What exacly does 'frame' mean?

[RangerMIke]

What the rest of you guys r talking about is mindset. The right kind of mindset.

How you think.

That's just one component of frame.

Yep mindset is a component of 'frame', or more apt... a side-effect of by-product of 'frame'. If you have a strong frame; you will have a strong mindset... provided a man doesn't start overthinking sh!t. The key is getting as much or more than you give.

One chick I'm seeing now loved doing yard sales. I fvcking hate that sh!t... digging though other people's cr@p to me is torture. So when she wants to drag me on one of these things... I make her do things for me first. Believe it or not to all reading this... is women actually prefer it this way.

 

[Spaz]

Yep mindset is a component of 'frame', or more apt... a side-effect of by-product of 'frame'. If you have a strong frame; you will have a strong mindset... provided a man doesn't start overthinking sh!t. The key is getting as much or more than you give.

What is more apt or key towards the right frame, would be talking about 'how to do things' with the right mindset (how you think) that takes into account a man's inherent personality.

One can have the same mindset but when implemented will yield different results simply because its not tailored specifically to one's passivity or dominant traits.

When it comes to strong frame, many here in Sosuave have this skewed idea that mindset = frame.

So many, especially the intellectuals here will prolly pick up a fvckton of books, have a memorization party and think they're now got strong frame but in actuality ends up over compensating and coming off as fake because it's not fully in-line with their core values and how they do things in real life.

 

[zekko]

When it comes to strong frame, many here in Sosuave have this skewed idea that mindset = frame.

Even worse is the idea that many have that being alpha = a mindset.
That's assuming results before they are attained. As you note, a mindset will yield different results as adopted by different personalities.
A mindset is always useful, but a mindset alone does not make you alpha. You still have to have the tools.
Makes a pretty lie though. Sold to the same types who follow PUA gurus.

 

[Spaz]

Even worse is the idea that many have that being alpha = a mindset.
That's assuming results before they are attained. As you note, a mindset will yield different results as adopted by different personalities.
A mindset is always useful, but a mindset alone does not make you alpha. You still have to have the tools.
Makes a pretty lie though. Sold to the same types who follow PUA gurus.

PUA are mostly or perhaps exclusively from the expressive quadrant.

It's their ability to mold themselves assuming other quadrant traits - the dominants and their superior emotional quotient that's lures women but it's not sustainable.

In the end they'll come off as fakes.

Most, if not all of their followers are those from the passives - the intellectuals and other expressives.

 

[Brooks]

When it comes to strong frame, many here in Sosuave have this skewed idea that mindset = frame.

But doesn’t it start within the mind?
How does one actually BUILD a new frame. Childhood aside.

 

[Spaz]

But doesn’t it start within the mind?
How does one actually BUILD a new frame. Childhood aside.

Acquire more knowledge and then exposure or experiencing it by taking action.

You can learn the whole DJ Bible but if u aren't experiencing it or being effective then it's useless.

 

[Spaz]

If you break frame you can become impotent.

Now this is something new.

But you may be onto something stormy, stress and being in induced depression by another can physically be harmful.

 

[Epic Days]

Stormy is right when I think back on things. The more dominating I am the more times I can go.
Sometimes insatiable. Interesting.

 

[Trump]

When a woman is "inside your 'frame'", she is the one compromising.... and you as a man should reward her for this.

How does a man "reward her"?

 

[RangerMIke]

How does a man "reward her"?

Spend time with her doing what she wants.

 

[Epic Days]

Now this is something new.

But you may be onto something stormy, stress and being in induced depression by another can physically be harmful.

Operating outside masculinity definitely would be a source of stress.
Other stresses: being under competition anxiety due to not being fully masculine. Pointing out things you need to do. Poison dripping a non masculine man. Harping. Small invalidations in conversations. Hot and cold manipulations. Complaining to you as it causes problem solving computations in a man and he wants to please or want the best for her, again, not masculine.
I could come up with more but it becomes redundant. You are in the feminine imperative and are a tool to be used.

