How Effectionate Are You In A LTR?

[zekko]

Wore my heart on my sleeve and it got me nowhere. Her interest level dropped and I looked like a begging *****. Completely and utterly beta.

Well, you should never act like a begging dog. That's just maintaining your self respect, you should never lose your self respect over a woman.
I like the comments made by @billtx49 where he said the woman should lead with the affection. Once her feelings are clear than you can be clear with yours.
It sounds like in your case, the woman was never on your interest level.

I'm naturally not a douch guy.. I'm tough when I need to be, but generally quite a compassionate person... However I feel like, sometimes us guys have to adopt the persona of a fukin C@nt in order to keep a woman around lol

I simply don't believe that. Maybe I could have been more successful with women over my life, but I've never had to act like a douche in order to attract or keep a woman. And seriously, if I have to fake who I am in order to get a girl, it just isn't worth it to me anyway.

 

[soulforge]

Well, you should never act like a begging dog. That's just maintaining your self respect, you should never lose your self respect over a woman.
I like the comments made by @billtx49 where he said the woman should lead with the affection. Once her feelings are clear than you can be clear with yours.
It sounds like in your case, the woman was never on your interest level.


I simply don't believe that. Maybe I could have been more successful with women over my life, but I've never had to act like a douche in order to attract or keep a woman. And seriously, if I have to fake who I am in order to get a girl, it just isn't worth it to me anyway.

I agree with you man... I rather just be who I am, than pretend to be something i'm not.

 

[Designer Man]

Well, you should never act like a begging dog. That's just maintaining your self respect, you should never lose your self respect over a woman.
I like the comments made by @billtx49 where he said the woman should lead with the affection. Once her feelings are clear than you can be clear with yours.
It sounds like in your case, the woman was never on your interest level.


I simply don't believe that. Maybe I could have been more successful with women over my life, but I've never had to act like a douche in order to attract or keep a woman. And seriously, if I have to fake who I am in order to get a girl, it just isn't worth it to me anyway.

She pursued me for a while and even use to cry when I would cancel plans. After 12 months of the relationship the dynamics changed and I fell in love with her. She felt the change in my feelings and we swapped roles. Her affection and feelings tapered off once she knew I felt strongly for her.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

I know most guys here are adverse to treating women nicely but why would a woman emotionally invest in a stoic, cold man who treats her indifferently over a man who treats her well? No sane woman of value is going to choose that.

When you say, "most guys here," I'm guessing you mean many of the regulars. But if you look at it by the numbers, so many guys with broken hearts join this forum to try and find out what they have done wrong after treating their GF so nice for so long while she progressively lost interest and ultimately dumped him.

"Why would a woman emotionally invest in a stoic cold man who treats her indifferently?" Only a woman can answer that right? Because most of us guys are scratching our heads. In the three years since my divorce, I have continually had to FORCE myself to shift from the left side of the scale (which represents treating women really kindly, showing your interest, doing nice things for her, and validating her), toward the right side of the scale (which represents being as cold as ice and not treating women for anything other than s*x objects). From the experience I've had in the last three years, I still need to keep moving to the right on that scale. I'm probably hovering around a 6 on that scale now and think an 8 is probably the magic number.

I think back about the women I've actually felt something for and was interested in something long-term with. They all dumped me in the end. They all started out great, I wasn't sure if I was really into them so I treated them fairly aloof. Once I started validating them, doing nice things for them, etc, well that was the beginning of the end. Of the women who I knew quickly that they were just FWB material and not LTRs, I naturally treated them indifferently and didn't really validate them or do anything nice for them, and 95% of them would have done anything I asked of them and were extremely hurt when I ultimately broke things off with them.

Most women want to be validated and invested in (and they truly believe this), but apparently that is not what they need and it is not what they respond positively to. I can't speak for all guys here, but if I get to the point where I'm extremely non-validating and cold, it will be because that is how I've been shaped by the relationships I've had. It 100% will not come from a place of my not "wanting" to be nice.

 

[soulforge]

She pursued me for a while and even use to cry when I would cancel plans. After 12 months of the relationship the dynamics changed and I fell in love with her. She felt the change in my feelings and we swapped roles. Her affection and feelings tapered off once she knew I felt strongly for her.

