Walked away. It's been two years. Why is she reaching out?

[MysteryMuchacho]

First time poster - long time lurker. Apologies ahead of time for the info dump. But I really do appreciate anyone subjecting themselves to it. It's been building for a few weeks and I need it out of my mind.

The Back Story

We are coworkers (different departments now). Feelings developed for 8 long months and then we dated for 7months. She told me she had bad PTSD/Anxiety from a rape, so I took my time with her along with the fact that I was slightly apprehensive about dating a coworker. To say I was ENAMORED with her the first 4 months would be an understatement - I thought I'd found me a long termer, but some odd behaviors began showing themselves and my foot dragging began. One week it all changed - suddenly she went very unresponsive to texts/calls whereas previously she'd respond at the speed of light. Intuition was screaming at me something was up. I instigated an argument. Told her I won't put up with that kind of thing. She cited her feelings had suddenly changed and that I didn't make enough time for us for her to be more comfortable. We parted ways.

I regretted every second of that argument and went on a hero's quest to rekindle what we had. Things were looking on the up and up over the next month and we made plans. Day of she flirted with me all morning over text and IG and then ............. she flaked. She proceeded to post to social media something about her "depression" and videos of getting drunk at a bar with her friend. I finally got her on the phone later that night to have her explain wth happened and I was not prepared for what I heard. It was a full on episode of some kind - chalk full of crying and re-living her rape trauma. She even warned me I wasn't gonna recognize who I was talking to.

My heart broke for her. I felt like it was my call to arms to be a better man and more vulnerable with her because I had COMPLETELY missed the boat with this stuff when we dated. The next morning I texted her to let her know how much I cared, that I was there for her, and that I was not going anywhere. Initially she really appreciated it then 24 hours later I get a text telling me she needs to be alone, to work on her toxic anger, and work on herself. It was mostly downhill from there - my efforts were rebuffed and I was walking on egg shells with a person I no longer recognized. She was very petty towards me and often cited that she hated how I was trying "now instead of before". Then during a lunch we had together in our office, she was acting weird, so I asked why and then she casually dropped it on me - "Oh it's my bipolar" like it was a bad cough or something. At that point I had spent 5 long months trying to get "us" back so sure add this to the mix too - it wasn't going to phase me.

I had been hearing things around the office about her dating an orbiter at our work - she basically had an intergalactic federacy of them. Then at her ensuing bday party I make one passing comment to someone about her being chummy with the orbiter. It got back to her. She went scorched earth on me the next day as a novel flooded into my text messages in what seemed like a matter of seconds. She told me it was none of my business if they were dating or not and then proceeded to talk to me in a way nobody I've ever dated has. I'm talkin' really low blow stuff and on top of that lobbed some crazy accusation that a friend of mine who she's never met sexually groped her at that bday party. There was no talking her down off any of this and then came the final shank - something bad would happen to me if I ever tried to reach out to her again and she didn't want to ever speak to me for the rest of her life.

I really didn't know what she was capable of at that point. Absolutely befuddled as to how it all deteriorated so horribly - I gave up. I moved on with my life fully expecting to never hear from her again. Life's f-d sometimes though - I mean my call to arms to be a better man marched my unsuspecting ass right into the gnashing teeth of her bipolar. THAT'S how I was rewarded for having a genuine personal awakening. For a while I was very resentful, especially for how long she kept that important nugget from me and gaslighting me into thinking I was the only one at fault. Chicken or the egg right? Was it really because I didn't make enough time for us or because she didn't tell me about her bipolar earlier enough to give me a chance to understand what I was really working with?

The "Now"

Ironically COVID and the ensuing "work from home" has given me the space I needed these last two years to get back to me. I've never reached out to her, but much to my disbelief she's reached out four times. Three of those were via work chat (separated by many months) and most recent was two weeks ago (a few days after her bday). They always start the same i.e. she's reaching out about insignificant work stuff and then we get to laughing about other things exchanging a few funny GIF's in the process.

The chats usually last 15-20mins, but I never talk about "us" not even the time she said she knows "we don't conversate anymore, but was dying to tell me something." Ummmm you basically threatened I should never talk to you again! Then again - people with bipolar have horrible blackouts so who knows what she remembers. I took it as a challenge to just be friendly and leave it at that. In this last chat she dropped the whole "hope your holidays were good". I mentioned I had thought of her the other day (her bday) and happy belated.

