Went to a speed dating event last night and these are the results

[SoSuave666]

In your eyes you clearly believe you were the best man there. By your logic, if the women did not pick you than they would also have picked no man below you, as well. You teally think 9 of the women picked none of the men??


If you were just half as amazing as you think you are, you would have still gotten 5-7 numbers.

Perhaps... how you ACTUALLY come across to women, including your vibe, is NOT attractive in the way you believe it to be???

Try logic there.

Maybe there is a reason you are getting the feedback you are from those 9 women and us here.

Maybe you are NOT as perfect as you think??

Maybe your physical characteristics are actually not enough to compensate for your off putting vibe?

You seem to go on and on as if your vibe is irrelevant. The feedback you have received here is, from the photo you presented, creepy, feminine, etc.

Not trying to be brutal...trying to be real so you wake the f up and consider that YOU may be the reason for 1 of 9 last night. Same for zero to no responses on tinder or OLD etc

You are the common denominator!!

Completely agree. I’ve seen this dudes pictures and he’s not nearly as attractive as he thinks. He doesn’t take advice on how to improve either.

All his posts are negative. This is the vibe he gives off.

It’s no shock to me he had no matches

 

[AJ84]

Many women see ****iness for what it is, compensating for something lacking. It’s not attractive.

 

[AJ84]

I think there is a difference between having value, offering value, and taking value. The OP's mindset is "I have value and therefore these women should validate me." This is a "taking value" vibe that turns women off.

When you have authentic value, you become selfless. Why do you need validation? You validate others instead. You make THEM feel good. In a sense, you become the source of validation. This is the most attractive guy. He has so much, he gives it away.

A high value guy who acts like he needs validation from others offsets his own value. By taking value from people, you are expressing that you have none.

On the other hand, a LOW VALUE guy with tight game can act "value offering" and paint himself as high value.

Value - and how it is manipulated and transferred is the reason why there are so many anomalies in the game. Women can sense it. And they gravitate towards it. Being the physical embodiment of value (being good looking) is enough in most cases. But a good looking guy can act like a value taker and ruin his own value.

Nobody wants to validate the good looking guy. Everyone assumes he doesn't need it. People want validation FROM HIM.

So as a good looking dude, the proper mindset to have is "I am a value offerer. Take it or leave it. I have plenty of it."

But what a lot of good looking guys with bad game do is they go out with the mindset of "I am a good looking guy. Now give me value so that I feel validated in my belief that I am a good looking guy." It's too much "me me me." If you were truly that high value, you wouldn't need so much just to maintain your ego.

Coming from an abundance mentality, you don't need anything, but you have a lot to offer.

Now of course, it is also possible to be good looking and live in a vacuum where you have no access to women, no social life, and no abundance. These guys would have a hard time having an abundance mentality no matter how good looking they are.

People always tell you to work on your wealth and physical fitness. But they don't tell you that you also need a social life where you have a lot of access to women on a consistent basis. Without this, you will act WEIRD and miscalibrated. Your vibe will be off and women will sense it.

It's like being an Alien from a different planet coming down to earth and trying to figure out what women are attracted to. Sosuave is just a guide manual for space aliens. You need to actually live amongst women to internalize what works and what doesn't.

So many of these posts are written by dudes with absolutely zero social life that includes attractive women. They read sh1t like "Be tall and fit" and think to themselves "Okay I think I've got it. And if I still can't get laid as a tall and fit guy, there must be something wrong with women!"

No. It's not that deep. You need to surround yourself with women. There's no way around it. And once you are around enough women and start to feel them out, you will realize how desperate, needy, weird, and miscalibrated you've been this entire time.

The reason why so many posters sound like incels is because having a social life isn't preached enough. Their only interactions with women are through dating channels and there is a lack of organic interactions on a daily basis.

Your explanation of value and validation is real food for thought and 100% applicable to women who act the same way. Like the hot chick who thinks all she has to do is be hot and she deserves value. A value taker sucking validation in a self absorbed entitled way. Never looked at it that way but really makes a lot of sense.

 

[guru1000]

I think there is a difference between having value, offering value, and taking value. The OP's mindset is "I have value and therefore these women should validate me." This is a "taking value" vibe that turns women off.

When you have authentic value, you become selfless. Why do you need validation? You validate others instead. You make THEM feel good. In a sense, you become the source of validation. This is the most attractive guy. He has so much, he gives it away.

A high value guy who acts like he needs validation from others offsets his own value. By taking value from people, you are expressing that you have none.

