Most guys getting into pickup need to get their $hit together.

[Jesse Pinkman]

Maybe I am partially agreeing with @Fruitbat here (but not completely) and @nicksaiz65 and his question inspired this thread I almost didn't want to post. On the other hand, I feel like this had to be posted even if it might not apply to most guys on here. I have been doing pickup on and off for a few years and in the past year, got back into the community due to my social circle being dispersed after the pandemic. Whether it is from a few years ago or with wings I meet now, I have to call out the elephant in the room.

Majority of the guys doing pickup in major cities, or in general, do not have their $hit together.

I was asked by @nicksaiz65 how these pickup guys afford to live in such major cities. Well, most of the times these guys are living with parents, siblings, or relatives in the outer areas of the cities and then making long commutes into the city solely for game. Let me talk to you about some extreme examples of wings I met:

1. Guy in his 40s, still in "grad school", lived with aunt in Queens, and then commuted to Manhattan on weekends to do nightgame. Went to bars, wouldn't drink, and collected numbers that turned to nothing.

2. Guy in his mid-30s, lives an hour+ away with his cousin, and makes long drives past midnight to nightclubs to "game" and drives back empty handed 5 AM in the morning.

Now those are two extreme examples and I cut off contact with both. Neither guy got laid but was super invested into pickup and all the theories. At some point, someone has to tell these dudes to get their priorities straight. Now I know guys who talk to me about money not mattering will bring up the DJ at a strip club or the club promoter who sleeps on the friend's couch. Alright, well those guys actually geared their entire life towards getting laid instead of pathetically halfa$$ing it. Most of all, even though the guys I brought up were extreme examples, this is a lot more common than you think with dudes who do pickup and get into it.

It is so sad to see because these guys are wasting dollars and hours only to go out and talk to girls while their logistics and station in life make any fruitful relationship or even regular lays highly improbable.

Now I am not knocking guys who are financially struggling here, I understand.

Some guy living with his mom at 30 but trying to go all in on his finances, career and education, I get. I get the guy who has fallen on hard times and has to move back in with the folks but is getting his life together now, more power to that guy. What I am going after are the guys who are in this situation but are all in on the pickup community, spamming up pickup boards and chats with theory, going out to run nightgame every weekend, and have little to show for it. Meanwhile, the rest of their life is falling apart. These are the guys who cannot get their priorities straight.

"Come on Pinkman, the economy is tough and every man needs to get his d1ck wet."

Alright I'll entertain both. Maybe the economy is tough but millions of young people out there, despite the doomsday rhetoric, are making it happen in their careers. Tons of people are applying themselves and getting their careers straight first. As for the romance part, I am not saying that these men should avoid talking to women. I am saying that these men are deluded into thinking that as someone that can barely afford to live on their own in the outskirts of town, that they can somehow make long commutes and be the Hugh Hefner they dream of. These guys need to be snapped out of this nonsense for their own good! Most of them are better off doing low volume game, learning actual social skills, and not being that annoying spam approach creep.

Worst of all, the red pill, MGTOW, Manosphere, and even PUA celebrates this stuff and encourages this delusion in men.

"Live with your parents at 30, its smart"

"Screw society man, don't get a job, you don't want to be a provider"

Nonsense like this is breeding a generation of weird social outcasts that become the laughing stock of society. Then we wonder why we have instances like the Toronto Mall Fiasco where entire malls are telling people to be weary of PUAs. I am not saying that every guy who lives with his mom at 30 is a loser. What I am saying is that the guy that cannot afford to live on his own is better off getting his career and finances in check first before being that loser that spam approaches teenagers at malls.

Now here is where me and @Fruitbat tend to disagree, once that guy does have his $hit together, THEN he needs to focus on game and invest a few years on it.

You got your career figured out, can live on your own, afford a decent living situation, and all of that. Now, instead of waiting around for women, you go out and truly practice game. Your logistics are better, you are not driving 2+ hours to go to the club and then driving 2+ hours back. You have your $hit figured out and can now focus on actually improving with women which you need to do. While it is not as bad as the spammy PUA that lives with his mom, you do not want to be the typical middle class guy who gets drunk with friends and relies on social circle to marry a 6. Instead, this is where you spend those Saturday afternoons to run some daygame and nights to run some nightgame.

