PUA is (was) a Politically Correct Scam

[Serenity]

I don't see game as being an intellectual pursuit, not natural game anyway. It can be as simple as just having the kind of personality that draws people to you - for whatever reason.

Game is a skill. Like many other skills it requires knowledge and intelligence (to appropriately apply the knowledge). Maybe using the word "intellect" was a poor choice, I know what literally everyone else associates it with and it's not what I'm thinking about.

I don't talk about intelligence used in a perfectly analytical and systematic way, logically breaking down every little challenge, it takes too much time. That's the definition of overthinking it, by the time anyone comes up with a solution, no matter how smart they are, it's way too late. No, I'm talking about heuristics, which is a different way of solving problems very rapidly. Intelligence is the ability to problem solve, if you want to pick up a woman and take her home then you're problem solving, no matter how aware you are about that fact. The naturals are largely unaware and heavily rely on heuristics derived from their extensive social experience. A more intelligent natural will be more successful than a lesser intelligent one if all other factors are equal. Someone who lacks knowledge needs to learn about socializing and then practice it before heuristics can drive it all. Intelligence is needed for game, many just don't utilize it correctly or lack the necessary knowledge.

I didn't have either the game or the personality to attract some years ago, my LMS hasn't changed much but my SMV has. So has my game and personality, I've massively developed it because I had to to catch up with the "naturals". They're not any more natural than I am now, the only advantage they have is that the environment they grew up in taught them the social skills they needed in order to succeed. They learned it early enough to be blissfully unaware of how they have the skills they have. I have the same skills and probably even more because I learned it consciously, but I apply it just as automatically. I kinda just know what to say in the moment, if I don't then I try the first thing my mind comes up with even if it's just to expand my experience. The next time I'll just know what to say.

 

[zekko]

only advantage they have is that the environment they grew up in taught them the social skills they needed in order to succeed. They learned it early enough to be blissfully unaware of how they have the skills they have.

That's what I consider a natural. It's not that they don't have skills, it's that they've come by them almost effortlessly as a result of how they grew up, or where, plus their natural genetic gifts. This can include having a personality that is naturally very social, which again is probably a result of how they grew up.

I don't dismiss the idea that guys can use their intelligence to develop their skills. I'm just pointing out that it can also work against you.

What people think about "game" is interesting to me. I've seen remarks that range from "It's all BS" to "Every pickup and red pill tip I've ever heard works - field tested!". And everything in between. "Game" to me simply means how you relate to women, whether you're good at it or not, you have a way you interact. There's player game, beta game, lousy game, whatever.

 

[corrector]

But you do need money because you need $5000 for the bootcamp lol.

They had a range of products for different bugets if you did not have that type of money. You also had a zillion products with no risk money back guarantees in 30,60,90 days and they honoured that stuff.

 

[nicksaiz65]

Does no one here watch Alpha Male Strategies? He says that looks are extremely important and that your game is worthless unless you pass their looks test. That is 100% right.

 

[biggoal]

They had a range of products for different bugets if you did not have that type of money. You also had a zillion products with no risk money back guarantees in 30,60,90 days and they honoured that stuff.

5k for that? Seriously you could spend that kind of cash on much better self improvement stuff OR just keep doing cold approaches and eventually will get a date. Online dating cost a fraction of that and even with the sh*** results most people get from it you'd still get dates and far cheaper. Granted lower quality women but still.

 

[nicksaiz65]

5k for that? Seriously you could spend that kind of cash on much better self improvement stuff OR just keep doing cold approaches and eventually will get a date. Online dating cost a fraction of that and even with the sh*** results most people get from it you'd still get dates and far cheaper. Granted lower quality women but still.

Exactly BigGoal

 

[biggoal]

Can be. Paralysis by analysis. And overthinking things, you can always find reasons why this particular girl won't go for you. Whereas a guy who is outside his own head more will just plow ahead.

I don't see game as being an intellectual pursuit, not natural game anyway. It can be as simple as just having the kind of personality that draws people to you - for whatever reason.


I've always gotten the impression a lot of guys here do want to die alone. Some seem to think that spending any sort of time with a female (outside of bedding her) is like being dropped into a vat of acid.


The guy they picked as the winner in the first season of Mystery's old show The Pickup Artist, they picked him largely because they thought he had the kind of looks that could be successful with it.

Social status is obviously important, otherwise why would they tell you to DHV? I guess you don't have to actually have social status, they just tell you to fake it. Really, it's easier to fake social status if you actually have it (otherwise you come off as incongruent). But some girls are very gullible.

Fake it. Is that why on here guys tell me to make my business sound more appealing and bigger? I notice women take note of my business on OLD and on dates interested in it. Sounding like I'm wealthy makes your value higher.