On the other hand, a LOW VALUE guy with tight game can act "value offering" and paint himself as high value.

Value - and how it is manipulated and transferred is the reason why there are so many anomalies in the game. Women can sense it. And they gravitate towards it. Being the physical embodiment of value (being good looking) is enough in most cases. But a good looking guy can act like a value taker and ruin his own value.

Nobody wants to validate the good looking guy. Everyone assumes he doesn't need it. People want validation FROM HIM.

So as a good looking dude, the proper mindset to have is "I am a value offerer. Take it or leave it. I have plenty of it."

It boils down to this. I refer to this as "giving egoless love."

Storm, you realize this is a very spiritual notion which you have applied to game successfully--which only a handful will be able to see or comprehend. Congrats for getting to this level of understanding.

 

[zekko]

But one day I realized that charm is when you can genuinely and authentically take the focus away from yourself. It is even more impressive if you are high value and good looking and have every reason to be egotistical.

Too much PUA material wants to put the focus on yourself, and on being selfish. That's missing the boat IMO. You have to take care of yourself in order to give to others, but you still have to have that generosity of spirit instead of making it all me, me, me.

 

[sangheilios]

Sorry for the late replies, I had a few things I had to do this afternoon.

Can you keep the conversation in an area that makes them comfortable?

I was asking them deeper questions about things they had mentioned. For example, one woman talked about a career change she had made working in law enforcement so I asked her what it was that inspired her to do that.

When built guys dress to show off their muscles it really gives off a player vibe that deters girls who are trying to avoid getting used.

The average girl is trying to avoid getting used by a man.

Maybe wear looser shirts and don’t show it off as much. Leaves something to the imagination and also is a very nice surprise when the clothes come off anyway I’m digressing but consider how your attire may be giving off a player vibe.

I get that, but why should I intentionally down play myself like that? That's like telling a hot girl with big boobs or a nice ass to not wear tight and revealing clothing because it intimidates men lol.

You see, I used to think this way too. That I could pretend to be engaging. That I can pretend that I find them attractive. But women see right through it. They know when you are not attracted to them. Even I, a vet, can get scoped out for low IL by some of these women.

That's why I say to change your intent. As if you are no longer "looking," then you can genuinely enjoy their company--as opposed to a contrived intent. Unfortunately, because of your lack of sexual history, you will need to start here to build momentum to a natural intent of engagement.

For example, let's say they weren't attractive to you but could make a great friend. Your language and body mannerisms would have aligned accordingly with that intent.

The very presumption that you made in the first post:


already demonstrates that you were sizing up the guys and then sizing up the women. This "sizing up" does not align with a guy just going out with the intent to JUST have a good time. There was a deeper motive a/k/a intent here which likely reflected in aversion as they "just didn't size up to you"--or perhaps, even worse, " I don't find you attractive but please find me attractive!"

I didn't intentionally go there with a plan of doing that but I did in fact check out the other people that were there, which I feel is natural for anyone. What you mentioned on here are actually really solid points that I could definitely see being a factor.

This.

Ever wonder why ugly chicks that super-like you on Tinder app dissappear so quickly? Because they understand it was mistake and because you are above their level.

It's woman self-control mechanism - most of them had to be there to settle and find you too risky.

There's also factor X - this one average in looks guy that outplayed you all with his experience to such extent that you looked just average.

It could be also your height to some extent - 6'4 is too much to be very sexy. Alpha-phockerz are mostly around 6 - 6'1 feets tall.

LOL, Tom Brady and a host of other attractive celebrities, athletes, etc. are all around my height. I've heard of someone mentioning my height is an issue at 6'4", especially when I'm proportionately built and have a nice body lol.

The OP could wear a lumber-jack outfit or something like that. Has a sort of Adam Driver look to him.

That's funny you mention that because I've had a few people say that, I also get Keanu Reeves as well lol.

 

[corrector]

He doesnt need to bathe in puzzy to get some inner work done here.

Really? What inner work does he need to do exactly then?

 

[sangheilios]

Exactly what I thought. You are socially inept or turn them off in person. Stop making excuses and figure it out. If I had to take a guess its because you come off as a full blown narcissist who can do no wrong. And thats just on a forum posting...in person you are probably 20x worse.

You realize that I have a pretty big and solid group of guy friends and tons of male acquaintances lol. These women are just insecure.

 

[sangheilios]

There is such a thing as being out if their league and them knowing it. These women who are 6s know what guys who are 8s and 9s are going to do to them......pump and dumps.

