Indifference vs. Reaction

[Robert28]

I’ve always been confused about this too. In the pua mind set you have to be indifferent but when it comes to a general and “who knows what that means” term like disrespect, you have to care. So it always confused me

That’s because there is no one right answer. Everyone is different. What you might find disrespectful I would let slide and vise versa. You can’t follow a bunch of rules about what’s tolerable and what isn’t, you have to figure that out for yourself.

 

[SargeMaximus]

That’s because there is no one right answer. Everyone is different. What you might find disrespectful I would let slide and vise versa. You can’t follow a bunch of rules about what’s tolerable and what isn’t, you have to figure that out for yourself.

Yeah but what if you prefer to next a girl than to put your foot down like I do? Like, the idea of being the behaviour police for a woman turns me right off

 

[HaleyBaron]

I'm indifferent when I don't have the time for a girl. I'm reacting when I do [cause I'm spending my time with her, and rather not waste it with silly games].

 

[Robert28]

Yeah but what if you prefer to next a girl than to put your foot down like I do? Like, the idea of being the behaviour police for a woman turns me right off

I’ll give you an example. There’s this girl Kelly that I went out with maybe 9-10 years ago. We went on two dates and she basically ghosted me after that. She popped back in my life like 3 weeks ago sliding into my DM’s on Facebook talking about “hey you! How’ve you been?”. She still looks basically the same but I’ve given her hell abiut ghosting me and we’ve joked about it. We are actually supposed to go out this weekend. Now the rule is if a girl ghosts you that’s it for life, but I bent my rule for her because let’s face it she’s still a looker and we have some mutual friends so it’ll be cool to catch up. I’m not even looking at this as a date, more of a hangout.

 

[HaleyBaron]

I’ll give you an example. There’s this girl Kelly that I went out with maybe 9-10 years ago. We went on two dates and she basically ghosted me after that. She popped back in my life like 3 weeks ago sliding into my DM’s on Facebook talking about “hey you! How’ve you been?”. She still looks basically the same but I’ve given her hell abiut ghosting me and we’ve joked about it. We are actually supposed to go out this weekend. Now the rule is if a girl ghosts you that’s it for life, but I bent my rule for her because let’s face it she’s still a looker and we have some mutual friends so it’ll be cool to catch up. I’m not even looking at this as a date, more of a hangout.

Make sure to treat her like **** the entire time. I'm not joking. Your dignity will not let you go otherwise. I want you talking to any pretty girl in her vicinity. I want you not paying for anything for her. If you break one rule, I'm kicking your ass myself.

 

[Robert28]

You wanna smash. Just be honest about that.

Oh definitely. But I made her ask me out, I wasn’t about to do it. When she said “we should get together sometime” I knew I had a shot. I’m a different guy now than back then.

 

[Robert28]

Make sure to treat her like **** the entire time. I'm not joking. Your dignity will not let you go otherwise. I want you talking to any pretty girl in her vicinity. I want you not paying for anything for her. If you break one rule, I'm kicking your ass myself.

Oh I’m not paying for ****. She better bring her credit card or she will be in a pickle. We aren’t doing dinner or anything like that, strictly a bar near our house.

 

[SargeMaximus]

I’ll give you an example. There’s this girl Kelly that I went out with maybe 9-10 years ago. We went on two dates and she basically ghosted me after that. She popped back in my life like 3 weeks ago sliding into my DM’s on Facebook talking about “hey you! How’ve you been?”. She still looks basically the same but I’ve given her hell abiut ghosting me and we’ve joked about it. We are actually supposed to go out this weekend. Now the rule is if a girl ghosts you that’s it for life, but I bent my rule for her because let’s face it she’s still a looker and we have some mutual friends so it’ll be cool to catch up. I’m not even looking at this as a date, more of a hangout.

No I’m talking about me not some girl. I dont prefer to “put her in her place” but just next and find another girl. Because some women get off on a man putting them in their place and I won’t be their on demand stimulant

 

[SargeMaximus]

The difference is with a plate. You kick her out and tell her tgtfo. (Ofcourse as a fellow human)
"Wow look at the time I got an early morning tomorrow" i better get going"

Now a wife? Or Gf I would hope you have already trained her. Vetted her and she won't go there with you.

Yeah but even the idea of training a girl sounds exhausting and not worth my time

 

[Robert28]

No I’m talking about me not some girl. I dont prefer to “put her in her place” but just next and find another girl. Because some women get off on a man putting them in their place and I won’t be their on demand stimulant

See to me the men that have to constantly put a woman in her place are the same dudes that live off of drama. To me that isn’t masculine at all. It goes back to the fact that women have no clue about the difference between confidence and ****iness until too late and they’ve usually picked the wrong one thinking it was true confidence but in reality all it was is some loud mouthed dork who’s pretending.