The remaining time she reached out was by text 12 months ago via a strange #. She claimed I should know who it was. A small part of me wondered if it was her - but then again my mindset was that it wasn't possible based on how it ended between her and I. She was showing off a cropped pic of the new boob job she got (something she swore she'd never do, but knew I liked big tits). She wanted to get off with me, but I couldn't tell if it was just via pics or actual sex. I told her we could, but she's gotta tell me who she was - she never did and I never heard from that # again. It wasn't until I was cleaning out my old phone a month ago when I stumbled upon old pics and sure enough clues officially tying her back to that sext.

I legitimately thought I was over all of this, but apparently there's still an exposed wire amidst the pile. Why though? Why reach out after the way it ended and the way she spoke to me? Is it because she doesn't know how to apologize? Unfortunately the cynical thought is she reaches out when she's feeling manic from her bipolar. But man, a part of me wonders "what if" I had just dropped her name in that text - where would it have led? Instead, I refused to let myself believe it could be her.

 

[Black Widow Void]

Welcome aboard.

These women have a way of getting into our heads (the BPD types). Trust me. As tempting as it may be, you'll later thank yourself if you avoid.

It's not that I lack sympathy for those suffering from this emotional condition, trauma or an unpleasant past. I do., However, these types are the quickest to suck us into a downward whirlwind that we never singed up for.

Although self doubt, trauma and BPD can cause women to act more unpredictable than usual, you also have to factor in their (generally speaking) manipulative hard-wiring nature. She's learned that by getting sympathy, she gets a hall-pass for behaviors that you'd ordinarily not tolerate in others (or yourself).

As men, we like to fix things. We also like opportunities to "right" what we perceive as our own wrong-doings. Trust me. You'll regret returning to this 'scene of the crime.'

 

[Bingo-Player]

Man there is just red flag after red flag in this story

I would have run for the hills after bipolar and the rape

Women can rarely control their emotions at the best of times when you add extreme phycological damages like the above you have a powder keg waiting to go off

You see any of these characteristics in the future you bail

 

[typical]

I stopped reading after "We are coworkers".

Can you guys stop ****ing around where you work ? Or do you lack the social skills and hobbies to meet women outside of work ?
Like honestly the majority of you guys won't EVER own your own house or accomplish anything of merit in your lives because you LACK discipline. Red flag after Red flag, quit setting yourself up for failure. It's meant to be simple .... keep it simple, life is hard enough as it is you DO NOT need more drama and bull****e due to a woman.

You like a girl ask her out, any rubbish flake out excuse just give her the benefit of doubt and throw her onto the backburner ask once more in a few weeks then toss out the number as Nismo says your Princess is in another Castle.

 

[MysteryMuchacho]

Welcome aboard.

These women have a way of getting into our heads (the BPD types). Trust me. As tempting as it may be, you'll later thank yourself if you avoid.

It's not that I lack sympathy for those suffering from this emotional condition, trauma or an unpleasant past. I do., However, these types are the quickest to suck us into a downward whirlwind that we never singed up for.

Although self doubt, trauma and BPD can cause women to act more unpredictable than usual, you also have to factor in their (generally speaking) manipulative hard-wiring nature. She's learned that by getting sympathy, she gets a hall-pass for behaviors that you'd ordinarily not tolerate in others (or yourself).

As men, we like to fix things. We also like opportunities to "right" what we perceive as our own wrong-doings. Trust me. You'll regret returning to this 'scene of the crime.'

Well said.

I'd like to add in her case she doesn't seek sympathy for her condition - I mean she practically hid it from me for as long as possible. Ultimately I was never given a fair chance to even see if this thing could work even though chances were slim just based on her condition and refusal of actual medication - she self medicates with a lot of weed, which is what many BP's do. That was then though, remember I don't know if those parameters have changed.

 

[MysteryMuchacho]

I stopped reading after "We are coworkers".

Can you guys stop ****ing around where you work ? Or do you lack the social skills and hobbies to meet women outside of work ?
Like honestly the majority of you guys won't EVER own your own house or accomplish anything of merit in your lives because you LACK discipline. Red flag after Red flag, quit setting yourself up for failure. It's meant to be simple .... keep it simple, life is hard enough as it is you DO NOT need more drama and bull****e due to a woman.

You like a girl ask her out, any rubbish flake out excuse just give her the benefit of doubt and throw her onto the backburner ask once more in a few weeks then toss out the number as Nismo says your Princess is in another Castle.

I think you're kind of lumping me into a basket of other tales told on here a bit. I've never dated a co-worker before and as mentioned I was very apprehensive about for months before I decided f- it! I was 39 and at that point considering all avenues to try and find a good girl to settle down with.