I need to learn to keep my mouth shut more and not go into much detail. Like I sell phone cases and accessories. Tell them I'm into wholesaling instead like one of the users on there said.

 

[Vice]

Other guys get pissed off if you acknowledge that good looking guys get the best looking girls.

Those of us who have been in the field for a while know that this isn't necessarily true, and believing it is the mark of a newbie. When was the last time you went out?

Overall, too many words in this post, OP is gay

 

[Serenity]

I don't dismiss the idea that guys can use their intelligence to develop their skills. I'm just pointing out that it can also work against you.

Yeah, I don't dismiss that it can work against you, which is why I felt the need to elaborate what I mean.

What people think about "game" is interesting to me. I've seen remarks that range from "It's all BS" to "Every pickup and red pill tip I've ever heard works - field tested!". And everything in between. "Game" to me simply means how you relate to women, whether you're good at it or not, you have a way you interact. There's player game, beta game, lousy game, whatever.

Yeah, I agree. I have a very clear concept of what it is, but I find difficulty reaching a common understanding about it. I'm probably somewhere in between, not sensational, not insignificant. It's about how to interact with women.

 

[corrector]

5k for that? Seriously you could spend that kind of cash on much better self improvement stuff OR just keep doing cold approaches and eventually will get a date. Online dating cost a fraction of that and even with the sh*** results most people get from it you'd still get dates and far cheaper. Granted lower quality women but still.

Like I said, different prices. Most of it is free if they dont work and you go for the money back guarantee. The sociopolitical climate has changed. By the way you advocating cold approaches or OLD is still red pill / game thought. They would teach cold approach like a religion. The idea is you could be a total loser but if you approach enough women then one of them might take you on. Their job is to make that more efficient. You are paying so instead of approaching 100 women or being ghosted, you get results with 10, etc... otherwise the numbers game is too exaggerated.

 

[illstep]

Generally, the world seemed to wakup in regards to this stuff over the last few years or so.

When I first joined rooshV - people got banned by him for suggesting that looks mattered. (reason: 'game denialism')
A few years later, Roosh himself made a post that included the quote ''Game is just something to help you get laid with girls who like the way you look''. Quite the turn around, no? Then people WEREN'T getting banned for suggesting game isn't magic
Then people spoke less less about 'game' and more about, what was essentially 'sex tourism' lol. (white guys travelling to Asia to get laid since it's too hard back home)

Even this forum has changed a lot in it's belief about 'game'. It used to be very 'mysyerymethod', 'you can bang any hot teen you want even if you are 80 and fat and broke as long as you know game and memorise your DHV stories and palm reading routines', kind of thing.

There are still some die hard PUA nutters around who believe in that old definition of game, but that's just the way it is; (I mainly see them on 'seddit')

I was reading a post recently from some self proclaimed PUA expert who advocates talking to girls like some sort of poet in order to get their emotions going.

e.g when she asks what you do, you should say something like 'painting' and then say this :

''"When I sit down to make a portrait, I am usually alone, and when i happen to be alone,I tend to feel slightly inside my own head, it is like an emprisonment of your own mind, that only the strongest souls can liberate themselves from. It is one of those situation Ida, where time just flies by... now, used to be then and then suddenly becomes now, an hour becomes a minute, a minute a second and each and every second turns into small pieces known as milliseconds...Completely focused on the things to come, and it's like that sensation of every bone in your body is working towards creating something big, something new, something that would just blow your mind away. Now with me, It's a struggle, but I love it"

Apparently that style of 'emotional' talking makes girls want you, even if she thinks you're ugly! Imagine a young 18 year old party girl in a bar asking me what I do for fun and then I say that weird stuff! I think it'd bore her to death or just make her think I was extremely odd or born in the wrong decade or something lol (ps, this poster is also an ACTUAL male model (some of you may know who I mean), yet probably attributes his success to them pretentious routines lol)

Yeah I’ll agree with that.

If she is already attracted to your look, then you need some game to close the deal. Absolutely.

Depends on just how attracted to you she is. I actually also subscribe to the idea that you tend to need some game to get laid even if you are handsome, but if you are stupid handsome, you honestly can get away with being a complete autist or be super boring etc and still get laid with a super hot young girl from a bar or tinder or whatever. Maybe not a relationship, but definitely get laid like a rockstar


Game is a very simple thing. About 95% of 'game' is actually just flirting when you break down all the techniques (negs, pushpull, sexualising convo, statements of intent, disqualification etc etc etc)

Now, flirting is great. It helps you get laid with girls who think you are hot. BUT, flirt with a girl who isn't attracted to you (you're just not her physical type or whatever) and what happens? Rejection. Game is nothing magical or special at all. You can't force attraction. And the fact people have been lied too for so long and people are still making OBSCENE amounts of money from selling dreams (i'm talking about 10k per client on a short bootcamp, and they get lots of clients!!) makes my blood boil

 

[7onriverI f]

Really paying someone 3k or whatever to tell you GO OUT! is super expensisve advice.

