I want to be a father one day...

[AureliusMaximus]

I'm not in a rush to have a kid, I'm only 26,

Time moves fast dude. Do you want to be an old fart or a "younger" dad that can actually do fun **** with his kids?
Don't wait too long...

With that said; Marriage is bad option these days as family laws always favor women. You will lose. But hey do you really need a paper to say "I love you?" Right?

 

[AureliusMaximus]

some truth to that dual thing that final is always telling. consider the man AND the girl in this video, both victim of her and a dude that is no good and her biology

ONEITS is a killer.

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

Well, first off, let's examine the impacts of fatherlessnes children. https://fathers.com/statistics-and-research/the-consequences-of-fatherlessness/

So now, let's examine societies overall response to this and I believe it is captured in this article https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/4263122/dad-bias-praise-parenting/amp/

As we gear up for Father’s Day and many of us get ready to celebrate the man who taught us how to ride a bike and kept indiscretions from Mom that he knew would get us in trouble (it was OK to sneak a cookie before dinner as long as we shared it with him), the question of society’s views on fatherhood pops up.

Those of us who are old enough to have families of our own now were likely raised by a father who did “Dad stuff” (see the aforementioned bike-riding lessons and the occasional homework help), but for the most part, everyday tasks like dinner, school runs and laundry were left up to mothers.

Today, as a new generation of dads takes on many of those responsibilities and more, they are often enthusiastically praised for doing things that merely fall under the umbrella of parenthood, and for which mothers are rarely acknowledged.

In an essay for Parents magazine, Ross McCammon wrote of an experience he had when his son was still an infant. He was walking home one Sunday morning with his baby strapped to his chest and a bag of groceries in each hand: “The boy and the food total about 35 pounds, evenly distributed, and I’m not struggling in the least,” he wrote.

He then passed a man in his 20s who took one look at him and said, “You’re a great father, man.”

McCammon was confused by this stranger’s unquestioning praise of his parenting prowess, because as far as he was concerned, it was a decidedly ordinary act.

“We need to move beyond the idea that a dad’s presence alone makes him great at the job. It’s condescending and undervalues the importance of a father’s regular engagement,” he wrote.

Fathers have been increasingly vocal about not wanting to be referred to as “babysitters” when they’re out with their own children or seen as heroes.


“I get undue adulation all of the time for simply being out with my kid,” Adam Mansbach, author of the bestselling book Go the F**k to Sleep, said to The Atlantic. “Just because my kid isn’t freezing to death, I’m a great father.”

It’s considered ‘novel’ when fathers parent
What this comes down to is society’s inability to accept or at least recognize changing gender roles.

“In general, our traditional values are shifting. Men are becoming much more involved in raising the children and helping with household tasks,” says Joanna Seidel, a Toronto-based family therapist. “But women have traditionally been in the roles of taking care of the children and the home, so it’s considered novel when men do it.”

Aside from this being a welcome response to the realities of modern life — more women have full-time jobs and therefore cannot dedicate themselves entirely to raising the children and running a household the way they may have half a century ago — we’re also learning more and more that fathers’ hands-on involvement makes for better kids.

Studies have shown that fathers who are involved in their sons’ lives early on reduce their risk of homelessness later in life. Hands-on dads also raise kids with better cognitive abilities and fewer psychological problems.

But mothers (and clearly, some fathers too) take issue with just how much praise is being heaped on hands-on dads. Especially considering that in Canada, women still do 50 per cent more unpaid work (namely, housework) than men despite working full-time. In the U.K., women do 60 per cent more, while 79 per cent of American working moms say laundry responsibilities fall exclusively to them — plus 50 per cent of the cooking.


Seidel hears many of these same issues from her patients, although she says some of that is due to women being unable to let go of their stronghold on the homestead.

“Even if they work, some women set up the structure that they take on the majority of childcare and housework,” she says. “They will defer to the fathers for support or assistance, but they are the leaders.”