You fell into her frame... Its sad, but its a harsh reality.. The moment you love and care for her, and show effection.. with many woman, its game over!


Like I stated before.. Every woman I ever met, gave the best years of her life to the man who treated her like shyte... Go figure!

 

[soulforge]

When you say, "most guys here," I'm guessing you mean many of the regulars. But if you look at it by the numbers, so many guys with broken hearts join this forum to try and find out what they have done wrong after treating their GF so nice for so long while she progressively lost interest and ultimately dumped him.

"Why would a woman emotionally invest in a stoic cold man who treats her indifferently?" Only a woman can answer that right? Because most of us guys are scratching our heads. In the three years since my divorce, I have continually had to FORCE myself to shift from the left side of the scale (which represents treating women really kindly, showing your interest, doing nice things for her, and validating her), toward the right side of the scale (which represents being as cold as ice and not treating women for anything other than s*x objects). From the experience I've had in the last three years, I still need to keep moving to the right on that scale. I'm probably hovering around a 6 on that scale now and think an 8 is probably the magic number.

I think back about the women I've actually felt something for and was interested in something long-term with. They all dumped me in the end. They all started out great, I wasn't sure if I was really into them so I treated them fairly aloof. Once I started validating them, doing nice things for them, etc, well that was the beginning of the end. Of the women who I knew quickly that they were just FWB material and not LTRs, I naturally treated them indifferently and didn't really validate them or do anything nice for them, and 95% of them would have done anything I asked of them and were extremely hurt when I ultimately broke things off with them.

Most women want to be validated and invested in (and they truly believe this), but apparently that is not what they need and it is not what they respond positively to. I can't speak for all guys here, but if I get to the point where I'm extremely non-validating and cold, it will be because that is how I've been shaped by the relationships I've had. It 100% will not come from a place of my not "wanting" to be nice.

This 100% correct.. I swear if you do nice chit for the girl or care for her, she will lose interest.

If you treat her like a fuk buddy, stay aloof, let her down from time to time, you will get more mileage out of her.

You will still eventually LEAVE.. but you will get many more years out of her, than the the guy who treats her well will.. Welcome to reality.

 

[AJ84]

When you say, "most guys here," I'm guessing you mean many of the regulars. But if you look at it by the numbers, so many guys with broken hearts join this forum to try and find out what they have done wrong after treating their GF so nice for so long while she progressively lost interest and ultimately dumped him.

"Why would a woman emotionally invest in a stoic cold man who treats her indifferently?" Only a woman can answer that right? Because most of us guys are scratching our heads. In the three years since my divorce, I have continually had to FORCE myself to shift from the left side of the scale (which represents treating women really kindly, showing your interest, doing nice things for her, and validating her), toward the right side of the scale (which represents being as cold as ice and not treating women for anything other than s*x objects). From the experience I've had in the last three years, I still need to keep moving to the right on that scale. I'm probably hovering around a 6 on that scale now and think an 8 is probably the magic number.

I think back about the women I've actually felt something for and was interested in something long-term with. They all dumped me in the end. They all started out great, I wasn't sure if I was really into them so I treated them fairly aloof. Once I started validating them, doing nice things for them, etc, well that was the beginning of the end. Of the women who I knew quickly that they were just FWB material and not LTRs, I naturally treated them indifferently and didn't really validate them or do anything nice for them, and 95% of them would have done anything I asked of them and were extremely hurt when I ultimately broke things off with them.

Most women want to be validated and invested in (and they truly believe this), but apparently that is not what they need and it is not what they respond positively to. I can't speak for all guys here, but if I get to the point where I'm extremely non-validating and cold, it will be because that is how I've been shaped by the relationships I've had. It 100% will not come from a place of my not "wanting" to be nice.

Sucks that you had those experiences, but
many of us (myself included) sometimes ignore red flags and are surprised when things fall apart.
There may of been signs that some of these women did not deserve you but you stuck around and tried harder, when it was doomed to fail anyway.
When you look back on it do you think there may have been signs that you ignored?
I honestly think that choosing the wrong girls is the main reason why decent guys get burned.
Also the main reason why decent girls get burned.
I honestly think that decent, solid, well rounded people respond positively to nice behaviour from a person they are into, rather than do an 180 and ghost.

 

[AJ84]

Guys I don’t know where you are meeting these kind of girls.

