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[Brooks]

Okay let’s refrain from put downs. I’m very familiar with how my situation is perceived and is. It’s caused me much anguish.

Wait she’s been texting her ex the entire time? I thought you were in a bad state before, but dude come on. You’ve got to dump this woman.

Yea.
She was upfront about it from the start. Saying she wasn’t girlfriend material. Thought we’d only be short term. Still trying to work things out emotionally within her about her previous relationship, seems like she can’t let go of some aspects.

Doesn’t want to get back with him at all, but clearly it still has a hold on her. It’s been really difficult. There was a moment early on when she told me on the fifth or so date that she wasn’t over him yet. I should have walked away then. I almost did; told her to contact me in 3-4 months when she was in a better place but then she didn’t want to let it go. So we continued on only to have it still around. He lives out of the country so it’s not like she can just see him today and get closure. So there’s a whole romanticizing going on of the past. Something they lost.

It’s not so easy to just slice it and end it with her. What we have is substantial. I know from the outside it sounds bad. But we have a lot of good and clearly she is invested in what we have if she wants to work at it and keep seeing one another. I’m not just some filler.

I just don’t know how to navigate this while allowing her to heal that slwouns and find the closure she needs.
Or if the only true way to do it is to end it. And tell her to reach out once she has put it to bed..

In a month we’re going on a 3 week trip together. Kind of near where he lives. I wonder if I should cancel the trip and tell her to do what she needs to do with him and reach out somewhere down the line If she feels the want to maybe pick us back up with a clean slate. To put everything to bed for once and for all.
And in the result of that, I live my own life and she lives hers. No bad blood between us. Jut understanding.
I just don’t want to end the relationship which is very rich and has a ton of potential.

In the text I read on her phone she was assuming we were going to break up this weekend, and so they had even touched on the idea of her re routing her personal flight to see him and then they figure out what’s what.

I asked her if she had talked to him recently and she said she had. Told me everything they talked about and was super open which was surprising to be honest. And she said during the conversation she felt apathy even though she had said all of what she said. So this is where my confusion comes in because why be so open about it with me if she does feel something for him, but also.. why keep going back and having talks like that? Is it just for attention, knowing she can have him. Because the way they ended was I believe HIM givibg up in the relationship and not wanting to move countries for her; she wasn’t worth it in his eyes.

 

[Epic Days]

The thread with her ex went back and forth a whole bunch. Was saying what they had before was special and crap. They’ve been in communication since the start of our relationship though.. she tells him about me and sends him messages like ‘seeing your text is difficult, before I’m about to get in to bed with my boyfriend’.

I don’t get it.

This is you trying to reconcile your fairy tale world with the real world where people live and die. There's nothing wrong with you.
A woman is a very simplistic creature. She is living an animal life.

 

[Epic Days]

Okay let’s refrain from put downs. I’m very familiar with how my situation is perceived and is. It’s caused me much anguish.


Yea.
She was upfront about it from the start. Saying she wasn’t girlfriend material. Thought we’d only be short term. Still trying to work things out emotionally within her about her previous relationship, seems like she can’t let go of some aspects.

Doesn’t want to get back with him at all, but clearly it still has a hold on her. It’s been really difficult. There was a moment early on when she told me on the fifth or so date that she wasn’t over him yet. I should have walked away then. I almost did; told her to contact me in 3-4 months when she was in a better place but then she didn’t want to let it go. So we continued on only to have it still around. He lives out of the country so it’s not like she can just see him today and get closure. So there’s a whole romanticizing going on of the past. Something they lost.

It’s not so easy to just slice it and end it with her. What we have is substantial. I know from the outside it sounds bad. But we have a lot of good and clearly she is invested in what we have if she wants to work at it and keep seeing one another. I’m not just some filler.

I just don’t know how to navigate this while allowing her to heal that slwouns and find the closure she needs.
Or if the only true way to do it is to end it. And tell her to reach out once she has put it to bed..

In a month we’re going on a 3 week trip together. Kind of near where he lives. I wonder if I should cancel the trip and tell her to do what she needs to do with him and reach out somewhere down the line If she feels the want to maybe pick us back up with a clean slate. To put everything to bed for once and for all.
And in the result of that, I live my own life and she lives hers. No bad blood between us. Jut understanding.
I just don’t want to end the relationship which is very rich and has a ton of potential.

In the text I read on her phone she was assuming we were going to break up this weekend, and so they had even touched on the idea of her re routing her personal flight to see him and then they figure out what’s what.

I asked her if she had talked to him recently and she said she had. Told me everything they talked about and was super open which was surprising to be honest. And she said during the conversation she felt apathy even though she had said all of what she said. So this is where my confusion comes in because why be so open about it with me if she does feel something for him, but also.. why keep going back and having talks like that? Is it just for attention, knowing she can have him. Because the way they ended was I believe HIM givibg up in the relationship and not wanting to move countries for her; she wasn’t worth it in his eyes.