Sorry my copy and paste on my phone isn't working, push and drag annoying af, jyst of it is there... Basically we've entered a time of equal rights where our rights as men are not equal and that is saw as OK because women are tired of hearing about how important dads are... Dads are almost being put above the mom, but it is what is necessary... The truth is that Dads have evolved to the point where we don't need women outside of a birth canal and they know it... We are better teachers, better providers, better protectors and there is not this lingering sense of empowerment that women have, women tend to just focus on themselves, you can see it in the article, it isn't about the children, it is about the praise... Who cares who gets praise if your kid turns out great, well no, it seems a woman is willing to forfeit her child's future for praise.

 

[TheProspect]

Time moves fast dude. Do you want to be an old fart or a "younger" dad that can actually do fun **** with his kids?
Don't wait too long...

Ideally, if it happened, I'd prefer to have a kid in my early to mid 30s.

I'd be more concerned about the age of the mother, obviously preferring a mother in her 20s for a multitude of reasons. My dad had me at 32, and he didn't have much problems doing things with me and my brothers growing up.... Unlike him, I don't smoke, and I exercise and stretch daily, so I'd imagine I'd be much better shape than he was too.

With that said; Marriage is bad option these days as family laws always favor women. You will lose. But hey do you really need a paper to say "I love you?" Right?

Yeah, I just cannot rationalize myself into getting married. There is some evidence that suggests children growing up in married homes are generally better off. That being said, I wouldn't want to get married solely for that reason. Admittedly, deep down I do hold some blue pill idealism of wanting the white picket fence life. Again, because of the red pill and rationality I couldn't even begin to blindly pursue such a thing without due diligence and proper vetting.

 

[Roober]

A man without children is not a complete man. Possibly fulfilled, but not complete.

 

[AureliusMaximus]

Ideally, if it happened, I'd prefer to have a kid in my early to mid 30s.

From my own perspective as i can only speak for myself; I am happy and grateful that my parents where in their 20'tes when they got me and my brother because that means that they are and have been an active part of my life (and still is) in very positive ways and doing fun shi´t like sports and adventure stuff, travels etc..

I dunno; but I imagine that peeps that have old parents don't get to experience that in the same way because their parents can´t keep up with it and the pace it requires. (The generation gap also might be too wide maybe?)

So I'm very appreciative for that life experience.

Now of course I'm not saying that you should find the first best hot chick in her 20´tes, (or freak out of it yourself over your current age etc.) and bang her thick for that reason above. I'm merely just trying to give you and insight to the other side of the coin of old vs young parents.

 

[SW15]

I have to chuckle a little when I hear having a kid but laws are against men.

Paint this likely picture:

You have 2 kids. They’re between 2-8 years old. You have a solid relationship with them. You take them fishing or Disney world or whatever the f.

Statistically, as you said, she begins the divorce process, with or without your input. Doesn’t matter. In fact, she has zero reason to be encouraged to maintain good behavior during the proceedings.

You are awarded 4 days per month to see them now.

What are doing those other 26 days?

Oh by the way, the mortgage payment you used to make, you now pay your ex that amount. And then you try to live off the rest. Where’s that money go? Her new boyfriend.

He’s also Dad now.

Your kids don’t even know you let alone want to come over to see you in grandmas basement.

Might want to rethink wanting to have a kid in this climate...

I could identify with this story. I have a cousin who went through it. He had two kids, ages 9 and 3 in 2019 when his wife began divorce proceedings against him. His financial payments are irrelevant here since she is a nurse and he's a construction worker. She was making more than he was. Although not confirmed, it is strongly suspected that he was having an affair with a doctor at the her hospital. As of Summer 2020, the kids had not been introduced to any new boyfriend, though I think she likely arranged the monkey branch before initiating divorce proceedings. It is amazing that a doctor would go for a nurse pushing 40 with 2 kids but male thirst can't be underestimated. If he is a wise guy, he just ejaculated and evacuated after 6-12 months.

I feel bad for my cousin and his kids, but that marriage was doomed from the start. It was artificially propped up for years by my uncle and aunt because they got married due to an unplanned pregnancy. My uncle and aunt spent a part of their retirement years providing free childcare for the first child. My mom would never have done that for me, which is a part of why I have stayed childless.

