Who are women actually dating and how do they find them?

[Velasco]

But these same types of girls, if I just boldly walk up to them and talk to them without them first noticing me or looking at me, 95% of the time it works out well. I've found the issue with looking for IOIs is that girls really don't want to appear easy and they want to appear high-value so they will often deliberately see a guy they think is hot and just look the other way as if they either were completely disinterested in him or just didn't see him.

spot on.

 

[AttackFormation]

If I waited for an IOI, I wouldn't have got the date.

I know that this can be the case too because cold approaching without IOI is how i got rid of my virginity. The thing is, i also read stuff like this:

"For example: one of the most obvious non-verbal signs that a woman wants to be left alone is that she’ll refuse to make eye-contact. Locking eyes is one of the classic approach invitations, so she’ll go out of her way to not meet anyone’s eyes. Staring straight ahead, looking down, staring resolutely at her phone, giving the thousand yard stare or resolutely looking anywhere but at a person are all signs that she’s trying to avoid giving someone the idea that she wants to talk to anyone. Similarly, she may use obstacles – especially clothes or accessories like a hoodies or sunglasses – as a physical barriers to eye-contact.

Wearing headphones or earbuds are another universal “do not disturb” sign; in fact, many people will wear earbuds without actually listening to music specifically so people will leave them alone. It’s another way of putting a physical barrier between themselves and someone trying to get their attention."

... And i think to myself, "this is how almost all women i see outside behave". Now i know youll say that you just have to do it anyway. And to at least try to get any results, you are indeed right. But getting through that... hoo boy. It's really mentally difficult because it's so far out of the norm for social behavior. I think i need better self-talk... instead of telling yourself something negative because she's focused on her phone, tell yourself she just hasnt noticed you yet because she's looking at her phone, and she'll be pleased to talk to you...

 

[oldmanofthesea]

I know that this can be the case too because cold approaching without IOI is how i got rid of my virginity. The thing is, i also read stuff like this:

"For example: one of the most obvious non-verbal signs that a woman wants to be left alone is that she’ll refuse to make eye-contact. Locking eyes is one of the classic approach invitations, so she’ll go out of her way to not meet anyone’s eyes. Staring straight ahead, looking down, staring resolutely at her phone, giving the thousand yard stare or resolutely looking anywhere but at a person are all signs that she’s trying to avoid giving someone the idea that she wants to talk to anyone. Similarly, she may use obstacles – especially clothes or accessories like a hoodies or sunglasses – as a physical barriers to eye-contact.

Wearing headphones or earbuds are another universal “do not disturb” sign; in fact, many people will wear earbuds without actually listening to music specifically so people will leave them alone. It’s another way of putting a physical barrier between themselves and someone trying to get their attention."

... And i think to myself, "this is how almost all women i see outside behave". Now i know youll say that you just have to do it anyway. And to at least try to get any results, you are indeed right. But getting through that... hoo boy. It's really mentally difficult because it's so far out of the norm for social behavior.

I literally disagree with all of what was written in the section of what was posted there. All that does is reinforce men's brainwashing that women don't want to be approached. Women don't get approached by men that often in broad daylight - certainly not enough to consider putting in headphones to avoid getting hassled.

I could write so much more but I'm going to cut to the chase: STOP WORRYING ABOUT WHAT WOMEN WANT and start worrying about what YOU want. Give women the chance to TELL you they don't want to be bothered - don't just assume they don't because if this little thing or that little thing. Again, 95% of the time most women will be interested in at least talking to you, and a good chunk will be interested in more. The ones who aren't interested almost never reject you in such a way that it really stings. The most common "worst" rejection I get is the girl just keeps on walking without acknowledging me or says "no thanks" after I say hi, but would you believe me if I told you that has only happened to me maybe 5-10 times EVER? It's true.

 

[bat soup]

Im using an OLD app that ive never used before, which gives you a free premium trial. By now my profile has allegedly been shown to hundreds of women through free boosts, but ive only got a single like out of it - with a woman who put no effort in and later unmatched me.

My barber a few days ago told me that last time, her next customer after me asked if i was a "photo model", and she too went on about it and said i should try it... I say that to give the proper perspective for my next question which is, if none of them think im good enough, who the fvck are they dating? and how do they meet them? The women on that app dont drink and dont go to clubs, so it cant be that they are simply hooking up with the local club Chads, though i will give that they might find men through antisocial media. Are they actually as lonely as men are?

