asking for advice about uninterested wife

[metalwater]

My thing is this. Men have tried the following when they are being cheated or neglected and it makes things worse:
1. Praying
2. Working harder and doing more to prove his love
3. Keep trying
4. Ignore her
5. Try to negotiate

My other alternative as a last result kills your neediness. Plus it reframes you as a sexually desired man outside her.
Men have noticed when they left their wife or gf who wasnt putting out or playing games that she finds herself strangely attracted once hes with another. Its almost like a chain of events in the universe triggered her interest and desire.

I tried all those. the only thing that has made any impact is red pill theory, I guess it is the same as this forum as the docs seem to be interchangeable.. the problem I have with red pill theory is for me it can be just an extension of #2 and #3. your suggestions are the only things that are not an extension of those.

I have seen first hand how that when the emotion triggers flip in the girl that they become a different person. I can't perceive if there is a master personality in charge or if she really becomes a different person with each emotion change. It seems like there must be a master personality (emotion) in charge, and if so it is all girl version of game. If there is no master personality in charge then I can see how game masters can manipulate any girl they want, including mine.

On another topic, can you recommend any online mens groups that are decent to join ?

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I know, that is the walk away choice. It can lead to a much better life. I am also inventory what I have written in this thread vs any difference in reality because your advice is based on what I have written and also from having read the same story from others in the past.

Is there a post her on this site that tells your story?

I never was game aware or had any idea about the information in the red pill books or DJ bible. It is a gigantic thing to digest.

I am also using another forum that is much more blue. every day I see at least a couple of new posters that are men who have been beat to hell by the wife. every time the guy is completely clueless, just like I was. Interesting is that I also see girls posting the same who are or are about to go find another guy. They describe how they are just turned off by the husband and don't know why as he is doing everything nice. They describe in detail exactly what has occurred from the girls side, it is very consistent.

Now I am watching to see if I can notice who the players are that are men around me (the ones fck ing the married girls), and I can't... but they must exist. There are a few guys that seem to be very socially active that I just sort of don't like... I guess those are the ones. How can I identify them ?

The other thing I considered is codependant/Narcissist. With me as the code and the girl as the Narc. That all fits... but isn't that just another way of describing the situation where the guy has been betatised and the girl is dominant? If it is something different, then I have to look at that possibility. although the solution likely is the same..

I will sum up my 30 yrs of observations. Back when i cheated or was open to cheating my women loved my dirty draws. I could fvck when i wanted. Even caught bachelorette party vids and wife didnt do nothing wrong. Then i got straightlaced 100% committed. I started to get cheated. Theres a yin yang balance in play here. Plus the easiest way to drop need and desire for one lady is attaching to another. Im not really a proponent of "cheating". But real world shows being cvcked makes a man undesireable to all women. And when a man starts fvcking another his most recent strangely gains interest.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I tried all those. the only thing that has made any impact is red pill theory, I guess it is the same as this forum as the docs seem to be interchangeable.. the problem I have with red pill theory is for me it can be just an extension of #2 and #3. your suggestions are the only things that are not an extension of those.

I have seen first hand how that when the emotion triggers flip in the girl that they become a different person. I can't perceive if there is a master personality in charge or if she really becomes a different person with each emotion change. It seems like there must be a master personality (emotion) in charge, and if so it is all girl version of game. If there is no master personality in charge then I can see how game masters can manipulate any girl they want, including mine.

On another topic, can you recommend any online mens groups that are decent to join ?

I too witnessed alternative personas on my ex. I was inserted into s group She was part of. I witnessed A completely bubbly but attention thirsty persona i was never aware of..

 

[AttackFormation]

I am also using another forum that is much more blue. every day I see at least a couple of new posters that are men who have been beat to hell by the wife. every time the guy is completely clueless, just like I was. Interesting is that I also see girls posting the same who are or are about to go find another guy. They describe how they are just turned off by the husband and don't know why as he is doing everything nice. They describe in detail exactly what has occurred from the girls side, it is very consistent.

