I believe us older guys should stop bullsh1tting the younger ones

[SW15]

My experience has closely reflected the SMV chart that Rollo came up with. I have had far more success in my 30s than I did in my early 20s. A lot of that is just understanding game in general - which I would not say I had a firm grasp from 21-24.

I will disagree that cold approaching "isn't easy" for a guy in his 30s. Sure, you have to expect to not always (perhaps usually not) getting a number from cold approaching. But it is by no means hard to approach women. And no one said women are "clamoring to be your girlfriend" - it is on the man to make the efforts in making that initial approach with most women.

There is also no reason to be a "vagina beggar." If you are a good looking guy, have stayed in shape, and have some social pull you can definitely still pull women in mid-late 20s into your early 40s. I am doing it now at 35 and I have friends in early 40s who are doing as well.

It depends on the definition of difficult. I've spent hours on outdoor trails looking to make approaches but only gettting in 1-2 approaches in a 2 hour approach session outdoors on a weekend after. Pre-pandemic, I've lingered in grocery stores for up to an hour to find maybe 1 approach or sometimes 0. Approaching is not easy. Doing the approach itself is ok but most approach sessions involve a fair amount of lingering and waiting around to find an approach.

The typical guy in his 30s/40s is some guy on Bumble or Hinge looking to get his penis wet with some woman there. Competition is fierce. That's what turns these guys into vagina beggars. The apps are sausage fests but the typical guy has even more difficulty with approaching than I do. I have at least made the approaches. I've made the approaches during the day in non-bar venues while sober. Not a lot of men are able to do that.

Lol. What? I think you're confusing proximity with access. Ya, you won't have hot, young girls that you see everyday in class (proximity) but most college dudes don't have real access to those girls. They have no tangible skillset to convert those girls--tho they may get lucky from time to time.

And, no matter what your age is, there's nothing stopping you from hitting the college bar of your choice--where, ya, some small % of girls won't be into you because of your age, and, ya, the soros/frats will ****block you with some % of the top-shelf, but still possible to do extremely well in those environments. And, ya, smash some of those girls often enough and most of them will want to be your gf. And that's not to mention the 22/23 yo's who are just now settling into their boring ass corporate lifestyles and are in new cities where they don't have tight social circles and are tired of the lames they're meeting on bumble--easy pickings.

Good point on proximity vs. access. When I was in college, I attended a school that could be called "Hot Girl U" and it had a good party scene. I had good proximity. There were top shelf women in my classes. I could walk from class to class across campus and see plenty of hot women. As far as access goes, I knew few big time seducers. Most men on campus at "Hot Girl U" were vagina beggars. Typical beta males/AFCs with little to no access, especially if they weren't in fraternities. I got some poontang while in college despite not being in a fraternity and my notch count from that era was decent. I really had to battle for my notches though, which is how I started reading about game, seduction, and sexual technique. I've continued to put up the notches despite less proximity than I had at "Hot Girl U".

Most men post-college will have better fortune with the 22-25 year olds settling into boring ass corporate lifestyles and are in new cities where their social circles are weak. These are the types at the bars, in co-ed sports leagues, and on swipe apps.

Women absolutely have it tougher as they age. They lose their fertility much quicker than men. This has all sorts of devastating effects on their femininity. Plus, their skin is thinner and is more prone to wrinkles. That's why they tend to age much worse. I see zero reason why a high SMV man in his 40s couldnt easily lock down an attractive women in her late 20s or early 30s.

So what if women have it tougher? Doesn't mean shiit.

The Wall Is Softer Than We Think – Roosh Valizadeh

One popular maxim of the manosphere is the wall. It goes something like this: Once a girl is done riding the **** carousel, she will find herself at an age and lower attractiveness where she can no longer get the alpha male she wants. She will then have no choice but to load up on cats or find a lo

www.rooshv.com

These 30s/40s women have no shortage of men who are interested in them.

I think it's all dependent on context. For example, you have to acknowledge the fact that the "game" is getting harder in general, so what may have been easy 10 years ago won't be easy today, but not because of you, but the state of the game itself. Plus, there is a nostalgic bias. I certainly don't remember 90% - 95% of my rejections.

All that said, I'm only in my early 30s so maybe I just need to wait until I'm 40 before I can speak on this topic, but I have found that each passing year I attract more and more women with increasing age gaps both ways. So, key takeaway is that your YMMV.

Yes, game is getting more difficult. As I get closer to 40, I can remember what game was like when I was in college (2001-05). It was definitely easier to seduce in the 2001-2006 era than after 2010.

My age gaps haven't increased much as time has gone on, but that could be specific to me.

