How Effectionate Are You In A LTR?

[Chi Town]

I'm starting to think some of you guys don't actually date women, women losing attraction for you because you showed affection? Lmaooo

Maybe she lost attraction because of you're personality or you're just boring as fvck ECT ECT

 

[AJ84]

Right near the end, I began to think something is wrong... All her exes treated her like crap, yet she spent 10 or 15 years with them... Here I am treating her well, and I doubt we will make it through another year.

All that being said, we was long distance.. So it was doomed pretty much from the beginning.

Long distance, yeah things are always easier on the surface when it’s long distance because there’s time to miss them and when you see them it’s like new, so the relationship is stuck in a sort of honeymoon phase.
Luckily for you she told you stuff that indicated that she’s not LTR material, for someone who is not a douchbag.
You could of ‘became’ a total pr**k to try to keep her because she basically told you what keeps her around and increases her interest. She gave you the cheat sheet lol. But you said earlier that you don’t want to become someone you are not, and in this case you didn’t become one of her ex’s just to keep her around. That shows integrity. It’s her loss.
Thanks for sharing the story.

 

[soulforge]

This is a key observation. Particularly the second sentence "No sane woman of value is going to choose that." True statement. So what kind of women are men choosing? Not sane women of value.

The problem is two-fold.

One part of the problem is that good women get wifed up young and STAY wifed up...and if they do end up widowed or divorced for some reason they are once again OUT of the dating field relatively quickly because they are higher value and higher quality than the market at large. High SMV men are always looking for the "unicorn" type woman and this is why the term "Unicorn" exists...they are so rare out on the market as to be almost imaginary. So part of the problem is you end up with people on the dating market who aren't that great to begin with, and men get used to dating/marrying lower value/lower self esteem women who are insecure, don't bond well, have jealousy or other serious issues, and just aren't great LTR partner material.

The second part of the problem is that many men have no idea what to do with a good woman should they meet one, and many men have serious flaws and esteem issues and so forth that preclude them from being on the radar screen of the really worthwhile women who do actually exist (but are uncommon). I mean look at how the OP in this thread discusses women. He says "these hoes". That isn't a respectful term. No self-respecting woman is going to stick around with a man who refers to her that way, sorry. So part of it is to look in the mirror and see what kind of woman you as a man attract. I don't mean looks wise people. I mean character wise. If you are picking women with low self esteem or with serious character flaws then you need to take a look in the mirror.

Long distance, yeah things are always easier on the surface when it’s long distance because there’s time to miss them and when you see them it’s like new, so the relationship is stuck in a sort of honeymoon phase.
Luckily for you she told you stuff that indicated that she’s not LTR material, for someone who is not a douchbag.
You could of ‘became’ a total pr**k to try to keep her because she basically told you what keeps her around and increases her interest. She gave you the cheat sheet lol. But you said earlier that you don’t want to become someone you are not, and in this case you didn’t become one of her ex’s just to keep her around. That shows integrity. It’s her loss.
Thanks for sharing the story.

To be honest.. I want to be myself in a relationship.. I'm generally a compassionate guy.. Maybe we choose the wrong type of woman some times.

But its just human nature to try and treat a person well, and in return they will treat us well.

 

[AJ84]

This is a key observation. Particularly the second sentence "No sane woman of value is going to choose that." True statement. So what kind of women are men choosing? Not sane women of value.

The problem is two-fold.

One part of the problem is that good women get wifed up young and STAY wifed up...and if they do end up widowed or divorced for some reason they are once again OUT of the dating field relatively quickly because they are higher value and higher quality than the market at large. High SMV men are always looking for the "unicorn" type woman and this is why the term "Unicorn" exists...they are so rare out on the market as to be almost imaginary. So part of the problem is you end up with people on the dating market who aren't that great to begin with, and men get used to dating/marrying lower value/lower self esteem women who are insecure, don't bond well, have jealousy or other serious issues, and just aren't great LTR partner material.

The second part of the problem is that many men have no idea what to do with a good woman should they meet one, and many men have serious flaws and esteem issues and so forth that preclude them from being on the radar screen of the really worthwhile women who do actually exist (but are uncommon). I mean look at how the OP in this thread discusses women. He says "these hoes". That isn't a respectful term. No self-respecting woman is going to stick around with a man who refers to her that way, sorry. So part of it is to look in the mirror and see what kind of woman you as a man attract. I don't mean looks wise people. I mean character wise. If you are picking women with low self esteem or with serious character flaws then you need to take a look in the mirror.