What things are consistent?

 

[metalwater]

What things are consistent?

The girls have been with the guy for something like 3 + years up to 20...

The girls complain that sex is either gone or boring. Or that the guy isn't interested in sex(low libido).

Most tell that they guy does anything and everything she asks for or at least most of it.

The girls complain that they don't have feelings of interest any longer, although most still claim to care about the guy in a lets just be friends way. Others become disgusted. Most feel like they have a very safe and dependable guy, some even explain the dilemma of giving up the beta (in different words) for an alpha or at least a player...

Basically everything in the books, no more mr. nice guy, and the married mans sex life primer. I believe most of these girls have never seen or heard of those information just like there men have not. But the girls describe clearly the problem exactly like those books do. When I tell them what the problem is, they almost always say, yup... Many claim to feel terribly bad about the situation but consciously decide to move forward with cheating or separation. More cheating than separation. This is the older crowd. Sometimes I skip telling the girls as I have a natural affinity to feel the pain of whoever is the guy.

Of interest, I have not yet ever seen a girl ask about anything that suggested that she just had an oops moment with some guy. But it happens all the time, so they are quite about it.

The younger ones have the same problems, but some of the younger girls stay stuck a little better... It looks to me that the golden age of this problem is about 30years old till 40s... for the girls. For the guy it doesn't seem to matter.

As a side.. I can perceive when a guy is properly managing the girl as they then complain about the guy not being available enough or not sharing enough or not committing enough. But in all of those cases they are VERY interested in the guy and chasing. In the past I would believe that the guy was not doing the correct thing. Now I know for sure that he is.

Red Pill theory should be taught in high school, as required. Our whole society would be far stronger. This stuff is rock solid and the truth. I for one, would never have been in the crap position if I knew before how it works. Some girls know... some don't.. (I think...) but it all still works the same regardless of if they know.

 

[Spaz]

@metalwater next time when ur wife acts out, bend her over ur knees and spank her good, make sure she cries.

Only then ask her if she wants you "be loving" once again.

When she does say it, start caressing her, soothingly, and then gradually to all her lady parts, once she's wet and good, fvck her hard.

The downside to this is, they keep on wanting it like it's some fvcking drug, so be warned beforehand that you might need to dish out "punishments" every now and then.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

Metalwater, first l say kudos on your progress so far. You took initiative and have acted to improve your situation and your wife is responding favorably. This is good. Keep it up.

Ignore for now those here that say leave. You have much to lose and you are finding that things may in fact be salvageable.

Now. I will comment on several things because I do not see a balanced perspective in the thread on where your wife may be. Here are some thoughts.

1. About the sex thing. She is giving you sex anytime anywhere now. Keep that up. Ask her to dress sexy for you. Tell her what dress or shoes or lingerie you prefer. Women need to feel sexually desired and prefer that the desire emanates from our mate. Yes a little attention from outside can be flattering but I want to feel desire from my man, who cares about everyone else. You are doing this...so good. Keep it up.

2. She refuses to kiss you much. If she likes kissing you you’d never hear this. Ever. So this means you need to improve in the kissing department. I’ve made posts on this before. Search with my name & Kiss and you should find the thread. I’m not saying it to insult your ego but she would welcome your kisses if she liked what you are doing. She will never tell you she doesn’t like the way you kiss. She’s afraid to hurt your feelings.

Two things you can do. 1. Be certain your mouth is fresh and your breath is good. Oral health is very important. See a dentist for a cleaning. Brush, floss, use mouthwash & gum.

2. Ask her to show you how she likes to be kissed and learn to do what she likes. You can make this erotic and very sensual. And be sure you’ve got fresh breath a la step 1. above.

Here is another thought. You can state very directly your preferences about her behavior. You can say things like:

1. I find it disrespectful when you appear to flirt with other men in social settings. I am mentioning it so you are aware of my stance so you have an opportunity to modify the behavior.

