I need some help with a place I'm at right now

[sangheilios]

I've been totally out of the game for well over 2 years now, as from around 2016/17 through 2019 I was experiencing nothing but rejection, flakiness, etc. and eventually gave up for the sake of my mental health. I've posted about this on here before and I was having a ton of issues with anger, body image issues, constantly questioning myself, etc.

@SW15 Mentioned to me on another post about running into low quality women and not being able to filter them out, as it just seemed to have been literally one after the other. I was having women approach me, flirt and all that, agree to dates and then flake on our scheduled dates and then ghost me. I've had women reject me and when I go to walk away and move on they would literally go out of their way to interact with me, flirt, etc. in order to gain my attention.

Based upon my observations and personal experiences, I genuinely am starting to believe that there is something wrong with the women in my area. There seems to be a total lack of respect for men, I've seen many cases of them belittling men and trying to make them feel lesser. They also seem to have very poor social skills. For instance, earlier this past week I was out and about and I saw this woman that I thought looked really familiar but I couldn't place it. There were a bunch of other people around and I said something like "This might sound like an odd question but where have I seen you before?". She got super awkward and started acting like it was the most terrifying thing in her life and then I said "You realize I'm not even hitting on you, right?". I didn't want to make an even greater scene than she was already creating so I just laughed at her and went back to my business. Another time I was with a friend and some girl he was dating and I asked her where she was from and she had this long and awkward drawn out "Whhhhyyyy?" and then I said "I'm trying to start a conversation with you.".

I've been in contact with an escort that I saw a couple years back and I had a really good experience with her back then that I found was a good confidence booster. It was crazy that I was able to have a better conversation with someone like this compared to just these regular women that I'd cross paths with. However, a part of me feels a bit uneasy about following through with something like this, the money is not an issue nor is the morality of it. The issue that I have is I'm experiencing thoughts like "I'm 6'4", ripped and got a lot going for me......I shouldn't have to be doing something like this.". I've just had so many poor dating/social experiences with women in my area and I just can't motivate myself to put any effort in. I feel that it might break some mental patterns that I've developed over the past few years but I'm also concerned about creating a different wiring where I'll be totally incapable of having any success with more normal women, regardless of how insufferable many of them are. I've essentially been full MGTOW the last 2 years but I of course have physical/sexual needs. However, I honeslty have little need for emotional validation because I already get that from my own life purpose, goals, etc. and don't need a woman to be "happy".

 

[user252009]

Man the dating scene is completely fvcked up for the last two or so years. Where are you located?

 

[jimwho]

My advice. Stop caring so much about what some Dingbat is thinking. Personally I remind myself often to not be my old friendly self because they mistake it for flirting. I just am charming, enjoyable, keep a little distance, and let them come to me. Try it. Also it could be they're intimidated by you .

 

[anonymous12345]

@sangheilios, I'm somewhat in the same age bracket as you, also got and reason the same way about my value, and I at least have experienced your situation. In my social sphere it seems to be like that for all men here, and those in relationships are either very feminine men or the usual simp/beta relationships.

So, @user252009's comment speaks to me, and my favourite theory is that OLD and IG has completely saturated women's need for attention and run the hypergamy through the roof, combined with high anti-slut defences. People generally have less sex the statistics say, at least in USA and Sweden.

But here's the thing. Some guys manage anyway. Take a look at @darksprezzatura's impressive plate spinning, or my friend who have a notch count around 60.

I suspect that we radiate something that some men do with such background -- I've also experienced constantly questioning myself, rejections, flaking. But so have many of the successful casanovas here.

 

[sangheilios]

@sangheilios, I'm somewhat in the same age bracket as you, also got and reason the same way about my value, and I at least have experienced your situation. In my social sphere it seems to be like that for all men here, and those in relationships are either very feminine men or the usual simp/beta relationships.

So, @user252009's comment speaks to me, and my favourite theory is that OLD and IG has completely saturated women's need for attention and run the hypergamy through the roof, combined with high anti-slut defences. People generally have less sex the statistics say, at least in USA and Sweden.

But here's the thing. Some guys manage anyway. Take a look at @darksprezzatura's impressive plate spinning, or my friend who have a notch count around 60.

I suspect that we radiate something that some men do with such background -- I've also experienced constantly questioning myself, rejections, flaking. But so have many of the successful casanovas here.

These are from the years when I was active in the game, but I was getting a lot of rejections from women who shortly later ended up in relationships with men that weren't comparable to me. When it wasn't lining up I was thinking that these women must be going for some uberchad Dolph Lundgren type, because if what I was bringing to the table wasn't enough naturally that would be the next step. However, these guys were all lower, I'm talking literally obese or really nerdy looking, broke guys, etc. When I started putting the pieces together and then recalling the interactions I had with these women it was starting to make sense.

