It’s all about the start

[DonJuanjr]

When it comes to SMV - "you are what you eat."

I don't believe that. Look at Eddie Murphy.. Didn't he get caught with a tranny hooker? He sure as hell was high value at that time.

 

[Velasco]

back story - I initiated a brief conversation with a 26F attorney on messenger about a month ago. It was 6 messages in total and she said she’s always too busy to have any fun

Could you post what these 6 messages were? Seems everywhere here is starting off with what you said after this initial first impression

 

[Barrister]

I don't believe that. Look at Eddie Murphy.. Didn't he get caught with a tranny hooker? He sure as hell was high value at that time.

Eddie Murphy is a celebrity. That has no application to the real world. But you do you.

 

[SH03C]

Of course she doesn't have to be that. Though there's plenty of guys on here that take relatively good care of themselves with fitness, grooming, and social circles that are not easily banging women. For a guy who's been celibate for several years, I think it's best to fvck a woman as soon as possible. Have that chemical/pheromone exchange with a living female, and then go from there. It should raise his confidence, not lower it.

Should mention that I am making great strides. I do hit the gym 3-4 times weekly and get to a nice bar or lounge 3 times each week.

Last Friday I had an interaction with a 9/10 at the bar, even got her number and displayed some pull back to spike her interest. That did work initially, but I ultimately failed when I pivoted the conversation about work and recommended she allow me and my marketing company to help her with her modeling career. I was quite drunk at the time, but next thing she does is loudly speak to my buddy and says “Matt wants me to work for him”. I was surprised she remembered my name tbh but maybe that goes to show I established some interest initially before failing.

The next day I did send a follow up text to she if she wanted to meet for a drink (see attached image). Didn’t get a response and haven’t tried to reach her again.

Making strides but my biggest pain point so far is texting game

 

[DonJuanjr]

Eddie Murphy is a celebrity. That has no application to the real world. But you do you.

Celebs have been shown to not be immune to smv lowering. He got caught with a tranny hooker.... It didn't lower his stock at all. OP can also bang these lower value women in other cities where there's no chance of societal smv influence. Even if it impacted his value.

Let's say you get drunk @Barrister and bang a fat chick. Are you now destined to forever only bang fatties? Is there now a tattoo on your head that says "fattie fvcker"? You can't use the excuse "it doesn't count, I was drunk". It absolutely counts. You stuck your djck in fat pusssy. You say being celibate is better than banging sub par women, but that's your ego talking. You haven't experienced long term celibacy. This rhetoric does guys that are in OP's shoes a disservice.


I will admit though that you are out of my league in terms of being a player, and seducing women. I'll come to you for advice on seduction and game. I just don't believe that a man is what he eats. You haven't had to do it, so that opinion is not from experience.

 

[Barrister]

Celebs have been shown to not be immune to smv lowering. He got caught with a tranny hooker.... It didn't lower his stock at all. OP can also bang these lower value women in other cities where there's no chance of societal smv influence. Even if it impacted his value.

Let's say you get drunk @Barrister and bang a fat chick. Are you now destined to forever only bang fatties? Is there now a tattoo on your head that says "fattie fvcker"? You can't use the excuse "it doesn't count, I was drunk". It absolutely counts. You stuck your djck in fat pusssy. You say being celibate is better than banging sub par women, but that's your ego talking. You haven't experienced long term celibacy. This rhetoric does guys that are in OP's shoes a disservice.


I will admit though that you are out of my league in terms of being a player, and seducing women. I'll come to you for advice on seduction and game. I just don't believe that a man is what he eats. You haven't had to do it, so that opinion is not from experience.

Celebs aren't regular people - this isn't even worth debating.

And me saying banging fatties affects SMV doesn't equal me saying you are "destined to forever only bang fatties." Those are two very different things. I don't mean this to sound rude or snobbish, but you sound very naive if you don't think banging low grade women will impact your success with higher grade women. I have seen it first hand with friends of mine who go dumpster diving. It impacts how they are viewed not only by other women but also by their male peers. Not good.