You may get push back on that. My boyfriend is extremely direct about that very thing. I am charismatic and engaging socially and people are naturally drawn to me as a result. But I also must be aware of how my behavior is perceived by others. My guy said basically just what I wrote above along the way and while I didn’t like it at the time, I listened and have paid more attention to my social behavior in deference to him.

Now. Full disclosure. I keep a little anxiety as well, because anxiety is the root of desire and my guy needs to see that I remain desired in a larger context, but that is a subtle art and overt flirting is not necessary at all. But I am dating a hardened player type, so what he needs in the game is different than what is best in your situation.

Your wife should not complain about the household duties. This is laziness. If she complains again ask her point blank:

How would you like if I complained about supporting you and the children?

You both have your roles on the team in your family. Accept your roles cheerfully. That way you move the team forward in a positive way.

You must call her out on bad behavior in time. You may not be ready or strong enough to do that yet, but you’re going to need to arrive at that point.

The things you say that you think as noted above eventually need to be statements you make to her in a direct way.

Communication is of extraordinary importance in a marriage. Not supplicating communication but direct communication. You must set down concretely your expectations and your issues. And you need to consider hers as well.

Read “Passionate Marriage” by David Schnartch (Last name not quite correct) and you’ll see value in what the author says.

This is in addition to what you are already doing, which is giving results. The inner work and transformation will occur more slowly. That is what the book I noted will help you with.

My final thought is this. You are married to a social leader type woman based on what you wrote. She in particular needs and craves leadership from her man. She is probably principled and has loyalty but has been disappointed in the stagnation of the marriage. Women may not cheat in such a situation out of solid character but they still crave masculinity and leadership. Your recent changes have given her hope in my estimation. Keep improving and doing what you are doing.

Keep posting the updates. You are the master of your life. Wear that mantle without apology and your wife will happily acquiescence as you become the man she wants and needs.

Best to you. Cheers -BE

 

[Glassguy]

Looks like an interesting forum.

I have a wife of 15 years that has become uninterested in me. She still performs duties but clearly has lost most of the interest. And of course that is not a nice situation.

So many details, and I know it is not fun to read a long rambling post.

I would like to get her back (completely). We have kids also..

Her focus has moved to outside the house, and I have personally viewed body language between her and another married guy. She is living with us, but interest is outside.

If I can use the forum for advice.. first question is how can I determine if the situation is already to far gone to fix ? The next questions will be about how to do it. I have already been reading for weeks.. months.. ideas from internet and everything is so not consistent.. I had one forum ban me as a spammer maybe because i asked a vague question.

thanks

I am late for the party but let me give you some solid advice:

1.) Your "wife" is not your "wife" anymore. Her intent has shifted from pleasing you to openly showing interest in another man. At some point in time she lost all respect for you and now that comes across as (highly) disrespectful behavior.
The fact that you say "you want her back completely" after this level of disrespect tells me that you have no backbone and she has ran over you for years and that is how she lost all respect for you.

2.) The discussion should not be how to get her back, rather how to move forward quickly and get YOUR life back. Let her worry about her life. That is no longer your responsibility.

3.) She will continue doing this to a larger degree for as long as YOU allow it. Including fvcking other men and coming home to you, because you are paying the bills and she will "tolerate" you so long as you are financing her lifestyle while she is opening fvcking other people.

4.) Once a woman loses all respect for you (thus the disrespectful behavior), you will NEVER get her to fully respect you again.

5.) You need to throw her out of the house or go find a suitable place to stay and file for divorce immediately.

6.) You will never have a rational conversation with her about this because she doesnt respect you and doesnt care how you feel about it. She is going to keep doing what she is doing and its up to you to make the move to end your marriage. If not, I hope you like the cuck lifestyle.

Under no circumstances should you allow her disrespectful behavior to continue under the roof you are living in. Divorce her and move on.