I think many of the men here on Sosuave have much better odds of a successful marriage and family than most men, because of all the knowledge they've attained, their ability to screen and next, and just generally knowing what they want. Plus a lot of guys on here are overall very intelligent.

I think many of the men on SoSuave have assessed that the mating marketplace is a dumpster fire and it is not advisable to marry. If you have kids, it is more probable than not that you and the mother will no longer be a couple before the first child turns 18.

I'm 37 now. I've not been close to a marriage in any of my relationships. I'm open to the possibility of having kids but not planning to have kids. I've been careful in the sex I've had over the years. I wear condoms and most of the women I've been with have been using birth control as well. I'm not that excited about the idea of having my first kid at 40-45 and not being done with child raising tasks until my early 60s.

I don't want to get divorced with kids. I would rather have a stay at home mom as a wife than a careerist woman. That's not realistic now in my dating pool. Since divorce and/or separation is more probable than not, that's not a healthy situation for the potential children. I don't see myself going down that path.

 

[Lookatu]

Ideally, if it happened, I'd prefer to have a kid in my early to mid 30s.

My $.02,
When it comes to having kids, I think it's more important to have them with the right person no matter what age you are. Obviously there's more complications and genetic risks the older the women are, that has to be taken into consideration.

I had my youngest when I was 42yo. I see other parents at school meetings and such and a lot of them look quite old when they are the same age or younger than me.

The biggest thing you can do is to continue taking care of yourself and being in the best shape so that you can participate in your kid's activities with them no matter how hold you get.

Once you start putting a timeframe around having kids is when you'll let desperation kick in which will cloud your judgement for one which you may regret later.

It's the same mistake that females make. They think they can control when they find the right guy and when to have kids. They often try to schedule their career first then decide after they get to a certain point that they will start looking for Mr. Right to have a kid with and they will live happily ever after. Don't make the same mistakes. Actively pursue finding the right girl now no matter what you got going on in your life because it could happen tomorrow or in 10 years or more.

Also, I see more and more young people having a hard time conceiving or bringing the baby to full term these days. So not only keeping yourself in shape is important but finding a partner that is also in shape both physically and mentally. Just mental stress alone oftentimes can reduce the chances of bringing a baby to full term. I've seen this in a couple friends I know. 2 of my friends tried for 8 years to have a baby successfully.

But I'm glad you are thinking about this at least from an earlier age. Good for you.

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

A man without children is not a complete man. Possibly fulfilled, but not complete.

Our replacement rates are not being met, this world is going to be much more desolate for our children and theirs than we believe.

 

[Roober]

My $.02,
When it comes to having kids, I think it's more important to have them with the right person no matter what age you are. Obviously there's more complications and genetic risks the older the women are, that has to be taken into consideration.

I had my youngest when I was 42yo. I see other parents at school meetings and such and a lot of them look quite old when they are the same age or younger than me.

The biggest thing you can do is to continue taking care of yourself and being in the best shape so that you can participate in your kid's activities with them no matter how hold you get.

Once you start putting a timeframe around having kids is when you'll let desperation kick in which will cloud your judgement for one which you may regret later.

It's the same mistake that females make. They think they can control when they find the right guy and when to have kids. They often try to schedule their career first then decide after they get to a certain point that they will start looking for Mr. Right to have a kid with and they will live happily ever after. Don't make the same mistakes. Actively pursue finding the right girl now no matter what you got going on in your life because it could happen tomorrow or in 10 years or more.

Also, I see more and more young people having a hard time conceiving or bringing the baby to full term these days. So not only keeping yourself in shape is important but finding a partner that is also in shape both physically and mentally. Just mental stress alone oftentimes can reduce the chances of bringing a baby to full term. I've seen this in a couple friends I know. 2 of my friends tried for 8 years to have a baby successfully.

But I'm glad you are thinking about this at least from an earlier age. Good for you.

Agreed on the bold. The woman you choose to have kids with is likely the single biggest decision you make in your life.

 

[Desdinova]

my biggest concern in life is having a kid with the wrong woman. How do I handle this desire given my concern?

This is what I would do...