I just dont see how this social situation can hold in the long run.

Most of the women on online dating are there for attention or to promote their stupid Instagram pages, where they think they will be able to make enough money to buy a Ferrari just by showing a few bikini shots. What they don't understand is that even if they're pretty and they get attention, they're competing for attention with millions of others just like them.

I think only the most desperate or the most attention-seeking women are on there, because basically to women **** is like tap water. Any decent-looking woman doesn't need an app or a dating site to meet a guy - they are totally spoiled for choice already. Every time they leave the house they get guys approaching - so why would they need an app to find a guy? That would involve too much work - moving their fingers and so on. You can't expect a woman to make that much effort.

I wish Tinder and other similar apps were forced to release their ratios: what is the ratio of women to men and what is the average guy's chance of getting a match that actually meets up with them? What is the success rate of the product that they're supposedly selling?

 

[SW15]

Women don't get approached by men that often in broad daylight - certainly not enough to consider putting in headphones to avoid getting hassled.

In the last 3-5 years, I have seen more women wearing earbuds at the grocery store. I think that is being done to avoid approaches. Also, the vast majority of women wear earbuds at the gym, which took off around the late 2000s. That's partially done to avoid approaches.

The ones who aren't interested almost never reject you in such a way that it really stings. The most common "worst" rejection I get is the girl just keeps on walking without acknowledging me or says "no thanks" after I say hi, but would you believe me if I told you that has only happened to me maybe 5-10 times EVER? It's true.

Most rejections are mild. Mild rejections can be annoying though.

 

[AttackFormation]

I've found the issue with looking for IOIs is that girls really don't want to appear easy and they want to appear high-value so they will often deliberately see a guy they think is hot and just look the other way as if they either were completely disinterested in him or just didn't see him.

Ive got more (practical) things i wanna ask you, but after reading this part to explain their behavior, first of all i wanna know: do you think women should ever have to put in the slightest effort or take any accountability for anything? it's a genuine question. From mindset, to signals, to approaching, to conversating in an attractive and exciting way, to enduring negatives, to escalating, to making sure the sex is enjoyable - it feels like in every detail of everything, the burden of performance is always on the man. How do you think about this? do you think about it at all?

 

[Velasco]

do you think women should ever have to put in the slightest effort or take any accountability for anything?

its her job to help remove obstacles to you banging her. Making it easy for you to bang her.

 

[AttackFormation]

its her job to help remove obstacles to you banging her. Making it easy for you to bang her.

So do you have an example of a woman who did that when you cold approached her, compared to one who didnt?

It also contradicts what oldsea said. He said that women dont want to appear easy and want to appear high value, which is why they intentionally give off disinterested body language, that you are supposed to mind read and approach through anyway. But now you are saying you should expect them to behave the opposite way by making it easy for you.

 

[Velasco]

So do you have an example of a woman who did that when you cold approached her, compared to one who didnt?

It also contradicts what oldsea said. He said that women dont want to appear easy and want to appear high value, which is why they intentionally give off disinterested body language. But now you are saying you should expect them to behave the opposite way and make it easy for you

It's not disinterested body language (this mean she caught a glance at you and thought "eww"). It's more hiding that they are into you. Like you caught a slight tenth of a second them looking at you then they look away fast. So that you kind of doubt yourself for a second (hmm was she looking at me or is that just my imagination?). In this situation you need to follow your instincts (if they are telling you. I think she was. So I'm gonna approach her). This is her not trying to appear easy. Whereas if she didn't care about being perceived as easy, when you looked over she would meet your eyes with a smile. Both those situations you have to approach. It's VERY likely that she likes you. I have had both these outcomes lead to lays.

More what I was talking about, for example, last weekend, I said to these two girls that had just being approached by loser guys, "what did they do wrong? I thought they were doing good? I was trying to take notes" or something self amusing like that. One girl said "idk haha" then kind of body language like she was leaving. The other stayed put, smiling and said, "they were boring" like encouraging me to keep talking to her. This is her making it easy for me. Subcommucations saying, "I'm interested in you."

Lastly this is the latest girl I'm working on, who I have a date with tommorow after work

So I say the days I can see her. And she tells me the whole situation. Allowing me to make the judgement call that will work best in our favor (I know she invite me to join her on night out, but I don't want to deal with her cokblock friends so I opted for daytime meet).