That’s why I asked where and how they are meeting these women because yeah.
OP gave some background on the ex which gave more insight into her quality or lack
thereof.
Yeah the hoe thing, not good lol. I think though that’s just a bro thing for the site. I hope anyway lol.

 

[AJ84]

To be honest.. I want to be myself in a relationship.. I'm generally a compassionate guy.. Maybe we choose the wrong type of woman some times.

But its just human nature to try and treat a person well, and in return they will treat us well.

I made two really bad choices before. Yep. I think most people have a few regrets in that regard.

 

[soulforge]

That’s why I asked where and how they are meeting these women because yeah.
OP gave some background on the ex which gave more insight into her quality or lack
thereof.
Yeah the hoe thing, not good lol. I think though that’s just a bro thing for the site. I hope anyway lol.

Its a bro thing.. Seriously lol

 

[oldmanofthesea]

When you look back on it do you think there may have been signs that you ignored?

There were some signs sure. Everyone has some issues - and in hindsight it's always easier to look back and say that you should have known it wouldn't work due to the red flags you saw. But in the case of the girls I had relationships with, they had quite a lot of incredible qualities that, in my mind, eclipsed the red flags. For example, one of the girl's red flags were that she was somewhat insecure, she was 11 months out of what she described as an emotionally abusive marriage, she had really bad parents, and she told me she loved me about 4 or 5 weeks into our dating. But her outstanding qualities were the way she treated me, she had an awesome degree and job that paid well and she did well in, had her own condo, excellent and busy social life, and she was an accomplished athlete who stuck to her training regimen. I took her away on a weekend trip and we both had an incredible time. She dumped me over text two weeks later without warning. Best I can tell is she's either so damaged that she felt herself developing serious feelings for me and decided it was time eject, or her jealous best-friend sh*t talked me and she cares more about her friend's opinion than her own. I won't get into the most recent girl....

As for where I'm meeting girls, and what kind of girls I'm attracting. I'm not into gold diggers, club girls, overly materialistic women, etc. I don't meet women in bars, clubs, etc. I'm into the down to earth type who like the outdoors at least enough to go hiking, are educated, are not materialistic, and maybe lean a little more hippie-girl than valley-girl. I met one on OLD, but I quit OLD a year ago. Now I just meet people through cold approach and through the sports I compete in (the latter is how I met the last girl I dated, for 7 months, which ended about two weeks ago).

I've only been divorced 2.5 years so I don't have a mountain of dating experience under my belt so it is certainly possible that these girls were just flukes, and I do think there is a lot of truth to what @BeExcellent said about the good women being taken, or taken quickly once back on the market. I saw a meme once that said, "Dating in your 30's is like rooting around through a garbage dump trying to find the least broken and disgusting thing."

 

[RickTheToad]

You’re right about spoiling them, that’s why it’s called ‘spoiling’ not something more positive like ‘nourishing’.
I don’t think men should spoil women. I’m not suggesting that at all.
But I don’t believe that all women respond to hot and cold treatment in a positive way.
And no, no guy should have to do that to keep her around, that would be annoying and tiring and like Zekko said if you had to do that, she’s clearly not worthy of you.
So again it comes down to picking the wrong kind of women. Like that chick you dated who flew off on holiday when you were in hospital. Do you think how you behaved towards her would make a difference, being nice or being aloof? You decided she wasn’t for you in the end, rather than trying some game strategy to keep her around. Right move.
I know that most of the guys here had crappy experiences and I’m not going to insult by saying no! no! women are great!
But it’s a slippery slope to have generalized views based on negative experiences and have those views actually become a barrier.

Very true. It is a very fine line. I always treat everyone with respect until I no longer receive it. When I do not receive it, I just leave. My case was a bit extraordinary as I was going through so much pain I didn't really have the time or patience to process her actions completely. I did think it was fvcked up when she left and I said later as I didn't have time for that sh!t. She apologized a few times, so I stupidly went back on my rules for her to act or nutty again. I then dropped her for good as I was already done with my kidney stone surgeries and I could think clearer. It's hard to stay in frame and focused when you're in unreal pain and agony. First time should be the last time, and that's on me.