This is all manipulation to get your emotions going from high to low and back and forth. Every single word out of her mouth is a smoke screen. A manipulation. This holds you in stasis and makes you drawn to her. She was never yours and never will be. Most likely, just from my experience, you will continue this and go further down the rabbit hole in an effort to somehow solve this or come to a definitive judgement. All your male gifts are being used against you.

 

[Brooks]

This is all manipulation to get your emotions going from high to low and back and forth. Every single word out of her mouth is a smoke screen. A manipulation. This holds you in stasis and makes you drawn to her. She was never yours and never will be. Most likely, just from my experience, you will continue this and go further down the rabbit hole in an effort to somehow solve this or come to a definitive judgement. All your male gifts are being used against you.

Can you put that a little more simple?

Why is she bringing me up and down? Manipulating? Smoke screening?

What is it she truly wants?

 

[Brooks]

This is you trying to reconcile your fairy tale world with the real world where people live and die. There's nothing wrong with you.
A woman is a very simplistic creature. She is living an animal life.

What do you mean by animal life? Women are simplistic??

 

[SoSuave666]

She’s open with you cuz she dgaf what you think. She’s going to bang his brains out one way or another. Whether you know about it or not is of no consequence to her. It’s open disrespect and here you are allowing it, even encouraging it.

 

[Epic Days]

Can you put that a little more simple?

Why is she bringing me up and down? Manipulating? Smoke screening?

What is it she truly wants?

Sure. She wants you in her circle because she will always need a back up. Always. This cannot be reasoned with or bargained with. Go read my new thread, "Women live an animal existence". It's in the Mature man section.

In her defense, a significant amount of her manipulation is below her awareness level. She operates on the reality and premise that men are expendable and are there to feed her pleasure gluttony. She has been trained this from birth. Her biology has been assisted while yours has been suppressed. There's a pretty good chance that your mother raised you most, if not all, the time.

Up and down or in some of these circles, its called push/pull, is a mental manipulation strategy. Men are especially susceptible to its power ONLY when they are conditioned and brainwashed by society and mothers to think within the Feminine Imperative.

You are still pretty green at this stuff and you have a ways to go before you can even consider a girlfriend.

 

[Brooks]

She’s open with you cuz she dgaf what you think. She’s going to bang his brains out one way or another. Whether you know about it or not is of no consequence to her. It’s open disrespect and here you are allowing it, even encouraging it.

If she had no respect or anything, why would she continue to be with me, want to go on our trip, pay for dates, still be effortful towards us?

Sure. She wants you in her circle because she will always need a back up. Always.

But she’s not treating me like a back up? Or do you mean she’s using him for a back up, someone to still keep her a float even if we don’t workout?

Up and down or in some of these circles, its called push/pull, is a mental manipulation strategy. Men are especially susceptible to its power ONLY when they are conditioned and brainwashed by society and mothers to think within the Feminine Imperative.

So is this type of person impossible to have a healthy relationship with? How do I combat it and make it go away?

 

[Epic Days]

What do you mean by animal life? Women are simplistic??

Oh absolutely they are simplistic. You will need to understand the concept called solipsism. It is a biological mechanism that evolved to facilitate her survival so that she can reproduce and have babies.
Everything, including the things they say and do is directly related to and serves her. You are not even part of the equation. You're just another expendable man.

Now this is not a fixed condition. She would hang out with me and be a completely different woman. Not just me, there are some men on here where she would be a docile little kitten showing up for her sex and validation. You are not that man. Not yet. Until you can walk away from her with no expectation of ever sleeping with her again she will never respect you as a man or more importantly, a human being.
The best thing you can do is walk away and when she tries to lure you back in for sex...you reject her like a street slvt.

 

[Epic Days]

So is this type of person impossible to have a healthy relationship with? How do I combat it and make it go away?

Its not her. It's YOU.

I would respond to the rest of your post but you are too delusional. You don't understand that one man (men) is for resources and the other is for breeding. Which one do you think you are? If your the sex guy then snap your fingers. All fixed. Sex on demand.

 

[Epic Days]

Here, go read this post by @stormrider

https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...he-current-climate.261101/page-7#post-2654226

 

[Brooks]

Oh absolutely they are simplistic. You will need to understand the concept called solipsism. It is a biological mechanism that evolved to facilitate her survival so that she can reproduce and have babies.
Everything, including the things they say and do is directly related to and serves her. You are not even part of the equation. You're just another expendable man.

So the best thing I can do is do what’s best for me so it challenges her own self developing world?

You are not that man. Not yet. Until you can walk away from her with no expectation of ever sleeping with her again she will never respect you as a man or more importantly, a human being.
The best thing you can do is walk away and when she tries to lure you back in for sex...you reject her like a street slvt.