 

[Velasco]

texting game

No loaded messages, brother. (initiate text+asking out+tease all loaded in one text. It screams fear that she won't want to have a conversation with you). Next time. Just sent an initiated text. If there's interest. THEN see her interest in meeting up. I have an example of doing just that, here.

followed up Saturday night with “Come meet for a drink sometime”

Earlier this evening she replied with “Why would I do that”

Im curious to know what some DJs would respond with here to convincingly get her interest level high enough to meetup

It was 6 messages in total and she said she’s always too busy to have any fun

Because it seems like your too busy to notice that life is just passing you by. Or maybe you do notice it but try to ignore it by burying yourself with more work. Trust me I used to be there. It's no fun lol. Thankfully I did meet a girl a while ago that helped me realize this. All it took was a simple, "eh why not?"

 

[DonJuanjr]

but you sound very naive if you don't think banging low grade women will impact your success with higher grade women. I have seen it first hand with friends of mine who go dumpster diving. It impacts how they are viewed not only by other women but also by their male peers. Not good.

Yeah, witnessed... If OP slump busts in another city, who are the witnesses of his social circle to lower his stock? I slump busted in a city that's almost an hour away from me. With a chick that nobody I know, knows. I would be in a worse off position if I had listened to those that said "don't lower your smv by banging low grade women".

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I’d like to gather a few examples for myself and fellow DJs on how best to turn an initial female response into a meetup.

As some may know I’ve recently concluded a brief OLD experience and am currently years celibate, so naturally I’m looking to take down something soon to break the dry spell.

Some back story - I initiated a brief conversation with a 26F attorney on messenger about a month ago. It was 6 messages in total and she said she’s always too busy to have any fun.

Just Friday I shot off a random message at 2am while a bit inebriated.

I simply said, “Can I ask you a straight forward question?”

She responded shortly after with “What”.

I then replied “Sorry, not you.”

Her response was “Huh”.

I decided not to pursue any further Friday night but followed up Saturday night with “Come meet for a drink sometime”

Earlier this evening she replied with “Why would I do that”

Im curious to know what some DJs would respond with here to convincingly get her interest level high enough to meetup. I have some ideas but would find it to be a good learning experience to gather other insight.

And granted, I do know thus far this interaction is very dull and clearly this isn’t me spitting any type of game. I’m still trying to get through the stressors of dealing with the last failed experience and so my head isn’t completely game ready.

Thanks fellas!

"Because then we can get wildly drunk, catch a midnight flight to Vegas, get married by Elvis, fall madly in love, and then you can divorce me for the house in hawaii and the cats. I get to keep the fleet of ferraris"

You can stop bitching now, OP.

 

[SH03C]

"Because then we can get wildly drunk, catch a midnight flight to Vegas, get married by Elvis, fall madly in love, and then you can divorce me for the house in hawaii and the cats. I get to keep the fleet of ferraris"

You can stop bitching now, OP.

Late to the party but fair.

 

[Velasco]

"Because then we can get wildly drunk, catch a midnight flight to Vegas, get married by Elvis, fall madly in love, and then you can divorce me for the house in hawaii and the cats. I get to keep the fleet of ferraris"

You can stop bitching now, OP

That would either get a "no thanks" or no response at all. Then you'd scream, "low interest"

 

[BillyPilgrim]

That would either get a "no thanks" or no response at all. Then you'd scream, "low interest"

Yeah I know, I was just answering the OP's question.

 

[BeExcellent]

Ok OP so here’s your pivot. You are hitting the gym you are going to a cool lounge and you are interacting with hot women. All good.

I agree that celibate is better than dumpster diving. My playboy friend sometimes dumpster dives because it’s so easy but it tarnishes his reputation to high value hot women because his reputation precedes him and he is considered a douche or a player to the top tier women. Now. He just finds that challenging and takes it to mean he just needs to charm them that much more…and he often succeeds in spite of a chicks negative impression but he is the best I’ve ever seen at text game bar none, and he’s so intelligent and socially adroit that he can deploy those tools at will during a seduction…but then at times he will suddenly decide the gal is not worth it and he’ll stop cold. Either over text or phone or in person. When he does that it almost always results in the woman pursuing him, at least initially. And often he’s truly OUT. Something turned him irrevocably off about the girl.