Get yourself a vasectomy. Yes, you heard that 5hit right. However, before you do that, put a bunch of your sperm into a sperm bank. When you DO get involved with a woman, you can spend a few years with her and decide whether you want to have a kid with her or not. When/if you finally come to the conclusion that you're going to procreate with this woman, get HER to pay for any of the procedures involved with having a child. If she's willing to put that kind of an effort in to have a baby with you, then there's a good chance she'll stay. If she realizes that she can just go out and fvck someone without forking out the money to have a baby, then she's not worth a damn.

 

[christie]

'could identify with this story. I have a cousin who went through it. He had two kids, ages 9 and 3 in 2019 when his wife began divorce proceedings against him. His financial payments are irrelevant here since she is a nurse and he's a construction worker. She was making more than he was. Although not confirmed, it is strongly suspected that he was having an affair with a doctor at the her hospital." by SW15

I can identify with this story too. I am the coworker to these construction guys when the woman acts up and decides to destroy the family unit just to cheat with the doctor for a year.

The immense grief and distraction these guys face but they still have to come to work......careless and reckless about the dangers in the workplace(imagine the scene in one of the Final Destination movies where potentially every tool and power equipment can take your life)
They stop eating properly or at all and potentially start addictions like alcohol.
You can literally watch their lifeforce fade from their faces day by day as they experience this extreme trauma in their personal lives.
As a coworker in the same crew working 12 hour days, you know they aren't calling or texting or whatever some side chic so you know it was the woman's fault she initiated the divorce.

I cannot emphasize enough how horrifying it is to witness a man have the life taken away from him in this manner.
If anyone's witnessed a family member slowly die by cancer it has the same effects.

Call your cousin or any man you know that's going through this. They may say they're alright but they're not alright and would benefit from a few regular phone calls in a row.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

There's some very interesting information and misinformation in this thread. For one a man's sperm also deteriorates with age, it's not just women's eggs that deteriorate.

@TheProspect
I also feel I would enjoy fatherhood, and I'm in a similar headspace as you and @Serenity. I told myself a year or two ago that if I go on at least two first dates per month I would have adequate exposure to the female population to chance upon a good catch. That's only 24 per year, but in 20 years that number is closer to 500. Again this is an absolute minimum, but it's important to keep in mind in case isolated work becomes incredibly engaging and one loses track of time.

The topic of fatherhood is extremely open ended so I'm only going to express a few ideas here.

A big question that I don't see adequately addressed in this thread is why would one of us want kids? Ecologically we can make the argument that having children is extremely selfish and terrible for the environment. Overpopulation is a real problem and there are plenty of children in need of adoption.

We have to ask ourselves if we seek children as a scapegoat for something more challenging in our lives. A child can be the ultimate distraction, the ultimate excuse for not doing something more ambitious. And who is to say whether raising a family is or isn't the most ambitious/valuable thing a man can do? It's incredibly subjective. We can rationalize our own delusions quite easily.

If we imagine an incredibly engaged man, a man that is living his life expressing his passion, I would argue that he doesn't actively seek fatherhood. Any business ventures can be passed to a protege, and any advancements he makes will improve society at large. For a man that's truly in love with what he does, this is enough, he feels truly alive. We can all attest to this being true when we feel this state in our own work. This is the primary reason I'm personally very skeptical of any inner desire for a family.

In this light, desiring a family is compensation for an unfulfillment that you can otherwise not understand. But if a man is instead seduced into the idea or torn from his craft by a very determined woman, then it will feel as though it fell in his lap, similar to what @Serenity described.

When I sense this desire for a family bubbling up I take is as a sign to socialize more or question my motives for my current craft. If I have a socially isolated craft but enjoy being around people should I socialize more in my free time or simply change to a more social craft? Or is the desire to socialize a subconscious means of distracting myself from what would otherwise be my best work?

I like to think approaching the feeling this way has served me well. A more social craft naturally sets up the conditions for a family to occur effortlessly because obviously interacting with more women increases the chances of anything deeper developing.

The last thing I'd like to mention is there is such a high degree of uncertainty in life, especially all the intricacies of a family and fatherhood, that it's best to live in the moment and not dwell on 'what if's. Or rather, learn to have these thoughts without identifying with them, and timebox them.

