinner date to a woman to begin with. This implies too readily you are ready for something serious, motivating her to not give it up as easy. Keep her wondering if you are interested in something more or just there to hit.

Maybe it’s the women I choose to go out with, but they always ask me to order the drinks and food. Maybe it’s because they know I’m a epicurean, maybe because I rarely eat out at boring places, maybe it’s because they’re naturally submissive, and I select for that trait subconsciously. The good news is that I rarely fail

I'm not even a big fan of dinner dates in restaurants after I've had sex in a relationship. It's much cheaper to buy groceries and eat at home. It's even cheaper to buy groceries at Whole Foods (Whole Paycheck!) than eat in restaurants. In many grocery stores, I can buy better quality ingredients than the ones most sit down restaurants use. I am a good cook with an apartment with a spacious dining room and a nice dining room table. Why bother to eat out? Additionally, my bedroom is closer to the dining room when I eat at home with a woman vs. in a restaurant.

Last week, one of my male friends mentioned a restaurant in my city to me. This male friend once lived in my city but has moved away. I had never been to the restaurant. It's a restaurant someone would go to with an established girlfriend or a wife. That restaurant might get some business from early stage daters, but it would be a small percentage. He was surprised I'd never been to that restaurant. I explained what I explained above. I don't do dinner dates in restaurants prior to sex and I cook most of my meals, even for girlfriends. On occasions when I don't feel like cooking, I will have something delivered to my apartment and eat it in my dining room. I've been doing thngs this way for years.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Yep I cook as well and fairly well. Most chicks will NOT come over for a meal first date. Some do. I do enjoy showing off in the kitchen and cook for all my established acquaintances.

 

[SW15]

Yep I cook as well and fairly well. Most chicks will NOT come over for a meal first date. Some do. I do enjoy showing off in the kitchen and cook for all my established acquaintances.

This is why it's difficult to cut the bars out of the attraction-seduction equation. You can avoid bars for initial approaches but you'll likely need to have a date in a bar unless you want to do a dinner date. Additionally, you might need an indoor or outdoor activity date or two before the home dinner date.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

It really depends on their level of interest, the delta in smv, how you’ve presented yourself to them, and how much confidence you are capable of engendering.

It has happened, and if she’s of high enough value you just play it cool, be fun, make it fun, have them be your sous, gives you a good way to display command, has plenty of kino opportunities (because most people don’t know how to cook) and displays beta traits women need (cooking). The other thing that helps is to know your classic ****tails and have a discrete selection of nice liquor and mixers. A nice sezerac, Manhattan, Negroni, French 75 many will never have tried, it’s a big DHV.

You also need to have a clean, well organized and well appointed abode.

Anyway, couldn’t agree more…

This is why it's difficult to cut the bars out of the attraction-seduction equation. You can avoid bars for initial approaches but you'll likely need to have a date in a bar unless you want to do a dinner date. Additionally, you might need an indoor or outdoor activity date or two before the home dinner date.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

Just took a girl out to one of those fancy Japanese Hibachi places and the night ended with a lot of sex on my couch, bed, and floor. I swear my couch sees more action than my bed.

 

[SW15]

Just took a girl out to one of those fancy Japanese Hibachi places and the night ended with a lot of sex on my couch, bed, and floor. I swear my couch sees more action than my bed.

Have you ever had sex with a Japanese woman after eating sushi in a restaurant?

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

Have you ever had sex with a Japanese woman after eating sushi in a restaurant?

I’ve only been with one Japanese girl there’s was another one that was half Norwegian but she was a huge sjw

 

[bat soup]

Kornelija Slunjski (KokoBeaute on social media) lays in this video why she refuses all coffee dates, all walk in the park dates, and all drinks date.

She is a Croatian who has lived in New York City and now lives in Miami. She won't accept any date other than a dinner date in a restaurant for a first date. She says she won't accept a coffee date because she has a Nespresso machine in her home that makes coffee. If we use her rationale, she also has a microwave, stove, and oven in her home too and those appliances can be used to make food at home. She has no reason to demand a dinner date using the Nespresso machine logic. It's amazing that she doesn't perceive that logical extension.

Anyway, dinner dates in restaurants stink for so many reasons. I can't believe in 2022 that there are still men suggesting them as first dates. That's especially bad when the date is arranged via swipe app or DM on social media, and that's how most dates get arranged now. You're spending a lot of time and money with someone who you know nothing about and have no in-person basis of interacting.

It is fortunate that most women don't follow KokoBeaute's advice and only consider dinner dates as the only acceptable first date.

I think a lot of Kornelija's first dates have been arranged through in-person means.

When a woman likes you, she won't make all of these stupid demands.

This is what women do when they're just out for a free meal.