This is where you can learn to take a page from his playbook. You establish value by NOT pursuing in some cases. Especially with truly hot women who are accustomed to being pawed at, complimented and catered to ad nauseum (which confirms their belief that they are higher value than the man in question…)

The way to stand out is to be unaffected. Be oblivious to their beauty. So what this becomes is a slow play. Patience rules. If you chat with a 9 at the bar you are engaging and chill. You do NOT buy her a drink, you do NOT offer favors, you DO NOT get drunk (drunk is sloppy and no classy woman likes sloppy.) You take her number and you DO NOTHING with it, but you keep going to your spot and chatting with people.

Here’s why you do this. Intrigue is your friend. Mystery is your friend. Being reserved is your friend. Practice these things and you’ll start to notice something. People are naturally curious. People will become curious about you. Let them. If a hot woman departs the bar and you got her number? Smile, say “Enjoy your evening” and go back to your drink or chat with person opposite her.

Here’s what that does. It piques her curiosity. She will wonder about you, why weren’t you EASY like all the other men…why didn’t you worship her too?

And if/when she shows back up you acknowledge her and that’s it. Make her come to you, let her approach or sit next to you. Be patient. Be comfortable company, pleasant and engaging IF she creates proximity. That is her reward for creating proximity you see. It confirms her impression of you as a cool guy. No drink buying no getting drunk no falling all over yourself.

Read this over & over. I have been a sought after woman all my life. The way I described above is exactly how my ex husband appealed to me over flashier better looking men (although he was fit, stylish & attractive-he was reserved). I didn’t know if he liked me or not at first and so it created a certain curiosity about him especially contrasted against all the men blatantly hurling themselves at me at any given time….

Road test the above. If you get a number from a hot chick or something just say something like “I’m often here on Thursday for happy hour. Would be nice to see you…” then smile & shu t up.

Road test it. Cheers

 

[SH03C]

Ok OP so here’s your pivot. You are hitting the gym you are going to a cool lounge and you are interacting with hot women. All good.

I agree that celibate is better than dumpster diving. My playboy friend sometimes dumpster dives because it’s so easy but it tarnishes his reputation to high value hot women because his reputation precedes him and he is considered a douche or a player to the top tier women. Now. He just finds that challenging and takes it to mean he just needs to charm them that much more…and he often succeeds in spite of a chicks negative impression but he is the best I’ve ever seen at text game bar none, and he’s so intelligent and socially adroit that he can deploy those tools at will during a seduction…but then at times he will suddenly decide the gal is not worth it and he’ll stop cold. Either over text or phone or in person. When he does that it almost always results in the woman pursuing him, at least initially. And often he’s truly OUT. Something turned him irrevocably off about the girl.

This is where you can learn to take a page from his playbook. You establish value by NOT pursuing in some cases. Especially with truly hot women who are accustomed to being pawed at, complimented and catered to ad nauseum (which confirms their belief that they are higher value than the man in question…)

The way to stand out is to be unaffected. Be oblivious to their beauty. So what this becomes is a slow play. Patience rules. If you chat with a 9 at the bar you are engaging and chill. You do NOT buy her a drink, you do NOT offer favors, you DO NOT get drunk (drunk is sloppy and no classy woman likes sloppy.) You take her number and you DO NOTHING with it, but you keep going to your spot and chatting with people.

Here’s why you do this. Intrigue is your friend. Mystery is your friend. Being reserved is your friend. Practice these things and you’ll start to notice something. People are naturally curious. People will become curious about you. Let them. If a hot woman departs the bar and you got her number? Smile, say “Enjoy your evening” and go back to your drink or chat with person opposite her.

Here’s what that does. It piques her curiosity. She will wonder about you, why weren’t you EASY like all the other men…why didn’t you worship her too?