Life is very much like poker; you can be dealt amazing cards and lose, you can be dealt terrible cards and win. The chances can be slim, but they're never zero. The risk prone will suffer more losses yet higher risks can also mean higher rewards. Safe bets will win more often and the results will be more common/average, etc.

Not to mention you ultimately decide what is a win or a loss. The only way we can say any one methodology for a family in this thread is right or wrong is by assigning very personal and subjective values to their components. Whatever you decide is a win, have the conviction to push that feeling out into the world, embody it.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

A lot of men genuinely want to have and raise children. They are probably a small minority on Sosuave but they certainly exist. I agree that having kids to solve some existential crisis is not a great starting point, but having them because you truly want them is exactly the reason to do so. You can be ambitious professionally or in life in general and also want kids, they aren't mutually exclusive. This is one of those things where only the individual knows for sure what's in his heart.

We can get into the weeds of "it's hard to find a suitable mother" and divorce rape and all of that, but I think if a guy wants kids, and he's wise, he'll take the steps necessary to start a strong family. Of course as we've seen, some of the most "alpha"/successful men fail on this front...CEOs, generals, celebrities. That's why places like this or so valuable.

Of course a man will take the steps to start a family if he wants one. Like I said, how we quantify whether he's a success or failure is extremely subjective. But aside from passing on genes(which is extremely overrated), I can't think of a sound logical reason to have children. The race is not threatened and should be culled if anything.

To me, 'genuinely want kids' is not a satisfactory answer to the question of why. And if he isn't ok with adopting rather than having his own I would be even more skeptical as to his motives.

There are inherent primal urges we have to manage in modern life, and time and again it's obvious that the inner thinker doing the managing creates a much better quality of life for you and everyone around you than the reactive primal brute ever could.

If there's no logical reason for something, and it's completely rooted in emotion, then it simply must be managed to avoid mindless self destruction and the destruction of others. That's why so many here are listing off seemingly paranoid but completely rational ways to manage a marriage/family. And that's why I'm saying it's healthy to be extremely skeptical of that desire in the first place.

If every man was completely rational when considering children then he simply wouldn't have them with what we know about resource allocation, pollution, orphans, etc. There would be some kind of systematic plan to only have children under the right societal conditions, not just because 'i feel like it'.

It's the ultimate primal urge your ego capitalizes on to quench feelings of insecurity, and if the desire is irrational then it's extremely selfish. Your brain will do backflips to convince you that it's the right thing to do, simply because your outdated biology compels it.

 

[Lookatu]

But aside from passing on genes(which is extremely overrated), I can't think of a sound logical reason to have children.

To me, 'genuinely want kids' is not a satisfactory answer to the question of why.

If every man was completely rational when considering children then he simply wouldn't have them with what we know about resource allocation, pollution, orphans, etc.

Here's my story and thoughts after having them. I never wanted kids or even thought of having kids and had the same thought processes as you originally. I came from a good family structure and home with plenty of blue pill and societal programming. I did what I was "supposed" to do all my life. (Do good in school, go to college, get good job, find a wife, have kids).

The kids part I did because I wanted to make my wife happy, part of societal programming, and also didn't want to be selfish and give my parents grandkid(s). I felt it an honorable thing to do at the time as my parents sacrificed so much for me growing up.

Well after having the first one, there is a feeling you get that changes you forever and a feeling that you will NEVER experience in your whole life. It's something I can't describe but to bring in a new life form into your life that you help create, just brought out tons of emotions that I never even knew I had or can have at a certain level. I never felt anything like it before.

But outside of that, kids help you grow further into your next part of life and brings you as close to the fountain of youth as possible. Think of it as an evolution of your life that is not possible to achieve without them for internal growth. They help you become a better person and human being more than you could ever do yourself. It were these factors that I had two more of them after the first one. I would probably have 8 if I could to be honest.