 

[BadBoy89]

It's because you're depressed, mate. Women don't want to be around it. "Girls just wanna have fun" as Madonna would say.

I don’t know about that bro. I had way more girls in my 20s too. I had no idea what game or anything was back then, and girls would stick their tongue down my throat no problem,

Now I look better, I’m richer, best car, best house, more experience, more game than you can imagine, but I’m not 6’1, and some times I can’t get divorced women to call back.

It’s not all about men not having game or not understanding women. When women lose their looks and sexuality, they lose their power and are absolutely ruthless. Brad Pitt couldn‘t handle Angelina, and layman like us are supposed to handle it.

Brutal.

 

[BeExcellent]

I don’t know about that bro. I had way more girls in my 20s too. I had no idea what game or anything was back then, and girls would stick their tongue down my throat no problem,

Now I look better, I’m richer, best car, best house, more experience, more game than you can imagine, but I’m not 6’1, and some times I can’t get divorced women to call back.

It’s not all about men not having game or not understanding women. When women lose their looks and sexuality, they lose their power and are absolutely ruthless. Brad Pitt couldn‘t handle Angelina, and layman like us are supposed to handle it.

Brutal.

Perhaps another factor is that the best women are now taken. As in happily married and stayed that way. In the 20s you have more marriageable people who are single. As they pair off and get married they depart the marketplace in many cases never to return.

For the truly top tier women? I’d say in most cases. They marry and are never back in the market.

And the ones who do show back up after being divorced or widowed return to a different landscape.

But men who are adroit with women and who appeal to women do not struggle. They just don’t.

So then the question becomes, what is there in the mirror that needs to adapt or evolve or change in order to create appeal or increase appeal?

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

There are women looking for different things, those looking to wife up probably find a 35 yr old more attractive if he has a job, a car, a pad, and a plan - she wants to pump out some pups.

Likewise youth is king and 35 yr old male with his **** together in every way is more desireable
to a bigger swatch of women than just about any comparable male or any age given it’s no longer taboo for 50 year old to date him either, many won’t but many will.

it’s all varied but the 80/20% rule applies.

 

[BadBoy89]

Perhaps another factor is that the best women are now taken. As in happily married and stayed that way. In the 20s you have more marriageable people who are single. As they pair off and get married they depart the marketplace in many cases never to return.

For the truly top tier women? I’d say in most cases. They marry and are never back in the market.

And the ones who do show back up after being divorced or widowed return to a different landscape.

I'd say any woman, married or not, becomes more ruthless as they get older. Now if they have a child, then it's less, but God forbid they have never been pregnant while married, then it's game over.

But men who are adroit with women and who appeal to women do not struggle. They just don’t.

So then the question becomes, what is there in the mirror that needs to adapt or evolve or change in order to create appeal or increase appeal?

About 5 inches; vertically, not horizontally

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

So what if women have it tougher? Doesn't mean shiit.

The Wall Is Softer Than We Think – Roosh Valizadeh

One popular maxim of the manosphere is the wall. It goes something like this: Once a girl is done riding the **** carousel, she will find herself at an age and lower attractiveness where she can no longer get the alpha male she wants. She will then have no choice but to load up on cats or find a lo

www.rooshv.com

These 30s/40s women have no shortage of men who are interested in them.

They have no shortage of subpar men, yes. That's precisely why they settle for "safe betas". It's not because they're mature and actually have a good selection process, it's because they don't have the option for high SMV guys period.

Yes, game is getting more difficult. As I get closer to 40, I can remember what game was like when I was in college (2001-05). It was definitely easier to seduce in the 2001-2006 era than after 2010.

My age gaps haven't increased much as time has gone on, but that could be specific to me.

I'm convinced most men who have a harder time as they age is simply due "coasting" from their earlier days, and don't bother to continually learn and adapt and change their methods. This could also be a mentality issue, thinking "I'm too old, not good enough" or something along those lines, too. The conditioning men have undergone to make them think they lose their value after 30 is astonishing.

I don’t know about that bro. I had way more girls in my 20s too. I had no idea what game or anything was back then, and girls would stick their tongue down my throat no problem,

Now I look better, I’m richer, best car, best house, more experience, more game than you can imagine, but I’m not 6’1, and some times I can’t get divorced women to call back.

It’s not all about men not having game or not understanding women. When women lose their looks and sexuality, they lose their power and are absolutely ruthless. Brad Pitt couldn‘t handle Angelina, and layman like us are supposed to handle it.

Brutal.

Something there that isn't adding up. Not going to pontificate, but I do not understand why that could be the case, unless you're only going for broads in their 30s.