As for SF, well, he fell for her. Understandable. Men are the true romatics these days. Rollo says, once a man falls for a lady, he loses frame because of the red love goggles. This is where the lady second guesses herself and starts playing games in overdrive to test the dude. The dude can give one pass (see above) and if she doesn't correct her behavor, he should had jetted. This works both ways, for men and the ladies. It's not a one sided deal. This is more of a Gen-X and millenial thing than a pre-1980's thing Rollo states.

 

[RickTheToad]

Never.. I treated her well.. but never on a pedestal.. I'm quite reserved with how much love and effection I give out to a woman..

This is why I started this thread.. Maybe we should try being more efficient in order to build stronger bonds with these hoes.. lol

You prob. treated her too well. That was your mistake. Trust me my friend, we've all been there. Just don't make the mistake in taking her back when she circles around. If you really like a lady, you give her one pass, if it's a fvck and toss, no pass. Use your discretion.

 

[RickTheToad]

This is a key observation. Particularly the second sentence "No sane woman of value is going to choose that." True statement. So what kind of women are men choosing? Not sane women of value.

The problem is two-fold.

One part of the problem is that good women get wifed up young and STAY wifed up...and if they do end up widowed or divorced for some reason they are once again OUT of the dating field relatively quickly because they are higher value and higher quality than the market at large. High SMV men are always looking for the "unicorn" type woman and this is why the term "Unicorn" exists...they are so rare out on the market as to be almost imaginary. So part of the problem is you end up with people on the dating market who aren't that great to begin with, and men get used to dating/marrying lower value/lower self esteem women who are insecure, don't bond well, have jealousy or other serious issues, and just aren't great LTR partner material.

The second part of the problem is that many men have no idea what to do with a good woman should they meet one, and many men have serious flaws and esteem issues and so forth that preclude them from being on the radar screen of the really worthwhile women who do actually exist (but are uncommon). I mean look at how the OP in this thread discusses women. He says "these hoes". That isn't a respectful term. No self-respecting woman is going to stick around with a man who refers to her that way, sorry. So part of it is to look in the mirror and see what kind of woman you as a man attract. I don't mean looks wise people. I mean character wise. If you are picking women with low self esteem or with serious character flaws then you need to take a look in the mirror.

Aren't you divorced? Nothing against that, but it's kind of calling like calling the pot calling the kettle black. Ladies from your generation are much different than 1980's and later. Not all, but many are not LTRs, and men have not adjusted. Many ladies have this feminism ideals in their head and that is another reason why they just from penis to penis. They also want the highest and best so if the dude has a bad day, she can and often will next him; and vice-versa. As for him calling them hoes, well, if the shoe fits... If you compare the average number of sexual partners a man has to a lady, I am sure the lady's are 3 - 6 times higher; and that assumes she's not lying (which she usually is).

These are the facts of the current marketplace. You're out of the marketplace because you are in an LTR, but you were also the breadwinner. So, it's a bit different for you; in a positive way. Most ladies are not like you in terms of the financial and business acumen you claim to have.

 

[soulforge]

You prob. treated her too well. That was your mistake. Trust me my friend, we've all been there. Just don't make the mistake in taking her back when she circles around. If you really like a lady, you give her one pass, if it's a fvck and toss, no pass. Use your discretion.

This is the thing man.. I never treated her TOO well.. Just a reasonable balance..

She did most of the initiating contact.. I never bought her expensive gifts.. She showed more affection than I did.

I helped her with her car sometimes or gave her advice on health and fitness.. In my case I believe the long term long distance thing was an issue.. She knew it wouldn't work another 5 years of long distance.. But I didn't see it.

Point taken though.. Treating them too well never works out well for the guy.

 

[marmel75]

I'm thinking you meant Affectionate?

 

[Roober]

I think there is a significant misunderstanding about treating a woman well. The mere statement of saying that women stayed with men the longest that didnt treat them well is the minority or normal women and a majority of bottom dwellers. Any woman, or man, will not stay if their partner is not treating them well AND they respect themself. If there are kids, theres a good chance they will try to make it work more. Consistent avoidance of a partners emotional needs will eventually decay the bond of the relationship as will a smothering.

Generally speaking, the woman will be more affectionate. When a woman is totally into you, she will have a hard time keeping her hands off you. She will want to make sure other women know your taken. But that doesn't mean you dont show her affection either. It's a simple matter of evaluating her mindset and giving her attention.

A couple things I do...

-PDA is generally more playful. Like i will pick her up, smack her a55, give her a big bear hug, or do something stupid. For example, today she sat on a curb, so I put my legs around her shoulders like a piggy back and said "giddyup. I'm tired. Can you carry me?"