It’s sad that those have been your experiences. There are decent women out there. There really are guys I don’t know what to tell you all.

Maybe consider where and how you are meeting these women that crave being treated like crap and flee as soon as you are nice to them? Where do you meet girls and what’s the typical profile of these girls that you date?

 

[soulforge]

Sucks that you had those experiences, but
many of us (myself included) sometimes ignore red flags and are surprised when things fall apart.
There may of been signs that some of these women did not deserve you but you stuck around and tried harder, when it was doomed to fail anyway.
When you look back on it do you think there may have been signs that you ignored?
I honestly think that choosing the wrong girls is the main reason why decent guys get burned.
Also the main reason why decent girls get burned.
I honestly think that decent, solid, well rounded people respond positively to nice behaviour from a person they are into, rather than do an 180 and ghost.[/QUO9TE]


I wish I could agree with you... My current ex was a UNICORN

No red flags, always well behaved.. No chit testing... very obedient.. caring and considerate..what killed it off was me being a decent person towards her.

All her previous relationships, they treated her like GARBAGE and she fukin walked on fire for them.

Some woman only give there all to the guy who makes them feel not worthy, or makes them feel inferior or not wanted... Its like a love spell they fall into.

 

[soulforge]

Guys I don’t know where you are meeting these kind of girls.

It’s sad that those have been your experiences. There are decent women out there. There really are guys I don’t know what to tell you all.

Maybe consider where and how you are meeting these women that crave being treated like crap and flee as soon as you are nice to them? Where do you meet girls and what’s the typical profile of these girls that you date?

I wish I could agree with you... My current ex was a UNICORN

No red flags, always well behaved.. No chit testing... very obedient.. caring and considerate..what killed it off was me being a decent person towards her.

All her previous relationships, they treated her like GARBAGE and she fukin walked on fire for them.

Some woman only give there all to the guy who makes them feel not worthy, or makes them feel inferior or not wanted... Its like a love spell they fall into

 

[RickTheToad]

Guys I don’t know where you are meeting these kind of girls.

It’s sad that those have been your experiences. There are decent women out there. There really are guys I don’t know what to tell you all.

Maybe consider where and how you are meeting these women that crave being treated like crap and flee as soon as you are nice to them? Where do you meet girls and what’s the typical profile of these girls that you date?

Unfortunately, this is the standard operating procedure. Problem is, ladies do not know what the fvck they want until it's gone. Once it's gone, they start all over again trying to find it. They get what they say they want, get bored or feel like the guy is no longer a challenge, then become distant and look for something that peaks their interest. If a dude is aloof and distant, give a little, take a little and repeat, he has a greater chance of keeping her in rotation. The problem with that is that it gets tiring for the man and who wants to keep on playing that game? In the end, neither win. Yes, the guy gets to get a lot of tail, but the lady is eventually just going to have to settle for someone she doesn't want as much as one of her previous lovers. It's just a fact of life. When you spoil anyone, male or female, with too many choices, they will always think the can do better..... That is until they cannot and it's too late to rewind the clock. More often than not, it hits the ladies, not the men.

 

[RickTheToad]

I wish I could agree with you... My current ex was a UNICORN

No red flags, always well behaved.. No chit testing... very obedient.. caring and considerate..what killed it off was me being a decent person towards her.

All her previous relationships, they treated her like GARBAGE and she fukin walked on fire for them.

Some woman only give there all to the guy who makes them feel not worthy, or makes them feel inferior or not wanted... Its like a love spell they fall into

So what happened? You put her on a pedestal and treated her like the greatest thing since water?

 

[AJ84]

I wish I could agree with you... My current ex was a UNICORN

No red flags, always well behaved.. No chit testing... very obedient.. caring and considerate..what killed it off was me being a decent person towards her.

All her previous relationships, they treated her like GARBAGE and she fukin walked on fire for them.

Some woman only give there all to the guy who makes them feel not worthy, or makes them feel inferior or not wanted... Its like a love spell they fall into

If your ex gave her all to men who treated her like garbage, then she’s hardly a unicorn. That’s the sign of someone who has issues.
So in the end a woman who didn’t deserve you.
At what point did you find out that she had a history of falling for douchbags? Before or after she left?

 

[soulforge]

Mostly near the end... Probably the last two months of the relationship, she mentioned that one of her ex's used to go into her purse and steal from her.

