It's not invasion when the people within the boundaries choose to secede and join another govt. That's self determination.
Anyone here from Russia?
- Thread starter Dash Riprock
- Start date
EyeBRollin
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2015
- Messages
- 10,697
- Reaction score
- 8,643
- Age
- 35
No, that is illegitimate. Again, if citizens of US State Texas hold a vote to join Mexico, they are not part of Mexico nor does it permit an invasion by Mexico into the US.
sangheilios
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2018
- Messages
- 2,674
- Reaction score
- 2,792
- Age
- 34
Interesting to read some opinions on here but here is some info for some that may be a bit unaware.
After the fall of the Soviet Union there was an agreement with Russia and the U.S/west that no nations that geographically border Russia would be allowed to join NATO. This changed in 2008 when the Baltic countries (Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia) joined NATO, which is when tensions began to rise. There have been talks about Ukraine wanting to become part of the EU, as well as possibly NATO, over the past few years and this is not at all in Russia's best interest. I'm sure there are many other factors that are not known by the public, such as an oil pipeline that was supposed to go through Ukraine and even corruption with Biden's son and Ukraine.....what exactly that was is about I have no idea.
Something else to consider is why Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 and is looking to do the same in the eastern part of Ukraine that has been the hot bed for separatist activity for quite some time now. Crimea has for a very long time been of significant strategic importance, as it is a warm water port in the black sea. The eastern part of Ukraine, known as the Donbass region, is a major industrial/resource hub that was also a key region during WW2 when the Germans and Soviet Union were fighting one another.
When people stop looking at things as evil vs. good and instead just look at this from a standpoint of acquiring or maintaining resources, creating geographical influence or even just self-preservation it all makes sense. I feel that Putin felt that they'd go in there and steam roll through Ukraine and ultimately take it over within a very short period of time and then install some sort of puppet(s) into the Ukranian government that they can control. They then can pull out of the country, avoiding further escalation, and then with this puppet government they can prevent the Ukraine from joining NATO or the EU. This gamble did not work out at all for Putin and now Finland is looking to join NATO and the president of Ukraine has asked for his nation to immediately be granted membership to the EU.
After the fall of the Soviet Union there was an agreement with Russia and the U.S/west that no nations that geographically border Russia would be allowed to join NATO. This changed in 2008 when the Baltic countries (Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia) joined NATO, which is when tensions began to rise. There have been talks about Ukraine wanting to become part of the EU, as well as possibly NATO, over the past few years and this is not at all in Russia's best interest. I'm sure there are many other factors that are not known by the public, such as an oil pipeline that was supposed to go through Ukraine and even corruption with Biden's son and Ukraine.....what exactly that was is about I have no idea.
Something else to consider is why Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 and is looking to do the same in the eastern part of Ukraine that has been the hot bed for separatist activity for quite some time now. Crimea has for a very long time been of significant strategic importance, as it is a warm water port in the black sea. The eastern part of Ukraine, known as the Donbass region, is a major industrial/resource hub that was also a key region during WW2 when the Germans and Soviet Union were fighting one another.
When people stop looking at things as evil vs. good and instead just look at this from a standpoint of acquiring or maintaining resources, creating geographical influence or even just self-preservation it all makes sense. I feel that Putin felt that they'd go in there and steam roll through Ukraine and ultimately take it over within a very short period of time and then install some sort of puppet(s) into the Ukranian government that they can control. They then can pull out of the country, avoiding further escalation, and then with this puppet government they can prevent the Ukraine from joining NATO or the EU. This gamble did not work out at all for Putin and now Finland is looking to join NATO and the president of Ukraine has asked for his nation to immediately be granted membership to the EU.
Let me guess, you're against Brexit also aren't you.
EyeBRollin
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2015
- Messages
- 10,697
- Reaction score
- 8,643
- Age
- 35
Not analogous to Crimea.
Sure it is. Another example of people's right to self determination. Anyways I'm done with this convo...
EyeBRollin
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2015
- Messages
- 10,697
- Reaction score
- 8,643
- Age
- 35
You clearly don’t understand the meaning of national sovereignty.
EyeBRollin
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2015
- Messages
- 10,697
- Reaction score
- 8,643
- Age
- 35
A lot of people are. I’m curious as to why. How is invading a weaker country justifiable in this day and age?
Who Dares Win
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2012
- Messages
- 7,516
- Reaction score
- 5,895
Exactly.
No idea honestly, we should ask the us gov since they are many years in this business. also pretty sure hollywood can help.
EyeBRollin
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2015
- Messages
- 10,697
- Reaction score
- 8,643
- Age
- 35
Both sidesism is a defense of Putin’s invasion.
zekko
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2009
- Messages
- 16,065
- Reaction score
- 8,907
Perhaps installing some sort of puppet government is the aim of Russia's peace talks with the Ukraine. I doubt that Ukraine will agree to that, however. Ukraine probably wanted to join NATO, but I'm not sure NATO would have allowed that since they knew that would provoke Putin.
I hope that the way the whole world has stood against this aggression will deter China from attacking Taiwan. They may have at least some interest in looking like the good guys.
Who Dares Win
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2012
- Messages
- 7,516
- Reaction score
- 5,895
Ofc, if I say that communism and nazism both killed people, it means I'm defending nazis...makes lotta sense.
Can I say that stalin killed 20 millions people or its a defence of hitler's 6 millions?
EyeBRollin
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2015
- Messages
- 10,697
- Reaction score
- 8,643
- Age
- 35
Yes. We can condemn Nazism without bringing up communism. Just like we can condemn Putin’s invasion for what it is without bringing up other bullshvt.
In the context you presented, it is a defense.
“Adolf Hitler is bad”
“But Stalin killed more people!”
Last edited:
Who Dares Win
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2012
- Messages
- 7,516
- Reaction score
- 5,895
You wrote:
"How is invading a weaker country justifiable in this day and age? "
To which I replied
"No idea honestly, we should ask the us gov since they are many years in this business. also pretty sure hollywood can help."
You can read above if you believe I misreported any part of the talk, if I did feel free to quote them and you will get me correcting.
Kotaix
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2019
- Messages
- 2,285
- Reaction score
- 2,884
- Age
- 46
If Russia wanted to put nukes in cuba or venezuela, the us would have a cow. Remember the cuban missile crisis? This is nothing different, he doesn't want nato on his doorstep.
NATO bylaws say that no country engaged in external or internal conflict can join. This is why Putin has been funding the civil war in the donbass and luhansk regions.
Also, the western media are lying about what is happening so that they can take attention away from the disastrous handling of the pandemic. Just in time to start fearmongering about war instead of covid.
EyeBRollin
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2015
- Messages
- 10,697
- Reaction score
- 8,643
- Age
- 35
Are you saying Russia did not invade Ukraine?
What does the housing crises have to do with Russia invading Ukraine?
EyeBRollin
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2015
- Messages
- 10,697
- Reaction score
- 8,643
- Age
- 35
Your both sidesism is pretty clear. And you made a point to compare Stalin and Hitler, two names most reasonable people never bring up in dialogue.
Maybe he watches the Americans tv show too and feels nostalgic.
Because it shows how racist the Ukranians are to black people.