If you just go out while at the same time work on improving your looks and improving your finances that's all you need to focus on in the beginning. Once your out you should notice which girls are looking at you in a good way and be able to approach them or they will just approach you. Not super hard. And paying 5k a bootcamp for three days is super expensive which you can get professional advice and work done from a hairdresser, personal trainer, nutritionist, dance teacher, stylist for probably even half that.

 

[Mike32ct]

One thing I always found strange was the PUA notion that you have to be super funny and charming and make her feel all these emotions in order for her to leave with you.

Anyone who’s been in the field might have observed that some ONS pickups are actually quite dry and business-like. The woman seems almost depressed or pissed off. The guy is also equally serious. Nobody smiles; they have a boring conversation about nothing over drinks; and they end up leaving together.

What happened to muh personality lol?

In reality, the physical attraction from looks carries those pickups.

 

[illstep]

@Mike32ct

That was the first clue for me that I noticed almost straight away when I first discovered game quite some time ago

I read lots of stuff from Julien and watched his infields. I had an idea in my head from him in terms of how to behave and what to do. A model of sorts. Mixed results.

I then stumbled upon a different PUA and saw that everything about his game couldn't have been more different. His vibe, his verbals. His theories. Everything.

This rang alarm bells with me straight away. I thought 'if there are seemingly no rules, is there even a game? What's a game without rules? Are we being scammed here?'

I dug deeper and deeper and read material from everyone to find yet more experts disagreeing with each other over evcery single possible nuance of game!! (whilst also field testing and approaching, of course). This is a huge tell-tale sign that there really isn't a 'method' to this stuff at all. People aren't robots.

It became apparent that it was largely BS. Guys would just run extreme numbers game (when they weren't hiring actresses) and eventually find a girl who liked the way they look (after deleting all the rejections), and then they'd pull that girl. All of their 'game' was simply their personality. (she either liked that too, or at least didn't object too it). And then they'd over-complicate everything retrospectively as if each line he used had some sort of clever manipulative purpose that sealed the deal for him

 

[mrgoodstuff]

In a crowd of good looking guys, then what?

Status and cliques. Or your more her type.

 

[7onriverI f]

@Mike32ct

That was the first clue for me that I noticed almost straight away when I first discovered game quite some time ago

I read lots of stuff from Julien and watched his infields. I had an idea in my head from him in terms of how to behave and what to do. A model of sorts. Mixed results.

I then stumbled upon a different PUA and saw that everything about his game couldn't have been more different. His vibe, his verbals. His theories. Everything.

This rang alarm bells with me straight away. I thought 'if there are seemingly no rules, is there even a game? What's a game without rules? Are we being scammed here?'

I dug deeper and deeper and read material from everyone to find yet more experts disagreeing with each other over evcery single possible nuance of game!! (whilst also field testing and approaching, of course). This is a huge tell-tale sign that there really isn't a 'method' to this stuff at all. People aren't robots.

It became apparent that it was largely BS. Guys would just run extreme numbers game (when they weren't hiring actresses) and eventually find a girl who liked the way they look (after deleting all the rejections), and then they'd pull that girl. All of their 'game' was simply their personality. (she either liked that too, or at least didn't object too it). And then they'd over-complicate everything retrospectively as if each line he used had some sort of clever manipulative purpose that sealed the deal for him

game is just about going out and finding girls who want you. every guy in the bar has girls that like him if he goes out regularly enough.

 

[Mike32ct]

In a crowd of good looking guys, then what?

You are certainly welcome to try to compete with better looking guys by using your personality.

Not impossible, but an uphill battle.

But anyway, I find the concept of “dry/serious” pickup interesting. Just an observation.

 

[cheyne]

I guess you need to ask yourself if you honestly think that 'attraction material' works as advertised and can compete with genuine attraction such as her thinking you're very handsome and make her wet just thinking about you.
PUA's say 'if she doesn't think you're good looking, you have to build attraction using attraction material. We have cold reads, DHV stories, negs and humour in our game toolbox'. But it's no more powerful than if Rosie O'Donnel was using them same techniques on you to make you want to have sex with her lol

 

[andreihaha]

game is just about going out and finding girls who want you. every guy in the bar has girls that like him if he goes out regularly enough.

Kinda. I'd say more like finding girls that you like and they seem interested in you also.
If she holds eye contact with me, I instantly assume attraction and make a move.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

You are certainly welcome to try to compete with better looking guys by using your personality.

Not impossible, but an uphill battle.

But anyway, I find the concept of “dry/serious” pickup interesting. Just an observation.

It depends on what she values. Doesn't it? All looks and poor personality vs pretty good looks and a great personality. It depends