 

[Striker_93]

Like I said earlier, most college-aged guys act immature and rely on the party atmosphere to serve up lays...which again, works...but any 30 something guy with a job, a decent body, and decent clothes can outflank a frat boy.

I don't know man.....

That's debatable

 

[Striker_93]

Sure, but why debate when you can just give it a try?

I'm not talking about myself......

I'm saying it's debatable to say a 30 something year old will out pull a frat/party guy in his prime.

I think the frat guy would win that one.

 

[PRW63]

These 30s/40s women have no shortage of men who are interested in them.

I know some in their 60's with more guys chasing them than they can keep up with.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I'm not talking about myself......

I'm saying it's debatable to say a 30 something year old will out pull a frat/party guy in his prime.

I think the frat guy would win that one.

Most frat party guys are just drunk idiots with no game. They're a joke. The guy who is fun and confident (without needing to get drunk) will almost always do better.

 

[Bigpapa]

Most frat party guys are just drunk idiots with no game. They're a joke. The guy who is fun and confident (without needing to get drunk) will almost always do better.

this is what we like to think , and it is fair if in terms of smv more or less they are the same , otherwise none of them will get laid

 

[Snag87]

I know some in their 60's with more guys chasing them than they can keep up with.

How old are the guys?

BTW, if I ever get to the point where I have to pursue a 60+ year old, it's time to retire from women, regardless of my age. 55 is the oldest I'd go, even if I'm 80.

 

[fastlife]

I'm saying it's debatable to say a 30 something year old will out pull a frat/party guy in his prime.

I think the frat guy would win that one.

Most frat guys aren't getting laid at all--or maybe once or twice a yr with drunk freshmen. Go out to college bars and meet them. You can throw medium-busted girls at them and they'll try to be your friend for life. Middle to upper-tier frat guys almost always end up wifing up one of the hotter sorority girls--not a bad gig--a lot of them end up marrying those same girls once they graduate because they never built the skillset. Only a tiny fraction of frat guys clean up--and even that's probably on a more moderate scale than most people would assume.

Mostly they just have a lot of pull in blowing your sh1t up if they feel like it, ditto sorority sisters--esp bigs. Group theory's a must. And they host parties and private events that your (or my) ass aren't getting into--tough. Way easier in general to pull independents--but even then you need to manage the friends. Also, a lot of sorority girls get disillusioned by the scene and are on the market for guys outside of it by the time they're juniors or seniors. Not saying it's easy, logistics usually suck, but definitely doable with a little bit of legwork.

 

[zekko]

Obviously a 27 year old man, if he was identical to a 45 year old man in every way except looks, would do better with women. But that is purely hypothetical.

The fact of the matter is, the only thing that declines with men over time is their T levels and their looks. But both of those can be mitigated easily. There are plenty of men who are still good looking, masculine, and verile in their 40s.

Everything else improves. Not automatically, of course, but if the man in question is living his life in an optimal way.

I agree with this. I guess if you're a guy who peaks in high school or peaks in college, maybe you're not going to level up when you get older. But for me, I was a much more desirable man in my 30s than when I was in my 20s. In my 20s I was less secure with myself, and hadn't learned how to handle myself correctly yet. I was putting in a lot of work in my 20s though, and a lot of it started paying off in my 30s. Even the declining T levels can work to your advantage, because when I was younger the hormones were so strong girls would just frazzle my brain. In my 30s, the edge was off enough that things weren't so urgent for me, and that paid off in a number of ways.

Bottom line, I don't think it's a lie that you improve in your 30s , but you have to put the work into yourself when you're in your 20s. You have to stay in shape and not let yourself go.

 

[IKO69]

Most men in their 20's, while in their physical prime, are still immature in many areas. They are just beginning to get their **** together. I can still remember a couple of the cool, hot girls that I liked who got snatched up by older guys who were further along in life. They just had more to offer and that's how it goes. The improvement with girls that you see when you get older are in direct proportion to your overall growth & progress. There are older guys 30's+ that slay women in their 20's regularly. You are the actual prize because you have the potential to do this and can do this (women cannot attract the same quality of desirable men after a certain point - that's the double edge sword about looks), but you can't rest on your laurels. Many guys waste their youth by living for chicks; chicks they can't and don't get while neglecting themselves. You have to view yourself as an investment - see how young women dedicate so much time, attention and care to themselves as far as their appearance? Do the same, but grow all the areas in your life (not just looks).

 

[PRW63]

How old are the guys?