 

[MysteryMuchacho]

You've put in time and hard work understanding yourself better, learning from this episode, dodged a major career bullet, and even picked up a little unbiased sympathy for her mental issues. Don't throw away all that growth for a pair of tits.

LOL.

I know what you're saying and you're very right about how far I've come and now I know more about bipolar than I ever imagined I would - spent the first 6 months getting educated to better understand what happened when we dated. Man did that reframe the whole deal like when Edward Norton realized he was Tyler Durden. It's interesting that one of my worries when we dated was that we'd have a bad breakup and it would screw up the job situation. I never imagined though that she would have mental illness/trauma that could potential erupt like a powder keg.

The tits are just tits though. I was speaking in general, having sex with her that night was not of huge importance. Just for so looooong I built up the mindset that her reaching out was IMPOSSIBLE, especially like that. A side of me wondered if I was falling back into rigid thought patterns again and not giving us a chance to at least be on good speaking terms.

 

[SW15]

I stopped reading after "We are coworkers".

Can you guys stop ****ing around where you work ? Or do you lack the social skills and hobbies to meet women outside of work ?
Like honestly the majority of you guys won't EVER own your own house or accomplish anything of merit in your lives because you LACK discipline. Red flag after Red flag, quit setting yourself up for failure. It's meant to be simple .... keep it simple, life is hard enough as it is you DO NOT need more drama and bull****e due to a woman.

You like a girl ask her out, any rubbish flake out excuse just give her the benefit of doubt and throw her onto the backburner ask once more in a few weeks then toss out the number as Nismo says your Princess is in another Castle.

Most men are beta males. Beta males with good social skills and/or the fortune of staying in the same geographic area their whole lives meet women through their social circles. The betas with lesser social skills tend to use their workplaces (if white collar), swipe apps, or maybe do an approach or two at bars.

The more alpha/sigma males are cold approaching, especially at non-bar venues. If you're a man cold approaching on city streets, walking/hiking paths, or any non-bar venue, that's a sign you're an alpha/sigma guy. Beta males don't have the guts to do non-bar approaching.

Going back to the workplace, I don't fault men in low wage service sector work or blue collar work for meeting women at work because those environments are so much different than white collar. Blue collar workers don't typically have women in their workplaces. Construction workers, welders, auto/aircraft mechanics, and plumbers aren't meeting women at their workplaces. Men working in restaurants or store level retail have female co-workers. Since tenures are short in that space, meeting women in that space is ok. It's not like those are actual careers, whereas in blue collar, you can make an actual career out of those occupations.

 

[MysteryMuchacho]

Ah I see. Well the why of her reaching out is simple...she's a woman. Give them enough space and time and they all try to come back.

It's always smart to question your thought patterns and not get stuck in identity traps. But I think you're doing the right thing staying away from her. I have a toxic ex (not as bad as yours though) and I do not contact her at all. I no longer feel one way or another about her, but even so, I can't think of any benefit of being friendly with her because I know how she is. Plus I've filled that void with so many nicer and more interesting people, so I don't give her a second's thought (other than to laugh and revel in my freedom from her miserable presence).

I'm trying to view this situation as a test of resolve because of how far I've come. Gotta admit though while I've had my fun dating around - finding a quality female to fill that space she used to occupy has become such a chore. I wonder if I'm just not doing enough to allow it to happen. I feel it more than ever these days because of my age and everyone around me moving on in their lives.

 

[Black Widow Void]

Well said.

I'd like to add in her case she doesn't seek sympathy for her condition - I mean she practically hid it from me for as long as possible. Ultimately I was never given a fair chance to even see if this thing could work even though chances were slim just based on her condition and refusal of actual medication - she self medicates with a lot of weed, which is what many BP's do. That was then though, remember I don't know if those parameters have changed.

Being out of the loop factored in with reflecting and not feeling "invited in" (her lack of opening up to you) can also create anxiety. I've experienced this and it sounds like you may be as well.

Unlike some forum members, I don't make snap decisions of running (once it's discovered that they have an unpleasant past or mental/emotional issues). There's always an exception to the rule, but it is indeed the exception.

From my past experience..... when I've noticed that it starts eating at me or in my head I think of what I "could have done" or "should have done." ... I back away. I say this because as mentioned in my previous response, we become sucked into a whirlwind. Avoiding this type of situation isn't being "selfish" or "uncaring." It's looking after our own mental and emotional well-being .