I want to become that man. So whether I’m currently delusional or not. I need to learn this.
This is actually interesting; this weekend we had sex once. Sunday morning. After we got back from a full day outside (she had left a bag at my place) we got back inside and she was like “I’m not even going to come fully in” (eluding to she knew I was going to try and seduce her)
I said “haha get your butt in here” and she laughed and said “no I have to go.. so much studying”. I said “I’ll give you something to study” then picked her up and she wrapped her legs around me. I put her on my bed and started kissing her. She kept saying “I’m not going to have sex with you, I have to go” about two times. So I quickly disengaged and said “okay” and then crawled off the bed like no rejection happened.

Now, usually I would get a bit butt hurt and ask a bunch of questions or show I was wounded I didn’t get sex. But instead I just didn’t care. She was COMPLETELY thrown by this shift in my behaviour (I switched because of my OP and other things inmneeding to work on). She asked if I wasn’t going to pursue her anymore or why I switched off so fast. I said “because you said you didn’t want to so I’m going to stop everytime you say that rather than keep trying”. And the interesting part was after that happened she became soft and easier to talk to. More feminine. Almost concerned like “damn I wish he kept trying..”

I then said “I’ll give you a ride to the terminal” and so we left my place like nothing happened. I was super cool and detached. She brought it up in the car twice and I was still super cool about it. And she mentioned if I liked the sex or if I was going to stop being as sexual as I usually am. To which I just said, “no our sex is great, and I don’t plan on pursuing less”
We pull up to the terminal and she was ALL over me. We made out for like 7 minutes solid and she said “damn! Why did I leave your place so soon!”

So this moment speaks towards what you’re saying. I guess I’ve been acting too chunky in some regards before. Rather than showing her I don’t NEED what she has. But before this whole thread I NEEDED her validation and sex. She can sense that and so she holds ALL the power and control and exploits it for her own self.

 

[Brooks]

Its not her. It's YOU.

I would respond to the rest of your post but you are too delusional. You don't understand that one man (men) is for resources and the other is for breeding. Which one do you think you are? If your the sex guy then snap your fingers. All fixed. Sex on demand.

I can agree the problem is mostly ME.

I’m not trying to be delusional. I’m trying to discover some truths here that I’ve been disregarding. I appreciate all your advice here. But don’t dismiss me and call me delusional. Sometimes we are unable to see our own faulty thinking

And re: sex... we have a lot!! Of sex. Most weekends it’s about 6-8 times. And three during the weekday hangout. So I mean, I’m not just acting like some provider.

The thing with me I believe is I just need some SLIGHT recalibration. And we’re coming on some good stuff here

 

[Epic Days]

And re: sex... we have a lot!! Of sex. Most weekends it’s about 6-8 times. And three during the weekday hangout. So I mean, I’m not just acting like some provider.

I am not trying to be overly harsh. Believe when when I tell you that I was, at one time, so delusional that it nearly ruined my life. I wouldn’t listen to myself.

If you are getting lots of sex with her then you are good to go. What is the issue? She’s never going to stop sorting and developing other men.

You are thinking that somehow, some way, you can change her nature. If you just tried a little harder, did the right thing, said the right thing, that somehow it will just come together. That one thing. Been there.

You and I are at odds here because you are trying to create something with a woman that has had so many diks that if she stopped having sex and you didn’t, it will take 10 - 20 years for you to catch up.
Not including parking lot BJs and secret hand jobs.

My interest is you and I don’t give squat about the woman. There is no happy ending here. I will not help you save this and keep the woman. She’s not worthy.

 

[Brooks]

If you are getting lots of sex with her then you are good to go. What is the issue? She’s never going to stop sorting and developing other men.

Because it’s a relationship. Emotional, spiritual, physical, bond. It’s not just about the sex.
Sex is an indication of her feelings, yes.
Her actions are generally all good. But her words vassilate and that’s what I’m trying to subside.

You are thinking that somehow, some way, you can change her nature. If you just tried a little harder, did the right thing, said the right thing, that somehow it will just come together. That one thing. Been there.

I’m not trying to change her nature. I’m trying to just get her to focus purely on us, like I am. No ex in the background. Just to love fully in to us. But she keeps this ugly ass ex in the background.

You and I are at odds here because you are trying to create something with a woman that has had so many diks that if she stopped having sex and you didn’t, it will take 10 - 20 years for you to catch up.
Not including parking lot BJs and secret hand jobs.

Haha she actually has only had 5 partners including me. 4 years no sex and lost her virginity when she was 20. So she’s not a slvt in the least.

My interest is you and I don’t give squat about the woman. There is no happy ending here. I will not help you save this and keep the woman. She’s not worthy.