-at home, affection will be random. For example, I may walk up behind her and grab her and kiss her on the cheek. If I am working, I will bring my laptop to where she is, and work there, engaging in occasional conversation. I may even just reach over in the car, and put her hair behind her ear.

-compliments are usually sexual, "sexy", or derived around what will happen later.

-I also tell her when she doesn't look good or dress nice, or if she looks tired, or anything else. I believe every relationship should be an open book; you both should be free to say and share anything without judgment.

-And if she seems down, I stop her, and push through until she smiles or does something stupid. I've literally ripped her clothes off before, and said, "you good now", then walked away. To which she then got upset again cause I didnt fvck her.

Affection is literally the time you give to her, directly or indirectly. Many guys have a complete elementary understanding of how to love a woman, or make her feel loved. She doesnt want your advice, she doesnt want your money, she doesnt want PDA, or anything else specific. Women want a man, who can play like a kid, is creative like an artist, and is the father figure they want to fvck.

 

[AJ84]

There were some signs sure. Everyone has some issues - and in hindsight it's always easier to look back and say that you should have known it wouldn't work due to the red flags you saw. But in the case of the girls I had relationships with, they had quite a lot of incredible qualities that, in my mind, eclipsed the red flags. For example, one of the girl's red flags were that she was somewhat insecure, she was 11 months out of what she described as an emotionally abusive marriage, she had really bad parents, and she told me she loved me about 4 or 5 weeks into our dating. But her outstanding qualities were the way she treated me, she had an awesome degree and job that paid well and she did well in, had her own condo, excellent and busy social life, and she was an accomplished athlete who stuck to her training regimen. I took her away on a weekend trip and we both had an incredible time. She dumped me over text two weeks later without warning. Best I can tell is she's either so damaged that she felt herself developing serious feelings for me and decided it was time eject, or her jealous best-friend sh*t talked me and she cares more about her friend's opinion than her own. I won't get into the most recent girl....

As for where I'm meeting girls, and what kind of girls I'm attracting. I'm not into gold diggers, club girls, overly materialistic women, etc. I don't meet women in bars, clubs, etc. I'm into the down to earth type who like the outdoors at least enough to go hiking, are educated, are not materialistic, and maybe lean a little more hippie-girl than valley-girl. I met one on OLD, but I quit OLD a year ago. Now I just meet people through cold approach and through the sports I compete in (the latter is how I met the last girl I dated, for 7 months, which ended about two weeks ago).

I've only been divorced 2.5 years so I don't have a mountain of dating experience under my belt so it is certainly possible that these girls were just flukes, and I do think there is a lot of truth to what @BeExcellent said about the good women being taken, or taken quickly once back on the market. I saw a meme once that said, "Dating in your 30's is like rooting around through a garbage dump trying to find the least broken and disgusting thing."

I’ve seen that analogy lol.
It could be flukes and the one who was abused, may still have some open wounds there and need more time to sort herself out but you can see now how she probably was not a good match for you.
When it’s unexpected, it’s really a blessing yet to be discovered, IMO, because there’s usually some reason why it would not of worked out.
I’m divorced too, now remarried but there were a lot of dating dead ends before meeting someone where there was a mutual connection.
I think it’s definately wise to be a bit reserved in feelings (not closed off,but mindful) until you know what she’s feeling and what you’re feeling, while screening for toxic crap. Most people will have some baggage aka past relationship history but figuring out what’s a deal breaker and what isn’t is part of what makes dating suck lol but it’s necessary for people looking for a relationship.
For casual sex none of that is needed of course.

 

[zekko]

"Dating in your 30's is like rooting around through a garbage dump trying to find the least broken and disgusting thing."

That's why so many guys in their 30s date younger women.

 

[BeExcellent]

Aren't you divorced? Nothing against that, but it's kind of calling like calling the pot calling the kettle black. Ladies from your generation are much different than 1980's and later. Not all, but many are not LTRs, and men have not adjusted. Many ladies have this feminism ideals in their head and that is another reason why they just from penis to penis. They also want the highest and best so if the dude has a bad day, she can and often will next him; and vice-versa. As for him calling them hoes, well, if the shoe fits... If you compare the average number of sexual partners a man has to a lady, I am sure the lady's are 3 - 6 times higher; and that assumes she's not lying (which she usually is).