 

[HaleyBaron]

Whenever the idea of this comes up, just look at pics of men in power vs the women they are with. I remember a great thread back on Roosh of showing the difference between beta pictures and ones of masculine power. This was one of my favorites:

 

[SargeMaximus]

See to me the men that have to constantly put a woman in her place are the same dudes that live off of drama. To me that isn’t masculine at all. It goes back to the fact that women have no clue about the difference between confidence and ****iness until too late and they’ve usually picked the wrong one thinking it was true confidence but in reality all it was is some loud mouthed dork who’s pretending.

I’m with you there. I don’t like drama either

 

[tightsocks]

I'm about to break up with my girlfriend and even though she's kinda crazy, I know I made a lot of mistakes and I'd like to use this to learn for the future.

When we first started dating she'd mention other guys being attractive and stuff like that. I would usually just brush it off. I mean I didn't want to come off as being insecure, we weren't a couple yet or anything, even though it did bother me a little. It was more confusion than anything else; not really knowing why she would say these things around a guy she's starting to date.

Fast forward a few months and we're a couple. She still does that and even more often than before. She's got tons of guy friends, see's them a lot and tells me about all the crazy parties she goes to with them. Now this is where I probably messed up big time. I still brush it off, act like I don't care. I do care though, it bothers me a lot and makes me really angry.

I have a really relaxed, detatched personality and I thought that was the right way to be with girls; to not get cought up in their games and be above it. But it seems like she's pushing me hard to react, get angry. She's even started to "laughingly" insult me in passing.

Am I supposed to get upset? Confront her? Is that what she wants? Or did I just find a really messed up girl?

I'm just really confused. I thought not being the jealous, reactive guy was the best way to act. The result in this case is that she just walks all over me.

Patrice talks about this all the time. If she comments about another man being attractive you need to tell her she should go fvck him. In fact, if she keeps this up, you should encourage her to go fvck as many guys as she can. Women DO NOT want to fvck tons of random guys. They want one guy to share their life with. Agree and amplify. Make sure you have other plates to fvck as well if she actually takes your advice (99% chance she won't).

 

[rjc149]

If she comments about another man being attractive you need to tell her she should go fvck him. In fact, if she keeps this up, you should encourage her to go fvck as many guys as she can.

The tone and delivery of this is EVERYTHING. It has to be playful and indifferent. Yes, it's okay for a woman to find other men attractive. It's okay for you to find other women attractive. It's okay to make a passing comment about it once in a while. We're all human. But make no mistake, if she makes that comment to you, this is a sh!t test. It cannot rattle you. I think simply agreeing, "yeah, he is a good-looking fella" rather than saying "then go fvck him" is the better way to handle it.

If commenting on another men's attractiveness becomes frequent or overt, or sexual, this is no longer a sh!t test. This is disrespect. Disrespect is almost always a symptom of falling attraction. It's usually because you're not enforcing boundaries in other areas of your relationship, OR, (less commonly) because she feels the emotional connection is weak and wants a reaction from you to assure her you still care. You will need to calibrate from there, based on your own audit of your behavior in the relationship. Either way it can be corrected with a behavior shift, but a woman who is disrespecting you like this is usually too high maintenance to be a good long-term prospect. Just know that.

If it's a weak boundary issue, set it straight as soon as you feel it's disrespectful. Just tell her "Hey, that's disrespectful. I'm not drooling over other women in front of you, right?" She will either apologize and comply, happy that you're strong enough to set a boundary, or scoff it off in dismissal. In which case, plan your exit. She's already planning hers.

If it's a weak connection issue, have the same reaction, but tone down the "alpha" game a little and be a little warmer.

Again, you'll need to audit your own relationship to figure out which of these it is.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Just pointing out that this thread is from 2008 - so the fellas addressing the OP directly probably aren't going to hear from him.

I do think it is an interesting discussion between showing indifference so as to not appear insecure vs. putting your foot down to not let them cross boundaries. My experience: be indifferent to minor things. However, when it comes to things like being inappropriate with other men, you set a hard-line boundary and be very clear about it. If she crosses the boundary after you have discussed it with her ONCE, you then walk. No questions asked. Because if she does it once it will be a continuing battle and your staying after that point is your implicit agreement to keep tolerating it on some level. I have learned this the hard way.

This is how I have learned to operate. When I was married and blue-pilled, I made the mistake of focusing too much on "not appearing insecure" so I'd let her do things that I shouldn't have. Now I know better, and I set a hard boundaries that I am clear about. Part of the fear I used to have in doing this was related to worrying about looking insecure, but also worrying that I would be somehow "wrong" in my belief on what was vs wasn't acceptable and instead of making my OWN decision on that based on what *I* want, I let her tell me what was right vs wrong (after all, she sounded really convinced in herself lol) usually during some sort of "debate" or argument that I would "lose" because you can't win a debate with a woman. When you create boundaries and enforce them by walking away, it doesn't matter if the girl thinks you are insecure or not. She has filtered herself out. If she thinks guys who don't want her hanging out 1:1 with other men are insecure, then she can find some other guy who isn't "insecure" by her definition.