 

[AttackFormation]

It's not disinterested body language (this mean she caught a glance at you and thought "eww"). It's more hiding that they are into you. Like you caught a slight tenth of a second them looking at you then they look away fast. So that you kind of doubt yourself for a second (hmm was she looking at me or is that just my imagination?). In this situation you need to follow your instincts (if they are telling you. I think she was. So I'm gonna approach her). This is her not trying to appear easy. Whereas if she didn't care about being perceived as easy, when you looked over she would meet your eyes with a smile. Both those situations you have to approach. It's VERY likely that she likes you. I have had both these outcomes lead to lays.

More what I was talking about, for example, last weekend, I said to these two girls that had just being approached by loser guys, "what did they do wrong? I thought they were doing good? I was trying to take notes" or something self amusing like that. One girl said "idk haha" then kind of body language like she was leaving. The other stayed put, smiling and said, "they were boring" like encouraging me to keep talking to her. This is her making it easy for me. Subcommucations saying, "I'm interested in you."

Lastly this is the latest girl I'm working on, who I have a date with tommorow after work

So I say the days I can see her. And she tells me the whole situation. Allowing me to make the judgement call that will work best in our favor (I don't want to deal with her cokblock friends so I opted for daytime meet).

Funny how women are supposed to be "strong, independent and equal" today, and yet expecting them to do so little as make eye contact or give a slight smile is expecting too much because it might upset their ego, and we have to cater to that like taking care of a fvcking baby. Meanwhile i have to read minds like a jedi and then face my fears while putting in all of the effort. Fvck these bull**** gender relations...

Man i need to get this off my chest... our culture is so stupid, but there is no way to change it...

 

[Velasco]

this is why I think it was roissy who first said, feminism is a big society wide sht test that all men failed.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Ive got more (practical) things i wanna ask you, but after reading this part to explain their behavior, first of all i wanna know: do you think women should ever have to put in the slightest effort or take any accountability for anything? it's a genuine question. From mindset, to signals, to approaching, to conversating in an attractive and exciting way, to enduring negatives, to escalating, to making sure the sex is enjoyable - it feels like in every detail of everything, the burden of performance is always on the man. How do you think about this? do you think about it at all?

All very valid points, but the thought process you are describing is one of a negative spiral. We can be angry, frustrated, confused, and feel that male-female dynamics are totally unfair and stacked against us, but that won't change reality - instead it will only make us more frustrated. Hot girls do hot girl sh*t. It's just the way of the world. We will NEVER change it. So we can sit in anger and frustration over the way things are and feel that we are victims or we can figure out how to play the game to our advantage. It's like being mad at a dog for having fur.

The hell with women putting in effort
The hell with women giving signals
The hell with women approaching you
The hell with women escalating

You cut through all that by just being a man and following the basic principles:
See girl. Approach girl. Girl says no thanks. No problem. Move on to next girl. Repeat until you find a girl who talks to you.
Talk to girl, flirt with girl. Girl isn't putting forth much effort in the conversation but is still talking with you? Then stop talking and just look at her and smile and absolutely BATHE yourself in the awkward silence that ensues until she puts forth an effort or leaves the interaction (GOD I love doing this - there's nothing more powerful feeling than being totally comfortable sitting in awkward silence in front of a stranger who isn't holding up their end of the conversation and knowing they are uncomfortable from it - women actually do this on purpose - it's a kind of test to see what you're made of - only truly confident men can handle sitting there in silence and putting all that pressure on them without releasing it).
Interaction is going well? Great keep it going, flirt. At a high point in the conversation, give her an excuse as to why you have to get going but tell her you'd like to continue the conversation soon (maybe over a drink if you drink). If she says yes then you say "Great, give me your number and I'll set something up."

It's really that simple. Your worst fears of what will happen when you approach a girl are unfounded. This isn't high school. You aren't going to just get pointed at and laughed at and ridiculed. It just doesn't happen!

 

[TheKid]

Pride.
Humble people will always give an arm and a leg, prideful people will not.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

In the last 3-5 years, I have seen more women wearing earbuds at the grocery store. I think that is being done to avoid approaches. Also, the vast majority of women wear earbuds at the gym, which took off around the late 2000s. That's partially done to avoid approaches.