My response to her was... You chose well with your partners in the past didn't you.

 

[AJ84]

Unfortunately, this is the standard operating procedure. Problem is, ladies do not know what the fvck they want until it's gone. Once it's gone, they start all over again trying to find it. They get what they say they want, get bored or feel like the guy is no longer a challenge, then become distant and look for something that peaks their interest. If a dude is aloof and distant, give a little, take a little and repeat, he has a greater chance of keeping her in rotation. The problem with that is that it gets tiring for the man and who wants to keep on playing that game? In the end, neither win. Yes, the guy gets to get a lot of tail, but the lady is eventually just going to have to settle for someone she doesn't want as much as one of her previous lovers. It's just a fact of life. When you spoil anyone, male or female, with too many choices, they will always think the can do better..... That is until they cannot and it's too late to rewind the clock. More often than not, it hits the ladies, not the men.

You’re right about spoiling them, that’s why it’s called ‘spoiling’ not something more positive like ‘nourishing’.
I don’t think men should spoil women. I’m not suggesting that at all.
But I don’t believe that all women respond to hot and cold treatment in a positive way.
And no, no guy should have to do that to keep her around, that would be annoying and tiring and like Zekko said if you had to do that, she’s clearly not worthy of you.
So again it comes down to picking the wrong kind of women. Like that chick you dated who flew off on holiday when you were in hospital. Do you think how you behaved towards her would make a difference, being nice or being aloof? You decided she wasn’t for you in the end, rather than trying some game strategy to keep her around. Right move.
I know that most of the guys here had crappy experiences and I’m not going to insult by saying no! no! women are great!
But it’s a slippery slope to have generalized views based on negative experiences and have those views actually become a barrier.

 

[soulforge]

All that being said.. I have never met a woman till this day, who painted the ex in a good light.. Nearly all state the EX was a douche bag

 

[AJ84]

Mostly near the end... Probably the last two months of the relationship, she mentioned that one of her ex's used to go into her purse and steal from her.

My response to her was... You chose well with your partners in the past didn't you.

At what point after you found out that she chooses bad partners did you think maybe she’s not the one for you?

 

[soulforge]

So what happened? You put her on a pedestal and treated her like the greatest thing since water?

Never.. I treated her well.. but never on a pedestal.. I'm quite reserved with how much love and effection I give out to a woman..

This is why I started this thread.. Maybe we should try being more efficient in order to build stronger bonds with these hoes.. lol

 

[soulforge]

At what point after you found out that she chooses bad partners did you think maybe she’s not the one for you?

Right near the end, I began to think something is wrong... All her exes treated her like crap, yet she spent 10 or 15 years with them... Here I am treating her well, and I doubt we will make it through another year.

All that being said, we was long distance.. So it was doomed pretty much from the beginning.

 

[BeExcellent]

why would a woman emotionally invest in a stoic, cold man who treats her indifferently over a man who treats her well? No sane woman of value is going to choose that.

This is a key observation. Particularly the second sentence "No sane woman of value is going to choose that." True statement. So what kind of women are men choosing? Not sane women of value.

The problem is two-fold.

One part of the problem is that good women get wifed up young and STAY wifed up...and if they do end up widowed or divorced for some reason they are once again OUT of the dating field relatively quickly because they are higher value and higher quality than the market at large. High SMV men are always looking for the "unicorn" type woman and this is why the term "Unicorn" exists...they are so rare out on the market as to be almost imaginary. So part of the problem is you end up with people on the dating market who aren't that great to begin with, and men get used to dating/marrying lower value/lower self esteem women who are insecure, don't bond well, have jealousy or other serious issues, and just aren't great LTR partner material.

The second part of the problem is that many men have no idea what to do with a good woman should they meet one, and many men have serious flaws and esteem issues and so forth that preclude them from being on the radar screen of the really worthwhile women who do actually exist (but are uncommon). I mean look at how the OP in this thread discusses women. He says "these hoes". That isn't a respectful term. No self-respecting woman is going to stick around with a man who refers to her that way, sorry. So part of it is to look in the mirror and see what kind of woman you as a man attract. I don't mean looks wise people. I mean character wise. If you are picking women with low self esteem or with serious character flaws then you need to take a look in the mirror.