Men have to prove they are worth it to women.

[AttackFormation]

Ok, so what does it mean when a guy invests in a girl, she burns him and he decides that in the future he’s just going to use girls for sex? The girl he treats that way, knowing that he treated other girls better in the past, what should she think of that?

His mind will change if he meets a girl he wants to be with, unless he has a personality disorder (in which case that was always the real problem).

There's also a difference. When this woman in the OP was younger she had sex for its own sake, it wasn't a mistake, while the guy you're describing made a mistake. I could rather compare that to a girl who hooks up once thinking it'll lead to a relationship, and then swears off hooking up when it doesn't. I wouldn't hold that against her.

 

[SeekerOfTheWay]

Did you feel the same way when you were 19?

I was married at 18 (until 36), so I can’t really say.

 

[Epic Days]

I think it’s wrong to treat anyone because of a past partner a certain way. Male or female. This is an animal stimulus response mechanism. It’s quite low on the human evaluation scale.

I never do that. Changing one’s approach and changing one’s operating basis is the result of a man having epiphanies and deprogramming himself.

I don’t sit there in a conversation and analyze all this stuff. It should be natural. Part of a man’s evolution. If he changes the way he thinks, in most cases she won’t even try half of this stuff on this site. She will just be there for me and I for her.

 

[SeekerOfTheWay]

It’s not that I put sex on a pedestal, but I’m not going to waste my precious time on women that don’t find me sexually attractive but yet won’t leave me alone and insist we hangout and act “relationship”. They friend zone me and then start sending all these sexual signals to me but what they don’t realize is I mentally checked out on them when they used the “f” word on me. They become sexually interested in me eventually because I handle the friendzone differently than 99% of guys and they re-think their decision. It’s too late then though, they already labeled me and missed the boat on me. One chance, per lifetime, per girl.

Right, i totally agree with you! I meant i don’t get why women use sex as some sort of reward or prize. I am female by the way, i wasn’t criticizing you, i agree! If i have sex with someone and the relationship doesn’t progress or fizzles, I don’t regret the sex. In fact, I am glad to have had that connection and experience. The only thing that keeps me from being a total sl^t at this point is i am very healthy conscious and wary of STIs. I made it this far without any and would like to keep it that way. Protection doesn’t protect against all STIs. Otherwise i would have way more sex.

 

[Robert28]

Right, i totally agree with you! I meant i don’t get why women use sex as some sort of reward or prize. I am female by the way, i wasn’t criticizing you, i agree! If i have sex with someone and the relationship doesn’t progress or fizzles, I don’t regret the sex. In fact, I am glad to have had that connection and experience. The only thing that keeps me from being a total sl^t at this point is i am very healthy conscious and wary of STIs. I made it this far without any and would like to keep it that way. Protection doesn’t protect against all STIs. Otherwise i would have way more sex.

Women use sex as sort of “reward” to guys they determine worthy. You’re either a friend or you’re having sex with any particular woman. There is no in between. Women want to be in relationships with men they deem sexually attractive, not because they’re nice or whatever, those are just bonuses. I’m speaking for myself but if a woman doesn’t want to have sex with me and friend zoned me, I’m completely 100% turned off on her forever even if she changes her mind down the road. She communicated to me that I wasn’t good enough to sleep with her, which is fine, but I also won’t stick around to remind myself I’m not good enough in her eyes. That’s why I accept friendship and then ghost. No sense in trying to come up with some line or comeback that isn’t going to change the outcome anyways, just ghost them. F their friendship, I don’t want it and they’ll know that when they never hear from me again.

 

[051AV]

Women from Vancouver think they are entitled they are quite snobby thinking their sh*t doesn't stink. Found her facebook page she's not the most attractive thing, did a little googling she's had a child and she's a single mother. There is the big reason for her bullsh*t she spews, got knocked up the guy left because most likely she's a entitled b*tch from hell.

 

[SeekerOfTheWay]

@Robert28

I don’t necessarily it’s who we think is “worthy.” I have never actually heard it phrased that way before. I hope men don’t take it to heart like that and let it effect their view of themselves. I know for me it’s just a matter of whether there is sexual attraction and chemistry there... or not. Mostly that’s determined very quickly. It’s a combination of factors, some out of your and her control and some is just preferences I think. But you’re right that it’s wrong to keep you and other men “on the hook” once we have decided there’s no sexual spark. Doing that is purely for our own ego and the need to feel desired and validation from lots of men. I don’t do that (anymore!) because i got tired of “playing defense “ with men that i just didn’t feel anything for. Secondly i realized it was an immature game and it hurt their self esteem. I have played probs every game and made so many mistakes regarding guys that i am hoping i have learned a lot and have grown. It’s ongoing.