A woman is a manipulation machine. If there’s any type of girl in you, you’re going under stress. She’s just trying to secure her survival which is why she secretly and sometimes openly, despises a feminized man. A man who has to have her and own her out of his programmed desire to be pair bonded for life.

 

[Spaz]

Operating outside masculinity definitely would be a source of stress.
Other stresses: being under competition anxiety due to not being fully masculine. Pointing out things you need to do. Poison dripping a non masculine man. Harping. Small invalidations in conversations. Hot and cold manipulations. Complaining to you as it causes problem solving computations in a man and he wants to please or want the best for her, again, not masculine.
I could come up with more but it becomes redundant. You are in the feminine imperative and are a tool to be used.

A woman is a manipulation machine. If there’s any type of girl in you, you’re going under stress. She’s just trying to secure her survival which is why she secretly and sometimes openly, despises a feminized man. A man who has to have her and own her out of his programmed desire to be pair bonded for life.

AND

As soon as you feel like you need her, it's over. What most guys don't realize is that the natural state is that of a dominant king/conqueror. You have to feel like she needs you, lol. Everything you described from invalidations to manipulations = her getting invalidated. This is the power you need to have to actually enjoy women. You need total dominance. Otherwise, it's not enjoyable...or even natural feeling.

Your relationship with women should never ever even get anywhere close to small invalidations. She has to always be validating your very presence.

Exactly why I've always been opposed to men using Tinder.

I've even went so far as to poke fun at people using it at various times on this very forum, parading around like a beauty contestant for women to choose from.

1st you hire a professional photographer.

Then you make urself pretty by going for facials, with multiple beauty products.

Later you need to max ur physicality.

All for women.

When a man does this, he loses his masculinity, bit by bit until he can no longer maximise anything else, that's when he starts to think of something fancy just to please women.

In the end a man will just be like a high priced handbag, useful until the next model comes out.

He isn't capable to bring women's femininity to fore because he lacks masculinity.

 

[Epic Days]

In the end a man will just be like a high priced handbag, useful until the next model comes out.

I love this. Hahaha
An accessory or a new shade of fingernail polish.

 

[Spaz]

I love this. Hahaha
An accessory or a new shade of fingernail polish.

I doubt that they even know it.

They might think they are the champion, great seducers but in fact they are being feminized to be poor copies of women.

 

[matteo-d]

"Frame" usually refers to the assumptions and presuppositions linked to a situation.

1) Frames are the assumptions linked to a specific situation
If people are meeting in a business negotiation. The frame being Business negotiation implies several assumptions:
- Stay formal with the guys on the other side of the negotiation
- Let your boss speaks first if you're not the boss
- The end goal of this interaction is to come to an agreement that make both parts financially winning
- ...

It doesn't mean that all business negotiations will happen like that but those are implied guidlines that are more or less universal in the current day and age (at least in the western society)

2) Now, how does it apply to seduction ?
In the context of "a guy meeting a girl", the implied rules are more vague. 100 years ago the rules were kind of more precise, but today, with the women having more rights to express themselves, the guidelines are much more vague.
Which means that the one who holds the strongest frame will impose his own guidelines as to how the interaction should happen.

Usually a standard girl's frame is: I am the woman, he is chasing me, which means her assumptions will be like:
- he has to make the first move
- I'm only going to have sex if he is worthy enough
- My best friend has to validate him before I go
- ...

If you buy into that, then you're ****ed, and you stay the typical "nice guy" who doesn't control anything

3) Set your own frame
Therefore, you have to choose your own frame, what do you want her to think about you ? What should be the rules of that interaction in your opinion ? A very common one is to set the frame that YOU ARE THE PRIZE (so basically reversing the roles). Have you ever watched a CEO being interviewed by a journalist about his success ? Does the CEO is shrugging shoulders and speaking with a low voice in those circumstances ? Of course not, because the implied rules of that interaction are:
- I am the most important person here
- This guy is asking me questions because I'm more important than him

Whereas if you watch a prisoner asking the judge for a reduction of his prison sentence, then you can imagine the implied rules of that interaction (between the judge and the prisoner) would be completely different. Which means the body language of the prisoner, his voice tonality, the words he uses will be completely different.