Facts lol

 

[corrector]

Yes, and he’s playin this forum in exactly the same way…

Why does he talk about using escorts if he's the same as BigDave17. That's not BigDave's style. Even trolls have to have standards.

 

[corrector]

Yes the first half of the equation is taking care of yourself. The other half of the equation is raising others to your level. This is the real alpha male.

You have done this? How has this worked for you?

 

[sangheilios]

I think there is a difference between having value, offering value, and taking value. The OP's mindset is "I have value and therefore these women should validate me." This is a "taking value" vibe that turns women off.

When you have authentic value, you become selfless. Why do you need validation? You validate others instead. You make THEM feel good. In a sense, you become the source of validation. This is the most attractive guy. He has so much, he gives it away.

A high value guy who acts like he needs validation from others offsets his own value. By taking value from people, you are expressing that you have none.

On the other hand, a LOW VALUE guy with tight game can act "value offering" and paint himself as high value.

Value - and how it is manipulated and transferred is the reason why there are so many anomalies in the game. Women can sense it. And they gravitate towards it. Being the physical embodiment of value (being good looking) is enough in most cases. But a good looking guy can act like a value taker and ruin his own value.

Nobody wants to validate the good looking guy. Everyone assumes he doesn't need it. People want validation FROM HIM.

So as a good looking dude, the proper mindset to have is "I am a value offerer. Take it or leave it. I have plenty of it."

But what a lot of good looking guys with bad game do is they go out with the mindset of "I am a good looking guy. Now give me value so that I feel validated in my belief that I am a good looking guy." It's too much "me me me." If you were truly that high value, you wouldn't need so much just to maintain your ego.

Coming from an abundance mentality, you don't need anything, but you have a lot to offer.

Now of course, it is also possible to be good looking and live in a vacuum where you have no access to women, no social life, and no abundance. These guys would have a hard time having an abundance mentality no matter how good looking they were.

People always tell you to work on your wealth and physical fitness. But they don't tell you that you also need a social life where you have a lot of access to women on a consistent basis. Without this, you will act WEIRD and miscalibrated. Your vibe would be off and women will sense it.

It's like being an Alien from a different planet coming down to earth and trying to figure out what women are attracted to. Sosuave is just a guide manual for space aliens. You need to actually live amongst women to internalize what works and what doesn't.

So many of these posts are written by dudes with absolutely zero social life that includes attractive women. They read sh1t like "Be tall and fit" and think to themselves "Okay I think I've got it. And if I still can't get laid as a tall and fit guy, there must be something wrong with women!"

No. It's not that deep. You need to surround yourself with women. There's no way around it. And once you are around enough women and start to feel them out, you will realize how desperate, needy, weird, and miscalibrated you've been this entire time.

The reason why so many posters sound like incels is because having a social life isn't preached enough. Their only interactions with women are through dating channels and there is a lack of organic interactions on a daily basis.

Interesting post, and I will admit that while I do have a social life, as in having friends and all that, absolutely no part of it includes women at all, let alone those that are attractive. That's always how I have felt with women, I'm a tall, fit an attractive guy who is respectable, educated and all that but yet nothing worked. Granted, I don't think many men are actually in this boat, as very few guys are actually tall/fit/attractive and also chronically single and dateless, as it isn't normal or typical for men like that to struggle with women.

My only interactions with women until relatively recently in my life were with those on OLD sites. I honestly would become extremely confused on there, as none of the women were even average but yet I was getting no responses from them.....it just never made sense to me. I naturally assumed that if these women weren't into a guy that was 6'4", in shape, attractive, college educated and sober that there was something wrong with them and/or they were just insanely picky.....which I do honestly feel is partially true lol.

Also, I think when women meet me in real life they can't figure it out, they see an attractive guy but feel something is off so they bail. I've had women, very attractive ones at that, approach me, initiate conversations, ask me out, etc. but time after time they would always ghost, reject me, etc. I naturally assumed that they were just playing with me and using me for attention, but women don't go through all of that just to reject that same guy later on.

 

[lamath]

Really? What inner work does he need to do exactly then?

How is your social game, make friend easy?


When i see a women good looking or not and that her body language is telling me that she thinks she is all that and she is all about herself.
Even if she is attractive i do not want.
This might be one of your problem, depending on your demeanor.

 

[corrector]

Do a post history search on the OP. He can't really be bigdave17 because he's been posting here since last year and has been quite consistent in what he is saying or claiming about himself. Why would both these aliases be posting at the same time if they are the same people?