There was one woman in particular that I had gone out with and she randomly asked me how many relationships I had been in, I gave her some b.s answer. There was another time I went out with a woman and she randomly said that me being 6'4" and in shape I must have landed a lot of women, which was not true. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this but these women are giving off clues of being insecure or concerned that I'm some sort of player, etc.

 

[Bingo-Player]

@LARaiders85 is correct

Women have a very very strong radar for dependency and insecurity

Even though you are telling us you are independent and you don't need no woman .....the reality is your "game" , "frame" vibe whatever you want to call it is telling a different story

Based upon my observations and personal experiences, I genuinely am starting to believe that there is something wrong with the women in my area. There seems to be a total lack of respect for men, I've seen many cases of them belittling men and trying to make them feel lesser. They also seem to have very poor social skills. For instance, earlier this past week I was out and about and I saw this woman that I thought looked really familiar but I couldn't place it. There were a bunch of other people around and I said something like "This might sound like an odd question but where have I seen you before?". She got super awkward and started acting like it was the most terrifying thing in her life and then I said "You realize I'm not even hitting on you, right?". I didn't want to make an even greater scene than she was already creating so I just laughed at her and went back to my business. Another time I was with a friend and some girl he was dating and I asked her where she was from and she had this long and awkward drawn out "Whhhhyyyy?" and then I said "I'm trying to start a conversation with you.".

Nobody can get "super awkward" on their own it takes two people to create that awkwardness if you don't bow into it then it literally can't happen

i approached a girl in the gym a couple of weeks ago she was super nervous .....if i was nervous too then it could quite easily have gotten "super awkward" super fast

I was nervous but i was dammed if she was gonna know that ..... by the end she was comfortable with me

Personally reading your story i think part of the problem is your actually expecting women to fall at their feet for you and when that hasn't happened for whatever reason you have fallen into a vortex of self defeat within your own mind

The dating landscape is tough , women are fussy and unpredictable tell us something we don't already know

keep opening , keep testing , keep showing up eventually the dice will fall in your favour

 

[anonymous12345]

Funny enough, I deal with the same bullsh1t. In-person, people think I must be player_supreme due to my looks. Physically fit, light eyes, intellectually driven with a strong career yet I'm getting rejected for a guy who makes sandwiches at the local Subpreme Grill - go figure.

I know women are intimidated by me both because of my looks and because I have developed a strong "don't **** with me" aura because my ego can't help but feel so incredibly slighted right now. It's a lousy cycle to deal with, but I envision I'll get to where I need to be with time.

I can relate to this. I suspect I sometimes send a hard G attitude, I look good and dress well (had of course Durden's jacket in Fight Club sewn for me for instance, I'm a very modest man). There are some women that are into me, but yes, it is downright odd that a girl turns to my pimply friend.

I'm not saying I'm high value, but there are some male vibes/looks/etc that yield the same problem as the hot blonde in the red dress has -- many men don't dare approach, get nervous, etc. A friend of mine can work the club in a functional down jacket and look like he just has woken up -- and he's way more successful at game than me, him with notch count 60. I think some identities for the lack of a better word matches others. For instance, a girl with a low self esteem will feel more comfortable with some type of guys (someone that matches what she thinks she deserves, or in effect the man that provides opposite). Maybe all this is bs.

The question is what to do with it. I agree with @Bingo-Player above, I extrapolate: you cannot fake things, chicks picks up the "truth" instantly. Hence, away with recipes, lines, etc, one need to work identity/personality. So, I don't think you can fake becoming a Subpreme Grill-guy (lol) because they would pick up who you are anyway.

 

[darksprezzatura]

Comply or Bye

I don't get the point of "low quality women" and "how to filter".

Assuming you have basic standards: hygienic, healthy, fit etc, all I look in a prospect is compliance.

Either she agrees to what I demand or I walk away. (especially in the beginning)

All the "low quality/flakey" women will filter themselves out.

Just use the magic words:
"Give me your number"
"Let's go to X place at Y time at Z o'clock"
Whip it out.

Anything else except a yes is a NO. Walk away.