However, I always get these guilty feelings from time to time as I can be selfish and not invest ALL the effort I can into my kids. This is something that I think a lot of guys struggle with. This is the flipside of it, however this is what keeps you striving to be better and it bleeds over into other areas of life. Having kids also gives you a main purpose in life that helps you live a more fulfilling life assuming you are investing everything you can into them.

I realize kids aren't for everyone but I'm just providing some insight from someone that actually has them for those that are on the fence or not sure.

I think for guys coming from wrecked homes, bad situations growing up, or single parent household, the thought of kids would be harder to swallow based on their reality though.

 

[Modern Man Advice]

... but my biggest concern in life is having a kid with the wrong woman. How do I handle this desire given my concern?

I'm 26 years old, and ever since my nephew was born ten years ago and spent the first 2 years of life in the same house as me, I've wanted to raise a kid of my own one day.


I'm not in a rush to have a kid, I'm only 26, but if I ended up dating a woman for long enough who had ideal motherly qualities and the compatibility to be a long-term partner, I wouldn't be against having one in a few years. I have 1 year of university left so I'd like to finish that and have a few years making money before I settle down with someone.

I know there's a few guys on this forum who've got married, or had a kid with a woman, and it didn't work out (perhaps it was an amicable split or the guy simply knocked up an idiot with a vag!na), but they still are proud to be a father nonetheless. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 and there will always be uncertainty, but I'd like to have the mom in the picture to raise the kid alongside me.

I'm not really interested in marriage or finding a unicorn, but I feel two married individuals who are on the same page on parenting would provide the best environment for a kid to grow up in, and for that reason, I would consider marriage.

I've been with a decent amount of women already by age 26, and the novelty and conquest of new women is starting to wear off. Sex alone doesn't interest me anymore. Most women I've met are the furthest thing from intellectually stimulating, with the ones worth the companionship are few and far between...

I guess there's a worry within me that I won't come across a woman worth having a kid with, however, living in that mind-set seems unproductive and like it would become a self-fulfilling prophecy. But my fear to have a kid with the WRONG woman is so much stronger than my desire to have a kid to begin with, I'd probably just opt out if I don't find an ideal woman.


At the end of the day, having a kid isn't my purpose or sole ambition in life, so if it doesn't happen because I don't find a suitable mate, then so be it. I wouldn't settle for having a kid with sh!tty woman and let that be my life for 18 years.


TL;DR ... I want to be a father and raise my own kid one day. Wondering the smartest way to approach this desire given the current marketplace and female proclivities these days. In no rush, and I'm not willing to sacrifice on the quality of a woman just for the sake of having a kid, so I can accept it if it doesn't happen... although I really look forward to potential fatherhood. Thoughts?

That is a genuine concern a lot of men have. Typically, a concern more common in men 35+. So yes, you are still young and plenty of time ahead of you.

You say you lived with your nephew for the first 2 years of his life. So I sense you believe that you think you have a good grasp on what having a kid means. But it'd be wise to reconsider that as it is a huge responsibility It involves so many factors that you may have been blinded to and did not get to see after those 2 years that should be considered.

Children are a blessing and of course, bring so much joy but its not all peachy. We don't know what you do for work and what your career/profession looks like but having the right woman to have a child with might be the least of your concerns. Make sure you get to live your life fully and accomplish all you want to accomplish first. Grow, experience, travel, etc, etc. We believe that no male before the age of 33-35 should settle down until they have their s**t together. And we mean together, not just a steady job.

As per the ideal woman, that's a myth. No one is perfect and you will encounter many flaws in whatever woman you choose. Just like you have yours. Take your time exploring your options, and let it happen naturally.

And if that really is a huge concern which you cannot get passed thru, and depending on your views on the world and the future of humanity, but there are many, many, many, maaaaaaannny children that would love getting adopted. And maybe being a single dad might be your thing. Who knows.

Ultimately, it is absolutely up to you and you alone. You decide. It is YOUR life.

Cheers,
Modern Man Advice

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

All due respect, if it's what he wants, he doesn't need to justify it to anyone. I for one don't care what another man's reasons are, that's up to him.