 

[Robert28]

@Robert28

I don’t necessarily it’s who we think is “worthy.” I have never actually heard it phrased that way before. I hope men don’t take it to heart like that and let it effect their view of themselves. I know for me it’s just a matter of whether there is sexual attraction and chemistry there... or not. Mostly that’s determined very quickly. It’s a combination of factors, some out of your and her control and some is just preferences I think. But you’re right that it’s wrong to keep you and other men “on the hook” once we have decided there’s no sexual spark. Doing that is purely for our own ego and the need to feel desired and validation from lots of men. I don’t do that (anymore!) because i got tired of “playing defense “ with men that i just didn’t feel anything for. Secondly i realized it was an immature game and it hurt their self esteem. I have played probs every game and made so many mistakes regarding guys that i am hoping i have learned a lot and have grown. It’s ongoing.

You make great points. My issue is the women that have friend zoned me all of a sudden became sexual towards me after a time of me being in the friend zone that they forced me into. If they wanted to talk sexual and be sexual with me, they should have done it when we were seeing each other, not when I’m in the FZ. My bitterness about the FZ is it’s not that I failed and got myself friend zoned, it’s I want to be left the f alone by the girl. Maybe I’ll come back oneday, maybe I won’t, but don’t “give me space” for 2 or 3 days an expect me to be void of any feelings I had for you. That’s why I say women FORCE the FZ on guys. Just leave us alone after you’ve “f” worded us. If you were so worried about us leaving your life maybe you should have thought about that when we were pursuing you.

 

[AttackFormation]

You make great points. My issue is the women that have friend zoned me all of a sudden became sexual towards me after a time of me being in the friend zone that they forced me into. If they wanted to talk sexual and be sexual with me, they should have done it when we were seeing each other, not when I’m in the FZ. My bitterness about the FZ is it’s not that I failed and got myself friend zoned, it’s I want to be left the f alone by the girl. Maybe I’ll come back oneday, maybe I won’t, but don’t “give me space” for 2 or 3 days an expect me to be void of any feelings I had for you. That’s why I say women FORCE the FZ on guys. Just leave us alone after you’ve “f” worded us. If you were so worried about us leaving your life maybe you should have thought about that when we were pursuing you.

I don't get how you can be so concerned about a so-called "friendzone". Are these girls you have to interact with regularly because of school, job or a hobby? Otherwise how can you just not leave them and move on after they don't want to escalate?

 

[Robert28]

I don't get how you can be so concerned about a so-called "friendzone". Are these girls you have to interact with regularly because of school, job or a hobby? Otherwise how can you just not leave them and move on after they don't want to escalate?

You’d think it would be easy to just move on after they tell you you’re just friends out of the blue. So you go a couple days minding your own business, not bothering them and then you get a text “hey what’s up? Are you mad at me? Do you hate me”. Don’t respond so you get more texts. Then you get Facebook messages, then your friends get messages “is Robert28 ok? He’s not answering my messages and I’m worried about him”. So now they’ve drug your friends into your situation. But yeah, just move on.lol Truth is women DONT WANT US TO MOVE ON. At least not me they don’t. What they want is some quasi relationship that doesn’t have a label, so she just tells everyone and you that you’re just friends. She still wants to go on dates and you pay though, still wants you to text her when you get home, still wants you to initiate texts, basically act like the boyfriend she said you can’t ever be. Screw that. I know women friend zone needy guys or dorky guys or guys that can’t take a hint. I’m none of those, I literally try to leave them alone and I’ll never be their orbiter or constantly confess my undying love to them so they can say “get back in that friend zone mister!”. I play it like a champ, I make THEM do ALL the work. The funny thing is I still have no interest in being friends with them so I just make them feel some rejection like I felt. I’m vindictive in that way. The weird thing is it builds attraction with them cause they’ve never had a guy respond like I do to it.

 

[SoSuave666]

So on that logic, who cares what he thinks. If a man burns a woman for putting out and then she transitions herself and makes the next guy wait for sex, how will future men treat her?

I’m sure most guys don’t want to wait until she is sure he’s all in before having sex with him, and I’m sure most girls don’t want to be used for sex.

Your reply makes no sense. Women and men function differently and have different instincts. You should know this by now.

The woman of this article, will still act accordingly if presented with a true high value male. She will still sleep with him on or before the third date.