But back to seduction, if you are the prize and she has to win you, it means that the implied guidelines of the interaction will be something like:
- I'm only going to have sex if she has something special about her
- She has to convince me why I should prefer her rather than another girl
- If she is boring or insulting, I won't lose any time with her

4) So how do install your own frame ?
The problem is that a lot of guys try to "act as if" they were the prize or anything else, but don't believe it inside, as it has been outlined by some people above in the thread.
Inside they still think they are a piece of **** and hope the girl is going to show them some attention.
Since human interactions are mostly based on non verbal signals, and non verbal signals are an unconscious expression of what you think and feel, it means that what YOU BELIEVE about YOURSELF is actually what is going to set the frame, much more than what you say with words.

Remember the example of the CEO in the interview ? Imagine that the whole interview is just a scam and the journalists are actually crooks just trying to gather information about the company... Would that change the behavior and powerful presence of the CEO ? Of course not, because HE is still convinced that HE IS the most important person in the room. Therefore his body language will still exudes confidence and dominance.

Therefore, your own beliefs are going to shape the interaction, when you truly believe that she has to conquer you (and that you know why), then the words you say, the way you look at her, the way you react to her, everything is gonna change, and she's gonna change the way she interacts too, she will stop considering you as "again another one trying to pick me up". Instead she will text the next day to her best friend "I met a very interesting man yesterday" lol

I could elaborate much more about how to actually change your beliefs but that post is gonna take forever ^^'
Hope you have your answer though.

To give you an example, let's look at that clip from american pie, where Jim tries to explain his frame to stifler, but stifler has a much stronger frame and refuses Jim's
Of course it is just a humoristic example but that shows you the idea

 

[Spaz]

"Frame" usually refers to the assumptions and presuppositions linked to a situation.

1) Frames are the assumptions linked to a specific situation
If people are meeting in a business negotiation. The frame being Business negotiation implies several assumptions:
- Stay formal with the guys on the other side of the negotiation
- Let your boss speaks first if you're not the boss
- The end goal of this interaction is to come to an agreement that make both parts financially winning
- ...

It doesn't mean that all business negotiations will happen like that but those are implied guidlines that are more or less universal in the current day and age (at least in the western society)

2) Now, how does it apply to seduction ?
In the context of "a guy meeting a girl", the implied rules are more vague. 100 years ago the rules were kind of more precise, but today, with the women having more rights to express themselves, the guidelines are much more vague.
Which means that the one who holds the strongest frame will impose his own guidelines as to how the interaction should happen.

Usually a standard girl's frame is: I am the woman, he is chasing me, which means her assumptions will be like:
- he has to make the first move
- I'm only going to have sex if he is worthy enough
- My best friend has to validate him before I go
- ...

If you buy into that, then you're ****ed, and you stay the typical "nice guy" who doesn't control anything

3) Set your own frame
Therefore, you have to choose your own frame, what do you want her to think about you ? What should be the rules of that interaction in your opinion ? A very common one is to set the frame that YOU ARE THE PRIZE (so basically reversing the roles). Have you ever watched a CEO being interviewed by a journalist about his success ? Does the CEO is shrugging shoulders and speaking with a low voice in those circumstances ? Of course not, because the implied rules of that interaction are:
- I am the most important person here
- This guy is asking me questions because I'm more important than him

Whereas if you watch a prisoner asking the judge for a reduction of his prison sentence, then you can imagine the implied rules of that interaction (between the judge and the prisoner) would be completely different. Which means the body language of the prisoner, his voice tonality, the words he uses will be completely different.

But back to seduction, if you are the prize and she has to win you, it means that the implied guidelines of the interaction will be something like:
- I'm only going to have sex if she has something special about her
- She has to convince me why I should prefer her rather than another girl
- If she is boring or insulting, I won't lose any time with her

4) So how do install your own frame ?
The problem is that a lot of guys try to "act as if" they were the prize or anything else, but don't believe it inside, as it has been outlined by some people above in the thread.
Inside they still think they are a piece of **** and hope the girl is going to show them some attention.
Since human interactions are mostly based on non verbal signals, and non verbal signals are an unconscious expression of what you think and feel, it means that what YOU BELIEVE about YOURSELF is actually what is going to set the frame, much more than what you say with words.