We make choices to pursue happiness. I know that's not very "logical" sounding. Ideally the choices are made logically but based on the happiness we aspire to. The fact is, a man can factor whatever he wants into the decision (overpopulation, fear of cuckoldry, whatever), but ultimately the decision is still his and what's best for himself.

I think you're worried about someone else's motivations, but it's not your problem, you know? Just like you wouldn't want him judging your decisions.

Again, I'm more of the "to each his own" school of thought. Generally I believe a person is a success who is pursuing his goals in life, engaged in whatever processes that entails. Whether that's career, hobbies, or family, it's about what he wants, not what I think he should be. That's my $.02 anyway.

We're sharing opinions here, there's no one right answer, so in that we agree.

I'm not asking him to justify it to anyone but himself, because that'll give him the confidence to be a better father.

If me telling someone to thoroughly question their motivations and sharing my opinion offends you then good. Discourse is a catalyst for growth.

What your fellow man does, his motivations, and his decisions, absolutely affect the society you both make up. It's in your best interest to understand him and advise for rational decision making.

He is well aware that he can have kids and do whatever he wants. The entire point of this thread is to explore the implications of it all and get a wide range of perspectives.

Not everyone is seeking happiness at all costs. Like you said, ideally decisions are logical and sound, so we should strive for it. I believe a big reason for this thread is to get feedback and get closer to that ideal.


Not sure why I sense friction from you, we're saying a lot of the same things.

 

[TheProspect]

@EyeOnThePrize @samspade

I've found both of your contributions to this topic interesting & insightful, as well as your discussion between each other.

In my case, I'd agree that my motivation to have kids is not completely rational. But most of our decisions in life aren't always perfectly rational, we're humans not robots and we decide to do things with a lot less logic than we'd like to admit.

I'm not concerned with any moral implications about not approaching fatherhood in a rational & utilitarian way. If I decided to ultimately have a kid, it'll be me raising my own kid. I have zero interest in adoption. Frankly I don't care if wanting to father and raise my own seed is selfish.

I enjoyed the fact that my nephew was related to me by blood. I enjoyed the aspects of teaching him and seeing him learn and grow through the years, but I don't cling and hold onto the experience. I don't see myself feeling unfulfilled if it doesn't happen with a kid of my own. My nephew is nearly 14 now, and these days, for reasons beyond my immediate influence, I haven't had much contact with him the last 6+ years – and I'm content with that. I enjoyed the experience while it lasted, and moved on when it ended. I don't necessarily feel a desire to actively recreate the experience, I have other priorities right now in my life that take centerstage.


To clarify (if it wasn't clear already), my interest in becoming a father is a want, not a need. It's not my purpose or endgame. I personally don't see it, in my case, filling a void neither. If I'm 90, and had the choice of reliving my life and having the experience of fathering and raising a child versus not having that experience, I'd pick having the experience.

Men who desire kids could uncover some questionable motives to have them by thoroughly examining their intentions and reasons why, and I concede it could serve their futures well to bring that to their attention. I don't deny that...

I get the importance of determining the motivation to have a kid, or figuring out the why, I really do... And I'm also aware that most reasons for fatherhood could just be biology backwards rationalizing an underlying function to propagate genes... but in my opinion, such level of analysis is of little use in my case because I have little interest in why I want to be a father. I guess, however, in my case I'm interested more in how to go about in a mindful way given the female marketplace.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my desire to become a father doesn't mean I will do so at all costs. It should be without saying that proper vetting and careful consideration would be done before such a decision.

I guess if I had to quickly TL;DR my post and explain the superficial why of me wanting to be a father I would say:

I am interested in biologically fathering my own child with an ideal enough women, because I think I would enjoy the experience of raising a kid, and that I would find fatherhood an intrinsically rewarding chapter of my life.

With the purpose of the thread being: How do I approach that voluntary desire given the female marketplace?

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Respect your opinion but I can tell the difference between a RPilled guy and a guy who is just RPill aware just by what comes out his mouth. I dont see Rian as vanilla at all. He may be selling a product and thats fine but the message is the just of it for me. How all of us apply RP is going to very because there is no one set way for all guys.

He is ex army I think. Not a bad guy. Less annoying then Rollo lulz. What dies Ryan sell? I don't get the live in gf but not married thing. Pretty much the same thing.