I said who cares what she thinks for a reason. It is far more important what the leader of a relationship (or interaction) thinks. In all cases it should be the man. What she thinks is of little importance

 

[Trump]

But you’re right that it’s wrong to keep you and other men “on the hook” once we have decided there’s no sexual spark. Doing that is purely for our own ego and the need to feel desired and validation from lots of men. I don’t do that (anymore!) because i got tired of “playing defense “ with men that i just didn’t feel anything for. Secondly i realized it was an immature game and it hurt their self esteem.

So if a guy liked you and wanted to take you to dinners and trips and buy you gifts but you decided that there was no sexual spark, you would tell him “I don’t want free dinners and gifts and cars and trips from you because there no sexual chemistry?”

 

[Robert28]

Any sort of friendship with a woman that didn’t start out as friends, will only lead to the guy resenting you eventually. I’ve never bought this whole notion that women think the friend zone is harmless and they keep you around because they enjoy your company. All you’re really doing is slowly causing the guy to resent you. Forever. You think your ex hates your guts? No, the guy you friend zoned will come to hate you a lot more.

 

[SeekerOfTheWay]

So if a guy liked you and wanted to take you to dinners and trips and buy you gifts but you decided that there was no sexual spark, you would tell him “I don’t want free dinners and gifts and cars and trips from you because there no sexual chemistry?”

Yes. I don’t take advantage of people, lead them on or use them. As well I make enough money and know how to live within my means so that i can do all that without strings attached . Even if i needed the money, i wouldn’t. Nothing in life is free (that would mean he can control me without my consent). Of course there can be various agreements and arrangements between adults. As long as all parties are on board, I see nothing wrong with it.

One of my plates has LOTS of money. And i still don’t take advantage of him. We have an understanding that works for us. I come from a different perspective. I don’t see relationships (of any kind) a battle to be won or lost. i just want peace, happiness, to learn and fun. I am direct with men.

 

[Solomon]

As a guy I read that and think “boy you could get friend zoned by her easily and end up wasting a couple months of putting in time with her. All wasted.” Not to mention I would feel devalued as she’s making me wait for sex but she didn’t make other guys wait. That tells me I’m not good enough for her even though she thinks she’s doing me and herself a favor. If she told me all this I would be very turned off and probably ghost her.

Totally agree, had a chick tell me this recently and laughed in my head, needless to say she was playing "The game" and we never went out on a date.

Women like this from personal experience tend to be stuck of too many sexual advances or "ran through"

 

[Robert28]

Yes. I don’t take advantage of people, lead them on or use them. As well I make enough money and know how to live within my means so that i can do all that without strings attached . Even if i needed the money, i wouldn’t. Nothing in life is free (that would mean he can control me without my consent). Of course there can be various agreements and arrangements between adults. As long as all parties are on board, I see nothing wrong with it.

One of my plates has LOTS of money. And i still don’t take advantage of him. We have an understanding that works for us. I come from a different perspective. I don’t see relationships (of any kind) a battle to be won or lost. i just want peace, happiness, to learn and fun. I am direct with men.

It’s up to the guy not to let himself be taken advantage of, I agree. My issue is women friend zoning guys without telling them straight up where they stand. Say you’ve been seeing a girl for a few months and you can kiss her and be all affectionate, then all of a sudden you start to see her turn her head, she starts to not hold your hand as long, etc. Next thing you’re in a fight because you’re frustrated about what’s going on, you’re tired of reading her stupid signals and WHAM! she lays the “we are friends, we aren’t dating” line on you. You’re thinking “***** since when? Thanks for letting me know”. Then she guilts you when you say “sorry but I have never known you as a friend, I don’t see you as a friend, I’m not interested in seeing you as a friend”. You’ve also told her this UP FRONT when y’all met so she can’t accuse you of being one of those guys that didn’t make his intentions known up front. All this happened to me and when I said “no to friends”, SHE WOULDNT LEAVE ME ALONE. There’s some seriously evil women out there that want to force what they want on you and you’re supposed to take it and like it. That’s why guys get jaded and run for the hills when women bring up friends in any shape or form. It’s because they had some girl sneak that **** on them and they got burned by it and made a fool of.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