 

[Stuffnu]

She’s looking for her therapist again. Respectfully, you can’t be a Captain Save a Ho.
These types of girls are mentally exhausting.
This is about you - not her. Back away and focus your energies towards other girls.
Even if it takes awhile, a girl without the baggage is always worth the wait.

 

[Barrister]

The fact you made a thread title about your ex and then wrote a book afterwards told me all I needed to know without me reading a single word of your post, OP. You are not over your ex -- you are not over the drug (her) that you were hooked on for so long and got off 2 years ago. This means that under no circumstances should you be talking to her. This is classic -- ex reaches out for attention/validation and you think she wants the full-on LTR back and begin going with that mindset only to be burned again when it is all said and done. Don't do it. You are better than that.

Keep seeing the women you are seeing now. If you aren't seeing women right now, change that. But under no circumstances do anything more than just be cordial to your ex. If you don't think you can even speak to her without old feelings welling up, then don't speak to her at all. It is that simple. Good luck, brother.

 

[MysteryMuchacho]

The fact you made a thread title about your ex and then wrote a book afterwards told me all I needed to know without me reading a single word of your post, OP. You are not over your ex -- you are not over the drug (her) that you were hooked on for so long and got off 2 years ago. This means that under no circumstances should you be talking to her. This is classic -- ex reaches out for attention/validation and you think she wants the full-on LTR back and begin going with that mindset only to be burned again when it is all said and done. Don't do it. You are better than that.

Keep seeing the women you are seeing now. If you aren't seeing women right now, change that. But under no circumstances do anything more than just be cordial to your ex. If you don't think you can even speak to her without old feelings welling up, then don't speak to her at all. It is that simple. Good luck, brother.

The funny thing is I originally wasn't going to tell the backstory - it was just going to be to the point. As I wrote it, it just came off hollow like how could anyone really understand the position I was coming from if I was just like "X reached out 4 times - why?

However, there's clearly a truth to your comments and the remnants of a slightly exposed wire when it comes to her - albeit I'm not thinking about a LTR. Throughout most of the times she contacted me - I used it as a challenge to see where I was at. I proved I could just be friendly rather than resentful (don't want to live in the negativity of what happened). Afterwards, I'd just move on about my day and expected nothing further of it. It's just that the amount of times she's reach out has been stacking up and what I thought to be impossible has now happened. It made me question whether I'm being too rigid about never reaching out to her again.

Ignoring her never felt like an option because it seemed petty and this is someone who's well-being I still care very much about. After witnessing that episode of hers and lack of real support around her - I dunno how to explain it. I've seen the phrase trauma bonded thrown around on forums before.

In the end though - this is just typical validation stuff from her huh? Not that she misses some part me and is attempting to re-connect to it or some half ass attempt to set the stage for a future apology? People with Bipolar carry a tremendous amount of shame with them.

 

[Dr.Suave]

We are coworkers. Feelings developed for 8 long months and then we dated for 7months. She told me she had bad PTSD/Anxiety from a rape, so I took my time with her along with the fact that I was slightly apprehensive about dating a coworker. Intuition was screaming at me something was up. I instigated an argument. T

I regretted every second of that argument and went on a hero's quest to rekindle what we had.

My heart broke for her. I felt like it was my call to arms to be a better man and more vulnerable with her because I had COMPLETELY missed the boat with this stuff when we dated. The next morning I texted her to let her know how much I cared, that I was there for her, and that I was not going anywhere. Initially she really appreciated it then 24 hours later I get a text telling me she needs to be alone, to work on her toxic anger, and work on herself. It was mostly downhill from there - my efforts were rebuffed and I was walking on egg shells with a person I no longer recognized. She was very petty towards me and often cited that she hated how I was trying "now instead of before". Then during a lunch we had together in our office, she was acting weird, so I asked why and then she casually dropped it on me - "Oh it's my bipolar" like it was a bad cough or something. At that point I had spent 5 long months trying to get "us" back so sure add this to the mix too - it wasn't going to phase me.

I had been hearing things around the office about her dating an orbiter at our work - she basically had an intergalactic federacy of them. Then at her ensuing bday party I make one passing comment to someone about her being chummy with the orbiter.

Bro! Look at all the red flags and/or mistakes you made. But we are all learning.

Never go back to an ex. Spin plates. Get in shape and STFU

 

[AureliusMaximus]

Walked away. It's been two years. Why is she reaching out?

Welp, here is your answer to your question..