And if/when she shows back up you acknowledge her and that’s it. Make her come to you, let her approach or sit next to you. Be patient. Be comfortable company, pleasant and engaging IF she creates proximity. That is her reward for creating proximity you see. It confirms her impression of you as a cool guy. No drink buying no getting drunk no falling all over yourself.

Read this over & over. I have been a sought after woman all my life. The way I described above is exactly how my ex husband appealed to me over flashier better looking men (although he was fit, stylish & attractive-he was reserved). I didn’t know if he liked me or not at first and so it created a certain curiosity about him especially contrasted against all the men blatantly hurling themselves at me at any given time….

Road test the above. If you get a number from a hot chick or something just say something like “I’m often here on Thursday for happy hour. Would be nice to see you…” then smile & shu t up.

Road test it. Cheers

My girl. Best advice I’ve gotten thus far, will screen shot this and keep it for reference. You’ll surely get some credit for any future success.

 

[SH03C]

^^ I don't necessarily disagree with you - intrigue is good, mystery is good, wondering is good! But for a woman who is highly sought after, if a man - a hot man, a high value man - doesn't make some sort of play for her, she's simply going to dismiss him and move on to another man who is equally hot and high value who does show interest by taking her number and actually calling or texting to arrange a date.

Often times a woman has so much abundance she can afford to not be bothered with the man who is "playing it cool," and "keeping her wondering," not to mention she more than likely KNOWS he's doing just that - "playing" it cool. She knows his game very well, she unaffected by it, in fact it might even turn her off.

Speaking personally, the man that is able to pull me, does indicate his interest, it doesn't mean he's gushing all over me, complimenting my beauty or "worshipping me." He's cool, polished in his approach, while at the same time indicating his interest and attraction.

It's about learning balance. Balance between remaining "cool, calm, collected," creating intrigue and mystery while at the same time indicating interest and attraction by taking her number and actually calling and arranging a date.

Unless I misunderstood your post (which is possible), it's not about taking her number and ignoring her. F*ck that. I don't know of any high value, sought after woman who would be "intrigued" by that. Like I said, she knows the game, and it can be a turn off.

That said, I very much agree with bolded. But to the OP, if you took her number, reach out at some point, suggest you meet for drinks. Wait a few days so she wonders, and then when she hears from you, it will be a surprise, and wonder and surprise build attraction.

JMO based on my experience. It's pretty much how all my long term boyfriends pulled me, short term as well.

Good luck!

Great advice also. The ladies seem to pull through here! Much appreciated.

 

[BeExcellent]

^^ I don't necessarily disagree with you - intrigue is good, mystery is good, wondering is good! But for a woman who is highly sought after, if a man - a hot man, a high value man - doesn't make some sort of play for her, she's simply going to dismiss him and move on to another man who is equally hot and high value who does show interest by taking her number and actually calling or texting to arrange a date.

Often times a woman has so much abundance she can afford to not be bothered with the man who is "playing it cool," and "keeping her wondering," not to mention she more than likely KNOWS he's doing just that - "playing" it cool. She knows his game very well, she unaffected by it, in fact it might even turn her off.

Speaking personally, the man that is able to pull me, does indicate his interest, it doesn't mean he's gushing all over me, complimenting my beauty or "worshipping me." He's cool, polished in his approach, while at the same time indicating his interest and attraction.

It's about learning balance. Balance between remaining "cool, calm, collected," creating intrigue and mystery while at the same time indicating interest and attraction by taking her number and actually calling and arranging a date.

Unless I misunderstood your post (which is possible), it's not about taking her number and ignoring her. F*ck that. I don't know of any high value, sought after woman who would be "intrigued" by that. Like I said, she knows the game, and it can be a turn off.

That said, I very much agree with bolded. But to the OP, if you took her number, reach out at some point, suggest you meet for drinks. Wait a few days so she wonders, and then when she hears from you, it will be a surprise, and wonder and surprise build attraction.

JMO based on my experience. It's pretty much how all my long term boyfriends pulled me, short term as well.

Good luck!

I agree. However what our OP is doing is blowing it after a nice conversation. Balance is key however our OP is doing too much, showing too much interest and falling all over himself.