It’s up to the guy not to let himself be taken advantage of, I agree. My issue is women friend zoning guys without telling them straight up where they stand. Say you’ve been seeing a girl for a few months and you can kiss her and be all affectionate, then all of a sudden you start to see her turn her head, she starts to not hold your hand as long, etc. Next thing you’re in a fight because you’re frustrated about what’s going on, you’re tired of reading her stupid signals and WHAM! she lays the “we are friends, we aren’t dating” line on you. You’re thinking “***** since when? Thanks for letting me know”. Then she guilts you when you say “sorry but I have never known you as a friend, I don’t see you as a friend, I’m not interested in seeing you as a friend”. You’ve also told her this UP FRONT when y’all met so she can’t accuse you of being one of those guys that didn’t make his intentions known up front. All this happened to me and when I said “no to friends”, SHE WOULDNT LEAVE ME ALONE. There’s some seriously evil women out there that want to force what they want on you and you’re supposed to take it and like it. That’s why guys get jaded and run for the hills when women bring up friends in any shape or form. It’s because they had some girl sneak that **** on them and they got burned by it and made a fool of.

So what if you get marginalized puzzy or head but you gotta go on a date?

 

[AJ84]

[

So if a guy liked you and wanted to take you to dinners and trips and buy you gifts but you decided that there was no sexual spark, you would tell him “I don’t want free dinners and gifts and cars and trips from you because there no sexual chemistry?”

I personally would not let some guy buy me stuff or take me to dinner if I knew I wasn’t going to date him. Did that once and it blew up on my face:

I had a bad experience once where the guy (who seemed nice before we met in person) took me to an expensive restaurant on the first date and during the dinner I wasn’t feeling any chemistry because he was so pretentious. I offered to pay half and he declined so I offered again and he declined again and seemed insulted that I wanted to pay half. He was very superficial and name dropped people he knew in the entertainment business, rude to the waiter, etc and not a good first impression for me). It was like the guy I was texting with and talking to on the phone was a completely different guy then the one I was having dinner with. He told he had done some cocaine prior to meeting up and that may have explained his behaviour and him going to the bathroom 3 times. It sealed the deal for me.

When he wanted to take me for drinks at a posh night club after, I said I had a nice time but I don’t think there’s chemistry. He actually got mad at me and mentioned the dinner he just paid for (though I offered to pay half and he refused).

We were in a location where there not many people around and he was raising his voice and clearly high, so it was actually kind of scary.

All other first dates after that were, cafes, walks in the part or some cheap activity like cycling or a picnic.

 

[Robert28]

Her mistake is petty romance. Her "boundaries" are actually a blueprint for the slickest players out there. These women are actually the easiest and get burned the most, hence her stance. Like a Gazelle that gets picked apart by a pack of hyenas. In an effort to find romance, most women get burned left and right. This irony plays out in most women's lives. It's only until they give up - that's right, actually give up and just focus on themselves and what makes them happy without needing anything from anyone that a genuine guy actually shows up.

Every woman secretly knows this. But they can't help it. They are addicted to petty romance. The whole drama. They love being lied to and told pretty things. They want romance THEIR WAY and not the natural way. The natural way follows the law of abundance. When you are happy and self-fulfilled, you attract more of that experience. When you can finally live without petty romance, genuine romance finds you.

And then she will friendzone the genuine romance saying “I’m not looking for a relationship right now but let’s hangout twice a week for months and talk all the time anyways.”

 

[RangerMIke]

The burden of performance will always be with men. Most women feel this way... this one just admits it.

The way you counter this is not to worship women. Go ahead and be the best man you can, not to get chicks, but because that is the best way for a man to go through life and really the only thing that brings you long term happiness. The positive side-effect to chicks will find you.

If she thinks you value sex with her more than your own well being... it will always be dangled if front of you like a carrot... or used as a stick when you aren't doing what she wants. You have to have the attitude that if she is using sex as a tool, that you will just go elsewhere.

I had a friend of mine in college who had a girlfriend and they were actually a pretty good couple... one day after a party, he did something... I honestly don't remember what it was.... But she told him, "No sex for you tonight!" He looked at her and said "Well maybe not with you." and walked out the door. Two weeks later, she was back and later they got married and have been married for 30 years.

A couple of reasons this worked for him. 1. He was an awesome guy, very ambitious... actually today he's worth a butt load of money and runs an investment firm. He did and still does take care of his body and health. 2. He was ABSOLUTELY serious... if he didn't get what he wanted, he was willing to walk away and MEAN IT. So don't think any dude can do this... she has to value you and be fearful of losing you, and she has to believe she can't do any better than you. But even if she doesn't give a fvck if she loses you this is the right way to be... it's much better to leave sooner rather than later, then to live a life where a women is using her body as a weapon against you.