Does speaking well and expressing yourself correctly work against attracting women?

[Stoic Warrior]

Is it better to use simpler language and a more informal style?

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Don't know where I saw it but one study showed that less than perfect articulation with informal language is more attractive.

Perfect pronunciation and "high level," polite language is perceived as a more feminine trait.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

What types of women? A high power white collar or upper level management would also like less than perfect language?

 

[Stoic Warrior]

What types of women? A high power white collar or upper level management would also like less than perfect language?

I think it applies in general.

 

[SW15]

I'd say so. I'm well spoken. I write well. It's been a battle with women over 20+ years. Speaking well and expressing myself correctly has been a lesser problem. My biggest problem over time has been using websites/swipe apps and cold approaching to meet women as compared to having a social circle. In marketing terms, this is more a Place (distribution channels) problem than a Product problem. Speaking well and expressing yourself correctly would be a product problem.

I have simplified my writing as compared to my early 20s. I still use proper grammar and don't swear.

What types of women? A high power white collar or upper level management would also like less than perfect language?

Continuing the marketing analogy, this is a target market thing. Speaking well will not intimidate a white collar woman with an upper middle class or higher background. A lower middle class or lower class background women could have issues with a well spoken guy.

 

[RangerMIke]

No not really.

But men should really work on being able to get to the point when you talk. Talking too much is not a masculine trait. Think before you speak, I actually surprised that most men don't do this.... they just ramble on like dumb@sses. When you are in front of a chick, this is what you should do.

(1) Listen to what she is saying... REALLY listen.
(2) Respond to what she is saying, do not try to direct the conversation... just go with what is happening.
(3) Think fast about what you are about to say then ask if what's about to come out of your fvcking mouth is going to help you... if it isn't then keep your mouth shut.
(4) Think fast about what you are going to say then figure out how you can make your point with the fewest amount of words possible.
(5) It is always MUCH better to let silence happen rather then filling voids with cr@p.
(6) Speak slowly... never let what you are saying be punctuated with 'filler words' ('like', 'I mean' 'uh'.'you know') when you do this it's your brain telling you that you are talking too fast. It is better to speak slowly than contaminate your statement with pointless BS.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I don't see how speaking clearly would hurt. However focusing on things like syntax, consistency, logic, etc is huge mistake, since women don't care about those things, they only care about the moment to moment emotions you are causing them to experience.

 

[Grounded eagle]

Not in my experience.I think what you’re saying matters more.

 

[SargeMaximus]

Yup. A man with a semi erection has less blood in the brain. Hence a sexual man can’t also be an intellectual

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

Women tend to steer into dysfunction I find

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I don't see how speaking clearly would hurt. However focusing on things like syntax, consistency, logic, etc is huge mistake, since women don't care about those things, they only care about the moment to moment emotions you are causing them to experience.

What about an intellectual woman? What about a by the book driven achiever?

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

What about an intellectual woman? What about a by the book driven achiever?

I don't know because I've never met any. Recently I met girl who claimed to be into Stoicism like me, but later found out she only read one book by some millenial clown named Ryan Holiday. As soon as I mentioned the ancient Greek/Roman Stoic philosophers who I loved, she lost interest and the conversation fizzled out.

Finding a woman who is genuinely intellectual and reads not to impress people but out of interest and necessity is a rarity. It's hard to say if it would help build attraction...good conversation and chemistry is definitely great to have but intellectual conversation isn't very sexy. Seems better to save it for a later stage in the relationship.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I don't know because I've never met any. Recently I met girl who claimed to be into Stoicism like me, but and later found out she only read one book by some millenial clown named Ryan Holiday. As soon as I mentioned the ancient Greek/Roman Stoic philosophers who I loved, she lost interest and the conversation fizzled out.

Finding a woman who is genuinely intellectual and reads not to impress people but out of interest and necessity is a rarity. It's hard to say if it would help build attraction...good conversation and chemistry is definitely great to have but intellectu al conversation isn't very sexy. Seems better to save it for a later stage in the relationship.