"Oh come on Pinkman, very few men are actually making it bro, you are telling literally 80% of men to opt out of game"

First of all, I never said that the guy who cannot afford to truly live in a major city should be an incel. I said that guy is better off getting his $hit together and perhaps focusing more on quality in his local area. Maybe his laycount is lower than 50 for the year but he can have five quality girls in a year who give him a good time for the time being.

However, my point is that exactly though. It is time to tell guys that very few men actually have the circumstances and resources to be that big city playboy with 100+ lays a year and that is okay. Pickup filled the minds of normal guys with lies that they can all live with their moms an hour outside the city and somehow commute to go clubbing after an hour long drive and still pull models because "it's all about game bro!".

It's time to get real. Most men would be happy to date a 7 (above average looking girl).

Most men would give an arm and a leg to sleep with 10+ girls who are above average looking in a given year.

That is completely okay.

It is time to stop selling obvious lies that some random guy who barely has his $hit together can get a model every month because he has "game".

 

[SW15]

Majority of the guys doing pickup in major cities, or in general, do not have their $hit together.

The majority of men do not have their shiit together. There have been various points in my own time where I didn't have my shiit together. I still needed to get laid. In a good portion of those points of time, I had my own place. There have been certain points in my time where I was either dealing with career or personal dramas.

"Come on Pinkman, the economy is tough and every man needs to get his d1ck wet."

Alright I'll entertain both. Maybe the economy is tough but millions of young people out there, despite the doomsday rhetoric, are making it happen in their careers. Tons of people are applying themselves and getting their careers straight first.

As for the romance part, I am not saying that these men should avoid talking to women. I am saying that these men are deluded into thinking that as someone that can barely afford to live on their own in the outskirts of town, that they can somehow make long commutes and be the Hugh Hefner they dream of. These guys need to be snapped out of this nonsense for their own good! Most of them are better off doing low volume game, learning actual social skills, and not being that annoying spam approach creep.

The first sentence was applicable to a lot of men in the 2008-2012 era and again in the 2020-2022 era. My penis and my hormones didn't care in certain period when I had career and personal dramas.

I agree on the idea of low volume game and learning social skills in general.

If men have long drought periods, they don't feel good about themselves.

my point is that exactly though. It is time to tell guys that very few men actually have the circumstances and resources to be that big city playboy with 100+ lays a year and that is okay. Pickup filled the minds of normal guys with lies that they can all live with their moms an hour outside the city and somehow commute to go clubbing after an hour long drive and still pull models because "it's all about game bro!".

I don't know if a lot of guys get into the seduction lifestyle for the 100 notch count years. 100 notch count in a year is a highly unrealistic expectation, even in years when there hasn't been a global pandemic going on. I agree that setting reasonable expectations is important.

It's time to get real. Most men would be happy to date a 7 (above average looking girl).

Most men would give an arm and a leg to sleep with 10+ girls who are above average looking in a given year.

It is time to stop selling obvious lies that some random guy who barely has his $hit together can get a model every month because he has "game".

I think a lot of men get into pickup in order to get an extended relationship with a 7. That would be a good outcome for a lot of men.

You got your career figured out, can live on your own, afford a decent living situation, and all of that....you do not want to be the typical middle class guy who gets drunk with friends and relies on social circle to marry a 6. Instead, this is where you spend those Saturday afternoons to run some daygame and nights to run some nightgame.

It can often take years to get a good situation in life and be well positioned for success as a seducer. For some men, by the time that happens (late 20s-30s), a lot of his social circle will already be in a different place in life than where he is. A lot of his social circle will consist of men who have one or more of the following lifestyle incompatibilities with him....

• Cohabiting with girlfriend
• Married
• Have a house in the suburbs
• Have pet(s)
• Have children or have a pregnant girlfriend/wife

For men with social circle connections and established friends with different lifestyles, it presents a tough situation. Do you abandon some of your long term friends because their life path is different from yours? To some degree, that choice is made for you as married men living the typical suburban lifestyle tend to abandon their friends not in the same place as they are. It can be tough for single men in their 30s to make new friends in a similar place in life. A lot of single men in their 30s with their shiit together might end up as lone wolf sigma male types doing non-bar approaching. Non-bar approaching doesn't require a wingman and is suitable as a solo effort.

 

[devilkingx2]

I think it's a balancing act between the fact that you need to have your life together (for yourself and not just for girls of course; but also it's basically a requirement for decent girls)

And also the fact that you still need to live life and enjoy yourself too, broke and lonely is worse than just one or the other. People need to find the proper balance that works for them and not live their lives on any insane extremes.