Maybe there is something about their souls that are similar, which is why they are both getting similar feedback results from women.

 

[sangheilios]

Do a post history search on the OP. He can't really be bigdave17 because he's been posting here since last year and has been quite consistent in what he is saying or claiming about himself. Why would both these aliases be posting at the same time if they are the same people?

Maybe there is something about their souls that are similar, which is why they are both getting similar feedback results from women.

I'm not bigdave17 lol, I'm not even Armenian lol.

 

[sangheilios]

When you don't have organic interactions with women consistently, they can tell. Even if your calibration is off by .01%, it tells them a lot about you.

For example, valuing a phone number is the cringiest thing in the world. It can turn a 10/10 guy into a 1. In her mind, she cannot believe she is that important. So imagine how she would feel if you value her number?

Another example is talking to a 7 but treating her like a 10 and turning her off. If you are not used to talking to 7's on a consistent basis, the 7 WILL look like a 10. Your eyes will play tricks on you.

There's a million other things that can make you seem "weird" and "off" if you are not constantly living amongst women.

Over-valuing them, under-valuing them (too much c0cky funny), being to eager, being too easy, not being easy enough, etc, etc. Every situation is different. Sometimes you have to move forward, sometimes you have to move back. You can't just blindly take a technique you saw online and apply it to everything.

But all it takes is like 1 month of interacting with women daily and you are cured through the process of osmosis.

No website, guru, dating manual, or seduction techniques can replace real world calibration.

You would seem like a genius to the rest of us just through osmosis and proximity to women alone.

That's the fatal flaw of seduction communities. In an effort to understand women, we forget to tell guys to be around them. And guys throwing away real world experience and trusting online gurus. It's comical.

And this one takes the cake: Some of us have real world experience but we are told we have no idea what we are talking about because what we say does not align with the online seduction community.

The way you are wording this makes sense to me now and I feel is the actual issue.

As I've mentioned, I've had very attractive and hot women initiate with me and ask me out but every single time it always fell flat. Granted, every single situation was different, the women were different, etc.

I had a light skinned black girl at my gym initiate with me, easily a 9/10 and she has over 5k followers on instagram, which I found about out later. Anyway, she used to check me out all the time but she semi initiated when I held the door open for her, she smiles, says hi, etc. I later end up approaching her, she has a huge smile on her face, we talk for a few minutes but I end up running out of things to say and it got awkward kind of quick. She looked down and away, as if she was disappointed and lost all interest, so I walked away at a loss.If I had played that differently it clearly would have worked in my favor.

I have a few other fairly recent stories that played out like this, where really hot/attractive women actually asked me out but later ghosted and stopped talking to me out of nowhere.

I have a 8-9/10 hot fit white girl at my gym who goes there with her bf all the time and she's tried talking to me at the grocery store next door when he isn't around, though I don't encourage that. I would show you pictures of these women but I'm not going to do that out of concern for their privacy, which I'm sure you understand.

This was from a while ago, but I was on a date with a woman and she was having a really good time, asking me tons of questions about myself. We were sitting down next to each other on a bench when were chatting, she was touching me a few times on the leg and arm. Anyway, I put my hand on the inside of her knee/thigh and she didn't like that at all, afterwards it totally changed the manner of which she interacted with me. Now, I had no intention of raping or hurting her, as it was just a gesture to show her that I wanted her and was attracted to her, but she obviously didn't perceive it to be that way.

My issue doesn't have to do with attractiveness but I think what you are mentioning on here.

I do want you and others to understand though that I am actually a normal person, meaning I'm not going to flat earth meetings, performing satanic rituals at my house, etc. I do in fact have a lot of friends and have a life, though as I mentioned I rarely interact with women.

 

[sangheilios]

How is your social game, make friend easy?


When i see a women good looking or not and that her body language is telling me that she thinks she is all that and she is all about herself.
Even if she is attractive i do not want.
This might be one of your problem, depending on your demeanor.

Not sure if this post is directed towards me, but I can genuinely converse with most people fairly easily, which wasn't the case for me when I was younger. I have a good group of guys friends and a lot of acquaintances, but as I mentioned to another poster on here they are all male, with little to no social interaction with those of the opposite sex.

 

[sangheilios]

I've actually had similar experiences as well. I was getting ghosted on a lot because I didn't act like a stud. My personality did not match my value. I was incongruent. The reason why I wasn't acting like a stud was because I had forgotten my SMV value. Your SMV value can be undermined if you have no access to women. You start to think you are just like those 6's in the clubs who have to get rejected 15 times before hitting pay dirt. That's the game you are used to.

