Marriage and being faithful...

[scarface701]

Does she have any female friends with a good sexlife?

I’m sure she does... I don’t necessarily know her friends sex lives... but I do know she is the prude of the bunch.... and she’s so stubborn and strong willed that she’d rather get divorced than give in....

The other problem I’m worried about is that even if she decides to give in and change she’ll be doing it begrudgingly and how much fun is it to fool around with someone that is only doing it bc they have to...?

 

[Billtx49]

Incompatibility:
not compatible; unable to exist together in harmony

 

[metalwater]

agree; simple truth. in this case was not like that.

well; I was wrong on this one. the rest of the story tells more.

 

[BeExcellent]

Ok so she assumes the moral high ground and takes a blaming, self righteous position. She says you are unhappy and she lays 100% of the blame at your feet for being a horn dog.

See how that absolves her of guilt and responsibility? See the larger power struggle?

See how she gets defensive when you point out her refusal to do for you? Pissy? You need to remain unflustered. Ask her point blank why she gets defensive about sex. Remind her it is perfectly normal for a healthy man to enjoy sex and having his needs met. Explain you prefer that she participate in it...or she can remain sexually closed off while you do something different.

What is important to her? There exists your leverage.

Get the book I recommended like yesterday. It addresses exactly this type of dynamic. Seriously.

 

[metalwater]

you could try making a different life change that would result in you and her moving to a new location, more than a days drive from where you are now. certainly lots of issues with doing that for sure, depends on priority. meaning, restore her need of you and break any visual that she might have of any grass is greener.

I know a couple of guys that have done this for similar but different reasons. it works out ok, but never perfect.

 

[BeExcellent]

I’d ask her point blank, What are you afraid of regarding sex?

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Alot of people do it. Observe their character and see if it's how you want to be. They end up being big liars who don't care about folks.

Actually. There is a flip side... A large percentage end up being big liars who are more loyal to most other people except their spouse. So in effect they allow everyone to help take advantage of the unaware spouse.

 

[scarface701]

The book is a meaty read. It is about marriages that reach a crisis, as all marriages do. It is about how and why those relationships reach a crisis point and about the normalcy of it and how our sexuality is affected by things we might think are unrelated.

I cannot say whether The Way of the Superior Man deals with the entanglements that occur in marriage...but the OP seems to be in such a crucible in his. Passionate Marriage deals head on with exactly these matters. I keep a copy on my bedside table and I found it useful as my own marriage was unraveling. I believe the OP might greatly benefit from the insights in the book based on what he has shared. It certainly won’t hurt and might help.

Now. If his spouse refuses to make the journey with him to resolve this very real issue? That is the decision point where he must decide to stay status quo, cheat with its inherent risks, or divorce. None of those three choices are as optimal as resolving the issue within the marriage...

If you don’t mind me asking... it seems you had the book by your bedside yet it sounds like your marriage still unraveled...? Did the book help or were there just too many issues to overcome?

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Ok so she assumes the moral high ground and takes a blaming, self righteous position. She says you are unhappy and she lays 100% of the blame at your feet for being a horn dog.

See how that absolves her of guilt and responsibility? See the larger power struggle?

See how she gets defensive when you point out her refusal to do for you? Pissy? You need to remain unflustered. Ask her point blank why she gets defensive about sex. Remind her it is perfectly normal for a healthy man to enjoy sex and having his needs met. Explain you prefer that she participate in it...or she can remain sexually closed off while you do something different.

What is important to her? There exists your leverage.

Get the book I recommended like yesterday. It addresses exactly this type of dynamic. Seriously.

Is there success of "popping" someone out of this mindstate? How about shifting it over time? Those stonewalled position usually remain a problem.

 

[scarface701]

Is there success of "popping" someone out of this mindstate? How about shifting it over time? Those stonewalled position usually remain a problem.

When I move out... which I’ve done 2x now... it seems to “pop” her out of this state... but it’s like as soon as she feels secure she resorts back to this stubborn ass that can’t be reasoned with. TBH I never understood how marriage could change a relationship... but once we got married she did a 180. All the fun went out the window. It only returns if I move out.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

When I move out... which I’ve done 2x now... it seems to “pop” her out of this state... but it’s like as soon as she feels secure she resorts back to this stubborn ass that can’t be reasoned with. TBH I never understood how marriage could change a relationship... but once we got married she did a 180. All the fun went out the window. It only returns if I move out.

It's a control issue. You never tried not needing sex from her and temporarily getting it from outside.

More "black magic" methods need to be discussed.