 

[Barrister]

In the end though - this is just typical validation stuff from her huh? Not that she misses some part me and is attempting to re-connect to it or some half ass attempt to set the stage for a future apology? People with Bipolar carry a tremendous amount of shame with them.

You are hitting the nail on the head here. Unfortunately, this is what the red-pill is all about. You think you had some deep impact on this woman's life and that maybe she is wising up and coming around and wants to get back together. What is far more likely is she probably just broke up with some other dude and is looking for ways to get validation/attention while she looks for her next LTR. You are exhibit A. The ex who she thinks probably still likes her and will give her those emotional highs on a temporary basis until she finds someone else she actually wants to date.

Don't be that person for her. Have self-respect. You can be cordial, but I would be unresponsive for the most part. This isn't going to lead anywhere except to more frustration for you.

 

[MysteryMuchacho]

You are hitting the nail on the head here. Unfortunately, this is what the red-pill is all about. You think you had some deep impact on this woman's life and that maybe she is wising up and coming around and wants to get back together. What is far more likely is she probably just broke up with some other dude and is looking for ways to get validation/attention while she looks for her next LTR. You are exhibit A. The ex who she thinks probably still likes her and will give her those emotional highs on a temporary basis until she finds someone else she actually wants to date.

Don't be that person for her. Have self-respect. You can be cordial, but I would be unresponsive for the most part. This isn't going to lead anywhere except to more frustration for you.

Considering I've never reached out to her in the last two years - to assume I'm just gonna roll over and supply some cheap placeholder emotional highs for her would be awfully narcissistic.

 

[AureliusMaximus]

Considering I've never reached out to her in the last two years - to assume I'm just gonna roll over and supply some cheap placeholder emotional highs for her would be awfully narcissistic.

Honestly...
You should just ignore her at best. Why use energy on low quality girl that didn't fit the bill in the first place and already threated you bad?

Don't waste time on a loser.
Take the L!

 

[Modern Man Advice]

First time poster - long time lurker. Apologies ahead of time for the info dump. But I really do appreciate anyone subjecting themselves to it. It's been building for a few weeks and I need it out of my mind.

The Back Story

We are coworkers (different departments now). Feelings developed for 8 long months and then we dated for 7months. She told me she had bad PTSD/Anxiety from a rape, so I took my time with her along with the fact that I was slightly apprehensive about dating a coworker. To say I was ENAMORED with her the first 4 months would be an understatement - I thought I'd found me a long termer, but some odd behaviors began showing themselves and my foot dragging began. One week it all changed - suddenly she went very unresponsive to texts/calls whereas previously she'd respond at the speed of light. Intuition was screaming at me something was up. I instigated an argument. Told her I won't put up with that kind of thing. She cited her feelings had suddenly changed and that I didn't make enough time for us for her to be more comfortable. We parted ways.

I regretted every second of that argument and went on a hero's quest to rekindle what we had. Things were looking on the up and up over the next month and we made plans. Day of she flirted with me all morning over text and IG and then ............. she flaked. She proceeded to post to social media something about her "depression" and videos of getting drunk at a bar with her friend. I finally got her on the phone later that night to have her explain wth happened and I was not prepared for what I heard. It was a full on episode of some kind - chalk full of crying and re-living her rape trauma. She even warned me I wasn't gonna recognize who I was talking to.

My heart broke for her. I felt like it was my call to arms to be a better man and more vulnerable with her because I had COMPLETELY missed the boat with this stuff when we dated. The next morning I texted her to let her know how much I cared, that I was there for her, and that I was not going anywhere. Initially she really appreciated it then 24 hours later I get a text telling me she needs to be alone, to work on her toxic anger, and work on herself. It was mostly downhill from there - my efforts were rebuffed and I was walking on egg shells with a person I no longer recognized. She was very petty towards me and often cited that she hated how I was trying "now instead of before". Then during a lunch we had together in our office, she was acting weird, so I asked why and then she casually dropped it on me - "Oh it's my bipolar" like it was a bad cough or something. At that point I had spent 5 long months trying to get "us" back so sure add this to the mix too - it wasn't going to phase me.

I had been hearing things around the office about her dating an orbiter at our work - she basically had an intergalactic federacy of them. Then at her ensuing bday party I make one passing comment to someone about her being chummy with the orbiter. It got back to her. She went scorched earth on me the next day as a novel flooded into my text messages in what seemed like a matter of seconds. She told me it was none of my business if they were dating or not and then proceeded to talk to me in a way nobody I've ever dated has. I'm talkin' really low blow stuff and on top of that lobbed some crazy accusation that a friend of mine who she's never met sexually groped her at that bday party. There was no talking her down off any of this and then came the final shank - something bad would happen to me if I ever tried to reach out to her again and she didn't want to ever speak to me for the rest of her life.