Hope that helps.

 

[AttackFormation]

I am late for the party but let me give you some solid advice:

1.) Your "wife" is not your "wife" anymore. Her intent has shifted from pleasing you to openly showing interest in another man. At some point in time she lost all respect for you and now that comes across as (highly) disrespectful behavior.
The fact that you say "you want her back completely" after this level of disrespect tells me that you have no backbone and she has ran over you for years and that is how she lost all respect for you.

2.) The discussion should not be how to get her back, rather how to move forward quickly and get YOUR life back. Let her worry about her life. That is no longer your responsibility.

3.) She will continue doing this to a larger degree for as long as YOU allow it. Including fvcking other men and coming home to you, because you are paying the bills and she will "tolerate" you so long as you are financing her lifestyle while she is opening fvcking other people.

4.) Once a woman loses all respect for you (thus the disrespectful behavior), you will NEVER get her to fully respect you again.

5.) You need to throw her out of the house or go find a suitable place to stay and file for divorce immediately.

6.) You will never have a rational conversation with her about this because she doesnt respect you and doesnt care how you feel about it. She is going to keep doing what she is doing and its up to you to make the move to end your marriage. If not, I hope you like the cuck lifestyle.

Under no circumstances should you allow her disrespectful behavior to continue under the roof you are living in. Divorce her and move on.

Hope that helps.

I wish we would get a report back sooner or later on how this marriage ended up. I'm not taking any sides in this, just want to see which advice ends up being true - something else or this. Can he really get back her desire and respect (if she ever really had any for him in particular) or does he have to leave? Is what BeExcellent said true and she won¨t kiss him because she thinks he sucks at it, or is she avoiding it for another reason (why¨d she marry him if he sucks so badly at kissing and it¨s such a big dealbreaker as BE says?). I'm on pins and needles.

 

[metalwater]

I wish we would get a report back sooner or later on how this marriage ended up. I'm not taking any sides in this, just want to see which advice ends up being true - something else or this. Can he really get his life back and get back her desire and respect (if she ever really had any for him in particular) or does he have to leave? Is what BeExcellent said true and she won¨t kiss him because she thinks he sucks at it, or is she avoiding it for another reason (why¨d she marry him if he sucks so badly at kissing and it¨s such a big dealbreaker as BE says?). I'm on pins and needles.

No one wants to know how it turns out more than I.. the advice I have so far is.

- do nothing or a variety of other stupid stuff that many guys try, outlined by a few others in this thread. (didn't help..)
- red pill marriage (helps me in lots of ways, and has improved some of the symptoms)
- go fck someone else
- Walk
- live indefinitely as a happy cuck..

As you can see if I follow that order, I will never get to the last choice..

Now I have the BE comments that are interesting and I am trying to figure out where to insert another choice into my list that is based on it. Even she (who is suggesting it is possible to win this one) tells the same as everyone else. trouble is with me, letting the girl walk on me. I get it, the disagreements are what to do about it and then from those choices what am I capable of.

From what I can figure out, red pill map plan eventually includes advice steps #3 and #4. nobody includes the last idea, including me. I am working on the Carnegie book again as it is something I need regardless of what direction I take and just doesn't come natural for me.

 

[metalwater]

Advice from the old lady:

Thanks for the ideas. The book is/was hard for me to understand. Most of the other books that I have read recently such as the Way of the Superior Man by David Deida that seemed to cover related topics are easy for me to understand. "Passionate Marriage" on first read is hard for me to follow, although towards the end I can tune in better. I get the physical ideas, but the emotional ones are hard for me. The idea of self validating intimacy seems like a key point. What are the key points you are thinking of for me, I would try again and tune into those better, because it is difficult for me it is likely useful.