 

[Billtx49]

When I move out... which I’ve done 2x now... it seems to “pop” her out of this state... but it’s like as soon as she feels secure she resorts back to this stubborn ass that can’t be reasoned with. TBH I never understood how marriage could change a relationship... but once we got married she did a 180. All the fun went out the window. It only returns if I move out.

Yes, it’s the classic fvck his brains out until he’s locked down act. I call it bait & switch.
If your complete absence snaps her back to reality, I suggest you personally gradually start spending less time at home in the evenings…
Activities that you enjoy that are at least semi social with females in attendance like a bowling league or something else, but time spent away from her…
Give her some uncertainty …

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Of course it turned in to this huge deal how I am not sensitive enough

Lol how ironic

I don’t try hard enough

Lmao even more ironic

nd on how it was all my fault

Does this woman not see herself?

Women. I swear, they can’t really believe their own bull**** when they take it this far... at this point though, anything’s possible lmfao

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

she’d rather get divorced than give in....

Mockery aside, any women who is like this is not worthy of a relationship. Women are supposed to submit to men, it’s just the natural order of things. Don’t get me wrong, dudes aren’t supposed to hurt their women if they submit, plus you gotta have your **** together in life too. But any women who is stubborn just for the sake of it is not a woman deserving of love and companionship. How can she? She rejects it. All men who bow down and break for a women like that aren’t men at all and women typically find such men repulsive anyway, so it’s pointless for a man to back down. My grandmother from dad’s side was like this and still is to this day. She’s super depressed because she lost the love of her life who was literally one of the greatest men ever, and it was due to her own stubbornness. She ended up giving pain to my dad and all of his siblings (my aunts and uncles) because of it. They love her because she’s their mom, but she brought more pain to them than anyone else, especially to my dad, because she wasn’t soft and sweet and was just stubborn for no fkn reason. She got divorced, but remarried to the same angel of a man again and had some more kids, but my dad asked why she even did it if she knew it wouldn’t work out bc he wished he hadn’t been born (due to the **** that happened after they got divorced the second time; my dad literally had to survive a holocaust worse than Auschwitz, amongst other things) and she refuses to say sorry even to this day.

Now, your wife isn’t anything close to my grandmother lol but I’m telling you bro, women like this are simply defective and were meant to die out and die alone. They’re too standoffish under the guise of being ‘mature’, and they only care about “their work” because they think that life is all about work, even though it isn’t lol. Those people are absolutely perfect as slaves because they wouldn’t complain about how much work you give them nor would they complain about their status being beneath you because they think “this is just how life is, deal with it”. Unfortunately, slavery is banned so we can’t use them, but anyway that’s besides the point lol

The other problem I’m worried about is that even if she decides to give in and change she’ll be doing it begrudgingly and how much fun is it to fool around with someone that is only doing it bc they have to...?

Yup, then it’s time to cheat and leave. Make sure you don’t let her know that you’re thinking of divorcing her, act completely normal with her—joke, laugh, smile, have sex, etc. and then when you are busy hiding your assets and everything, just slip it into conversation “Hahaha, yeah that was funny. Oh by the way! That reminds me, I’m divorcing you. I need you to sign these papers, I’ve got a pen for you here” and then just act completely normal. Doing it like this and acting like it’s completely normal, and that she is just absolutely weird for not wanting to sign it and for thinking that there is something wrong with you wanting to get a divorce will really bother her, and it’s honestly what you have to do in order to get these types to understand, because quite frankly it’s what they do to us. So yeah. **** her lol

I’d start hiding your assets and cutting your hours at work so that you have more time for other bitches and so that you make less money than her. Renegotiate your contract to make it happen so that once you get divorced, you can take alimony/child support from her instead of the other way around. Women are ruthless when it comes to divorce and relationships and will do things out of spite even if it destroys themselves in the process.

It's a control issue. You never tried not needing sex from her and temporarily getting it from outside.

It’s not a control issue, she just takes him for granted. (We know this because she doesn’t nag at him or anything like that and is content with how things are; she just doesn’t give more when he asks)

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Yes, it’s the classic fvck his brains out until he’s locked down act. I call it bait & switch.
If your complete absence snaps her back to reality, I suggest you personally gradually start spending less time at home in the evenings…
Activities that you enjoy that are at least semi social with females in attendance like a bowling league or something else, but time spent away from her…
Give her some uncertainty …

OP, if this doesn’t work, just start cheating on her and cut off sex with her entirely. If nothing changes still, then spend some nights without coming home. And if she STILL doesn’t care or even mention anything, then prepare for a divorce and hide your assets for a few months because she might be preparing for a divorce herself and is just not telling you. If after the few months, nothing has changed with her, then you can relax and go wild because it means she’s okay with you cheating. You just stay in the marriage for the kids or whatever.