Your last statement resonates. For most of them if they sense high intelligence in you they will revert to a devaluation mode for you. So one needs to be able to speak more "common", and hide their intelligence.

 

[RangerMIke]

I don't see how speaking clearly would hurt. However focusing on things like syntax, consistency, logic, etc is huge mistake, since women don't care about those things, they only care about the moment to moment emotions you are causing them to experience.

True... women care more about what your body language is saying rather than what is coming out of your mouth. Talking doesn't really help you, but can hurt you. Conversations with women you are trying to impress is more about not making mistakes than saying something that will help you.

If she likes you she will laugh at your stupid jokes, and think mistakes you make in communication is 'cute'.

 

[RangerMIke]

What about an intellectual woman? What about a by the book driven achiever?

The intellectual woman is still a woman, meaning she is more concerned about what she is saying and how you respond to her than what you have to say. She is going to more concerned if you are listening than what you are saying. All you really need to learn to say is "I never thought of it that way before." and "tell me more". Just let her talk, wait for her to ask what you think about something, then respond with honesty without being a d1ck.

The key is to only talk 25% of the time you are with her. If she isn't talking, just fvcking walk away because she doesn't like you. If she isn't talking then you are done.

Works every time.

 

[SW15]

The intellectual woman is still a woman

The intellectual woman is one of the more annoying types of woman.

Less educated women tend to be more feminine. They can sometimes be more flaky and less reliable. They can do some dumb stuff.

I find a decent blend for a woman is a BA/BS from a non-elite school. Women with BA/BS degrees from elite schools, women with master's degrees, and women with PhD/MDs tend to be less feminine.

Dental hygieniests can be good women. That's a trade school degree, which is less than a BA/BS degree but it takes some effort to complete that.

Seducing the female cashier from Walmart vs. seducing a dental hygienist vs. seducing a creative in an advertising agency vs. seducing a female lawyer are all slightly different blends of game.

Speaking well will produce the best results with the female lawyer.

 

[Atom Smasher]

I have always found that the best balance for me is to speak a little above her level. Keep it casual, but throw in a word here and there that you know she has no idea what it means. This keeps you relatable but adds in some verbal dominance.

 

[BadBoy89]

Speaking -> formal. What a man says, he has to assume she is recording him and it will be shown to 12 jurors who are feminists and hate men.

Writing -> very formal. What a man writes, he has to assume it is being shown to 12 jurors who are feminists and hate men, and a judge who wished all men were dead.

Actions -> within reason, do whatever you want. Actions can be interpreted in many ways. Even if she is recording you. There are a lot of ways to interpret actions to the judge.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Speaking -> formal. What a man says, he has to assume she is recording him and it will be shown to 12 jurors who are feminists and hate men.

Writing -> very formal. What a man writes, he has to assume it is being shown to 12 jurors who are feminists and hate men, and a judge who wished all men were dead.

Actions -> within reason, do whatever you want. Actions can be interpreted in many ways. Even if she is recording you. There are a lot of ways to interpret actions to the judge.

Those rules should promote a man encouraging her to do all the talking.

 

[Stoic Warrior]

I'd say so. I'm well spoken. I write well. It's been a battle with women over 20+ years. Speaking well and expressing myself correctly has been a lesser problem. My biggest problem over time has been using websites/swipe apps and cold approaching to meet women as compared to having a social circle. In marketing terms, this is more a Place (distribution channels) problem than a Product problem. Speaking well and expressing yourself correctly would be a product problem.

I have simplified my writing as compared to my early 20s. I still use proper grammar and don't swear.



Continuing the marketing analogy, this is a target market thing. Speaking well will not intimidate a white collar woman with an upper middle class or higher background. A lower middle class or lower class background women could have issues with a well spoken guy.

I understand the distinction between a market issue and a product issue, but in this case I think it's related to both. It's like the way of dressing, it should be adapted to the market but in general it's better to go too informal than too elegant to be more attractive.

What reflects independence, rebellion and strength gives points of attraction.

What reflects being a sheep of the flock (gregariousness), dependence and weakness subtracts points of attraction.