How many times have you seen a man approach a woman in a grocery store? I've literally never once seen it in my life. And if you think about how many times you've gone to the grocery store in your lifetime, you'd think you'd see it right? I'm sure it happens but my point is that I think it's extremely rare. All I know is that when I strike up conversation with a woman in a grocery store, it's like someone scratched a record on a record player - everyone freezes with their avocado or lettuce in hand and stares because the matrix has been broken and they've never seen such a thing before. This to me is more evidence of the rarity of it. I think the real reason you see more headphones is due to the invention of wireless earbuds which just makes it very easy to listen to music, or podcasts (which are big now) on the go.

I'm not a woman though so I don't have first-hand experience, but when I have asked women I have dated how often they get approached by guys, it's far less than you would think. Really almost rare. Most guys just don't have the balls.

 

[Pandora]

Something you may find interesting:

I did some online dating a few years ago. Got a few dates with average women in their late 20s. Didn't end up dating any of them, but friended many of them on facebook at the time. I considered myself to be way out of their league, but obviously they didn't see it the same way - they basically all rejected me, but remained on my facebook to this date.

Now, years later, a quick survey shows every one of them is still single (at least according to facebook). Their photos also indicate that they are still single.

I'm convinced that most of the older women (above age 25) on online dating sites are permanently single. Especially the older dating sites are often the last resort for women to find a guy - they typically try all other methods first. This means that none of their orbiters was good enough for them. Which usually implies that no one is good enough.

100%

 

[Pandora]

Pride.
Humble people will always give an arm and a leg, prideful people will not.
View attachment 6614

yes exactly....perpetually single women have a pride issue. Or in spiritual woo woo terms and unbalanced ego. This quote is great. Identifying when we are in pride consciousness ( ego) is something we can all work on.

 

[Pandora]

You ever done a cold approach that led somewhere?

yes....alot. Cold approaching is the most brutal yet most reliable method. It is also dangerous in todays gynocentric society. If she doesn't think you are cute be careful. The biggest risk is her bf being around so make sure she is not with a male. Cold approaching is scary but there is a thin line between fear and fun.

 

[MatureDJ]

Something you may find interesting:

I did some online dating a few years ago. Got a few dates with average women in their late 20s. Didn't end up dating any of them, but friended many of them on facebook at the time. I considered myself to be way out of their league, but obviously they didn't see it the same way - they basically all rejected me, but remained on my facebook to this date.

Now, years later, a quick survey shows every one of them is still single (at least according to facebook). Their photos also indicate that they are still single.

I'm convinced that most of the older women (above age 25) on online dating sites are permanently single. Especially the older dating sites are often the last resort for women to find a guy - they typically try all other methods first. This means that none of their orbiters was good enough for them. Which usually implies that no one is good enough.

I think they have the "break in case of biological clock" sperm bank contingency plan, where they at least will be able to recombine DNA with a Chad. They will then begin accepting dates with the Betas they had long been rejecting, and then complaining that the Betas aren't "manning up".

True Forced Loneliness prophet "Roller" Steve Hoca calls this "dating limbo".

 

[MatureDJ]

I feel im at a breaking point if i cant start meeting women soon. It feels bizarre that it should be this impossible,

I recommend EscortMaxxing to keep your sanity.

 

[MatureDJ]

I identify. Due to numerous childhood relocations, I could never develop a social circle. Since turning 18, I've also had numerous moves. Even though I'm 38 and have been in the same city 10 years, my social circle is not all that strong.

Since I've not had a social circle since hitting puberty, my 20+ years in the dating/relationships has been about cold approaching and swipe app/websites in the pre-swipe app era.

Both are tough roads.

I went to all-boys Catholic high school, and then majored in STEM, so not having women around is the story of my life. My social circle has always seemed to be fellow bachelor AFCs that would get lucky every once in a while and get some decent women in their circles (that always seemed to slip away), and fat chicks that somehow had glommed into the circle. I've basically had to earn every PU I've done.

One of my friends in this circle took the attitude that as he aged, he would consider women in his age cohort, and it got to the point that he was dating grannies. He didn't have to work much for these dates as he is akin to Norm from Cheers (not fat like that though), and he always seemed to have an acquaintance that had an available 40-something wanting to set him up with.