 

[scarface701]

That's entirely up to you, and who YOU are.

If your relationship with your wife is fine, except for her disinterest in sexual experimentation, then ask yourself why sexual experimentation is important to YOU. Is it because you're just bored, and think something different would renew YOUR interest? Is it because you feel that her enthusiasm is lacking? Is it because you've started a porn habit? Or, is it because she's let herself go, while you've kept yourself up?

Is she has let herself go, aside from just stardard mileage(which none of us, male or female can help), then that can be a turnoff, as well as indicative of lack of interest on her part.

If it's just because you spend every waking hour together, and she's always up your ass, a decline in sexual attraction is understandable, and you might try arranging to spend a little less time together....in a non-offensive, NOT ”would you get the fuuck away from me, harpy!?" manner. See how that goes.

If you're watching porn, stop doing that, and work on turning her into YOUR pornstar, instead...not A pornstar(there's a big difference...figure it out).

If you think having an open relationship or bringing a third person into your bed is going to help, you're wrong. Put that **** out of your head. Immediately.

If you're convinced getting a secret(keyword) mistress is your key to personal happiness, how are your kids gonna take it, when THEY find out(when your wife finds out, your kids will find out)?

If you're still determined to go down the infidelity road(not a Marine, I assume?), how have YOU held up? Do you still get those looks from women? Do you still get women who shamelessly flirt with you, even while your wife is present, even though you wear a wedding band? If not, if you've let yourself go, even a little, why not START by rebuilding yourself into the best you you've EVER been? Say nothing to your wife about your new diet, exercise, grooming, and clothes; just do it, and let her wonder why. If she asks, just tell her you just want to be healthier, and to look better for her(give her a little wink on that last part, and then leave the room or change the subject...let her mind do they do).

By the time, or even before, you finish rebuilding the perfect beast, your wife may even surprise you, with renewed interest, enthusiasm, and a sense of adventure; if that's all you were really looking for, be happy.

If you start walking by mirrors and shop window, and say "whose that stud with wife," and things are still stale, and you're getting the attention you used to get(or never got) from random women....then you can start planning your adventure, Dudley.

PS - you might wanna be a little more careful who you share your thoughts with. What your buddies tell their wives, during pillow-talk, will almost certainly make its way back to your wife. Some guys have no self-control.

I think you’re confused on what the problem is.
It’s not sexual experimentation that’s lacking. It’s “I never need to look good or try at all ever to do anything or even act slightly sexy bc I’m not that kind of person attitude “. This is what pisses me off.

I’ll work my ass for her. At work... on our house... you name it... and she’ll refuse to even dress sexy or go on a date.

She is sexy. She hasn’t let herself go. Nor have I. Neither of us would have a hard time getting others should we be single.

 

[BeExcellent]

If you don’t mind me asking... it seems you had the book by your bedside yet it sounds like your marriage still unraveled...? Did the book help or were there just too many issues to overcome?

The issues in my marriage revolved around erosion of my respect for my husband over time. We were best friends and ardent lovers. We were compatible. But when we got married he was a business man who owned a high end very popular nightclub in a vibrant night life city. We both loved the nightlife & dancing and the scene etc.

His partner screwed him over in the club business. Fortunately my father was a high powered attorney and so he helped my husband through the legal end of things so he was able to preserve value in the deal.

But my husband never recovered from that and frankly never really tried. His identity was entirely wrapped up in the club and he had no idea how to reinvent himself. Meanwhile my business was taking off. Instead of dropping out of the workforce to be a mother (of course I was pregnant when all this happened) I became the breadwinner. I was also resentful because I had really wanted to be a mom, but bills had to get paid. So I would take off to give birth and then go back on the road ASAP to support my family. My ex husband is a loving father but a terrible home maker, he wouldn’t clean or bother to open the mail. So the power would get cut off or some other unnecessary crisis would have to be solved remotely by me. My ex got depressed and lazy. And nothing I did or said changed a bloody thing. But I had to be the boss of the relationship and I didn’t like that at all.

He was taken care of because I wasn’t going to watch my life or my family go in the toilet, and he took full advantage for 10 years. I got married for better or worse but I didn’t get married to have a full grown adult to look after.

This eventually killed all attraction for him.

So over time I realized there’s nothing I could do to make him change, and my only choice was to leave the marriage. So I did.