Remember the example of the CEO in the interview ? Imagine that the whole interview is just a scam and the journalists are actually crooks just trying to gather information about the company... Would that change the behavior and powerful presence of the CEO ? Of course not, because HE is still convinced that HE IS the most important person in the room. Therefore his body language will still exudes confidence and dominance.

Therefore, your own beliefs are going to shape the interaction, when you truly believe that she has to conquer you (and that you know why), then the words you say, the way you look at her, the way you react to her, everything is gonna change, and she's gonna change the way she interacts too, she will stop considering you as "again another one trying to pick me up". Instead she will text the next day to her best friend "I met a very interesting man yesterday" lol

I could elaborate much more about how to actually change your beliefs but that post is gonna take forever ^^'
Hope you have your answer though.

To give you an example, let's look at that clip from american pie, where Jim tries to explain his frame to stifler, but stifler has a much stronger frame and refuses Jim's
Of course it is just a humoristic example but that shows you the idea

Frame is you in all situations.

But how you frame urself in different situations is equally important too so that it is in line with ur total frame.

For example, if u r supplicating in ur relationship to women then it will spill over into other areas of ur life.

 

[Dash Riprock]

You can't change ur childhood.

That's why core values can't be change, it's always present.

Agreed. But the interesting thing about human psychology is that people will often break their values to meet their needs.

Example 1: A good man (or woman, either way) might have strong values and believe in marriage, monogamy, trust, and honesty. But, 6 years into the marriage, his wife gains 40#, tries to boss him around, is disrespectful, and withholds sex. So the man gets a mistress and cheats. He had key needs for passion, connection, respect, and sex and broke his values to meet these needs.

Example 2: A man has strong values on honesty and integrity, but loses his job. He gets an offer to do some work and the business owner will pay him under the table in cash, tax free. He takes the offer. Or, he pulls a Walter White in Breaking Bad to support his family. He broke his values to meet his needs.

People do it all the time.

 

[Spaz]

Agreed. But the interesting thing about human psychology is that people will often break their values to meet their needs.

Example 1: A good man (or woman, either way) might have strong values and believe in marriage, monogamy, trust, and honesty. But, 6 years into the marriage, his wife gains 40#, tries to boss him around, is disrespectful, and withholds sex. So the man gets a mistress and cheats. He had key needs for passion, connection, respect, and sex and broke his values to meet these needs.

Example 2: A man has strong values on honesty and integrity, but loses his job. He gets an offer to do some work and the business owner will pay him under the table in cash, tax free. He takes the offer. Or, he pulls a Walter White in Breaking Bad to support his family. He broke his values to meet his needs.

People do it all the time.

The values doesn't go away, it's always there to remind us what's right and wrong despite breaking it.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

If frame is 'who you are and want you want' then it is difficult to distinguish it from egoism. I think a more nuanced interpretation is needed.

Ego being that shell of protection and maximization of power making its way in the world.

In this respect, it would makes sense to talk of anti-frame, more of a natural flow state as opposed to a 'frame' with its connotations of something artificially and self-consciously constructed.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

As long as it's a question about power, and framed in term of 'frame' it's all about ego.

The self is more than the self-conscious cogito/ ego. A real re-lat-ionship, would involve the return of something that exists in 'latitude' toward yourself. There's a bit of etymology for you.

In this sense, this site negates the idea of a relationship in any meaningful sense. A 'relationship' must always be utilitarian, serve your own needs, be a means to an end, and facilitate the ego. Long gone is the ideal of erotic love. Of course, this was first eroded with the middle-class bourgeois notion of marriage as essentially a rational contract between two parties [blue pill]. Red pill rightly rejects this, but instead of going back to the way of Eros, it degenerates further into digging down to finding the biological realities and determinations beneath. A hopeless hermenuetics of suspicion.