I really didn't know what she was capable of at that point. Absolutely befuddled as to how it all deteriorated so horribly - I gave up. I moved on with my life fully expecting to never hear from her again. Life's f-d sometimes though - I mean my call to arms to be a better man marched my unsuspecting ass right into the gnashing teeth of her bipolar. THAT'S how I was rewarded for having a genuine personal awakening. For a while I was very resentful, especially for how long she kept that important nugget from me and gaslighting me into thinking I was the only one at fault. Chicken or the egg right? Was it really because I didn't make enough time for us or because she didn't tell me about her bipolar earlier enough to give me a chance to understand what I was really working with?

The "Now"

Ironically COVID and the ensuing "work from home" has given me the space I needed these last two years to get back to me. I've never reached out to her, but much to my disbelief she's reached out four times. Three of those were via work chat (separated by many months) and most recent was two weeks ago (a few days after her bday). They always start the same i.e. she's reaching out about insignificant work stuff and then we get to laughing about other things exchanging a few funny GIF's in the process.

The chats usually last 15-20mins, but I never talk about "us" not even the time she said she knows "we don't conversate anymore, but was dying to tell me something." Ummmm you basically threatened I should never talk to you again! Then again - people with bipolar have horrible blackouts so who knows what she remembers. I took it as a challenge to just be friendly and leave it at that. In this last chat she dropped the whole "hope your holidays were good". I mentioned I had thought of her the other day (her bday) and happy belated.

The remaining time she reached out was by text 12 months ago via a strange #. She claimed I should know who it was. A small part of me wondered if it was her - but then again my mindset was that it wasn't possible based on how it ended between her and I. She was showing off a cropped pic of the new boob job she got (something she swore she'd never do, but knew I liked big tits). She wanted to get off with me, but I couldn't tell if it was just via pics or actual sex. I told her we could, but she's gotta tell me who she was - she never did and I never heard from that # again. It wasn't until I was cleaning out my old phone a month ago when I stumbled upon old pics and sure enough clues officially tying her back to that sext.

I legitimately thought I was over all of this, but apparently there's still an exposed wire amidst the pile. Why though? Why reach out after the way it ended and the way she spoke to me? Is it because she doesn't know how to apologize? Unfortunately the cynical thought is she reaches out when she's feeling manic from her bipolar. But man, a part of me wonders "what if" I had just dropped her name in that text - where would it have led? Instead, I refused to let myself believe it could be her.

Simply put, she is hindering your masculine energy. Let go, focus on yourself, and get out there.


Modern Man Advice

 

[typical]

So I came back and read the rest of the thread.

There is nothing to be gained or anything new to be learnt with any interaction with this woman. Let it go if you can but be polite and respectful (its a trait all too lacking these days). It does sound like you still have an attachment to this woman so be careful with anything you do or say.

You still need to kill that inner Beta that wants the "perfect marriage" and settle down and have kids etc. This ideology is easier said than done and most men struggle to get a hold over it. By no means am I saying not to look for a lifelong partner and perhaps love BUT not every single woman that fits the criteria actually fits the criteria, your brain tries to mold the person to fit into whatever fantasy you may be consciously or subconsciously holding onto.

As an example I'm nearly 38 now and been spinning plates for a good part of 12 years now. Many plates fall and break and never return and others stop spinning and fade away only to return a few months or years later. They all know how I am and that I don't want to settle down and have kids (just yet) as I still have some life goals to achieve. I was a competitive kickboxer in my youth and avid sailor to the point where I could have gone Olympics and perhaps (if drugs didn't get in the way) onto an America's Cup team, so I'm hoping that maybe before I'm 45 I can still achieve something in that realm.

The above example is what Men in general should be aiming at becoming (I'm not perfect nor have I fixed all my flaws) but having a mindset like this should help to alleviate a lot of issues we men have when dealing with women. Once you have a few huge life goals aside from marriage and kids then suddenly everything starts to make sense and fall into place. It's not perfect and there is always more to learn but your focus becomes laser sharp and nothing fazes you.

It all comes back to Pook and Rollo, fix your own life and embrace it as best you can and everything else falls into place and you stop worrying or carrying about the rubbish.