Then somehow I lucked out and found myself in a situation where I was constantly around hot women. I was mind blown by what happened. They all treated me like they needed my validation. They were competing for my attention. In a sense, they "fixed" my low self esteem. In an all-else-equals environment like a social circle, a guy who is a 8 is an 8. But at a club, he can be undermined. Or maybe he gets so many tests and women play so many games that he forgets. Or online, ugly women ignore him because they have so many options so he thinks he is less than his actual SMV value. Then he starts acting weird and incongruent.

That's why you need to place yourself in a neutralized environment. Learn how to act and carry yourself in this environment. Use this environment as your frame of reference.

When I went back to the clubs after being "fixed," I no longer responded to women's games. I knew my worth. Even if I did something that made her uncomfortable, I wouldn't blame myself. I would blame her. My attitude would be "B!TCH you GAVE me a sign! I am not retarded. I am surrounded my hot chicks. My game is a 10. You gave me a false sign you attention wh0re." I have a frame of reference so I have the right to accuse women of giving off false signs and acting inauthentic. My experience tells me I am not in the wrong.

If I had no frame of reference I would think it's all my fault. I would put every failure on myself. And it would ruin my self esteem. The only thing that can protect you from losing your own sense of self worth is being in social environments that aren't completely skewered to elevate women and de-elevate men (night clubs, OLD, etc).

This is actually how humans were meant to live. In clustered communities. As a nomad, you better have extreme confidence. Even a guy like me loses confidence if I don't interact with women daily and realize how much they value me.

What you are writing about here is literally an exact description of me lol, so as you mentioned you obviously have been where I am and can relate.

Every single time something went wrong with a woman I would always blame myself for it, and mind you I'm aware that some of those failed experiences were partially my fault. Your comment about SMV makes sense as well, I've posted on here numerous times about how I could have all these great qualities that I bring to the table and yet still get no results. It would literally screw with my confidence and make me feel as if I wasn't good enough for any of these women.

I actually had another poster on here say something similar, that I might be confusing women in a sense. He said that they see me as a tall, fit and attractive guy and expect me to be this ultra confident, alpha type guy.....but then when they interact with me they see that I'm more introverted, a bit held back and reserved, etc. To them it's confusing and something does not align correctly in their mind, so they bail.

I actually can and do approach women, so it isn't like every interaction I have with the opposite sex is online or at female centric social environments, like speed dating. Back in the fall I was regularly going out by myself to local clubs on a weekly basis. I was at the point where I could approach small groups of women and actually hold my own, that momentum became broken due to some personal issues that popped up in the latter part of October and into November.

For example: I had approached these 2 young mexican girls that were sitting down together, this was at an outdoor venue here in AZ. Anyway, they were sisters and from out of town visiting relatives. One of them was extremely open with me, actually moved over to sit next to me and was highly engaged in the conversation. I was talking to her for a few minutes and it was going really well but her sister pulled her away, she actually resisted at first but she ended up going along and left. Now, my initial feeling should have been a good one but it actually kind of made me feel as if I had done something wrong, like I was a loser for not being able to follow through with to a victory.

My issue is that am in are more challenging situations like that, and when I'm not very experienced with women at all it's kind of hard to improve or learn anything.....almost comparable to throwing a person who doesn't know how to swim into the deep end of the pool.

 

[marmel75]

You realize that I have a pretty big and solid group of guy friends and tons of male acquaintances lol. These women are just insecure.

Keep telling yourself that...I bet you even told them that between bragging about yourself endlessly to them.

Maybe you can just wish it to be true. Maybe you can click your heels together three times, hold your dog Toto and whisper "There's no place like home" Dorothy.

 

[sangheilios]

Try doing yoga, salsa dancing, rock climbing, wine tasting, a health club, anything that has women that will see you more than once. And just exist. And let your SMV value play itself out. Let it normalize and you will truly see how women view you and your game will develop organically and not forcefully.

I already go to the gym on a regular basis, a significant percentage of the women I have met and approached were in this environment. Outside of that though I don't really frequent any other places where I could be seen regularly and interact with women on a more normal and even playing field.

A while ago I actually did consider joining this salsa dancing club, they hosted social events where they'd have lessons and then open dance floor afterwards.

I can approach women at clubs but it has to be in a certain type of atmosphere and I have to be feeling very confident with myself, when I'm not I generally find it hard to get into that mode of play when I'm going solo.