These are the facts of the current marketplace. You're out of the marketplace because you are in an LTR, but you were also the breadwinner. So, it's a bit different for you; in a positive way. Most ladies are not like you in terms of the financial and business acumen you claim to have.

Yes I'm divorced as is well documented on here. Yes I was the breadwinner (I still support my ex and our kids) and I lost respect for my ex as a man because after we got married and some life stuff happened he abdicated the leadership role in the marriage. Once respect is gone a man is toast. There's just really not a nice way to put it. As he foundered over a lengthy period of time the respect slipped away. I actually stuck around for years out of loyalty and out of duty (and to be honest the sex was always very, very good so that helped ease the respect issue but that only takes things so far) and eventually I was asking myself what kind of example was I setting for my own children to stay in a marriage with a weak, lazy man, and I could only arrive at the maxim that doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is insanity. So I got out (5 years ago today it was final...Happy D-Vorce to me).

And yes I'm in a LTR and have been for more than 18 months. Which is kind of my point. While I'd just as soon not marry again I'm in a LTR and if it ends I'm not going to have issues meeting men. About a year out from my divorce I met a wonderful man and had dated him for 18 months. This man I met 6 months after the other relationship fizzled (due to family circumstances and distance issues)...but the take away for me was that the type of man I want exists and I appeal to that type of man. I certainly agree that many women expect to sit around and be hot and look pretty and get catered to by guys (which I think is idiotic) but you see men going for women like this all around. I'm still in the night scene a good bit (the BF and I are nightlife people no doubt) and I see dating up close and personal all the time because we have plenty of our social circle that are trying to find someone cool, or get over some trainwreck or recover from a bad marriage etc. The carnage is everywhere. And I see women who are unapologetic about having what I consider loose or non-existant morals, I've seen men break up for a weekend so they could fvck someone else with a clear conscious, I've seen it all. I've also seen men get married and turn out very pleased with their spouse and their relationship.

I keep going back to respect. At the end of the day its about respect. Respect is different that affection, but the two are closely related in a relationship. I think if a woman can't accept affection from the man she loves that's a problem. And I think if a man can't be affectionate toward the woman he loves, that's a problem too. And this is assuming the woman is also being affectionate toward the man and that the man is leading.

 

[RickTheToad]

Yes I'm divorced as is well documented on here. Yes I was the breadwinner (I still support my ex and our kids) and I lost respect for my ex as a man because after we got married and some life stuff happened he abdicated the leadership role in the marriage. Once respect is gone a man is toast. There's just really not a nice way to put it. As he foundered over a lengthy period of time the respect slipped away. I actually stuck around for years out of loyalty and out of duty (and to be honest the sex was always very, very good so that helped ease the respect issue but that only takes things so far) and eventually I was asking myself what kind of example was I setting for my own children to stay in a marriage with a weak, lazy man, and I could only arrive at the maxim that doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is insanity. So I got out (5 years ago today it was final...Happy D-Vorce to me).

And yes I'm in a LTR and have been for more than 18 months. Which is kind of my point. While I'd just as soon not marry again I'm in a LTR and if it ends I'm not going to have issues meeting men. About a year out from my divorce I met a wonderful man and had dated him for 18 months. This man I met 6 months after the other relationship fizzled (due to family circumstances and distance issues)...but the take away for me was that the type of man I want exists and I appeal to that type of man. I certainly agree that many women expect to sit around and be hot and look pretty and get catered to by guys (which I think is idiotic) but you see men going for women like this all around. I'm still in the night scene a good bit (the BF and I are nightlife people no doubt) and I see dating up close and personal all the time because we have plenty of our social circle that are trying to find someone cool, or get over some trainwreck or recover from a bad marriage etc. The carnage is everywhere. And I see women who are unapologetic about having what I consider loose or non-existant morals, I've seen men break up for a weekend so they could fvck someone else with a clear conscious, I've seen it all. I've also seen men get married and turn out very pleased with their spouse and their relationship.

I keep going back to respect. At the end of the day its about respect. Respect is different that affection, but the two are closely related in a relationship. I think if a woman can't accept affection from the man she loves that's a problem. And I think if a man can't be affectionate toward the woman he loves, that's a problem too. And this is assuming the woman is also being affectionate toward the man and that the man is leading.

Agreed. Everything goes back to respect. The moment any person, male or female is disrespected, they should just NC and walk away. It's not worth the headache.