 

[BeExcellent]

Thanks for the ideas. The book is/was hard for me to understand. Most of the other books that I have read recently such as the Way of the Superior Man by David Deida that seemed to cover related topics are easy for me to understand. "Passionate Marriage" on first read is hard for me to follow, although towards the end I can tune in better. I get the physical ideas, but the emotional ones are hard for me. The idea of self validating intimacy seems like a key point. What are the key points you are thinking of for me, I would try again and tune into those better, because it is difficult for me it is likely useful.

We pair up with partners at a similar level of personal growth and we tend if we are not careful to enmesh and entangle ourselves with the other person rather than seeing the relationship as the mirror it gives us into ourselves.

For example if you feel bad or feel guilty about asserting yourself and your needs as a man then you are more concerned with approval from outside yourself rather than having achieved autonomy or self validation/differentiation (this is what the author is talking about throughout the book).

You do not exist to please others. Not your wife, not your father or mother or boss or pastor or whoever else you may have placed ahead of yourself.

 

[metalwater]

We pair up with partners at a similar level of personal growth and we tend if we are not careful to enmesh and entangle ourselves with the other person rather than seeing the relationship as the mirror it gives us into ourselves.

For example if you feel bad or feel guilty about asserting yourself and your needs as a man then you are more concerned with approval from outside yourself rather than having achieved autonomy or self validation/differentiation (this is what the author is talking about throughout the book).

You do not exist to please others. Not your wife, not your father or mother or boss or pastor or whoever else you may have placed ahead of yourself.

great, I did get it right then. that is exactly one of the changes I have done that is working. starting in bedroom time, working to extend that outward. If I can do that probably this situation is already at peace. the girl however has a need for external validation and approval, that should be focused to me and not other men (from my viewpoint), and of course there are plenty of guys willing to accommodate that. it would be a much more fun experiment if it wasn't so personal for me. The book did make me think about it more in the exact way you tell.

the path I am on will cause me at some point to not want the girl any more, if she doesn't become interested again. the progress is slower for me then most in this forum I think and might give her time to adjust in ways that will feel safe to her. I was very very far down the wrong path. I can endure longer to ensure I don't walk away from a good choice.

she is moving towards compliance with my wishes, but to be honest it is probably a shock to her as to what is happening. It has to go this way but if I am to care for her I shall try to be kind.

i am starting to see external ios to me, she is seeing it also i imagine. that should help. that did not take as long as i expected.

thanks for the clarification, I appreciate your time.

 

[BeExcellent]

A woman should not need external validation either. For myself? I like it but it is not needed. I like to be appreciated, certainly by my partner, but I do not need that to bolster my self worth. I do see it as a gauge of a relationship however (the level of appreciation given or received).

In fact if someone tries to put me down? I reject that kind of thing right then and there out of my own self esteem and self respect.

Just know that the dynamics necessary to sustain a healthy marriage or LTR over the long term are not discussed in depth a great deal here. There are good contributors in the community who have positive track records around (and some have contributed to your thread), but there is a bias that is jaded in the community due to failed relationships and the bitterness fallout that can accompany disappointment.

Only you can accurately assess your personal situation and apply the things that make sense (as you are doing).

Keep moving forward and leading as a man. Many things will sort themselves out as a natural consequence.

 

[Glassguy]

While I think @BeExcellent gives very solid advice and I rarely go against her on many opinions, I will say this:

Once a woman's intent shifts from you to another man (men) it is due to a total loss of respect.

I have seen the situation several times where the woman lost respect, started "flirting" with other men only to have the husband/boyfriend start taking a firmer approach and then all of a sudden sex becomes relevant again.

But that sex was only to scratch the itch that those women had for another man, not the husband/bf. Its a very short lived bandage that is temporary.

The thing is, when a woman loses total respect for a man, she doesnt find him attractive anymore. I would feel comfortable saying that she cringes being around him in general.