Also the average income in most neighborhoods of Manhattan is like $100,000. You need to be a millionaire to live in the heart of the city.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

When I was struggling in college/early post graduation, I was miserable, bitter, and hopeless. Now that I can get some action at least once a month minimum, I’m a better person. However, too much pvssy can harm your work ethic and life.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Unless guys are in the top 1-2% of either looks or game, if they don't have their sh!t together they will struggle.

However, to illustrate how powerful game is, there was a homeless guy who was decent looking, I believe he had decent height(around 6'0") who used to go out to clubs and pick up women and they would take him home...he would bang them out, stay for the night, shower, eat breakfast and then leave in the morning. This was how he stayed off the streets. He would do this repeatedly and would sometimes have multiple women inviting him over to their places between new women he met and the ones he already fvcked. And these were not trash women, he posted pics(with eyes blacked out) and many were successful women...some doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. All of them were good looking.

Obviously not saying to try and replicate this but it just goes to show how powerful game can be with women.

What I am saying that if a homeless guy can do this, so can you...he learned and perfected game because his back was to the wall and he saw no other options. It is amazing when people are forced into sink or swim situations how often they swim when there are no other options. Figure out what your sink or swim reason is and then throw yourself into the deep end.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

Unless guys are in the top 1-2% of either looks or game, if they don't have their sh!t together they will struggle.

I feel like it's either top or bottom heavy.

We obviously know how the top percent of men can get laid, but here's why it's also easier for guys without their shvt together too. The guys in the middle are the ones that have it the worst.

A). There's more women to select from with lower standards. A guy without his shvt together can have his pick at a McDonalds worker.
B). You have more time to waste on chasing women, going to clubs, and etc.
C). You can spend more time being Mr. Fun while a middle class guy has to worry about his career.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I feel like it's either top or bottom heavy.

We obviously know how the top percent of men can get laid, but here's why it's also easier for guys without their shvt together too. The guys in the middle are the ones that have it the worst.

A). There's more women to select from with lower standards. A guy without his shvt together can have his pick at a McDonalds worker.
B). You have more time to waste on chasing women, going to clubs, and etc.
C). You can spend more time being Mr. Fun while a middle class guy has to worry about his career.

The crazy part most guys don't understand is that if they just would only focus on women that they are attracted to and not the meh ones they settle for, they would likely do much better than they think is possible.

There will almost ALWAYS be hot women that find you attractive out there for whatever reason. It's your job to just go find them.

I am not going to lie...I have had a few really hot women that have been crazy about me to the point they were almost obsessed and I wondered why are they so into me when they were constantly getting hit on by much better looking guys? One of them told me she just liked my vibe and felt our chemistry was amazing and just loved being around me because of how I made her feel and then said even if I was an ugly guy(which I am not) it wouldn't have mattered to her once she interacted with me...

My thoughts are you still have to have some minimum level of looks for each woman, but it's a lot lower than what you might expect. If most guys went through and looked at all the guys in the past a hot woman has date you would almost assuredly find one who was lower on the looks scale.

 

[SW15]

The guys in the middle are the ones that have it the worst.

I can confirm this. The struggle in the middle is real. I have a solid but unspectacular white collar working career & am about a 7 in looks.

 

[DonJuanjr]

A guy without his shvt together can have his pick at a McDonalds worker.

I don't see how, where a woman works is tied in to her value. I don't get any provisioning from her anyways, so it's irrelevant. That Mickey D's worker could be a hb9 that's tiers above some hb6 bitter doctor in terms of value.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Most dudes getting into pickup and going out are not going to be happy with a girlfriend. These guys have unrealistic expectations of getting a high notch count but it is so painful to see because most of the times, they do what I stated in the thread above. Most of these guys just go out way into the city despite living far away but try to get dates from nightlife, dates that amount to nothing. I mean it is really sad to see. My point being, guys really need to focus on getting their career/business in order first before they can truly go all in on pickup.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I don't see how, where a woman works is tied in to her value. I don't get any provisioning from her anyways, so it's irrelevant. That Mickey D's worker could be a hb9 that's tiers above some hb6 bitter doctor in terms of value.

Most doctors are banging at least a few good looking nurses on the side in addition to their GF or wives.

 

[DonJuanjr]

Most doctors are banging at least a few good looking nurses on the side in addition to their GF or wives.

I'm not gay, so I was talking about female doctors.