Best decision ever.

What I learned from the book was the kind of power dynamic that was at play and that I could only ever be responsible for my part of the marriage. I banged my head against the wall for years trying to encourage, advise, cajole, nag, complain, cheerlead, pay for counseling, encourage some more, task master, etc. He wouldn’t budge & never budged. So I had to chose whether or not I wanted to stick with a partner who showed no interest in a partnership or in improving himself and growing. The book helped me take ownership of my stuff and release responsibility for his stuff.

But the book goes into great detail on how these power dynamics affect sexuality in the marriage. And how to explore issues through sexual union and intimacy. How to open up sexually and has many case studies from the author’s clinical practice.

Just get the book. It will help give you perspective. This is about more than just sex. Sex is simply the theatre where the conflict is getting aired. I refer to the book some even now as a single person and Ive given it to friends when it has appeared appropriate.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

The issues in my marriage revolved around erosion of my respect for my husband over time. We were best friends and ardent lovers. We were compatible. But when we got married he was a business man who owned a high end very popular nightclub in a vibrant night life city. We both loved the nightlife & dancing and the scene etc.

His partner screwed him over in the club business. Fortunately my father was a high powered attorney and so he helped my husband through the legal end of things so he was able to preserve value in the deal.

But my husband never recovered from that and frankly never really tried. His identity was entirely wrapped up in the club and he had no idea how to reinvent himself. Meanwhile my business was taking off. Instead of dropping out of the workforce to be a mother (of course I was pregnant when all this happened) I became the breadwinner. I was also resentful because I had really wanted to be a mom, but bills had to get paid. So I would take off to give birth and then go back on the road ASAP to support my family. My ex husband is a loving father but a terrible home maker, he wouldn’t clean or bother to open the mail. So the power would get cut off or some other unnecessary crisis would have to be solved remotely by me. My ex got depressed and lazy. And nothing I did or said changed a bloody thing. But I had to be the boss of the relationship and I didn’t like that at all.

He was taken care of because I wasn’t going to watch my life or my family go in the toilet, and he took full advantage for 10 years. I got married for better or worse but I didn’t get married to have a full grown adult to look after.

This eventually killed all attraction for him.

So over time I realized there’s nothing I could do to make him change, and my only choice was to leave the marriage. So I did.

Best decision ever.

What I learned from the book was the kind of power dynamic that was at play and that I could only ever be responsible for my part of the marriage. I banged my head against the wall for years trying to encourage, advise, cajole, nag, complain, cheerlead, pay for counseling, encourage some more, task master, etc. He wouldn’t budge & never budged. So I had to chose whether or not I wanted to stick with a partner who showed no interest in a partnership or in improving himself and growing. The book helped me take ownership of my stuff and release responsibility for his stuff.

But the book goes into great detail on how these power dynamics affect sexuality in the marriage. And how to explore issues through sexual union and intimacy. How to open up sexually and has many case studies from the author’s clinical practice.

Just get the book. It will help give you perspective. This is about more than just sex. Sex is simply the theatre where the conflict is getting aired. I refer to the book some even now as a single person and Ive given it to friends when it has appeared appropriate.

So that club loss killed him. You gave him 10 yrs to figure his next move.

 

[BeExcellent]

So that club loss killed him. You gave him 10 yrs to figure his next move.

We were married 15 years. The fiasco with his business partner occurred in the second year. That year I also gave birth to my son. He was a full time father for 10 years and I was loyal and patient. The last several years of the marriage I told him straight up that I would eventually divorce him in time over his lack of drive or ambition. Despite our children & friendship & great sex life. Late in the marriage I helped him start his own business, and I put thousands of dollars into it as well as time & effort. I deferred to him in that endeavor, as it was his. But I knew the day it opened it would fail. He never bothered to establish the habits and discipline required to run a business and he ran in just as he had run our household, very poorly. It was a cool venue, and could have made it but he mismanaged it terribly. I never recovered what I put into it financially and that’s Ok.

We got divorced 6 years ago. My son works at his old venue, which has become successful for someone else.

My ex husband now works a regular job in a structured environment and makes very little. He is satisfied just getting by and has let himself go physically since we split. Never goes to the dentist, won’t get a hernia repaired, stuff like that.

Meanwhile Ive kept myself up and my trajectory has been very different.

 

[Lookatu]

Sounds like a power struggle, transactional, her wanting the max for the min, etc. Time to eject...
I think you've put up with it long enough. It's clear you're not happy and she doesn't give 2 $hits on how you feel.