I do agree with @BeExcellent when she says "Many things will sort themselves out as a natural consequence". If I were you, I would keep my foot on the gas in terms of both trying to firm up your frame and being more of a household leader but I would also start planning for what could be (and normally is) the inevitable........which is her short term compliance to you coming to an end. It seems in situations that I have helped guys with in this similar situation, once one of the other men she is flirting with becomes available, or the timing is right, she will cheat.

Women seem to see only what is in front of them. That is why they make decisions based on emotions more so than logic.

When that moment comes where she can take advantage of sleeping with another man comes along (if it hasnt already) her emotions will send her over to a fantasy island where she thinks the new guy is all that and you will be out.

I dont want to seem like a Debbie Downer but you have some serious planning to do and waiting on this woman to come around and stop her BS with the flirting and avoidance of being the wife she used to be is not the best plan.

Hope it all works out

 

[BeExcellent]

The thing is, when a woman loses total respect for a man, she doesn't find him attractive anymore. I would feel comfortable saying that she cringes being around him in general.

This I agree with 100%. To me it is unclear from the content of the thread by the OP to what degree the respect has eroded. He may not know himself honestly. Time will tell. Keep doing as he is doing and think about plan B. Agreed.

 

[RickTheToad]

Personally, actions speak louder than words. She's done. File for divorce. If, after you want to reconsider, you can always do so. However, there is no rewind. She will revert back to her current self after she pretends to be on good behavior and a new outlook on your marriage.

 

[metalwater]

I dont want to seem like a Debbie Downer but you have some serious planning to do and waiting on this woman to come around and stop her BS with the flirting and avoidance of being the wife she used to be is not the best plan.

Hope it all works out

thank you. I get your point. And that your writing is designed to get my attention, and that it is the advice you think is best. It likely is.

I know everyone like me or that brings a thread that sounds like me thinks that there situation is unique.. In my situation there are about 5 different things that make it very unique. I don't tell them as a couple of them would make me/us very identifiable. Obviously connecting this public thread to the real ppl would be a circus..

Where I live in the world it is very possible that I can deal with any guy in an extremely direct way. For my own mental well being I need to be crystal clear I have the right player before I do that. I am just so not yet wise enough to be sure I have the right guy. Any good ideas on how to identify? BTW, this idea isn' really what I am about, but this situation is making changes in me. There is still a chance that I have it all wrong. It would not be the first time that symptoms can match to several different causes.

One of the things right out of the txt books is that we lived a very secluded lifestyle before. Just wasn't much opportunity to get into trouble. So in the new venue (location) she is getting/gotten stirred by others. Moved to a new venue to get the boredom out... and surprise for me is, yes the boredom is out... but how is not what I had in mind.

In the old venue I was the exact example of doing the wrong thing that is described in No More Mr Nice Guy, and all the other books, I think I was guilty of almost every bad habit and behavior that they describe. I probably would be much better off had I found and used that info and stayed in the old venue. but I had no motivation to do so. So angry when I understood.

 

[Glassguy]

Personally, actions speak louder than words. She's done. File for divorce. If, after you want to reconsider, you can always do so. However, there is no rewind. She will revert back to her current self after she pretends to be on good behavior and a new outlook on your marriage.

I agree. It leaves OP in total control. Shed be coming back to such a whoooooole lot of dic to call it off. Then make it real clear that if she ever disrespects you again, sucking dic wont cure the problem the next time as you'll file and follow through.

We only have one life. You're accountable for your own happiness. Anything that doesnt help that happen is only hurting that and I dont have time for such people. The exit door opens quickly and i dont care how long they've been around. I'll show them the door.

 

[RickTheToad]

I agree. It leaves OP in total control. Shed be coming back to such a whoooooole lot of dic to call it off. Then make it real clear that if she ever disrespects you again, sucking dic wont cure the problem the next time as you'll file and follow through.

We only have one life. You're accountable for your own happiness. Anything that doesnt help that happen is only hurting that and I dont have time for such people. The exit door opens quickly and i dont care how long they've been around. I'll show them the door.

AMS... Is that you???