In other words he’s already showing WAY TOO MUCH interest.

Nobody is saying he should be a stuck up arrogant prick. Not at all. Being chill and engaging DOES show interest. Being desperate is just a terrific turn off. So OP must learn restraint. He’s already too much eager beaver and that is running off women.

So for him? Being reserved and learning how to be chill with women is the first lesson. He’s going to naturally show interest. Currently he’s out of balance showing too much.

Some guys who are too aloof and arrogant need the opposite advice…that is to be warmer and more sincere. Our OP must learn restraint first. From there he can calibrate. Right now he’s blowing it out of the water by starting off cool and then before you know it? Bam he does something desperate and/or contrived and it blows the cool impression he was giving at first. He’s got to be congruent so women can trust the interaction.

Just my $0.02.

OP is getting so excited that hot women are giving him the time of day that he’s shooting himself in the foot. If he’s a high value guy what does he care if one chick blows him off or doesn’t make any effort? There’s more beautiful women out there AND there is something to be said for familiarity too. If he’s frequenting a cool place he needs to just practice enjoying being there & how the evening unfolds. Be less goal oriented and more experience oriented. That will translate into ease and ease is naturally attractive. Once he gets that down? From there he can learn how best to get a woman out on a date. But for now he needs to stop going from chill to desperate in 60 seconds.

 

[Velasco]

@catsmeow Seems like your suggesting @BeExcellent's advice works best on insecure girls such as herself. While your advice would be better suited towards a chick that is high value and knows she is like yourself.

Again subtly suggesting @BeExcellent isn't. While posters who know her well, know that she loves to go on and on about how classy + high quality she is.

As a guy, I know both approaches work. Its just feeling the vibe. My ex I know HATES not knowing whether a guy likes her or not (I interviewed her a while back. Maybe I can upload the video here somehow?). And says to just go for it. Like she sees it as pvssy footing around.

Like when I wrote this post. I had in mind this chick I had approached last week (but failed to close). I was trying to get a drink at the bar. And there happen to be this chick that was kinda in my way so we met eyes. But I felt a sort of flirty vibe with her. So I flirted with her a bit. Before I excused myself to get a drink. As I was ordering. She reengaged contact. So there is @BeExcellent's advice working.

"Be patient. Be comfortable company, pleasant and engaging IF she creates proximity. That is her reward for creating proximity".

Did I know beforehand that she was insecure? No lol.

And your advice too. For a chick I did end up closing, I had in mind a specific girl when I was writing this post. It was this french tourist chick who I had thought I caught a fraction of a second her looking at me a certain way. I assumed she was attracted to me, so I went up to her and starting flirting. Putting my hands on her. Being all aggressive and sh1t but she was putting my hands away like not yet....yet she still stayed there with me. Ended up fvcking her in the bathroom minutes later. Did I know she was a "high value chick and knows it? No lol.

Men: Just be in the moment and trust yourself to do the right thing and you'll be alright.

 

[BadBoy89]

She’s rude AF. Why are you pursuing?

This is a classic case of you have no idea how to handle a woman like this. None. Zero.

Sorry so blunt, but you gotta have a mad abundance attitude. She’s above your pay grade in attitude. I know men who could slay her no problem… but they have pvssy on speed dial and could care less what this one thinks.

That ain’t you bud. Find an easier target.

In other words she is toying with you for her own amusement. She’s advanced game. Needs a serious player to knock her down. You are not that dude. Not yet.

Move along.

Wow. The knives are out.

 

[BeExcellent]

Me insecure? Oh now that’s funny.

Look. Beautiful women have seen a mirror. They know they are beautiful. It gets boring, amusing and cringeworthy the way men will simp. I don’t like it and never have. Why would I go out with someone who isn’t accustomed to beautiful women? That’s going to be sophomoric and get old and boring fast. I’d rather be with someone who knows he is a catch just as I know I am. No confident high value woman is going to feel feminine and submissive to a simp.

But that is a different conversation.

 

[BeExcellent]

Wow. The knives are out.

Just blunt. Knives unnecessary lol.