 

[devilkingx2]

I don't see how, where a woman works is tied in to her value. I don't get any provisioning from her anyways, so it's irrelevant. That Mickey D's worker could be a hb9 that's tiers above some hb6 bitter doctor in terms of value.

A woman's job can affect her value in several ways:

Working 20 hours a week as a bartender vs. 60 hours as a software developer

Chef, dancer or stylist whose job skills will enhance her sexiness vs. a cutthroat profession like lawyer or corporate executive

If she makes a lot of money you'll have to spend less while still doing nice things and you'll get way better gifts.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

I think it's a balancing act between the fact that you need to have your life together (for yourself and not just for girls of course; but also it's basically a requirement for decent girls)

And also the fact that you still need to live life and enjoy yourself too, broke and lonely is worse than just one or the other. People need to find the proper balance that works for them and not live their lives on any insane extremes.

Also the average income in most neighborhoods of Manhattan is like $100,000. You need to be a millionaire to live in the heart of the city.

No you don't, get roommates and you can do it for even 80k a year. Roommates are very easy to find in Manhattan.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

No you don't, get roommates and you can do it for even 80k a year. Roommates are very easy to find in Manhattan.

Who the fvck wants a roommate when they are 40? If you live somewhere requiring a roommate when you make 80K, I can tell you the problem is where you live not what you make.
Move somewhere less expensive.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

I'm not gay, so I was talking about female doctors.

Best comment on the thread so far. I died.

Most dudes getting into pickup and going out are not going to be happy with a girlfriend. These guys have unrealistic expectations of getting a high notch count but it is so painful to see because most of the times, they do what I stated in the thread above. Most of these guys just go out way into the city despite living far away but try to get dates from nightlife, dates that amount to nothing. I mean it is really sad to see. My point being, guys really need to focus on getting their career/business in order first before they can truly go all in on pickup.

Purpose should always take precedence over women. Dudes should approach but for sport. Waiting until they won the game is going to land them in hot water when a 30 something year old former baddie traps them. Competence comes with time. They got to do their reps.

Purpose over women. Still crush it. Just set priorities. Adjust logistics as best you can.

I had a buddy who lived with his grandfather during grad school. He railed girls in parks or his backyard. Get creative is all those guys need.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Who the fvck wants a roommate when they are 40? If you live somewhere requiring a roommate when you make 80K, I can tell you the problem is where you live not what you make.
Move somewhere less expensive.

Okay 40 is a different story but in your 20s and even early 30s. Any MAJOR city's happening area is going to require you to live with roommates if you make below 150k, that's just a fact of life these days. If you want to get laid a lot and pull regularly, it helps a lot to live in the happening area. Common sense here, good luck pulling a lot when you live in the burbs.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Okay 40 is a different story but in your 20s and even early 30s. Any MAJOR city's happening area is going to require you to live with roommates if you make below 150k, that's just a fact of life these days. If you want to get laid a lot and pull regularly, it helps a lot to live in the happening area. Common sense here, good luck pulling a lot when you live in the burbs.

You don't need to live in a major city to get laid. I live in a smaller city and do just fine. As long as you are in a metro area with a population of over 500K you will be OK.

Would never ever ever in my life move somewhere that requires you to live an hour+ away and commute because it's too expensive to live closer. People act like that's normal. That sh!t isn't normal it's fvcking asinine.

 

[Scars]

More men need to be focusing on wealth and financial growth, for sure. Having "game" is only a small percentage of a much bigger picture. You should strive to be the "whole package". If you want quality women, you have to be a high quality man.

You can still be broke, living with your parents, and get laid though. But it's gonna be bar slvts with 3 baby daddies and a breathalyzer in her car. We attract what we think about the most. So if you're obsessed with getting laid, and only getting laid.. you will get laid eventually. When I was broke that was my only focus. Now that I'm older I focus on my financial situation a lot more. Nobody wants to be 30 and living with their parents bro. That sh!t is hella embarrassing and most girls will ghost you for it. Some super attractive guys can get away with it because of their looks, but they'll never be more than a fvck toy. That's why milfs and hot women will cheat on their husbands with the pool boy. They'll never consider actually dating them because they have nothing to offer other than sex. So I agree to an extent. I think all men should be financially stable and career focus, but it technically is very much possible to get tail while being a loser. I see it everyday, hell even up until about 25 I pretty much was one.

 

[manfrombelow]

For sure!