Do you have kids?

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

@EyeOnThePrize @samspade

I've found both of your contributions to this topic interesting & insightful, as well as your discussion between each other.

In my case, I'd agree that my motivation to have kids is not completely rational. But most of our decisions in life aren't always perfectly rational, we're humans not robots and we decide to do things with a lot less logic than we'd like to admit.

I'm not concerned with any moral implications about not approaching fatherhood in a rational & utilitarian way. If I decided to ultimately have a kid, it'll be me raising my own kid. I have zero interest in adoption. Frankly I don't care if wanting to father and raise my own seed is selfish.

I enjoyed the fact that my nephew was related to me by blood. I enjoyed the aspects of teaching him and seeing him learn and grow through the years, but I don't cling and hold onto the experience. I don't see myself feeling unfulfilled if it doesn't happen with a kid of my own. My nephew is nearly 14 now, and these days, for reasons beyond my immediate influence, I haven't had much contact with him the last 6+ years – and I'm content with that. I enjoyed the experience while it lasted, and moved on when it ended. I don't necessarily feel a desire to actively recreate the experience, I have other priorities right now in my life that take centerstage.


To clarify (if it wasn't clear already), my interest in becoming a father is a want, not a need. It's not my purpose or endgame. I personally don't see it, in my case, filling a void neither. If I'm 90, and had the choice of reliving my life and having the experience of fathering and raising a child versus not having that experience, I'd pick having the experience.

Men who desire kids could uncover some questionable motives to have them by thoroughly examining their intentions and reasons why, and I concede it could serve their futures well to bring that to their attention. I don't deny that...

I get the importance of determining the motivation to have a kid, or figuring out the why, I really do... And I'm also aware that most reasons for fatherhood could just be biology backwards rationalizing an underlying function to propagate genes... but in my opinion, such level of analysis is of little use in my case because I have little interest in why I want to be a father. I guess, however, in my case I'm interested more in how to go about in a mindful way given the female marketplace.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my desire to become a father doesn't mean I will do so at all costs. It should be without saying that proper vetting and careful consideration would be done before such a decision.

I guess if I had to quickly TL;DR my post and explain the superficial why of me wanting to be a father I would say:

I am interested in biologically fathering my own child with an ideal enough women, because I think I would enjoy the experience of raising a kid, and that I would find fatherhood an intrinsically rewarding chapter of my life.

With the purpose of the thread being: How do I approach that voluntary desire given the female marketplace?

Tom Brady won more super bowls then franchises have. It's that rarity GOAT caliber star you must find in a female. Not a qb. A diamond in the rough.

The LEVEL OF game required today is stupid. The body count is retarded and western women are not wife nor mother material. I have approached 1000s of girls in my life. I have done more pickup in a single night in Ibiza then most men have in their life. The point isn't to toot my horn. On the contrary, you take Ls in pickup. I'm not trying to find a wife. I am trying to break her headboard. My point is that, I am putting in more work than fellas who actually want a wife and kids. Game is a lot of work. You need to work volume. Absurd amount of volume. wtf is the alternative?

I started this journey with the end in mind. I began seeking what you want when I was ignorant of female nature. After going full retard learning game, it's just not real life. the women can't cook or clean. Her body count is astronomical. The state is banking on divorce rape. the likelihood of cuckoldry and getting wrecked.


I would suggest that you work volume. Stack paper and cast a HUGE NET globally. The smp is a dumpster fire. Turning a ***** into a house wife is retarded. Lowering the bar is the height of stupidity. If anything RAISE THE BAR.

Approach lots. Stack paper. Be willing to pull globally and acknowledge that it may go nuclear. You may do everything right and she goes psycho. Be willing to hit the dooms day device. Btc everything across the globe and disappear or willingNess to literally incinerate everything should the time come. Cobra tate Style. Rot in jail before funding cuckoldry but I digress. @stringpuller is probably a better candidate for the topic.

I am still slinging D in pandemic and approaching.

2

Good for you man. I wasn't aware. You probably have the best amountof knowledge on the subject.