BTW, if I ever get to the point where I have to pursue a 60+ year old, it's time to retire from women, regardless of my age. 55 is the oldest I'd go, even if I'm 80.

They are several years younger than the women and go upward from there. But some of the women are freaks of nature. One 63yo was a competitive ice skater and tri-athlete and she still has the body and still does those things recreationally herself and is professionally a coach to the younger ones who are competing. Flat belly, abs, toned, she looks 30 until you get up close enough to see the lines in her face and the texture of her skin. There are others like her in the circles I run with, she isn't the only one. For reference, I am nearly 60yo (59 as I write this) and in my 50's (in 2014) got two Bronze in the Regional Senior Olympics in my state (biking road race & time trial). The next year my three person team got 4th at the big annual Tri-Illini sprint triathlon at the University of Illinois (I did the time trial on the bike, they did the swimming/running). Most of the competitors were college punks and we weren't separated by age. Unfortunately I am not as well preserved a the woman I mentioned above, but I am in better shape than many men my age.

 

[Smok1nAce]

I'm not referring to the users in this board that within the limits of their experience (myself included) try to help the best they...often failing.

I'm referring to people like Rollo and those other youtubers and influencers that are doing a very strong disservice to their younger followers.

The topic is AGE of course and there is this incredibile lie that for men it gets better with age or even worse their overall value increases as long as they get wealthy or improve their social status.

None of that is true, you guys may find yourself more powerful and free in your late 30s rather than your late 20s but there is no chance in hell that you will have access to better good looking women compared to your younger self, let alone the valuable experiences that can only happen when you are both young and primed for it.

Is it easier to get laid in your mid 30s rather than your mid 20s? yeah it is, I can confirm that but the women are older, have more baggage, you get much less validation since they are planning it instead of feeling it as much as many other factors I wont list in order to keep this as short as possible.

The only men that peak in their late 30s are the ones that for some reason failed to even getting close to their full potential in their 20s.

Nothing creates attraction, it's either there or it's not and making yourself a security or an utility to a woman will get you laid but it will come from a conscious decision from her...there is no raw animal instinctual desire unlike the pretty girls drinking chad's juice in the back seat of his car.

Your armani suit will impress the ladies but it will be your tight body to make them wet and full of desire, that 500 euros shirt wont make your arms any bigger when you get naked and surely those 200 euros sun glasses wont make your hair more dense.

A 21 yrs old guy that get laid with his same age girlfriend while doing the night shift at the university lab gets a much more rewarding experience than a 40yrs old millionaire banging two models on his 100 ft boat.

Then there is the point about bonding with a woman but thats a long topic that would make this post 5 pages long.

So just like feminists are b****ting young women with their career stuff and you can have it all gurl suggestions, many guys are also giving younger ones wrong info.

Agree, but thats for men and women in general.

Yeah I've had gf in my late teens and early 20s and yes at that stage in life everything is very primal, instinctive and genuine when coming into a relationship, making the sex passionate and heavy. All this is driven by hormones. Married or not woman and men loose "that" hormonal drive by 21 and men maybe by 25, when life starts to hit you and you have to "grow up".

Its why so many older men who never had that type of "love" desire virgins, its the closest they will ever get to that feeling. The only way to ever get this is to marry, both virgins as early as possible in life and stay together happily till death.

So what your saying is true once you get out of your teens and early 20s for men or women the type of "relationship" that is driven by uncontrollable hormones will probably never exist again in your life. Its a fact of life and we all age.

But women can have kids until her early 40s and men well into older age. That's another fact of life. "men age like wine, and women age like milk", while still true is a little different then the basic surface notion.

What im saying is true and can only be had through experience and is why so many vigin incels follow blindly with the notion, cause they simply don't know. Men age well and definitely get better with age with good genetics and women age significantly faster. Access to younger women is still their and if you take care of yourself you can still have that access, but it takes alot longer for you to develop that relationship the older you get, man or women.

 

[peeps]

Th

Listen. We are all going to age. Best to do it gracefully. People who are attractive (good looking, fit and stylish) are going to have the most opportunity at any given age relative to their peers. The real outliers are going to have wide appeal (much greater than their peers) to many people.

I’m in my early 50s as many of you know. Men from early 30s to early 80s approach me all the time. @RangerMIke is correct. It takes greater discipline to remain fit in your 50s. Most people, men and women both, give up. Men are dealing with midlife & declining T levels, women are dealing with menopause. But discipline wins the day. My best advice to the younger guys here (the advice I give my own 19 year old son) is this:

On looks:
1. Eat healthy & do not over eat
2. Exercise and discipline your body, which helps to mature & discipline your mind
3. Dress with panache. My son loves to dress. He is good looking although only 5’8”, and he rocks brogues good jeans and a sport coat or smoking jacket or dress shirt. He outclasses many men much older than he is. He is stylish, cool and sophisticated in appearance. Chicks dig him.
4. Confidence wins the day.
5. Pick a chick who is into you. High interest all the way.
6. Avoid the sun. Nothing ages you faster.