 

[sangheilios]

@LARaiders85 is correct

Women have a very very strong radar for dependency and insecurity

Even though you are telling us you are independent and you don't need no woman .....the reality is your "game" , "frame" vibe whatever you want to call it is telling a different story



Nobody can get "super awkward" on their own it takes two people to create that awkwardness if you don't bow into it then it literally can't happen

i approached a girl in the gym a couple of weeks ago she was super nervous .....if i was nervous too then it could quite easily have gotten "super awkward" super fast

I was nervous but i was dammed if she was gonna know that ..... by the end she was comfortable with me

Personally reading your story i think part of the problem is your actually expecting women to fall at their feet for you and when that hasn't happened for whatever reason you have fallen into a vortex of self defeat within your own mind

The dating landscape is tough , women are fussy and unpredictable tell us something we don't already know

keep opening , keep testing , keep showing up eventually the dice will fall in your favour

I don't have the time or energy to interact with women that are clueless, which is why I quickly cut them off at any signs of rejection, awkwardness, flakiness, etc. Before I took my break from the dating market, I was having my time wasted and disrespected by women and getting NOTHING for it.....literally nothing. This was something that @SW15 had mentioned on several posts of mine in the past and you eventually get to a point where it logically makes sense to avoid something you have no success with and develop a negative association with that thing, in this case dating/interactions with the opposite sex. I have too many goals that I'm currently working towards right now, none of them involve women, and I don't need something that will detract from that. Unless a woman is highly invested into me, which is not how it works, I see no reason to pursue anything with her.

However, I would in my spare time enjoy some sexual gratification but I genuinely don't have the desire to be some woman's therapist that she discusses all of her life's struggles with just for the sake of sex lol. On the flip side, I'm not really that keen on paying for it because it's not the same dynamic and I get this artifical/mechanical vibe from something like that. I feel the only reason I even consider it is because of natural sexual urges but when I actually stop and think about it I realize it's nothing more than some temporary pleasure and my life goes back to being the same.

 

[sangheilios]

Comply or Bye

I don't get the point of "low quality women" and "how to filter".

Assuming you have basic standards: hygienic, healthy, fit etc, all I look in a prospect is compliance.

Either she agrees to what I demand or I walk away. (especially in the beginning)

All the "low quality/flakey" women will filter themselves out.

Just use the magic words:
"Give me your number"
"Let's go to X place at Y time at Z o'clock"
Whip it out.

Anything else except a yes is a NO. Walk away.

Exactly

Comply or Bye

I don't get the point of "low quality women" and "how to filter".

Assuming you have basic standards: hygienic, healthy, fit etc, all I look in a prospect is compliance.

Either she agrees to what I demand or I walk away. (especially in the beginning)

All the "low quality/flakey" women will filter themselves out.

Just use the magic words:
"Give me your number"
"Let's go to X place at Y time at Z o'clock"
Whip it out.

Anything else except a yes is a NO. Walk away.

Exactly. However, with the low quality/flakey/bat**** crazy women......there are a lot of them out from what I've seen and experienced. The important thing is to cut these women out immediately, the problem is many of these women are attractive and know how to lead a man on with enough to think he is progressing if he doesn't know what he is doing, which was a problem I had in the past.

 

[Robert28]

You don't have enough experience. Your data set is warped and you are replaying the minute number of interactions you've had in your head over and over again without forcing yourself out there and putting your ego on the line. The problem is that your ego gets too damaged from rejection when you do put yourself on the line, and that's what needs to be addressed.

You just described me to a T. It’s tough to admit but that’s exactly how I am.

 

[Mike32ct]

A few random unrelated suggestions...

1. You are probably 99% there on aesthetics, but maybe a tight buzz (#1 or #2) would look more badazz on you than a clean shaved head? (Even if the hair stubble is a little patchy, at your height, it wouldn't matter.)

2. On the more important inner game issue, what can happen to some guys (due to a bad luck streak) is they start to EXPECT the wheels to come off each time they meet a woman, and it tends to sabotage interactions. For some guys, that feeling is totally justified/realistic, but certainly shouldn't be the reality for you.

3. While you are very athletic, you are also a very intelligent guy. You might "vibe" better with some pretty but brainy/educated* chick, rather than a hot but airhead chick. Maybe dress up a bit more and hit some classy bars/lounges.

*Don't worry about intelligent women being prudes. Many are horny as F and have even more wild fantasies lol.

 

[Bingo-Player]

I don't have the time or energy to interact with women that are clueless, which is why I quickly cut them off at any signs of rejection, awkwardness, flakiness, etc. Before I took my break from the dating market, I was having my time wasted and disrespected by women and getting NOTHING for it.....literally nothing. This was something that @SW15 had mentioned on several posts of mine in the past and you eventually get to a point where it logically makes sense to avoid something you have no success with and develop a negative association with that thing, in this case dating/interactions with the opposite sex. I have too many goals that I'm currently working towards right now, none of them involve women, and I don't need something that will detract from that. Unless a woman is highly invested into me, which is not how it works, I see no reason to pursue anything with her.