If commenting on another men's attractiveness becomes frequent or overt, or sexual, this is no longer a sh!t test. This is disrespect. Disrespect is almost always a symptom of falling attraction. It's usually because you're not enforcing boundaries in other areas of your relationship, OR, (less commonly) because she feels the emotional connection is weak and wants a reaction from you to assure her you still care. You will need to calibrate from there, based on your own audit of your behavior in the relationship. Either way it can be corrected with a behavior shift, but a woman who is disrespecting you like this is usually too high maintenance to be a good long-term prospect. Just know that.

Preach.

 

[SargeMaximus]

The tone and delivery of this is EVERYTHING. It has to be playful and indifferent. Yes, it's okay for a woman to find other men attractive. It's okay for you to find other women attractive. It's okay to make a passing comment about it once in a while. We're all human. But make no mistake, if she makes that comment to you, this is a sh!t test. It cannot rattle you. I think simply agreeing, "yeah, he is a good-looking fella" rather than saying "then go fvck him" is the better way to handle it.

If commenting on another men's attractiveness becomes frequent or overt, or sexual, this is no longer a sh!t test. This is disrespect. Disrespect is almost always a symptom of falling attraction. It's usually because you're not enforcing boundaries in other areas of your relationship, OR, (less commonly) because she feels the emotional connection is weak and wants a reaction from you to assure her you still care. You will need to calibrate from there, based on your own audit of your behavior in the relationship. Either way it can be corrected with a behavior shift, but a woman who is disrespecting you like this is usually too high maintenance to be a good long-term prospect. Just know that.

If it's a weak boundary issue, set it straight as soon as you feel it's disrespectful. Just tell her "Hey, that's disrespectful. I'm not drooling over other women in front of you, right?" She will either apologize and comply, happy that you're strong enough to set a boundary, or scoff it off in dismissal. In which case, plan your exit. She's already planning hers.

If it's a weak connection issue, have the same reaction, but tone down the "alpha" game a little and be a little warmer.

Again, you'll need to audit your own relationship to figure out which of these it is.

My fwb and I drool over celebrities and porn stars (in my case). Harmless fun

 

[dude99]

I'm about to break up with my girlfriend and even though she's kinda crazy, I know I made a lot of mistakes and I'd like to use this to learn for the future.

When we first started dating she'd mention other guys being attractive and stuff like that. I would usually just brush it off. I mean I didn't want to come off as being insecure, we weren't a couple yet or anything, even though it did bother me a little. It was more confusion than anything else; not really knowing why she would say these things around a guy she's starting to date.

Fast forward a few months and we're a couple. She still does that and even more often than before. She's got tons of guy friends, see's them a lot and tells me about all the crazy parties she goes to with them. Now this is where I probably messed up big time. I still brush it off, act like I don't care. I do care though, it bothers me a lot and makes me really angry.

I have a really relaxed, detatched personality and I thought that was the right way to be with girls; to not get cought up in their games and be above it. But it seems like she's pushing me hard to react, get angry. She's even started to "laughingly" insult me in passing.

Am I supposed to get upset? Confront her? Is that what she wants? Or did I just find a really messed up girl?

I'm just really confused. I thought not being the jealous, reactive guy was the best way to act. The result in this case is that she just walks all over me.

She is S#IT testing you.

Being relaxed and brushing it off is the right thing to do. Don't react. Don't give her shiit tests any reaction at all. Don't focus energy where is isn't deserved.

Just say this to her. "Hey this was fun but i am going to see other people. This suited me briefly but it is over now. I don't see a future for us. We are on completley different pages at the moment. Good luck and good bye."

 

[2Rocky]

My fwb and I drool over celebrities and porn stars (in my case). Harmless fun

Agree and amplify.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

I'm about to break up with my girlfriend and even though she's kinda crazy, I know I made a lot of mistakes and I'd like to use this to learn for the future.

When we first started dating she'd mention other guys being attractive and stuff like that. I would usually just brush it off. I mean I didn't want to come off as being insecure, we weren't a couple yet or anything, even though it did bother me a little. It was more confusion than anything else; not really knowing why she would say these things around a guy she's starting to date.

Fast forward a few months and we're a couple. She still does that and even more often than before. She's got tons of guy friends, see's them a lot and tells me about all the crazy parties she goes to with them. Now this is where I probably messed up big time. I still brush it off, act like I don't care. I do care though, it bothers me a lot and makes me really angry.

I have a really relaxed, detatched personality and I thought that was the right way to be with girls; to not get cought up in their games and be above it. But it seems like she's pushing me hard to react, get angry. She's even started to "laughingly" insult me in passing.

Am I supposed to get upset? Confront her? Is that what she wants? Or did I just find a really messed up girl?

I'm just really confused. I thought not being the jealous, reactive guy was the best way to act. The result in this case is that she just walks all over me.

Myron us an example of reactive. Nonreactive. Not going in on f&f. Guys are hilarious. That's not game!

Reactive is no solution. If she breaks boundaries gtfo! You are done!