On success:
1. The world doesn’t care about you. The world judges you on your results. Create good results and you create a good life. Your mom and your best mates will love you, maybe a wife if you choose well, but no one else cares. Understand that & get about results.
2. Do everything in your power to avoid mistakes you cannot recover from.
3. Have character. Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking.
4. Have/develop work ethic. Winners never quit & Quitters never win. Perseverance rules the day.
5. Know when to change horses in life. Learn when.
6. Find a mentor & learn everything you can from them.

On Women:
1. We are ALL crazy. Pick a crazy you can live with.
2. You focus on being the best man you can. Require through your actions and your leadership for her to be her best self too.
3. Women freak out. Let them. They’ll get over it if you refuse to freak out with them.
4. Pick someone who is passionate about you & who you find physically and otherwise irresistible. Sexual chemistry is the glue.
5. Hold women to account. Your mom, your sister, your girlfriend or wife.
6. Be a gentleman and expect a lady.
7. Do not be afraid to dismiss.
8. Pick someone patient and loving and kind. Reward her for these traits.

I know 50 year old men who date women in their 20s and I know men who have let the beer belly & sloppiness ruin their prospects too. I hang out with others who, like me have made a lifestyle of good habits, fun & act togetherness. My fiancé is 45 and HOT. Desirable in every way but with his own set of quirks too. He worries about me because he sees the way men vy for my attention, which keeps him sharp.

He knows he’s lucky. But make no mistake. You make your own luck.

Cheers

This is sticky worthy advice

 

[StacksHitEmUp]

On looks:
1. Eat healthy & do not over eat
2. Exercise and discipline your body, which helps to mature & discipline your mind
3. Dress with panache. My son loves to dress. He is good looking although only 5’8”, and he rocks brogues good jeans and a sport coat or smoking jacket or dress shirt. He outclasses many men much older than he is. He is stylish, cool and sophisticated in appearance. Chicks dig him.
4. Confidence wins the day.
5. Pick a chick who is into you. High interest all the way.
6. Avoid the sun. Nothing ages you faster.

On success:
1. The world doesn’t care about you. The world judges you on your results. Create good results and you create a good life. Your mom and your best mates will love you, maybe a wife if you choose well, but no one else cares. Understand that & get about results.
2. Do everything in your power to avoid mistakes you cannot recover from.
3. Have character. Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking.
4. Have/develop work ethic. Winners never quit & Quitters never win. Perseverance rules the day.
5. Know when to change horses in life. Learn when.
6. Find a mentor & learn everything you can from them.

On Women:
1. We are ALL crazy. Pick a crazy you can live with.
2. You focus on being the best man you can. Require through your actions and your leadership for her to be her best self too.
3. Women freak out. Let them. They’ll get over it if you refuse to freak out with them.
4. Pick someone who is passionate about you & who you find physically and otherwise irresistible. Sexual chemistry is the glue.
5. Hold women to account. Your mom, your sister, your girlfriend or wife.
6. Be a gentleman and expect a lady.
7. Do not be afraid to dismiss.
8. Pick someone patient and loving and kind. Reward her for these traits.

Should be a thread of its own. Really good advice in this post.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

I approach 30 this year and have gotten better every single year in my twenties. The reason most older guys I have witnessed struggle with women, especially younger women, is because they are unrelatable. Some dude in a red pill circle who thinks that society is screwed, hates mainstream music, hates partying, looks down on whatever is cool with social media, feels that we should go back to the old days, and sees younger people as a part of a spoiled generation is not going to pull a hot sorority girl that is bubbly, parties hard, loves mainstream music and is into social media.

Problem is that older doesn't usually mean wiser, it means bitter for most men. Most older guys get into this stage where they are bitter, easily moodly, egotistical, entitled, and not willing to adapt. There is the "Hollywood" older which is a fit celeb who looks cool and then there is the typical older which is your suburban dad looking out of place. If you go to any big city, you will see older guys up to their 40s pulling but most of the times? They fit seamlessly in with the younger crowd.

A big part of this is also vibes. Most older guys get bitter as shown by this thread and so they project that outwards to the world. Most women rather be broke and get with some dude making way less than having to deal with that. Good luck convincing these guys of that though.