However, I would in my spare time enjoy some sexual gratification but I genuinely don't have the desire to be some woman's therapist that she discusses all of her life's struggles with just for the sake of sex lol. On the flip side, I'm not really that keen on paying for it because it's not the same dynamic and I get this artifical/mechanical vibe from something like that. I feel the only reason I even consider it is because of natural sexual urges but when I actually stop and think about it I realize it's nothing more than some temporary pleasure and my life goes back to being the same.

Your expectations are too high , way too high

You aren't having your time wasted you are gaining experience nobody who is good with women and i mean really good simply got like that overnight

I have suffered countless rejections , embarrassments , flakes you name it whoop de do all that means now is i have good experience with women alternatively i would still be clueless and really would be having my time wasted

Now I see red flags before they even have a chance to appear , i know when they want to fvck , i know what to say to make them want to fvck , i know when they aren't interested and i know when i'm being strung along

I wouldn't know any of the above if i hadn't had my "time wasted"

Understand women are not naturally designed to be " partners" they are beautiful toys and they may bear your children but there is nothing written into their biology to say they must be your perfect partner

That is a construct that has been engineered over centuries of social evolution .....remove that expectation take them for what they are ( entertainment , reproduction , company ) and you will be a lot happier

 

[anonymous12345]

You just described me to a T. It’s tough to admit but that’s exactly how I am.

Yeah, I'm recovering in this area too, well on my way. Roosh V's book Day Game (PDF via Google) was ok, i.e. that even the prime casanovas has a lot of rejections on day game. I.e, statistically there will be rejections, you're not a "bad" or "wrong" person. Don't judge a decision based on its outcome, there is uncertainty outside of your control. I add that it's about mentality too:

• Who gives a **** if a chick is indifferent/pissed/rejects, she doesn't validate you. You validate/judge yourself, no one else.
• A sense of abundance/richness. It's ok if girls pass by, they're not the center of my universe, I do fine without them.

 

[Bingo-Player]

Comply or Bye

I don't get the point of "low quality women" and "how to filter".

Assuming you have basic standards: hygienic, healthy, fit etc, all I look in a prospect is compliance.

Either she agrees to what I demand or I walk away. (especially in the beginning)

All the "low quality/flakey" women will filter themselves out.

Just use the magic words:
"Give me your number"
"Let's go to X place at Y time at Z o'clock"
Whip it out.

Anything else except a yes is a NO. Walk away.

Yea this is great in theory but assumes a man will have a vast arena of women to keep cycling through

Shock horror most men will be lucky to meet one half decent chick a week thats if he has the balls to even approach her


( forget about OLD because thats a fvcking joke )

I have met around 10 new women this month mainly from nights out

I got three instagrams and a number after some light exchanges only one of these comes anywhere close to interesting me for a second meet

Point being you need a hell of pool of women and expect to churn through 80-90% of them using this method

 

[SoSuave666]

I remember you. How many women have you slept with and not paid for?

 

[metalwater]

I paid attention to your posts for some time now. Interested in what you look like, because it's often part of your topic. Is there a celebrity that you sort of look like? How do you dress usually? What sort of things are you good at, I mean hobby or skill other than work.

Ever went into church... a completely new and different ecosystem of ppl that will initially go out of their way to open with you. It's a decent way to practice the initial presentation of self.

Into sports.. would you be a star.. in a local community team, sounds like you are strong enough if you know how to play.

 

[sangheilios]

I paid attention to your posts for some time now. Interested in what you look like, because it's often part of your topic. Is there a celebrity that you sort of look like? How do you dress usually? What sort of things are you good at, I mean hobby or skill other than work.

Ever went into church... a completely new and different ecosystem of ppl that will initially go out of their way to open with you. It's a decent way to practice the initial presentation of self.

Into sports.. would you be a star.. in a local community team, sounds like you are strong enough if you know how to play.

I have a shaved/buzzed head so I look kind of look like a tanner Caucasian version of Vin Diesel or the actor that played as Imhotep in the Mummy, I'm only tan because I live in a sunny environment. My body type/look is pretty comparable to Jason Momoa's "dad bod" photo at the beach, I like to eat but that's a pretty good example of what I'm built like.

In regards to dress, I'm usually in athletic type wear because I'm either at the gym or doing outdoor activities, etc. It's also more comfortable given the climate I live in. If I go to a restaurant or something like that I'll put on jeans and I have some good shirts I wear, either nice t shirts or some button downs.