I don’t know fully if she’s worthy or not either. But I appreciate you’re helping me. Wether her and I go forward or not, I still need to understand this, and that’s what this is about. So We can still use my current situation as feedback. Because this has been the hardest relationship I’ve had in most aspects.. so if I can dial this in.. I think it would be good learning.


Thanks for sharing that post from @stormrider it was spot on

 

[Epic Days]

Because it’s a relationship. Emotional, spiritual, physical, bond. It’s not just about the sex.
Sex is an indication of her feelings, yes.
Her actions are generally all good. But her words vassilate and that’s what I’m trying to subside.

Lets tackle this very first premise. Where did you learn this?

Firstly, women are incapable of loving you in a way that you want. This is biologically impossible. There's a good section on this in "The Rational Male". She will NEVER love you like your mother did. Not now, not in a million Sundays. Don't believe it? Then explain to me how a woman can get over a relationship in absolutely no time at all.

Sex is NOT an indicator of her feelings. Married men get "sex" around once a month, if they are lucky. There are endless studies done on this. Isn't he her one and only?

She is vassilating because it keeps you hanging on and it works very well. After all, here you are lamenting because a woman won't definitively validate you and submit to this amazing love that only you are feeling. If she was feeling what you are feeling she would be all over you like a new 5,000.00 suit.

Look Brooks, you are trying to fit a world of learning and understanding into a forum thread. It's rather selfish of you to dig help out of men who have done a lot of work on themselves to save a single woman who will never love ANY man at the level you seek. If I was a woman I would NEVER commit to you and that would be a favor.

Sex is a TOOL. It is her only true weapon. It is the only thing she has. Sure she gets pleasure, but she can get pleasure form most anywhere. Your ego is a blazing fire.

Read:
The Rational Male by Rollo Tomassi
Then read "The manipulated Man" by Esther Vilar

Until then you are a man headed to the guillotine. Take the sex and work it until its gone.

 

[Brooks]

She is vassilating because it keeps you hanging on and it works very well. After all, here you are lamenting because a woman won't definitively validate you and submit to this amazing love that only you are feeling. If she was feeling what you are feeling she would be all over you like a new 5,000.00 suit.

Okay so what is it that’s missing that she’s not doing that. In real simple terms here

 

[Epic Days]

Okay so what is it that’s missing that she’s not doing that. In real simple terms here

She is incapable of doing that with you. Its impossible. You are asking the sea to be the sky and the sky to be the sea. Whats missing is that she doesn't love you. Only a man would be dumb enough to equate sex, in any amount, to love. Especially as she is utterly incapable of love at that level with a man that isn't her son. Hopefully there wouldn't be sex in that case. You are applying the nature of men to her. You are thinking that she thinks and operates like you do. It's not that you are wrong, its that you have never been right when it comes to women.

There are very real reasons for this but it's like I am trying to explain Thermal Dynamics to a person at the level of grade school when it comes to women. There is no insult in that in any way. Everyone has to start a book at page one to get the whole story. I have 15 years at this. Read the books and stop being lazy about it. There is not a single man on here, regardless of experience, that can bring about what you want to happen. Unless of course he can stop the waves from hitting the beach also.

 

[Brooks]

She is incapable of doing that with you. Its impossible. You are asking the sea to be the sky and the sky to be the sea. Whats missing is that she doesn't love you. Only a man would be dumb enough to equate sex, in any amount, to love.

Miscommunication. I didn’t equate sex to levels of love. I meant sex is an indicator of feelings or a reflection of the relationship to a degree.

Maybe I have been expecting her to fee in the ways which I do. To give in the manner which I have. And that’s been my downfall. And in doing so I’ve missed what actually creates a love and deep desire for a woman. But I’m trying to get there and understand it as second nature.

You’re right. She hasn’t said I love you to me yet. But I think the potential is there. As soon as I have the ability to show her I an walk away without second thought. Show her that strength of emotion.

It's not that you are wrong, its that you have never been right when it comes to women.

And so I’m learning to try and get right. And I’m seeing that it’s all about just being a leader of your own life and the woman will follow in suit. Rather than the man looking toward her and giving towardsher and expecting the same. I’ve been giving with reciprocity in the back of my mind. Rather than with strength and abundance.

Read the books and stop being lazy about it. There is not a single man on here, regardless of experience, that can bring about what you want to happen. Unless of course he can stop the waves from hitting the beach also.

I’m not lazy by any means and I will read the books. But fromthe men here, I’m just asking further perspective becauseyour past experiences can clear up some haze for me. Set me on a better trajectory.

 

[Epic Days]

No. You have countered every recommendation given to you because you are desperate. That damn pvssy ain't made of gold. You want what you want. Just like a woman and you won't take ideas and assertions that are counter to that. Just like a woman.

Not just no, but fuk no.