As for hobbies and skills. Outside of work I go to the gym a lot and really into training, mostly strength/power based stuff with a lot of bodyweight exercises, sleds, conditioning work, etc. with yoga and all that. I also like to go hiking a lot in my area, I have access to some really high level stuff within a very short drive from my house. Other than that though I like to read up on anything that interests me. I'm also really into investing and I've had a ton of success with that, so I spend a good amount of my time devoting mental energy into that. I Besides working out, work, some hiking and my investments I don't really have a whole lot of free time left and even if I did I'm kind of tired and just want to sit and do nothing. Something that I want to get into semi regularly is poker, I went a couple weeks ago with $100 and left with over $330 after playing $1/$2for about 3 hours and I had a blast, great group of people there that night. I have the kind of money on hand and with cash flow from my job that this is totally doable. I have a tendency to not allow myself to enjoy life at all and I'm thinking of allowing myself some "fun" money. I also get a long massage every 2 weeks but other than that I don't treat myself to anything.

Church......I've never really felt comfortable with that but it's not a bad idea.

As for sports, I just like to do my own thing but a while back I tried getting into track and field in my area and there was a massive douchebag that was one of the coaches and it totally turned me off from that, I'd rather not get into that story lol. I also tried BJJ in my area and the gyms out here have such a meathead/douchey vibe to them, this is close to a decade ago. Again, I'd rather not get into that story because I have no interest in going back. I'm also getting older, I'm in my early 30s, and I'm not looking to get into something that could cause me injuries when I'm not even getting paid to do it lol.

 

[MatureDJ]

I remember you. How many women have you slept with and not paid for?

I am in the 2%.

 

[metalwater]

I have a shaved/buzzed head so I look kind of look like a tanner Caucasian version of Vin Diesel or the actor that played as Imhotep in the Mummy, I'm only tan because I live in a sunny environment. My body type/look is pretty comparable to Jason Momoa's "dad bod" photo at the beach, I like to eat but that's a pretty good example of what I'm built like.

In regards to dress, I'm usually in athletic type wear because I'm either at the gym or doing outdoor activities, etc. It's also more comfortable given the climate I live in. If I go to a restaurant or something like that I'll put on jeans and I have some good shirts I wear, either nice t shirts or some button downs.

As for hobbies and skills. Outside of work I go to the gym a lot and really into training, mostly strength/power based stuff with a lot of bodyweight exercises, sleds, conditioning work, etc. with yoga and all that. I also like to go hiking a lot in my area, I have access to some really high level stuff within a very short drive from my house. Other than that though I like to read up on anything that interests me. I'm also really into investing and I've had a ton of success with that, so I spend a good amount of my time devoting mental energy into that. I Besides working out, work, some hiking and my investments I don't really have a whole lot of free time left and even if I did I'm kind of tired and just want to sit and do nothing. Something that I want to get into semi regularly is poker, I went a couple weeks ago with $100 and left with over $330 after playing $1/$2for about 3 hours and I had a blast, great group of people there that night. I have the kind of money on hand and with cash flow from my job that this is totally doable. I have a tendency to not allow myself to enjoy life at all and I'm thinking of allowing myself some "fun" money. I also get a long massage every 2 weeks but other than that I don't treat myself to anything.

Church......I've never really felt comfortable with that but it's not a bad idea.

As for sports, I just like to do my own thing but a while back I tried getting into track and field in my area and there was a massive douchebag that was one of the coaches and it totally turned me off from that, I'd rather not get into that story lol. I also tried BJJ in my area and the gyms out here have such a meathead/douchey vibe to them, this is close to a decade ago. Again, I'd rather not get into that story because I have no interest in going back. I'm also getting older, I'm in my early 30s, and I'm not looking to get into something that could cause me injuries when I'm not even getting paid to do it lol.

I have to think about it. you sound like you have lots of good things to work with. also maybe others have more ideas from this info.

definitely try the church thing. don't expect much other than a great way to practice ppl skills. they will make it easy for you. don't worry it goes bad, just try another. learn what they have to teach, you don't have to adopt the ways but some of them are interesting.

sports teams always have a meathead included, I know what you mean about that. based on my initial of your info, some of the service clubs would probably love you and give you access to DIFFERENT ppl. Also zumba, just for kicks and laffs.

try some business attire when you go out and see if it gets different results than the sports stuff. Tall stong man in a casual suite always stands out.

what country are you in, if you don't mind telling. might be some culture things that others know about.